A new stat line has been posted on the Games Workshop website for Daemon Princes, and wow, is it low. If rumors are true and Daemons are losing Eternal Warrior, all you can do is hope that Daemon Princes get to keep it. T4?


Here is what I have for the current stat line compared to what is currently found on the website.
                 WS   BS   S   T    W   I   A   Ld   Sv
Current       7       5    5    5    4    5   4    10    -
GW Site     7       5    5    4    4    5    4    10   5+


Here is the link so you can see for yourself
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440199a&prodId=prod860026a

This seems odd, so I am not yet sure of what to make of it. I would think that a Daemon Prince should maintain a T5, and perhaps this is a mistake.  If for some reason it was like this before, it was something that I missed.

A huge thanks to Mike for bringing this stat line to our attention.

71 Comments:

  1. Its possible that maybe they are expanding on them and they can be taken in multiple force slots so they need to make sure they aren't too OP. Maybe they can be taken as heavies, elites, FA, and/or HQ slots similar to how many codexes are doing with HQ unlocks these days?

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  2. i would bet on toughness wargear bonus

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  3. i would bet on toughness wargear bonus

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  4. Not tougher than the average marine, makes total sense!
    Sometimes I wonder what GW is thinking when they make such changes. Its not like the current prince is cheap.

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    Replies
    1. so?
      azrael is T4 and cost 212 points
      i don´t see why GW suddenly has to make sence or be logic!

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    2. Azrael is only a glorified marine :P
      Not that I want T4 daemon princes, it could be that these were 'mortals' before ascension meaning a boost from T3 technically, but overall stupid...

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    3. Azrael is chapter master of whole Legion Dark Angels. Would not call him glorified marine...

      I think it is good, T5 with wings for 200 points would be something silly.

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    4. It's 185 points in the CSM codex. What's wrong with T5? Better than AV10...

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  5. new statline also for screamers and flamers of tzeentch!

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    Replies
    1. Those are the same stats they used to have, pre-WD.

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  6. Could just be a typo.. Wouldn't be the first time.

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    Replies
    1. its on other languages as well

      dont agree on that

      besides they changed the old statline, so they made a error changeing it from 5 to x ???

      not likely

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    2. Yes...likely. It's a freaking typo.

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  7. Why worse than chaos space marine daemon prince, surely a daemon prince is a daemon prince

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    Replies
    1. Except that CSM daemon prince had such high WS to reflect centuries of war as a marine. These daemon princes could be non-marines so lower toughness and WS

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  8. A Monstrous Creature with the same Toughness as a Space Marine? That seems mildly ridiculous.
    Even with wargear T bonuses, it'll likely only be +1 with a Mark of Nurgle.

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    Replies
    1. It's been said Marks of Chaos are identical to the ones listed in Codex CSM. So it's unlike Mark of Nurgle will provide +1T. I think such upgrade is included in " Daemon of Nurgle"-rule or in Nurgle Daemonic Gifts.

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    2. Either way, what I'm saying is it's unlikely they'll get more than +1T, which still only puts them at terminator toughness.

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    3. just checked the nurgle prince on the store and its T4 too. does that mean a champion of nurgle actually becomes less tough when he achieves apotheosis? hmmm not much incentive for the poor guy

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    4. What do you mean Harpy is T4, ITs T5 per codex and isnt on thier website anywhere I can find since there isnt a model

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  9. Compare it to the CSM daemon prince. Although I try not to swear, this is a piece of shit compared to that statline.
    The statline they had before was the exact same as the CSM version with 1 less strength. Now it has (if this is true) -3 WS, -1 S, -1 T, -3 I, -1 A, and +1Ld. What the actual fuck, Games Workshop?

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    Replies
    1. Daemons' DP's had base I5.
      The CSM DP is closer to a Bloodthirster in the current codex.

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    2. "Daemons' DP's had base I5."
      So did the old CSM prince, and now they have I8. I'm not sure what you mean by this.

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    3. My question is, why have they only changed his statline? None of the others have been updated, so it is kind of curious. However if he can be taken cheaper and as a 2 per HQ slot then this is alright with me. Otherwise, this makes very little good sense right now. Admittedly we have no idea what kind of wargear he can take, they might be even more customizable this time around.

      Warp forged armor might confer a 2+ armor save and +1 toughness for 25pts for all we know. Maybe they only cost 65 pts base now, too soon to get freaked out.

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  10. Wow, hope that's an error.... it was already bad enough they moved them to HQ.

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    Replies
    1. This. Thanks for reminding me of the move to HQ (18 HQ choices?!).

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    2. As it's been said before, I'm hoping that they do something along the lines of a Royal Court, that allows Heralds to be taken for each squad.

