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The Power of Ravenwing, (English Leaks), + Lord of War



There is still a lot of information coming for the new Dark Angels as we approach the codex's release this weekend. As it always happens, someone gets the dex early, and we get lots of information from various places that reveal what we are going to see.


Ravenwing looks incredibly strong atm, as reports in German still, are saying that Ravenwing will be able to re-roll their jink saves... Crazy. Check out the latest information including the Azrael the latest entry for a Lord of War, and much more.

Another concern from the leaks, is that Deathwing will not be playable as a stand alone army. That would be sad.

Here is a link to the rules in English
via Snoopy on Bolter and Chainsword
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-2015-codex-leaks-pg-62/?p=4097955


Really? Rerolls for Jink!
via Timotheus
RW is just op...reroll all cover rolls for jink.
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-2015-codex-leaks-pg-62/?p=4098165


via a reader on Spikey Bits
http://www.spikeybits.com/2015/06/new-leaks-the-dark-angels-lords-of-war-2.html

Post a Comment

173 Comments

  1. Deathwing get their own Formation, of course you can take them as a stand alone army

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    1. No you really cant, based on what we know. They lost turn 1 ds, and all units in the detatchment must start in Ds reserve. (That means auto loss end of turn 1)

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    2. There seems to still be the option of drop pod dreads turn 1 based on what I've read. But that may be restricted and there still might be a rip to allow full deathwing. But podded dreads might become a necessity, not a bad choice!

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    3. Unbound, that thing many places don't want to play with because of shitty players making asshole-lists.

      Here at Games Workshop, we suck at being consistent. Play Unbound to make up for it!

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    4. Unbound doesnt solve the problem. All the special rules that makes deathwing well....deathwing, is now tied up to detatchment/formation. So playing unbound means you have a bunch of overcosted termies without any of the rules that they pay for...

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    5. Put a unit of termies in a land raider, land raiders don't have deep strike, and thus a unit inside a transport that can't deep strike, won't deep strike.
      You still need to have the deep strike rule in order to deep strike, the detachment doesn't give you that!

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    6. Yes, the detachment doesn't give that, therefore you can't take a land raider, since all units MUST go to deep strike reserve. If it can't deep strike, it can't be in the detachment.

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    7. It doesn't say "All units in this detachment must go into deep strike reserve IF ABLE."

      The "if able" clause would save us all this pure Deathwing grief...

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    8. Well, they must have deep strike in order to be able to do that anyway.
      The BRB says it clearly, as it says that the vehicles that are ded. transports (that can be taken as upgrades and not as units), do not deep strike if the unit they contain have deep strike, and only if their entry has deepstrike.

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    9. Does any one know if the deathwing redemption force formation have similar "must be in deepstrike reserve" rules?

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    10. @Hjarl yes they do, and you choose the turn at witch they all arive

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    11. I guess all the DW purists could play counts as strike force ultra :( ?

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    12. The deathwing redemption force can be played together with other detachments and formations easily.
      The strike force can still be played if you have land raiders to deplay the termies without deepstriking, and/or dreadnoughts that come on turn one with pods.

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    13. If I am not mistaken the "auto lose" rule was changed slightly in 7th. Don't have the rulebook here so cant check, but I'm not 100% sure you do auto lose if you take only Death Wing.

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    14. Sadly you are mistaken. The rule is still there. Page 592 in the digital rulebook. "Sudden death victory"

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    15. The issue is that the formation and detachment both demand that *all* units must be put into Deep Strike reserves. (Note: Not all units with the Deep Strike USR must be put into Deep Strike reserves, all units *period* must be put there)
      Since Land Raiders don't have the Deep Strike USR they can't be put into the appropriate reserves and thus cannot be taken with the Deatchwing formation/detachment.
      In addition, any ven dread's drop pod auto-drops with the rest of the deathwing instead of using the usual Drop Pod Assault USR to drop half of them turn 1.
      So, yeah, pure Deathwing is actually unplayable.

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    16. Well, the auto drop pod with rest of the army at turn 2 is only in the formation.
      On the detachment now, it doesn't have ANY restrictions of taking a Land raider, in the contrary it says that all units in the detachment, may either be deathwing OR dedicated transports, so you can take as many LRs as you want by the rules.
      Other than this one, the fact is that units in transports that can't deep strike, don't deep strike, by the rules again.
      So nothing stops you from filling anything as long as they are either deathwing, or ded. transports that don't or do have deep strike.

