The new Chaos Daemons are going to have some randomness thrown into them, in the form of the Warpstorm table according to the latest White Dwarf battle report and current rumors. This was found on GW fanworld and posted up across the forums. Thought I would share it.


I am not sure whether this is a fantasy version or for 40k. It appears for fantasy with Wardsaves listed, but I cannot imagine that the 40k version will look much different. Rumors have it that this table is to be rolled for every turn.

via sninsch on Warseer
from gw fanworld:

warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

167 Comments:

  1. The more I read, the more I think I'm crazy for worrying about these rumors. They seem nuts.

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    1. On the other hand, its possible, maybe they were like, damn that deployment method isn't really doing it, what else could we do to represent a daemonic incursion? Oh! We'll do like we did with Crusade of Fire and have all kinds of insane random stuff happen all game!

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  2. Yay, more random stuff that you can't plan anything around.

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    1. Seriously. The inclusion of all the randomness (magic, random charge lengths, blah blah) is killing aspects of the game for me. I love 40k, but started exclusively playing it-(except some random just for fun games)- after playing a fantasy tournament that the randomness killed me. No good tactics involved from the player who beat me, just randomness. It was ridiculous and I wont play those tournaments anymore. Now 40k is moving to this too and I hate it. I think the randomness is a very bad step in the hobby. There is already enough of the random "stuff happens in war" stuff in normal dice rolling. A grot gets a lucky shot and shoots a space marine in the eye whatnot so forth. If GW wants to increase sales they need to take a leaf(not the whole thing) from other competitive games that have so much less randomness and make the game TACTICAL again.
      Sorry for the rant. Just my opinion about the direction the game is going.
      And no-I didnt just quit playing fantasy because I lost and am a poor loser, I still play that with friends and enjoy it. But in a competitive setting its not a fun game to play anymore.

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    2. GW have made it pretty clear that they don't care for competitive play.

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    3. WH40K a competetive game? Have you even cared taking a look in the rulebook? And randomness? In a game of dice? How outrageous! Seriously, some people just don't seem to get it. Play this game however you like it, for chrissakes, but quit complaining like spoiled toddlers. Really.

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    4. There's a difference between randomness in dice rolling and shooting and just loads of pointless random tables.

      I take a squad of marines and I expect them to kill on average a certain percentage of another unit and take a certain percentage of casualties in return. It's random, but I have something to work with.

      When I'm rolling on a random table that may benefit myself, my opponent or neither, what is the point? There's no decision making on my part. No control. No input. I simply roll some dice and the game tells me what happens.

      I don't play competitively. It doesn't interest me. I do however want to play tactically. That's the point of having little soldiers that move around the board.

      If I wanted to just generate a random narrative with little to no input from me, I'd write a computer program to do it.

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    5. that table is pretty powerful, it could easily destroy a desvastator squad without skill, or being in range or doing anything, great! ..

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    6. I like the idea of having absolutely no plan or idea of whats going to happen per turn. There is only one of two charts that marine players have to deal with. Chaos space marine can play around with the chaotic and fickle nature of daemons with their mutation table.

      Daemons have always had a chaotic nature to them, before that chaotic nature took the form of their deepstrike rules. Now it just revs it a little in a different direction. If you don't like that style of play, don't buy daemons. But it will challenge your tactical abilities if you suddenly have to deal with unexpected results.

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    7. For those of us who already have them, we can't "un-buy" our armies.
      Could you imagine the flak they would get if vanilla marines got a stupid table like this? "Roll a die at the start of every turn. On a one, it kills one of your units, randomly determined. On a six, it kills an enemy unit, randomly determined."
      That. Adds. Nothing. The book works just fine without it, and while technically it doesn't nerf it because it's equal odds both ways, there is absolutely no reason to add it.

      Extra randomness for its own sake is a terrible idea, especially from a marketing standpoint. Competitive players absolutely hate it, and casual players don't care one way or the other.
      Market to competitive players, because casual ones NEVER CARE one way or the other, that's why they're casual.
      Nobody ever said "hey, this is nice and all, but could we get some random charts? I think we need some random charts, guys. And make them pay extra for them too."

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    8. Well, I'm a casual player who cares about fluffy armies and I care about army composition. I don't mind putting down a bunch of models and watching my opponent blow them away turn one without getting to use them, but having my army derp itself to derp on turn one would probably have ended my wargaming career if these were the rules I started with. There's a difference between beer and pretzels and LSD and pop rocks gaming.