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    3. lol lol lol :D

      bad enough :D
      did you think youre dexes gets better when being BALANCED!!! :D
      this is the same treatment CSM and DAs got

      its the new BALANCE everything trend

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    4. Actually, no. If you look back I'm the guy saying be careful what you wish for, when it comes to a new codex..... I just hope its fun.... I don't need OP. Unfortunatly I have about 10 DP's.

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    5. I'm in the same boat. I just hope they manipulate the FOC significantly enough that people with large numbers of GD's and DP's are completely screwed.

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    6. @ melon
      its pretty much fun for me to one shot DPs with a single ML :D

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    7. To be fair though, flavour of the month weapon wise has been plasma and auto cannons which mean theres no difference between toughness 4 and 5 in wounding. I'm thinking that they'll still have eternal warrior to mitigate instadeath otherwise DP's are simply going to be useless and I'm not sure GW are that daft...

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    8. P.S. I think the whole point is to make them manageable with basic infantry so you'd hope that will be reflected points wise.

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    9. @warlord.... I'm sure it is....lol....would love to get a game in and solve this with dice :)

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  11. Who knows what DP profiles they are using. The WFB WOC DP is off the chain amazing.... crazy GW

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  12. Anyways, even if the given statline is actual one lsited in the codex, they better make the Daemon Prince cheap as hell and also being as customizable as a Chaos Lord.

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  13. So glad DC got a BALANCED dex ;D

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    Replies
    1. I don't think a Daemon Prince that can only take as hard a hit as a normal Space Marine qualifies as balance D:

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    2. y?
      SM ICs that cost 200 points upwards have T4... surelly the prince will be around that cost, so its all ok

      its called a balanced game ;)

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    3. Yes, but they're not hulking monsters made from warp-stuff.
      SM IC's can join squads that keep them safe from at least 5+ wounds in most situations. MC's don't have that luxury, nor should they need it, since they're huge.

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    4. This....also most Space Marine ICs confer abilities to squads or army wide....DPs don't seem to have that either

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    5. should...!!!
      since when is it a should game?

      youre makeing this fluff based

      SM are super human warrior and chapter masters have proven themselves in 1000ends of battles... why do they not get the MC spezial rules?

      just becaus DPs get -1 T its not like they are unplable... flying MCs are still good

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    6. Arguing fluff in these instances is silly and pointless. In fluff, a laser that's powerful enough to destroy a main battle tank wouldn't simply stop moving at it's max range. In fluff, it'd be easier to hit an enemy with a firearm the closer you got. In fluff, terminators don't die to lasguns.

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    7. But grey knight terminators die to medieval spears xD

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  14. Basically a chaos spaz marine daemon prince is a primarch I guess. Ridiculous

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  15. If I recall correctly, a friend of mine told me that the Daemon Prince was T4 a couple of months ago, quoting the GW-homepage. I checked it out and it was indeed T4 back then. I sincerely hope this is the same error, and that GW have not nerfed the Daemon Prince.

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    Replies
    1. This is correct, it has been there for a while. They also never updated the profiles for Screamers and Flamers. As well, if you look at the Nurgle Daemon Prince under the Chaos Space Marine HQ tab, it has the same T4 profile. Ergo, it is clearly a typo, given that the only difference between the old Daemon Prince stat-line for Chaos Daemons and this typo one is -1 Toughness.

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  16. Also per the WD, Plague Bearers definitely lost FNP by default, Heralds buy it back as an option, which means presumably it can be sniped out by challenge. Bleh. Looking like Nurgle won't be very viable on its own, even the epidemius list loses the ability to have a few big hitting units, you get left with two fast tie up options and then slow troops and either a slow monster or a flying monster. No anti-tank, only one unit with assault punch. Its so much worse if you don't run epi, which is my preferred method.

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    1. And we have no idea if his rules will remain the same, not to mention the confusion around the new HQ choices

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    2. What I don't understand is how the hell can he give Death Guard FnP as standard and not Plague Bearers??
      Seriously do not want Kelly anywhere near anything to do with Chaos ever again if this is true.
      Sounds like no consideration for fluff if this is the sort of thing we will be seeing in the dex and when that is one of GW's biggest selling factors, they are walking a very thin rope with this!

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. No one knows anything concrete about the rules yet. Until we see points values, what we know from the White Dwarf means squat (pun intended). If Plaguebearers have lost Feel No Pain, as appears to be the case, they are probably quite a bit cheaper. And as far as 'ruining the fluff' goes, remember that Khorne Daemons were the first ones to have Feel No Pain, not Nurgle Daemons.

      For all we know, Daemon Princes could very well be taken in multiple slots.