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    17. Could you put a few death wings inside fast attack drop pods from a small cad and deep strike them turn one?

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    18. I don't think so, because pods aren't deathwing or ded. transports for termies... Land raiders is the go to choice

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    19. Basically, people are upset about loosing turn 1 DW deep strike. The rest of this just seems like noise.

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    20. @Bob You are probably correct...

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    21. I sense an FAQ incoming within the first week after the codex is out. As a programmer I know how easy it is to get simple number lists and counters wrong. It could be they accidentally left turn one off the list of deepstrike turns— simple mistake, simple solution.

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    22. +1 to Bob. The laughable assertation that people can only make effective lists in Unbound is laughable. There's nothing wrong with Unbound. If someone wants to bring a power house list against your casual lists he can do that with battleforged if anything more effectively. So that is a nonsense reason to not play Unbound.

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    23. Doesn't say deep strike reserve says reserve... Pods with dreads still drop turn one. I'm pretty sure they would not invalidate one of the more popular DA builds you may just have to drop a couple empty homer pods turn 1

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    24. It says Deepstrike reserves and specifically says that Drop Pods ignore their usual rules for deployment, dropping in with the rest of the army on turn 2.

      So yeah, looks like the ubiquitous turn 1 DW alpha strike is a goner, at least until it's possibly FAQ'd. I'd also like to see them FAQ that formation so you can take it on its own without auto-losing.

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    25. Maybe there's a rule for some of the Deathwing Terminator entries that allows some to DS turn one or two, like the last codex (I'm 90% the units had that rule)

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    26. I think it was something like "Choose half of the units, those units choose to deep strike on turn one or two, the rest by regular reserves"

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    27. All Deathwing could DS on Turn 1 or 2 last edition. Now they can only DS on Turns 2, 3 and 4. More flexibility, sure, but no alpha-strike potential and there's still the auto-lose for pure DW lists.

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    28. I don't mind because I've always been a tri-wing player so this book is lovely goodness to me! Demi-Company to hold the line, Ravenwing to advance up and Grav stuff, Deathwing Knights to drop in on turn 2 and clean up =D

      Sucks for folk that play pure DW though.

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    29. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    30. One thing people are failing to notice is the hint in this weeks WD says DW will probably be in combat by round 2 so look out, I'm reading that as there is a way to get them on the table round 1 and charge after landing.. until everything is released in english this is all just speculations

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    31. It's not speculation, Timotheus has the Codex (albeit in German).

      What the WD hint means is that they can arrive by DS on Turn 2. Neither the Deathwing rule, the Formation rules, nor the detachment rules allow you to charge from DS.

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    32. I was wondering about that too, nightfury. odd thing to say in a WD unless we are missing something really important.

      Also worth noting (not ideal, but kind of fluffy): You can take a full DW detachment, but you need 3 dreads (2 of which are suicide). 2 pods come on turn one (NOTE: they come with DW on 2,3,4 in the FORMATION. there is no such rule on the detachment--ie. drop pods still show turn one). they act as the vanguard and hopefully take out some important stuff. Droppods act as locator beacons, roll for DW turn 2, problem (sort of !) solved.

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    33. GW wants to force you to get RW on the table with the deathwing... that's not entirely an unfluffy rule.

      But yes in a 5 turn game your losing 20% of your firepower. But on the other side you can hold out until turn 4 and drop on objectives giving your opponent only 2-4 turn to wipe out your terminators.

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    34. The big issue with the pod idea with the detachment is that unless you have RW in your army, the DW roll reserves as normal. It has become a crappier version of our old 4th Ed DW Assault.

      The issue with non-TDA Deathwing characters and Land Raider DTs is that the detachment says you *can* field them, but you *must* place them in deep strike reserve, but they *can't* deep strike. The rules are contradicting themselves completely so without a FAQ (or more clear rules elsewhere in the book) it breaks the detachment by fielding such units.

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    35. While losing turn one deep strike is a pain, I'm much more upset about the requirement that they have to be put deep strike reserve, so I can't even start them on the board. I pretty much only play DW, so this is a huge blow to my army

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    36. We need to see the full rules before we jump to conclusions.