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    9. @Kinggeorge
      Dude really?
      Are you not smart enough to read my whole comment, or not smart enough to remember it? I talk about the dice randomness and yes Ive looked at the rulebook. Maybe you should chill out in a corner somewhere because you are acting like a toddler.
      Anywho--
      I have to agree with SnaleKing- if marines started getting tons of random tables tons of people would freak about losing tactics- Extra randomness is a terrible idea.

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    10. I disagree. The Dark Gods are completely fickle, and don't care a bit about any of their minions, from the lowliest Nurgling to the mightiest Daemon Prince. It makes sense that they would screw around with everything every Daemon shooting phase because they are, after all, Chaos! So from a fluff standpoint, it makes sense, at least to me.

      From a game mechanic standpoint, look at it another way: Now, you, as a general, need to be prepared for any possibility, good and bad, in addition to reacting to what your opponent is doing & the dice are doing. I remember games when it seemed like I couldn't fail a Feel No Pain roll on anything (all Nurgle army), including making several Invul Saves & It Will Not Die rolls on my Heldrake. It really put pressure on my opponent, who was a much better player than I, and forced him to think and react differently than if I'd rolled statistically average. It helped make him an even better general (even though in-game it frustrated him).

      If you want to play Mathhammer, play Space Marines. Seriously, I know that's not what someone with 4,000 points of Daemons who likes to be in control of their destiny wants to hear, but that's the point, & I think Kelly is (once again) brilliant here. You're not as "in control" with Daemons as you can be with Space Marines or IG, because of the fact that THEY ARE DAEMONS, and everything about and around them is Chaos.

      Now, look at it that way, and consider this: Life (may have) just handed you a bag full of lemons. Are you going to stand there and bitch and cry about it? Or are you going to get busy & make lemonade?

      As for me, I'll be making lemonade, and enjoying the process and the results.

      You have the choice: you can choose to see something like this as a terrible new change, or you can embrace the change that is inevitable in all aspects of life and try to make the best of what you will have to work with starting this Saturday, and try to become a better player as a result...

      You choose...

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    11. "The Dark Gods are completely fickle, and don't care a bit about any of their minions, from the lowliest Nurgling to the mightiest Daemon Prince."

      False, Nurgle loves all of his children as a father. The other gods are dicks, but Nurgle is extremely loyal and funny to boot. Don't defame the name of the allfather.

      As for the rest, none of what's come out so far sounds fun to me. Making the game more complicated and making your army less your own and more "buy some random stuff and hope you get what you want" may be literally chaotic, but are you thinking about it from how a new player will experience it? If the first time I put an army I spent 500 dollars on and hours painting on the table I lost half my models on turn 1 to a warpstorm result, I'd probably not want to play the army anymore. I know I lost a defiler in my first game of 40k (in 4th edition) and to this day I have never put that model on the table again. Granted, the Defiler just isn't very good, but that's what I'm most worried about. I don't take daemons as my primary so I'm not as worried about the rest.

      I'll probably just wind up taking a Great Unclean One and a small nurgling squad from now on, because I can get a daemon prince and chaff troops from my own book. Making lemons I guess. That doesn't make the annoyance with all this extra crap on top of a game that is already too long and complicated any less legitimate. I for one support anyone who reacts strongly, its their opinion and many of the criticisms I have read have been spot on.

      "Now, you, as a general, need to be prepared for any possibility, good and bad, in addition to reacting to what your opponent is doing & the dice are doing."

      The thing is, I've never rolled a random objective or random terrain. I've never done the "proper" method for random allocation. This isn't because I don't think those rules are interesting concepts, its because it adds tons of extra crap to a game that's already way too bloated. I've had 1500 point games break 2 hours, I don't want more things getting in the way of PLAYING. The end result? I'm concerned about the future of 40k and hedging by eyeing up Sandwyrm's new game system and starting an Infinity force, etc. The thing is, I love 40k because I love papa nurgle, and nobody else has that. I am loyal to GW only to the extent that they do my chosen chaos god justice. CSM was good, not great, but this feels like a step in the wrong direction. We'll have to see though, we don't know the whole army yet.

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    12. "I lost half my models on turn 1 to a warpstorm result"

      Please tell me how you think that will happen.

      Or just be more dramatic and use less facts. It makes your internet whining have an extra added pizzazz.

      It's a risk/reward table that most of the time won't do much of anything. But let's keep making it out to be a much bigger deal then it is, because that's what internetting is all about.

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    13. "It's a risk/reward table that most of the time won't do much of anything. But let's keep making it out to be a much bigger deal then it is, because that's what internetting is all about."