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    5. although, in the WD some of you may have noticed that the sould grinder in the bat rep has the mark of tzeentch which can only.mean it can take the other marks too, so you can likely have a soul grinder adding to the tally.

      on a separate but related note, we dont even know how good (or bad) the tally will be.

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    6. I'd really love it if there was a way to play Nurgle without the tallyman, I'm not super into the soul grinder, but maybe I'll pick up a FW Plague Hulk, at least that would look good with the army.

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    7. @jack Yes but it makes a hell of a lot more sense for Murgle to have FnP. FnP is Nurgle! That is the biggest reason people end up joining him, to escape the pain of disease.
      Obviously I am biased but I'm sure many a Nurgle fan will be wondering and cursing him for doing so also if they have.

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  17. Basic rule of thumb for GW is to nerf to high hell what is selling well from previous dex and beef up units that no one has any off.

    *cough* Beasts of Nurgle *cough*

    Money makes the rules.

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  18. As a diehard IG Armoured Company player, this is my reaction to T4 non-EW DP's:
    http://i.imgur.com/cbDBv2R.gif

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  19. That T4 in the statline in the GW website is an ancient error. There's old mentions of it if you google it.

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  20. The stat-line mentioned is NOT new. It has been there for a few months. It is obviously a typo, especially given that (aside from having Strength 5) Chaos Daemon Daemon Princes were identical in terms of base abilities compared to the previous Chaos Space Marine Daemon Prince. Given that the 'Daemon of...' rules are shared between codices, you can bet the Daemon Prince stats are too. That should be the end of that. Not to mention that Flamers, Screamers and the like still have their old stat-lines pre-White Dwarf listed on the website. Again, they are obviously typos.

    And if I am wrong and that stat-line is correct (which I think there's about a 0.1% chance of happening) then obviously they will be far cheaper and more customisable to reflect that. People need to settle down and not jump to conclusions about a codex that isn't even out yet.

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    1. On top of that, people might want to check the Chaos Space Marine HQs on their website. The Nurgle Daemon Prince listed on that page has the same stat-line as the ones for Chaos Daemons; not to mention that the regular Daemon Prince has no stat-line listed, as do quite a few other characters.

      It is a typo. Calm down.

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    2. Hell, they haven't even updated the profiles of the special characters for Chaos Space Marines. Given that they rarely post stat-lines for new units, I think we can mark this one as a typo for sure.

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  21. hey guys, not sure if this has.always been like this, but karanak is now.in the hq page of the daemon section on the gw site. i dought karanak will become an hq, but just wanted to point it out.

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    1. He and Changeling had been listed in HQ previously

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  22. Simply one of the many mistakes, the webmaster at GW has done.

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  23. This can't be real, or else you'd never bring a flying MC.

    Ask yourself, what is the strength of a hit for a grounding test?

    T4 flying MC would be BAD. One lasgun in the eyes and "split". XD Would be hilarious, though.

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  24. Hmmm. Daemon Princes from space marines have a Toughness of 5. Daemon Princes of the Daemon army have Toughness 4. Shrug. Maybe the base Toughness of Daemons is a 3 as the base Toughness of a space marine is a 4; adding 1 by becoming a Daemon Prince gives you those results.

    Either way- I don't care. Daemon Princes will still be present in my games whether or not they have a Toughness of 4 or 5 and whether or not they are HQ or Heavy Support.

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  25. You guys can hardly be suprised by any changes in the Codex/FAW. Lets look at past history.

    Chaos Space Marine Demon princes? buffed in FAQ, then nerfed in codex.

    Carnifex's? Practically nerfed in to oblivion to sell new models

    4th ed mech bad, 5th ed mech good, 5th ed mech sells lots of vehicles, 6th ed, NERF.

    Future predictions:
    Hell Drake will be FAQ'd again to remove 360 degree firing (after all those WAAC netlist players bought 3 for their tournament lists)

    Next IG Codex will remove blob squad ability from Infantry Platoon because of WAAC netlist abuse in tournaments/crying.

    Mutilators not selling well? FAQ to add rampage.

    95% of the decisions GW makes is to boost sales. The other 5% is GW not realizing they could have made MORE money if they had made a different decision (No Space Wolve flyers?? No Blood Angel Storm Talons??)

    Everyone should sit back, relax, get ready for a new flavor of the month codex, and then laugh at all those people that went out and maxed out on creamers anf flamers after the white dwarf mini update because you and I both know, they aint going to make it in to the next codex like that.

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    1. Couldn't have said it better myself. We know nearly nothing about the mechanics of the new codex. If anything, I suspect this one to be a big improvement (character and fun wise) over the previous one. The one thing it seems we can rely on is fast and relevant FAQs. I for one am just grateful that this codex seems to have a lot more options and a lot more color to it.

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