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    37. So....we've lost turn 1 DS and they gave it to vanilla? Wow thats Fucking awesome.

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    38. Seriously read the rulebook. For transports it says “Units do not confer the Deep Strike special rule onto a Transport vehicle they are embarked inside.” Therefore they cannot deep strike. Correct?

      The Formation/Detachemnt both say all unit must be placed in deep strike reserve. Correct?

      The BRB also says “In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve.”

      Therefore any land raider must be placed on the board at the beginning of the game with or without its contents. You are also with the detachment able to use the deep striking drop pods on turn one.

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    39. For the formation you may not be able to arrive turn one but is taking some ravenwing really a hardship. It allows for more accurate deep strike into the heart of your opponent. Nothing bad about that at all. Synergy lists have been placed directly under your noses so don't ignore them.

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    40. Well, since I only own 6 RW bikes and don't really hand the money to invest in more, it is a bit of a hardship. Also, DW are pretty much the only part of the book I like, and invalidating a build that's been around since second edition is kind of a big deal

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    41. Dude I have plenty of ravenwing, 12 bikes, 10 land speeders, 12 black knights, 3 attack bikes, 2 vengeance and 1 dark shroud. But excuse the hell out of me if I don't want them shot to shreds before my DW can dp. That first turn dp against tau was excellent.

      But fuck me right?
      And fuck DW first turn and give it vanilla..

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    42. Wow, drama queen much? Did you seriously think this codex was going to be all good and no bad. They gave you plenty and took away very little. You had to expect some downside...

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    43. @Mada, fair enough but I doubt people where expecting something like this to be taken away. Hopefully when the codex drops we can get some clarification on this issue. Baring that, a nice faq.

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    44. I understand the frustration, just waiting for people to see the alternatives.

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    45. Drama queen? Lol right, expressed an opinion and start with name calling? Little wonder naftka wants to change up the comments, prime example Mada.

      So what if I'm a little sour...I have 57 terminator models, so taking away some special rules that make DA termie unique but give that option to vanilla, and keeping them the same point cost does piss me off. If it is in fact true...

      You can understand the frustration YET you scold me? Lol derelict.

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    46. Haha do you read what u type? Or is more of a diarrhea of the mouth thing? So you call me out for name calling and then proceed to call me a derelict. Yea point proven...

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    47. Whats the issue with DS turn 2?

      Cant you hide one longrange dread behind a building or tree for that 1 turn?

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    48. I mean you can, but damn having your whole game dependent on whether your opponent can kill one dreadnought T1 is pretty terrible design...

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    49. ["I understand the frustration, just waiting for people to see the alternatives."]

      If you understand the frustration, then let people vent. Taking people to task for 'understandable frustration' just stirs the pot. This is, IMHO, the exact kind of thing that led to Natfka's post about problems in the comments section not long ago.

      That said, my money is on a missing rule somewhere or a future FAQ. Until then I'd either just houserule DW to not auto-lose at the end of turn 1, or work out some version of SFU for DW. Yeah, there are alternatives, but I've yet to see an alternative that doesn't either make the force not DW, or saddles DW players with more penalties than they gain in benefits by doing so.

      I'm willing to wager that most/all DW players would be fine if they lost 1st turn DS but also wouldn't auto-lose.

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    50. It just seems like you're referring to DW as a separate army. Wasn't the goal to get a better codex? Mission accomplished.

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    51. You realize, I hope, that people have actually played DW as a separate stand-alone army within the larger overall DW force structure, for many years now? That a pure DW force, with nary a non-DW model in it, was both supported in the fluff as well as showcased in WD for years?

      It's only a 'better' codex if you don't play DW or if you are comfortable with mixing DW/RW/Greenwing.

      I mean, no offense, but for someone who literally said "I understand the frustration", you really don't seem to understand the frustration at all.

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    52. No I didn't understand then. I thought it was all one army, but I guess they are all separate forces. So thanks for informing me.

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    53. You can still play DW pur.just take tthe DW Formation and dont use the DW-FoC.
      You dont get auto deepstrike but you save the 130 or so pts for a RW Attacke Formation that you could put on the table turn 1.

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    54. You apparently don't get it either Seb. They have to be able to take an all DW formation because that's the way it's been for years and it's all fluffy that way.