      It's a risk reward table that can potentially have massive consequences, from wiping out an enemy's warlord without you even having line of sight to them, to taking up to 5 casualties in every unit (ld 7 for instability tests), all without anyone doing anything. Its a stupid game mechanic, as I've said about a dozen times, 40k doesn't need to get MORE complicated, its already a bloated mess of a game. As I keep having to ask, how many people remember to roll for random objectives and random terrain? I exclusively play pickup and tournament games (cause i only play at my flgs) and I've only rolled random objectives once, my opponent and I have both forgotten in every other game of the few dozen 6th edition games I've played. More random crap to remember to do isn't going to make the game better, its going to make it worse. It wont surprise me if people just wind up not rolling on the table and playing daemons with the rest of the rules.

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    14. LOL. That's likes saying "It won't surprise me if DE just ignore this whole complicated Pain Token mechanic."

      >>all without anyone doing anything

      What? You took an army out of a Codex that had this rule. Next time your plastic toy soldiers imaginary lascannon kills a tank you're opponent should just ignore the result because you really didn't have to do anything but roll some dice to make it happen...

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    15. And yet every mission I've played has used random objectives and terrain, but it never gets rolled for. Hell, we forget to roll for night fight half the time. Anything GW does that makes 40k more complicated is stupid and hurts the game system. Since the table is both a plus and a minus, I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me if some players just didn't use it. If someone I was playing against wanted to use daemons and not roll on the stupid table, I'd allow it without question. I don't use daemons as a primary detachment so its an issue I'll never encounter. Whatever people who play decide, the fact of the matter is that the gamers determine the rules, not GW.

      You're also confused about mechanics that are passive and active. A passive event occurs automatically, an active event is when someone does something. Oh, and you sure are emotionally invested in this dumb mechanic, wassup with that? I'm not angry, I just think GW is hurting a game system that had promise (although I think 6th made the game more bloated and take a lot longer to play than 5th or 4th edition).

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  3. Oooohhh, I like the spawning new stuff on a 12.

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    1. I like 11 myself but anything below 10 seems mighty harsh. How does this even trigger, does anyone know?

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    2. It's only harsh if you have a unit of that god's mark. If you have Nurgle, & Khorne units, and you roll the one for Tzeentch or Slaanesh, it doesn't affect you.

      Plus not sure it was noticed, but this only applies if Daemons are your primary detachment. So if you have Daemon allies, this won't come into play, which makes it that much less harsh.

      And yes, it is harsh in some cases, but it's very rare statistically. If you have a lot of Nurgle units, and you roll the one that drops a template on your Nurgle units, think of it as Tzeentch fucking with Nurgle. The Dice Gods are as fickle as the Dark Gods, after all... LOL!

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    3. Hey, look. A rational poster that actual read the chart and thought about before getting his panties in a bunch.

      Props to you good sir.

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  4. the 40k version is exactly the same

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    1. It's exactly the same? Wow, that sucks. GW actually managed to nerf one of the worst armies in the game. I wonder if I can get my daemons on eBay and gone before the release, before no one wants them.

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    2. That would more than likely depend of the price you throw out there probably. You should make it absurdly cheap so that way you can and then forward me the link. I like models, especially when they're cheap.

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  5. and its done at the start of your shooting phase every turn

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  6. here is the warlord chart:

    1: Warlord causes Instant Death with cc attacks
    2: Warlord and his unit have Hatred (Everything)
    3: As long as Warlord is alive, all enemies take LD tests at -1Ld
    4: All daemons within 12'' of warlord reroll failed Instability tests
    5: May reroll warp storm table
    6: Daemons including Codex:CSM daemons deepstriking within 6'' of warlord don't scatter as long as warlord was on table from the beginning of the turn.

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    1. I like that they included a connection to the CSM codex. I was hoping for some synergy between the two armies. I only wish the CSM codex had some rules that connect it to the deamons codex as well.

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    2. Loci affecting CSM units would be pretty good, you could take a blob of 35 cultists with mark of nurgle and give them feel no pain with a herald for a nice meat shield!

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  7. OK, I get it, they're demons, but why does GW think more random = more fun?

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    1. Random = unexpected = interesting = fun

      I'd rather a game where I don't know whats could happen from turn to turn, rather than one where I feel it's decided very early on.
      That's just me though

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    2. sounds like you don't play space marines =)

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    3. I'd rather the surprises come from my opponent's tactics, not dice. Even with both armies on the table, I still don't know if he'll figure out that he cannot possibly kill all six screamers before they're munching his scouts, and focus on killing my cultists camping backfield. Better that then my cultists and his scouts exploding in a random-poof, because random.

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    4. I like the random elements. Sure, some of these look a little too game altering (especially given the other charts) but given that daemons have little in the way of long range shooting, this will keep those gun line turtle armies on their toes.

