Daemonic Instability is coming. A lot of players are very worried about exactly what daemonic instability will be, and a lot of us, like myself do not know that currently there is daemonic instability on the fantasy side of things. So here is a what I could dig up about how it works currently, so that we can get an idea on maybe how it will be working when the new codex/army book is released.


Daemonic Instability (from the now old Daemons of Chaos Army Book)
1. Calculate combat resolution as normal and roll 2d6
2. Compare the dice roll to the Daemons leadership value, taking into account any modifiers for combat resolution. For each point the unit fails its instability tset by, the unit suffers one additional wound. No saves of any kind are allowed against these wounds.

While I expect that this is not exactly how it will play out in the new books for either Fantasy or 40k, perhaps it will give us an idea of what to expect in 40k. Anything anyone knows and wants to add to this, please do so below.


35 Comments:

  1. Yes this is how it works, but in fantasy combat result is probably the most decisive part of the game (unlike in 40k, where there is more shooting, and many units are fearless. This means that daemonic instability in fantasy is a big boost for daemons, because they lose wounds instead of fleeing and potentially being cut down like most units. It is also a separate rule to 'fearless'. In fantasy, daemons are fearless AND have daemonic instability. The replacement of fearless with daemonic instability in 40k will make daemons significantly worse, but if it comes with a decent points reduction, will make them better overall, I think. This is because daemon units are typically hard-hitting, and can often pick their fights, so it should be quite easy to make sure you win your combats, meaning instability will have limited effect. Totally different matter if instability works in the shooting phase, too, however.

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    1. This is what I am most afraid of with the new codex, what happens from loosing more then 25% during shooting. Nothing, run, or instability?

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    2. Hopefully nothing, like the auto pass panic tests in fantasy which they have. If daemons take instability from shooting then it will require some monumentally powerful rules to off-set it.

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    3. Of what i have gathered, Deamons in 40k are considered Fearless in the shoothing Phase and only make Instability test in CC, when they lose a combat and have at least lost 25% during this phase.

      So on 10 models, if you loose 1 model, you don't test, if you lose 3 or more, you make a test.

      Well thats how i understand it.

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  2. With fantasy daemons, it is exactly as you listed. I imagine it will be very close in 40k. You should be winning most charges anyway, at least I hope with Khorne.

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  3. So we could kill are selves by losing combat because of awful saves. I hope someone posts some information soon because i am bored waiting.

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  4. Would not be surprised to see this effectively be "Fearless Light" for Daemons. This would also readily explain relatively low leadership stats. Whether or not affected by shooting, etc., probably orients around "whenever called upon to take a LD test, loses # of models = to the amount failed by." This would take care of all tests if necessary (i.e., panic from shooting, losing combat, etc.), without simply giving them Fearless.

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  5. Oh, and you only take instability tests if you lose the combat - if you win you're fine.

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  6. I suspect this is the reason that fearless wasn't included in the standard Daemon special rule in the BRB.

    They will be fearless in regards to not needing to take break tests and the like but will not benefit from the ability to stay in losing combats forever with no drawback, it may well work just like old fearless and deal them wounds equal to the amount they lost combat by.

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    1. Well, I honestly think they will be very close or the same as the fantasy daemon rule, where you get a roll on leadership, usually 8 or 7, modified by how many you lost by. How much you fail by determines how many you lose.

      Undead in fantasy have a rule, crumble, that works the other way. You lose by 8, 8 more guys die. No roll.

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    2. All this I would be fine with, if it wasn't for the proliferation of fearless units throughout the other codices. Still, we'll see what the book brings.....

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  7. In fantasy this is now the Unstable rule, Vampires and Tomb Kings have it as well.

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    1. Incorrect, Unstable in fantasy makes you take wounds equal to the amount you lost combat by. Instability makes you take wounds eqaul to the amount you failed the LD test by. Very different.

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    2. Incorrect, Unstable in fantasy makes you take wounds equal to the amount you lost combat by. Instability makes you take wounds eqaul to the amount you failed the LD test by. Very different.

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  8. This seems like it might have the same effect on daemons that the fearless rule had on nids in 5th ed & if so daemons will not want to assault in the wrong places.

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  9. I hated Instability back when I experienced it and I will hate it now. Hopefully we experience a significant points reduction on troops after losing the few advantages they had.

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    1. Every daemon player hated instability back in old days. Would be quite a troll move by Kelly if he has put it back in same as it was.