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    55. Explain to me why they shouldn't, then? Other than, you know, this not being something that you yourself care about?

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    56. How's this, GW makes rules for their games, not you or I. Play with their rules or don't play. Or make your "house rules" cater to wants. My comments about understanding frustration and being over dramatic were directed at one post in particular.

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  2. Ive largely used tri wing but even i deepstriked on turn one with my knights. This is going to change things but i think overall it will be alot better for everything except pure DW. Do we know if giving a character a bike gives the ravenwing special rule? I reckon it must by there being 3 hq slots

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  4. Ahhhh, I want a new bike force to add to my armies and now I can't decide between a White Scar allied detachment and the Ravenwing!

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    1. Ravenwing is now inarguably stronger than SM bikes.

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    2. Stronger, but also more expensive.

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    3. Ravenwing looks to be worth the points. It's going to be damn hard to keep Ravenwing out of assault and our support units just went from meh to amazing.

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    4. Ravenwing strike force can only get 1 HQ: Sammael. Even though it has 3 HQ slots... no other HQ has Ravenwing special rule.

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  5. And our great LoW Azrael 215 pt, FP3, NO eternal warrior... Everybody in GW hates this master...

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    1. But don't worry, he gives Leadership 10 to the army of fearless and stubborn units!!

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    2. The Imperial Guard still loves him

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    3. Yup, Azrael is still just as great for a guardsman blob. Though it sure would've been great for our chapter master to be... as great for, well our own chapter haha.

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    4. He does have a cool hat trick for buffing up a transport.

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    5. I wonder how well he would do leading a Skitarii Vanguard squad with three plasma calivers? Then in meleé his sword would effectively be S +1.

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    6. Anyway I'm afraid he's going to be spending most of his time back at the Rock (i.e., gathering dust in my display case). Local tournaments have banned Lords of War.

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    7. Hah, that's ok - as you aren't losing much with not being able to take Azrael :D

      his 4+ helmet sorta letting us do the LandRaider + PFG trick thing is his only "thing" he has going for him.

      But the +3" run/charge warlord trait is kinda cool too - he's certainly a terrible LoW though (maybe the worst yet?)

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    8. Ghaz is the worst I think. Dante and Gabriel Seth suck pretty hard too. At least +3" charge is good. I think any Lord of War that isnt a GC/super-heavy is a bad choice.

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    9. Seth is the worst by far.

      Azrael should have been EW, in fact EW should come with LoW standard. If you have to take him in his own slot reserved for the most badass fighters in the galaxy EW should be standard.

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    10. @Androkt You think DANTE is bad?
      That guy's a monster.

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    11. Uh, Dante is fantastic. Seth on the other hand I will concede is absolute pants.

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    12. +1 Seb, Dante is phenomenal but Seth is utter monkey-scrote.

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  6. Rave wing is the winner in this book
    Reroll jinks
    Full bs or increased bs during overwatch
    Ability to turbo boost or jink and Fire at full or increased bs even for speeders.
    Scout, interceptor
    Ability to overwatch fire with other units
    Scatter less locater beacon for deeostrike units
    Better flyers with a great air superiority fighter
    Sammael is a beast

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    1. Say that second to last line again. I'm enraptured by the Nephilim Jetfighter love! :-D

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    2. Finally got around to painting my Dark Talon yesterday =D

      "What's that, Necron player? You have terrible initiative? LOLOLOL STASIS BOMB IN THE FACE."

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    3. Yes RW improved a lot.
      Bs for overwatch is 2.
      BS goes up to 3 so hitting on 4. Only in formation.
      But the Nephelin still sucks. Darktalon is much better. Much!!!!
      Rw knights & command are still a bit expensiv and dont really fill a roll anymore.

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    4. Excellent harassment unit with their potent, but close range, guns, decent combat abilities and Hit and Run.

      The Scout and re-rolling jink helps keep you alive longer to harass key units and reduce them in numbers enough to let your other units finish them with shooting.

      At least that's how I plan to use them!

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    5. who in the ravenwing got interceptor? i haven't heard.

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  7. This list is going to be a better pure bike army then white scars, although white scars can mix in grav cents

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  8. I understand why people are upset with DW changes but this isn't three armies it is one with more option than smurfs, this is so far the most balanced codex DA have had. We really do have our own favor and a month ago rumors still had us rolled into smurfs. I've never been more excited about a DA codex...