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    5. >>Better that then my cultists and his scouts exploding in a random-poof, because random.

      As apposed to exploding in a random poof because of the dice you rolled at them? It's amazing how many of you have convinced yourselves their is some magical distinction between the two concepts.

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  8. All enemy psykers take a ld on 3d6 and die if they fail(do you get a save, does number of wounds matter) and you get a herald?(I play Eldar I don't like how that sounds) What if your playing demons, are pink horrors psykers? would they all die and you get Herald? And what about Grey Knight Units? And what, this roll happens automatically every turn? There has to be more to this, I would hope there is more to this.

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    1. So you can take out the opponents best character before he even goes. Holy crap. I see there are a lot of things that hurt you, but the rewards for rolling in your favor are so great that you almost have to have a bunch of things that hurt you on the table.

      "Oh you have a farseer? Not anymore!"

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    2. I think its just pitck one psyker that tests.

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    3. I imagine it will be similar to a rll of 3 as in it will be a single psyker.
      There are many armies which will have none on the table, so it could well be a wasted roll. And the 3D6 LD test on the Daemon Character is pretty much just as bad.

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    4. "Enemy Psyker" is still every grey knight. I'll take it.

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    5. I imagine it is just 1. There would be riots if it were any more. Still nice though if enemy has a particularly nasty psyker on board.

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    6. Grey Knights have their justicar take the roll or elect a single model if the justicar is dead, so it wouldn't hit the entire unit. Still, that ability would be no bueno to face if it pans out the way it's described.

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    7. you choose ONE enemy psyker on the table (i can confirm that)

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    8. Who picks witch psyker? And ya the demon player could lose his, but when if he does atleast his enemy does not get a character to replace it.
      Yes Its random and I don't mind some randomness but this could basically end the game on a couple lucky rolls at the beginning. Eldar is a old codex and maybe we'll get something to counter this in the new one but right now the only way to be somewhat effective with them is to use your Farseers to buff other units. It would be kinda discouraging to have them just die on a random roll that can't be countered. Yes they can get killed but you can also protect them and they have a chance but this, oh 11, roll 3d6 for ld(witch is a 50/50 shot at ld 10) you failed I get warlord kill, 1st blood any strategy you had is fubar'd and here is a free Character smack dab in your lines to deal with without firing a shot. Thats a little to random IMO.

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    9. you choose 1! enemy psyker on the battlefield

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    10. @will H, I was typing and I didn't see your post till I published mine.
      Would it count as a Perils of the Warp or is it something totally different? If it is Perils then its not so bad Ghosthelm and Runes of witnessing might help.

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    11. the enemy psyker simply rolls 3d6, and if they fail their LD on those 3 dice they turn into a herald of the demon players choice and placed within 6" of the character then the character is removed from the table. no saves of any kind allowed as it doesnt cause a wound and it doesnt count as a perils

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    12. Hmm... I wonder if they're going to errata the Imperial Guard's "it's for your own good" rule, as that's EXACTLY what it's supposed to prevent?

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    13. Thats BS IMO. I could understand this If it was the rules for playing on a Daemon world or In the Northern Wastes in WFB but for these rolls just to happen is ridiculously stupid IMO. Its like flipping a coin every turn to see if someone losses. I mean whats the fluff for it?

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    14. An Eldar player, who has had possession of one of the best Psychic deterrents in the game, that always works, no matter what, is now bitching about another army having a 5.6% chance to _then_ have a 50% chance to kill one of their Psykers.

      That's pretty hilarious.

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  9. Replies
    1. Durchschlag, the german version of AP

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    2. Probly (AP)Armour Penetration in german - Durchschlag(DS)

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    3. or DeepStrike. That's what I use it for.

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    4. Interesting, it translates as "Punch", but why not Panzerdurchschlag?

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  10. German abbreviation for AP ("Durchschlag").

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  11. theres no rule for rending in fantasy. this is 40k rules

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    1. You got peanut butter in my chocolate! Wait, no, maybe I got chocolate in your peanut butter...

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  12. I thought instability was bad enough?! We might as well fight ourselves as we will probably end up causing more hits to our own units then the enemy ever will..

    If this took place of a failed psychic test or something maybe but start of every shooting turn is way too much!

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    1. 3 straight up awesome results, 3 really bad ones ad 4 results that affect every enemy unit and a small subset of yours.

      I think you are letting fear of change make you crazy again burgers.

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    2. Fear of my awesome bad luck at rolling also but still I think it is way to much. You have to have some models on field you can plan without losing them to random charts every turn. This just makes planning nearly non existent.

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    3. Any individual unit youn control has less than a 2.8% chance of getting hit by one of those. That's before rolling to wound and the saves, both of which will push it down even further.