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  10. Going by wild rumors over on the other boards a few days ago, its said demonic instability won't be anything to do with losing troops in combat like in old days but instead sending troops into reserve on the roll of a 1 in movement phase.

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    1. Is nothing said about it in the report?

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    2. Going into reserve is also a huge nerf as they'll not be able to charge the next turn.

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  11. In the battle report the pyrocaster dies to instability after Lysander kills the other flamers.

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    1. Well there you go... Nice one kelly. Now go write the new Necron codex and give them back phase out please.

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    2. How many other Flamers? If it's less than 5, f*** you, Kelly, I don't want to lose more than 20% of a unit because ...

      Revelation!

      This means that the effects are lessened if the unit size is much larger, therefore forcing us to take larger units to balance out this retarded crap! You just want to sell us a load more models! (well, we didn't see that coming...) But still, if this is for shooting too, daemons will be a swarm army that wipes themselves out if you kill enough.

      Another thought pops into my head - are the models removed randonly determined? I f***ing hate the "randomly determine" rules that are so common nowadays - how do I choose two random models out of a unit of 7? How do playtesters do this sort of thing?

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    3. Random 2 out of 7? Roll a die for each model the highest 2 are chosen, re-roll among ties.

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    4. Where did it say that in the BR? All I can find is where they say "Lysander killed the Pyrocaster and Flamers".

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  12. I'll say this much, SO FAR, if these type of rumors are true then all 3 new codex's are certainly following a similar trend of lesser powered codex's(in comparison to necrons, SWs, GK etc etc), and if they continue to do that with all the codex's throughout 6th so power creep doesn't continue to grow out of control i would be fine with that.

    However if all of a sudden, ward writes the tau, or eldar codex to be far superior then that will be pretty disheartening....

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    1. That is the only plus I am holding out for though chances of a power dex or 2 not creeping in I'd say are pretty slim and will be willing to bet Ward being author of either next or one after. In fact I'd be willing to bet Ward is the author of nids and it will be a power dex.

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    2. Saying that though, this one doesn't even sound balanced. Just sounds like major nerfs and bringing back old rules that everyone hated so far. I know I shouldn't judge yet without seeing it in its entirety but there needs to be some major benefits to counter all the stuff we know already.

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    3. Maybe they looked at tournament results, saw that Daemons were powerful (flamer and screamer spam) and told Kelly to "balance" them.
      Although that doesn't make much sense, because the timescales are too short between the WD and the codex...

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    4. I felt the same way before I read my beloved dark angel codex, and then I saw the rules and mnany units were just bad, overcosted, too fragile. But, if codex power levels keep coming down then maybe that will actually make some of these units(in daemons, DA, and chaos) better than they seem at first glance, at least thats what I am hoping for.

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    5. @shrike If they did that, many people would leave the game. Not everyone is a win at all costs player who only plays screamer/flamer spam lists. Punishing all units because of 2 OP units is just bad and daemons were only just about viable in non competitive play before they updated the screamer and flamer rules anyway.
      CSM didn't get worse in fact IMO they got a lot better. DA I don't really know but these rules so far do not give me hope at all.

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  13. If the instability rule is like the fantasy ruling, I'm betting to see daemons only as filler/psychic buffs for other armies if at all. A 15 man bloodletter squad at a points reduction of 12 is 180 points. Killing 4-6 with bolter fire isn't hard and than lose another on average of 3 to a instability test. That's half a squad!!!IMHO it's worse than a break test as you may still rally on just a break. An assault army that is afraid to assault( 1 of 5 units is the only shooting in our troops choice)?? Also lets not forget they have the take a fear test when assaulting a MC as well too.

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  14. I've had a Dark Angle army for about four yr's now and they nerfed the command squads a lot .and the terminators have gotten more expensive, the rest of the army got cheaper,so if you ran a mixed army it balanced out.I also have a much larger Demon army and both were shelved for 5th.The Demons were a surprise army and once my opponent learned how they played, I lost, and wile I didn't spam I bought everything else.

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  15. I've had a Dark Angle army for about four yr's now and they nerfed the command squads a lot .and the terminators have gotten more expensive, the rest of the army got cheaper,so if you ran a mixed army it balanced out.I also have a much larger Demon army and both were shelved for 5th.The Demons were a surprise army and once my opponent learned how they played, I lost, and wile I didn't spam I bought everything else.

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