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    1. I agree that this Codex is pretty great for the most part, but the Deathwing part leaves a bitter taste in the mouth considering how often the fluff talks about the Deathwing taking to the field alone. And considering how many people built their whole army around Deathwing.

      For GW to utterly change their mechanics and make them into dedicated support units is just... Bizarre.

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    2. I agree even though turn 1 drop only came recently. If they hadn't given it to smurfs it wouldn't be such a tough pill

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    3. Yeah, like I'd understand if it was a general new push to remove Turn 1 reserves from the game but they literally JUST gave it to Vanillas =(

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    5. Okay mate, no need to be a dick.

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  9. Replies
    1. Good thing SM have a Master of the Forge to unlock more than 1 Relic, oh wait... +1 to DA again.

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    2. >Implying anyone cares about the re-wording.

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    3. DAs have never had a master of the forge... hes literally built into the Rock... as in installed into the largest warp capable ship in existence.

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    4. I wasn't referring to DAs having MotF. We have Int. Chaps to unlock multiple relics. SM have the MotF, which, iirc, no longer exists in the new SM book.

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  10. I'm really happy with the most of new rules and changes, i'd always played with all 3 wings, a solid shooting base of tac/dev, one first wave of rw and the second of dw... Now everything do it better, great sinergy... Obviusly no all is perfect, and untill we have so many holes un the rules:

    DW det: lose the first turn ds is a one less option to surprise, and nobody knows what happen with all unit without deep strike rule (LR/Hq no termies) that have to rest in ds reserves. But the possibility of chose when to come is really tactics...

    Rw det: also here nobody knows who will be the others Hq options, but thinking that u can reroll for traits is probably that is not a real problem. Their rules are simply perfect. Maybe too perfect, but after 20 years playing with a undertier codex, i can't feel bad ;)

    I only have a pity for azrael/asmodai, that continues to be a really sucks, eldar codex has EW for all caracters... I only want one, Azrael, not sammael...

    But is true that i play with my personal caracters, and after so many years i will play with them...

    At the end i think that for me i have only wins, couse the loose i don't use it... Really really happy, now wait for the real cost of every unit... And wait for a deathwing techmarine!!!!

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  11. Don't forget if the rumours of a da campaign box is true da likely have more formations coming and a new hq model as well.

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    1. 3rd company special character. Hoping

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    2. +1 3rd Company is what my Greenwing are based on! =D

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    3. I'd rather have Sapphon, but a named Company Master like Issachar would be fine too.

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    4. Issachar was just a stand in CM, IMO, since Gav butchered the fluff in Master of Sanctity when he said that the 3rd CM wasn't in the Inner Circle. I've always held firm that Orias is the 3rd CM per the Siege of Vraks book. Who knows, we may get names for the CM's since we have all the chapter command names now.

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    5. I went for 4th company, bummer...

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    6. I've been 5th Company since before Dark Vengeance made it cool!

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    7. All they need is a psyker conclav ;D

      I dont See what formations they could releas besides that.
      Landraider formation maybe. But you can use the SM One.

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  12. to all deathwing commanders and DA players in general, if you want the deathwing to be good again (they were never great) don't buy any(deathwing boxes that is), after 6 or 8 months with no sales, they'll get a data slate or a white dwarf formation. we all have deathwing, they want to unload the mountain of ravenwing that's still sitting around from last codex. they have planes, landspeeders and $50 3 man bike boxes ready to go, all of which magically got better. if deathwing sales fall below what they want them to be, they will get the same treatment.

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    1. In fairness, doesn't everyone have a bazillion Termies at this point anyway? They keep insisting on putting Termies in every Dark Angels bundle ever, so I've somehow ended up with about 5000pts of Deathwing from nowhere =P

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    2. The best way to get their attention is to send physical letters to the development team in Nottingham. Be polite and they will take your feedback into consideration.

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    3. That worked really well last codex......

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    4. @Starchild, i can't tell if you are being serious or not, if you are thank you for your advice, if you are not, you may be the funniest man (or women) alive.

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    5. I'm honestly not sure if there is **ANY** way to actually get their attention, because to be honest I don't think I can remember a single instance of GW listening to input. And that goes way back to before they shut down their forums (and even then they just ignored people on there as well).