      Compare to your opponents units that each have about a 5% chance per turn of getting slapped.

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    4. Actually yes sorry you are right. This highly benefits a mono god army. Any info on how units are chosen? Because its rumored Heralds negate instability so you could negate damage even further.

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    5. But on the side of fluff, it's nice that each god lashes out at the enemy AND the opposing god units :P

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    6. NB, time to saddle up with a CSM army and make your daemons allies, you'll get to avoid this whole thing :)

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    7. ++ to Leon, another poster that took the time to actually think about the chart.

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  14. Rumor from an Italian site:
    Nurgle toughtness:
    GUO 7
    plague bearers 4
    Herald of Nurgle 5
    Beast of Nurgle 5
    Plague drones of Nurgle 5
    Nurglinge 3
    Ku’Gath 7
    Epidemus 5

    Daemon Prince: T5, not 4 as rumored.

    At first I was upset at the idea of Plague Bearers going down in toughness, but with the up the rumored 4++ save and shrouded (banking a 2+ behind a defense line)I'n not so against it. Esspecially since most other demons will be T3, so they're still tougher then other demons.

    can anyone corroborate these numbers?

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    1. plague bearers have a 5+ invun like most of the book and gain shrouded and defensive grenades for being Demons of Nurgle

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    2. T4 PB's now?!?...What in the unholy mother of.. Urge to rage quit rising

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    3. But only 9pts a model according to the same person!

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    4. Ah, that makes them much more useful. 9 points isn't so bad if they're only T4, and shrouded. A unit of 10 would only be 90 points, well worth sitting in the back line and hug an objective.

      Tell me, Will H. Do you know if they still have BS0 and as such can't use a quad gun?

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  15. bloodletters are now 10points a model
    horrors, bearers and demonettes are now 9 points a model


    incase anyone is interested

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    1. I think everyone is interested:D

      but does this mean this rumors are wrong?:

      http://natfka.blogspot.de/2013/02/chaos-daemon-information-instability.html

      at least concerning theese units

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    2. Are bloodcruahers really "monsterous beasts" as their unit type?

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    3. and yes, 99% of the stuff in that previous post is fake slava

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    4. Ok this does it. The points given above are totally off from the ones given in another post. Obviously someone is messing with us intentionally.

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    5. yup, the person who supplied all of that info to Faeit had a very imaginative mind when he wrote them up because nothing he posted other then nurgle losing feel no pain was true

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    6. Khorne lord marine on juggernaut became cavalry unlike current daemons so that would seem consistent, but now I don't know what's real... Good thing it's close to the actual release!

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    7. juggernaughts are the same for bloodcrushers in the demon codex for 40k. they are now cavalry. On another note, Skulltaker is now only 100points and can take a juggernaught for 45pts extra but no longer can he have a chariot. His instant death attack is different now and he only causes instant death when he rolls a 6 to wound

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    8. then why don't you deliver all the legit information yoe have?;)

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    9. Will H--
      In order of importance:
      Do Demons still get the 2/1HQ for Heralds?

      What are the stats like for the Greater Demons if everything before this was fake?

      Do you remember any of the Locii?

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    10. 2 for 1 heralds still

      T6 st6 ws+bs 10 i9 on the bloodthirster

      the locii did small things like +1 to a stat etc, didnt really look at them too much

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    11. And more important than ANY of those... How's the Epi's Tally looking? Nerf/boost/untouched?

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    12. oh damn, so we have to choose between greater daemons, herolds AND daemon princes now?? well thats sucks, i like deversity and all, but i dond't think i will use both of my dameon price models that often in this case...

      and bloodthister is as strong(6) as freaking canoptek wraith?
      What about Kairos, is he useless too now`?

      thz for all your answers btw...

      any chance to get the point cost for bloodcrushers?

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    13. Someone is BS'ing here. Who is the more reliable source between yesterdays and this?

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    14. What about the Keeper of Secrets? Is the GUO T7?

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    15. epis tally nerfed compared to previous chart

      0-6 wounds no effect
      7+ +1 strength
      1x+ +1 toughness
      1x+ poison 2+
      2x+ feel no pain 4+

      ive put x as some numbers as i cant remember perfectly what the exact amount was

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    16. I would tend to believe today's. Monsterous Beasts as a unit type beggered belief. 4 s10 ap2? With a 12' ignores terrain move + rerollable charge threat range? Naw.

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    17. 14+: +1T
      21+: poison 2+
      28+: Fnp

      works only for daemons of nurgle within 6"

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    18. 'works only for daemons of nurgle within 6" '

      Fuck you, Kelly.