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    6. Just aso them a rule question in an Email.

      But ask in such away that the answers can only be what you want it to be.
      Like... "did you not items for THW rule to be this"...."Its probably just a oversight that x rules is missing the Word xyz" ect.

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  14. absolutely,everyone does and they know that,but they are all storm bolters and powerfists, so if you want mixed arms,deathwing boxes are necessary at a 2 to 1 ratio (2 squads from dark veng + deathwing box and you have 3 units with the ability to mix arms pretty well (really the only trademark the deathwing have now) and almost all DA players did that awhile ago,some twice over. 5 unchangeable termies didn't wreck dwing sales, it made the dwing box purchases inevitable. they didn't under perfom sales wise,they did just fine, its the other stuff that didn't match their spread sheets and that's what is being addressed. they still figure on selling dwing boxes even now, what i'm saying is if they come in lower than their projections (with all things considered) something will be done about that. sales don't have to be low for there to be change, it has to be lower than what they have already deemed acceptable.
    i'm not trolling or railing against GW's practices, i've been playing for almost 30 years and accepted our ralationship with them long ago. i've found the most likely way to have something addressed by GW is not to buy it. i'm not saying dump DA or boycott GW, i'm saying don't buy anymore termy boxes for awhile and if enough do that for a long enough time,something will happen. the are not planing on dwing selling like the last time around (that has been factored in) the do expect sales to be X, if they come in under X from now to jan or april or beyond it will be dealt with. i'm not judging, i'm saying use the system they have set up to make their plans, to be heard. fight fire with water.

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    1. Just not buying things without telling the producer the reason why is not getting you what you want as it is very hard to guess why the customers don't buy your stuff anymore.

      There could be many reasons like:
      - not enough marketing
      - quality issues
      - local economy
      - "outgrown" the hobby
      - got interested into another game
      - ...

      The list goes on and on. It is valid to vote with your wallet, but you should make clear why you are doing so.

      On the topic of "new models always get great rules to sell them"... I accepted for myself that the rules writers simply don't have a clue about internal codex balance. And that it is a hit or miss wether a model is good or bad.

      Just looking at the last IG codex:
      - Scions are okayish. Slightly weaker than the Storm troopers before, which were a throw away melter anyway.
      - Ogryns are still bad
      - Commissars are... okay? I guess. Never played infantry heavy guard.
      - The transport which I can't even remember the name is just worse than the chimera in every aspect you could ask for.

      Other examples can be given for every codex.

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    2. There could be many reasons like:
      - not enough marketing
      - quality issues
      - local economy
      - "outgrown" the hobby
      - got interested into another game

      - ...
      all true and could be (except the 1st, not in fact,but for people like me.there's no amount of marketing they can spend that will make me buy anything) but those are more likely to show up over all, then specifically inside an individual army.
      an example would be the dark angel planes. combined with the cost in pts in build the army the were hard to justify for the point (the plane would usually be out numbered in the air by the enemy that were all threats to it and always need to come on after the other guys flyers) the missles were under powered and yes the hunter rule is cool,but wasn't enough. the sold but not at the target they set at X. this time around you take the missle bump and rift cannon bump + the left over points for not having to buy transports for base detachment, all make their formation much more likely "and in greater numbers". now if you have 2 or 3 in a formation that all come together on 1 roll, the enemies flyers coming in after don't sting as much when divided by 2 or 3, that was usually focused on one. i would expect you will see a lot more DA players with a lot more planes.
      same for the 2 special landspeeders how well do you think those sold? they've shaved the secondary weapons cost and added a hall point and can be bumped in the ravenwing detach, i think or maybe in their formation, won't have the book till friday. do you think it will hurt their chances of getting to the point they set, that they thought they would hit long ago?
      i'm not saying all the new stuff is always the best, i'm saying if you have a codex and the new one is coming out and there were things in the range that sold poorly (below X) they are more likely (unless they are being removed entirely) to get attention. not as a evil plot, but out of necessity. the more projects that hit their mark, usually means a better chance of more in the future. i'm saying if deathwing aren't up to snuff (for you dwing players or to dark angel players who don't use a ton of them, but are still let down, do what you can to make sure that there are more on the shelves, than GW wants there to be when the next codex comes around or if it drops below X way before their timeline it may get a patch (white dwarf special rules or formation or another approach that has yet to be done like the introduction of new character's that have their own detachment rules along side the codex ones. think of it like the campaign boxes without the the trouble of making boxes or repacks. maybe white dwarf has done that,but i haven't bought one in years.
      i'm not saying i'm right or trying to convince anyone of anything, i'm just saying its the pattern i've noticed. not always or across the board, but seems far to frequent to be by chance.