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    19. >works only for daemons of nurgle within 6"
      Welp, time to shelv Epidemus and his babysitters once more, he had a god run over the last few months. For the cost I'll just spam some plague marines.
      Fuck this shit. Seriously.

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    20. 9 points per Plaguebearer? Now you're talking! Epidemius may have gotten nerves, but at those pints costs I might have to buy another box of Plaguebearers.

      Time to make lemonade!!! LOL!

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    22. Nerfed, not nerves. Fucking iPad... :-/

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  16. If everything on this german site is true daemon players will get the most dissapointing codex in a long while.

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  18. Is it just me or is it kind of hard to tell what they mean?

    Like: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:

    do they mean roll a D6 and on a 6 each unit takes a 5" template S4 hit...and what does DS mean? Also, rolling on a table then rolling a d6 on the result and only hitting on a 6 seems kinda weird.

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    1. Maybe that got lost in translation, but here is how it works (according to the guy in the german forum):

      1) Roll 2 x D6, then look on the warpstorm table.
      2) If you roll one of those 4 "god specific" results, you roll 1 x D6 for EACH UNIT that can be affected (enemy or daemons this god hates).
      3) If you roll a 6, something happens, like additional hits on the unit.

      Example: You roll 2D6 and get a 5, the Tzeentch effect. Then every enemy unit and every nurgle unit has to roll a D6. If one rolls a 6, this unit gets hit by a (scatter applies) blast template, dealing S4 DS5 hits which ignore cover.

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  19. The more randomness, the merrier. Had a laugh because of the Ward save in a Ward armybook.

    For the "competitive" players complaining about random dice rolls in a game based on random dice rolls, there is a perfectly balanced miniature wargame with no randomness whatsoever, and even though there is an official recommendation on "tournament legal" figures, you can use the pieces from any manufacturer even in official events. The only downsides may be that there is only one armylist, there is only one scenario with fixed deployment, the current edition is over 500 years old, and even the latest FAQ came over 200 years ago. (Yes, it's called "chess".)

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    1. There is more strategy playing snakes and ladders than there is this thing and when that costs or wins you the game IN A STRATEGY BASED GAME it is a bad thing.

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    2. I'd much more likely call it a random diced based game.. Being that everything is decided via dice rolls. People are really over reacting to one table that will keep things interesting from turn to turn

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    3. I agree with Nurgle Burgers. Its one table that could essentially end the game every turn and it just automatically happens. I could understand if a certain action in the game gave the player a roll on the table like CSM boon table but for this to just happen, Stupid IMO. It would be like playing with the Daemon World rules from Crusade of Fire every game whether you wanted to play on a daemon world or not.

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    4. The game is primarily driven by fixed mechanics. Yes, there are random rolls, but you dont roll for most weapons' strength and range every turn. 40k isn't just randomness, its players acting, random results, and then reacting, etc. You could use that excuse to justify any game mechanic that involves a dice roll, but how many people do you see using the "proper" random wound allocation method? If the point of the game was just dice rolls everyone would be giddy at spending 10 minutes trying to figure out which model took a wound, but in reality most people like playing their opponent with their army, so they figure out a janky workaround to make the annoying dice rolls go faster. Just sayin.

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    5. @Snowtrooper

      +++

      Although the tactical acumen of many players is more suited for the friendly confines of checkers.

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  20. just pretend your an ork and everything is fine ;-)

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    1. Khorne should be the one with speed boosts then, not slaanesh xD

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    2. ^^ Best point made on this whole comments section.

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  21. I actually really like this table. I am not a person that likes random tables that can hurt my own army, or take away too much strategy. However, the positive effects are VERY positive, and it just seems so appropriate for daemons. You'll roll at least 5 times a game, sometimes it'll go your way and sometimes it won't.

    I think the positives are far stronger than the negatives in this table. Yea, one of your characters can lose a wound, but one of their characters can be turned into spawn, or you can just summon a new squad of daemons right onto the table.

    I can see why people would hate it though. But so far I like the rumor.

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  22. I wonder if you ally with daemons, do you still have to roll on this table.

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    1. You only roll on it if your main army is daemons

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    2. muahaha, good. Now to get back to thinking about Huron infiltrating me a great unclean one and some plague drones..

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    3. Ooooh, that would be good... :-)

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  23. #11 is not cool. I don't no why anyone would think it's alright to have that as a rules mechanic.

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    1. 11 is almost as bad as 3. That will wreck almost any character. also, 11 isn't so bad unless you take a psyker. Alot of people aren't

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    2. It has a VERY strong positive, BUT it can also have ZERO help to the daemon player if there are no psykers on the table which is quite likely with anything but Eldar/Nids.
      In fact Orks, Tau, Necrons, BTs, DE it is guaranteed to be useless.