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  15. sorry guys, i haven't used computers for 20 years,don't know why it posted twice.

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    1. i know to people who use computers all the time this will sound silly,but on my screen the above posted twice, if i click delete on one of them,will it only delete one?the only reason i ask is because i only typed the above once and hit publish once, but there are 2 of them.

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    2. Yep you can delete the extra. More than likely you reloaded the page just after you posted. This caused it to repost it. It is a bit of a design flaw with this site's forums.

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    3. don't know enough about computers to be sure what i think i'm telling it to do and what i'm doing. thanks again,think i got it.

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  16. i'm not trying to be disrespectful and i haven't lost my patience with them or anything of the like. many of you may not believe this (its the internet and you don't know me and i don't blame you) but i've been playing DA since their first codex. have been taking my lumps for years and this is the best codex ever (though it wasn't a tall order to achieve) and i'm going nowhere. i will play with what they give me (i have had the stubborn rule longer than the DA) and adjust accordingly. for those who can't or won't, i believe this is their best option. its my opinion from what i have observed over the years,i'm not saying its a fact.

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    1. So u must be immune to psychology...

      youll get that if you have been playing DA's for as long as you say.

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  17. Where does it say the drop pods can't come in till the second turn

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    1. i'm not 100% on this one, i run my computer through the TV and some of it is hard to read and i don't have the book yet. its not all drop pods, its the one in the deathwing formation. if you take dreads, you must put them in a drop pod, the drop comes in with everything else and ignores the drop pod assault rules.

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  18. the lightning strikes! the rule of chaos breaks! the age of sigmar begins!

    https://twitter.com/Lady_Atia/status/613398101118861312

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  19. Yah i won't be buying any more DA stuff. I would have if we had better rules instead of gimmicky stuff attached to formations/detachments.
    This is how i imagine the codex meeting.
    GW executive @ codex meeting. "lets take away or nerf the stuff that was good in the last edition. Then we'll tie anything good we come up with to formations so the suckers will have to buy more stuff or auto lose.
    Designer- "but what about just making everything better and balanced? that will sell stuff too."
    Entire staff-"hahahahhahaha balanced? Hahahahahaha right."
    Designer- "changing the whole dynamic of the army might piss off players"
    GW executive " these idiots will buy anything we come up with. Don't spend anymore time or money than you have to. Just push it out the door."
    Designer-" sure thing boss"

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    1. Unfortunately anything with "Games Workshop" on the box wins through the sheer power of brand marketing. You have to admit they have that going for them.

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    2. Which is bizarre since they don't do any marketing..

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    3. That's internal marketing, meaning marketing among the fan base. The only real external marketing or branding they do is in video games.

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    1. wow... so the only way to field the flyers is taking 3 of them at a time... just wow.

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    2. Which is why formations and detachments suck. Too restrictive and just promote kit sales.

      I've read through the codex now and looks like I can still run 2 scout squads, land raiders, a flyer and dreadnoughts in CAD with a DW redemption force formation for the deep strike.
      Sad that it limits knights to 0-1

      Only downside there is that i pay an extra HQ tax to take the CAD.

      Still annoying but at least doable.

      Also just noticed that AGAIN, our scouts can't buy teleport homers while vanilla marines can. WTF GW?

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    3. uhhh.... and DW knights have completely useless rules too... Grim Resolve... Stubborn and BS2 Overwatch on a unit that is already fearless and has no guns.

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    5. ^ Can't even begin to rebut the nonsense in the above comments.

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    6. As you agree with me or disagree with me?

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    7. No azrael

      You can go with CAD and once you filled the demi that is also all you need for a brb standart FOC to take flyers as your 3 fast Support choices.
      Or you just use standart FOC from the BRB without the demi buff.
      Or you go for the RW FoC and can take up to 10 flyers or just 1. But the Rest for youre Army has to be RW.
      Only DW cant have the flyer.

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    8. Seb pretty much nails it. You still have CAD, Allied Detachments and the Ravenwing Strikeforce. Plenty of ways to ally in a Neph with minimal or even zero tax.

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    9. right seb12, i'm not saying the above example i gave in one of the answers is the only way to field planes, i 'm just saying given the situation they were in compared to now make them much more appealing (and affordable) then before.

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    10. The two easiest ways to get the flyers into a list outside of a Formation is to take a CAD or go with the Ravenwing Strike Force and a RW Attack/Support choice to survive turn 1.

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  21. A unit of Camo cloaked Scouts hidden away for the 1st turn?

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  22. And a detachment with two slots that cannot be used....

    *houserules bikes as conferring the Ravenwing rule*

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  23. they are good,with a tech marine, i've found are great. in the new book will be a tougher include after friday, i knowing what i know now holds up, i used to have one tech with PF gen in my razorback attached to a tactical squad. without the 4+ for everything within 3' don't know if will still make it in. 10 scouts with snoper rifles, and camo cloaks are tougher then they get credit for. + form what i read, they will BS 4 now.

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  24. but yeah, i defer to others when it comes to formations or detachments or data slates. didn't have a computer until a couple months ago or a codex that has a bunch of them til friday. never used anything but the DA force org.

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  25. So, some little buffs i noticed :

    - Ezekiel force weapon is no more Two-handed.
    - Company master can take Relic blade.
    - Dread may be equiped with 2 Twin-linked autocannon.
    - Librarian have access to Pyromancy.
    - RWCS can go up to 6 guys rather than 5.

    But no more precision strike for DWK. :-/

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    1. I think GW just rolls dice to decide which special rules are sacked and which are retained between updates.

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    2. Deathwing Knights still have precision strikes. It's just the basic "Precision Strikes" rule now instead of "You cannot hide".

      Librarians had Pyromancy, and Dreadnoughts were able to take 2 twin-linked autocannons in 6th.

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    3. @ starchild, i think (or more hope) the give more consideration than that,but the metaphor a friend and i, from my group, joke around about is a monkey throwing poop at a dart board, is the deciding factor.

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    4. Dreads had 2 TL ACs & Librarians has access to Pyromancy in the last book :D

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  26. does anyone know or has seen what spell trees will be available to the DA's? is the new tree replacing one of the old choices or has it been added to them. have a sinking feeling we are going to devination, that would be big.

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    1. We get Interromancy, Divination, Daemonology, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy.

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    2. thank you Thomas, that's a big relief, i think the new spell tree will have its uses,but didn't want to give up devination for it.

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  27. whats with all the chaplains, i had a chaplain model, got one in dark vengence, and now another one. beyond putting one in an assault squad, what is their value? a librarian fills the same slot in force org. and prescience (when it goes off) is far better,than zealot (after turn one in hand to hand, + the spell also applies to shooting). if your taking him to give someone fearless and need it, the odds are they are in a combat you wouldn't want them to stay in away. are the chaplains any different in the new book than they used to be?

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    1. Int chap gives PE csm, fear and zealot

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    2. that's better,but don't know if its enough to wrestle one of the HQ slots away from current includes,but once the book is here, i will experiment. thanks for the info jonathan.

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    3. how are they defining chaos space marine? the vanilla codex or does it include demonkin?

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  29. You can't even use the 3 HQ slots in the Ravenwing Strike Force: Sammael is the only HQ with the Ravenwing special rule. Someone screwed up.

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    1. might have been a bad pic, both deathwing and ravenwing strike forces have 1 compulsory and 2 optional for HQ.

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    2. your right, i just read the bike def (if you buy one as an option for a character) ravenwing isn't in there, so no other hq's can be in it.

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  30. the entry for terminator weapons (on the war gear page) says anyone in termie armor, but when you go through the unit descriptions, company masters our the only ones with access to it. the librarian in termie armor lost his d field and can't take a storm shield. it looks like the 3 standards (that did stuff) are all gone too dev, rep and fort.

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  31. "company masters are" not our.

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  32. int. chap in termie has access,it seems they purposefully took away all chances for a libby to get a 3+ invul. only option is conversion field (4+ invul) and since i'll be fighting demon princes with and without d weapons, why bother?

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  33. we don't have the librarian formation either

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