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    3. Jaws of the world wolf never felt 'cool' as an opponent

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    4. As someone said earlier, not every enemy army is going to have psykers; though I do feel that the 3d6 roll is a bit much. At least make it a 2d6 roll or something.

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    5. I do not think 3D6 is a bit much. Necrons make you do it. Nids make you do it. Eldar make you do it (for EVERY psychic test, which is terrible for my thousand sons). Why can't daemons?

      Its not like its every turn. The result of 11 will come up maybe once every 2 games, as opposed to the powers I mentioned above which will factor in just about every game, in some cases (Eldar) every turn.

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    6. since most Psykers are LD 10, 2d6 doesn't work.

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    7. Necrons don't make your character go away.

      Also, most people agree Jaws is a stupid thing, just because that exists doesn't excuse other bad things. But I actually think this is worse.

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    8. Necrons make your character attack itself, in addition to taking warscythes to the face. Yes it does make your character disappear.

      And again, this is an 11, that's like 1/18 chance of happening or something like that, as opposed to jaws, that happens every turn on a dude that stops other psychic powers as well...

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    9. ^^This.

      5.6% chance for one Psyker, that your opponent may or may not even have, take a 50% test.

      SOOO BROKENENENENENNE!

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  24. You mean players are gonna have to adapt to a changing battle field? Say it aint so!

    I wish more of the codex had something like this.

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  27. Looking at the English translate of where this actually came from I am surprised no one has picked up on that they also list that GD allow DP's to be taken as HS instead of HQ.

    http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?27643-Daemons-Rumours/page18

    Scroll down

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    1. aye, for example bloodthirsters make demon princes of khorne a heavy instead of HQ, fateweaver makes demon princes of tzeentch heavy instead of HQ etc

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    2. Well that is kind of huge! This makes daemon princes much more flexible, pretty cool.

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    3. Oh google translate. My brain pain make gets.

      Still, the god spesific demon weapons sound like alot of fun. AP2, specialist weapons.
      Khorn looks like it gets extra swings as it lands hits, Tzeentch explodes if you die in melee and does damage to everybody in D6 inches. Nurgel forces a Toughness test, or you lose an extra wound with no saves, and Slannesh does the same on an Initiative test.
      The name of the Slanneshi sword transleted at 'Ghost Rider Sword.' I'm holding out that they'll call it the DOOM RIDER Sword, and then I'll field good-'ol Doom Rider as a steed mounted herald for kicks.

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    4. Likely it translates to something more along the lines of "soul stealer".

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    5. Sorry for the double post, but went there and read the whole google translate dump. I am pretty convinced, but we will see.

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  28. Is anyone else finding that some of their comments just disappear after publishing? I know I've deleted one and that leaves a space saying as much but some are gone without a trace!

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  29. Not keen on the result that instantly kills a psyker if they fail a 3d6 ld test. As an eldar player who relies on seers it is too much. If it was take a perils test for one psyker that would be ok as we have ghosthelms plus perils aren't too
    dangerous but this is crazy! Hope it's not true.

    I hope if it is true there is a chance of the warpstorm abating like imhoteks lightning thing.

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    1. @phoenix83: Look at number 3. That can KO a GD or a DP easily. I don't think it is so bad.

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    2. Ya but it doesn't leave one of your enemys charecters in its place and it only causes wounds it doesn't Instant kill so even if you get unlucky enough to roll it there is still a chance the GD or DP won't die.

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    3. I... I don't disagree that it's pretty rough for Eldar. However I must say that judging it against pretty much the worst book in the game right now doesn't really give us a good sense of the power...

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  30. While I like the Warp Storm Table myself, I am a little more than worried about the stats on Greater Daemons. I have a little bit of trouble with the BT remaining St6, but oh well, i9 and WS10 might make up for it. Also who knows what upgrades exist. I am a little dissappointed (assuming truth) that heralds still count towards HQ as that section is just so cluttered, and heralds seem to be a huge part of the army now. I guess that's fine too. But the thing nagging at me right now is, if lesser daemons are all 9pts a pop (10pts for BLs) does that mean we should be treating them as a horde army? Will we also get 30 daemon squads? Also this would make pink horrors super effective as cheap psyker units. I know the days are gone for unkillable PB units, but the other 3 gods seem to have gotten a huge boost.

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    1. I was under the impression that Horrors didn't drop in price... But also, regarding the HQ crowding, I think it's becoming part of a trend where books are trying to make you want to use double force org (Chaos with cheap but effective hqs, including the faux tech and the zeal giver, with 4 hq choices you can take the ones that seem mandatory (a lord for unlocking, or a sorcerer for invis/bio) and still sneak in a Chaos Chaplain.

      Dark Angels have the same issue, you have your unlock HQ, and then do you want to use a Librarian, Generic Captain for gear, or a Chaplain/interrogator?

      And here with the third 6th ed codex, you have the question of greater Daemon (probably only in 2k+ games), Princes (but shifted force org if you have a GD, at this point, a very large game) or Heralds to support your basic Daemons (probably going to do this often). In a 2k+ game you could have 6 heralds, a Greater Daemon, and a Daemon Price pushed over to heavy. Suddenly with double force org HQ doesn't seem so crowded huh?

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  31. I was hoping this table would be more like the Chaos Boon table. Small little, subtle effects that are fun but competitive and don't happen too often. If an average game lasts six turns, there is a 1/6 chance you'll wipe out your own army from instability tests! C'mon GW! You can do so much better!

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    1. The chance on rolling a double 1 (or rolling a double 6 for that matter) is a 2.77%.

      Not being snarky about this but its not as bad as you think.

      There is actually a 50% chance that the outcome will be one of the 4 'god attacks'. This is way more beneficial than you are giving it credit for. Reduce the negative effect on your army by playing a mono god and you for sure come out way ahead. Playing Nurgle or Slaanesh will give you that much more chance of not being affected. There are fewer dice combinations that add up to 5 or 9 (2 in each case) than there are that add up to 6 or 8 (3 in each case).

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    2. As Dan points out, it's a 1/36 chance...followed by another 50/50 chance/unit of doing nothing that has both a 1/36 chance of killing you outright and a 1/36 chance of bringing your unit back up to full strength.

      That...looks pretty balance too me. So if you have, say, 12 units, you have about a 1% (1/36)(12/36) chance of any given unit dying in any given turn. OH THE DEMONANITY!

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  32. While outraged at first, I've taken time to digest this and as a Daemon player I'm not too concerned.

    Yes, there is possibly an un welcomed random element that we didn't have before. It is indeed possible that we get dicked over on a bad roll. Overall though, the chances are that this table will give a roll that is beneficial to the daemon player. Just as likely that we could be on a losing streak and suddenly (and inexplicably!) the tide of battle can turn in our favour

    An interesting afterthought too, Finally here is a possible incentive to run a mono-god army by reducing your vulnerability to number of 'bad' rolls. The particular number that correlates to your god could be catastrophic though! But this could be negated by the re-roll warp storm warlord ability on the table that was posted above. As an aside, I wouldn't be surprised if Fateweaver got this as with the set warlord abilities for named characters that we saw in the CSM dex


    Even more interesting, Tzeentch and khorne have got the raw deal here - more likely to roll a 6 or 8 than 5 or 9!

    I'm looking forward to a breath of fresh air in this new dex. @ Ian L, you normally have insightful comments buddy, don't get too bummed out about this! It's mostly in our favour!

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    1. We've seen so many weird conflicting posts I've given up stressin, lol. Worst case, I bust out my orks as nurgle infested fungal anomalies. I have like 40 boyz, 10 nobz, some defkoptas and warbosses lying around. Plus, totally awesome conversion opportunities to make a dakka jet :D

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    2. Now that's making lemonade, Ian!...

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  33. Three khorne demon princes with warpglyphs in heavy support would mean 3 chances for extra blood letters every turn? I hope the glyph is one only.

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  34. I don't know man... a 3 on a roll when you only have 1 GD means you're pretty much F'd. This kinda forces you to take multiple HQs, and more Heralds the better. Kinda bummed out by that.

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    1. I just wish you could take more than 4 heralds. A case for multiple detachments!

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    2. It's almost like they're designing the new codices to use double force org at 2k+.....................

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    3. Well, in6th Ed, you're allowed double force orgs at 2K points. It's in the rules. It's the inflexible TOs around the world that have made this an issue. Makes sense to me, and at double force org, Nids will rock your world! I know, I've been on the receiving side of 2 Flyrants + the Swarmlord a number of times... To all those who think Nids suck in 6th Edition, you either don't have Nid players in your meta who know what to do, or you as a Nid player haven't figured out what to do. There are 3 very good Nid players in my group, all with different lists, and they win a lot... Just sayin...

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  35. I gotta say it does seem fluffy to me as in many/most of the stories and novels if there's enough daemons showing up to constitute an army then s*** is getting crazy with weird warp effects from sufficient warp rifts/energy to let them all materialize.

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    1. Exactly! And if Nurgle & Tzeentch both have forces on the same battlefield, they're going to fuck with each other...

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