There has been a lot of talk about what is going to happen when it comes down to Chaos Daemons and the new codex that is expected very soon. This morning we have a discussion about what is expected from Tastytaste, who has been very accurate over time with what he posts regarding rumors.


In this group, one of the biggest topics is Daemons losing Fearless and Eternal Warrior. This has been a quiet theme running for awhile, and not the first time we have heard this, but now with it all together perhaps it can get the conversation moving.

The next big thing listed here is...... No more Demonic Assault. This means going back to a standard deployment. As far as I am concerned, I have never really settled with the idea of a complete deep striking army the way daemons currently do it, so this for me is a good thing, but I am probably not in the majority here.

So please remember that this is a part rumor, part what Tastytaste expects (he has some well placed sources for information regarding what may or may not be coming out.)

via TastyTaste from Blood of Kittens
I am one to think that they aren't coming out just yet, but maybe with the April release. With rules rumors being hard to come by let us look at some obvious ones right in front us and others not so much.

As most people realize Daemons will lose both Fearless and Eternal Warrior replaced with 5+ invulnerable and Fear. Eternal Warrior never really made sense in the grand scheme of things anyway because wouldn't Force Weapons be perfect to "banish" Daemons back to the War? As for Fearless, see a return of "instability" which is going to be close to 5th edition Fearless.

As I stated in a previous rumor GW is hell-bent on having each army hate something. Daemons are no different they just seem to hate themselves now.

Taking a look at the Chaos Space Marine and Warriors of Chaos books you can see where this is going. Each Chaos God units will hate a certain other god. This leads into the next rules change right in front of us. Depending on the Daemon's God it will determine the special abilities they get.

Khorne: Furious Charge

Slaanesh: Rending, Run bonus, Fleet

Tzeentch: Re-roll 1s for saves

Nurgle: Slow & Purposeful, Shrouded

Other changes that will surely happen...

Flamers and Screamers are getting nerfed, but the real big change will be Deamons having standard Deployment rules: no more Daemonic Assault.

The big reason Deamons were fast tracked has to do with Alessio Cavatore. Chatting with a few inside GW there has been an everything Alessio purge, and Daemons are the last big chunk of Alessio material left. Yeah, I know it sounds kinda petty, but it was a major impetus to get Daemons done. Daemons will still primarily be an assault based army, but that is the nature of the models having to be used both for Fantasy and 40k. That means Daemons will rely on speed to get across the board. Expect Chariots, warp portals, beasts, cavalry, jump troops to help with all this. Then there is cover saves Nurgle is the first piece of the puzzle, but just like certain Dark Angel things expect a "Clouds of Flies" to provide bonuses to cover saves all around. Chaos Space Marines and Deamons ICs will be able to join each other as long as their gods match up.

Things have been spares from all rumor mongers, but a lot has to do with GW "renewed" lock down; translated GW rumor monger wack'a'mole.

45 Comments:

  1. Even more rumour lockdown? That's no fun!

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    1. yeah
      GW will get rid of playtesting stuff soon ;)
      its a way to make more dexes of the DA kind :D

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  2. I can't work out if this is a list of things that are 'expected' to happen, or an actual rumour set. He says: "Other changes that will surely happen". Not dissing the dude, but just so I'm clear what I'm reading.

    Also, what's the deal with Alessio Cavatore? I've recently returned to the hobby after a few years, but back in the day he was the golden boy.

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    1. That's how TastyTaste rolls, he's very opinionated about what he writes and isn't afraid to state things with certainty. Has an excellent blog and definitely good content, but you should keep that in mind when reading his stuff.

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  3. If only we could get a Matt Ward purge...

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  4. EW being removed makes sense. Thematically, losing fearless for an instability rule like in fantasy also makes since, not that I like it from a game perspective. But losing Daemonic assault? That seems out there since it is such a major change from the current codex. I figured they would tweak it but not remove it. Unless bloodletters get something to help them get across the board faster, they are going to be even more useless.

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    1. Imagine plague bearers, not only do they have to walk but they're slow and purposeful. I really don't know how GW can make a nurgle list viable without at least leaving them the ability to deepstrike in.

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    2. The rumor mentions to expect chariots, warp portals, fleet beasts, all sorts of ways to move troops to the frontlines speedily. Though it's still rumor til it's fact, so we'll have to wait and see what the codex brings.

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    3. One of the khorne chariot rumours was a transport!

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    4. Losing EW does not make sense at all from a fluff perspective. Daemons cannot die. They are just returned back into the warp thus making them ever living or eternal warriors.. Unless of course you can pull a Rumpelstiltskin on them but that rarely ever happens.
      But then I'm peeing in the wind with this one. GW have already nuked what a daemon is supposed to be with the universal daemon rule that I am willing to bet will be standard for all daemons with the new dex.

      Don't even get me started on losing fearless..

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    5. Sorry I meant that Thematically it made sense for them to lose fearless in favor of an instability rule similar to fantasy. They don't run but just disappear back into the warp. I meant EW made sense when compared to recent releases. Almost nothing has Eternal warrior anymore.

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    6. Deamons may not die, but in game a wound means a men's body were hurt and can't fight anymore. So do Deamons, their body may be destroyed by a single laser shot. And suffer such wound a warrior still fight is an eternal warrior, and such kind should be very rare.
      Bagging another body in warp from their lord to fight another war in material is not eternal at all.

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  5. Alessio is with Warlord Games now.

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  6. I don't care so much about these changes as whether the Tallyman cheese will continue to exists.

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    1. I don't think its cheese for the chosen herald of nurgle to buff other nurgle units, especially considering how mediocre the entirely assault based nurgle units (excepting the daemon prince of course) in the daemons book are.

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    2. You obviously haven't played against it when nurgle marked CSM units get involved...

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    3. Actually I have and used it too.....epi is soooo easy to kill its not even funny, how is it cheeses? Works well 1 out of three times in my games....uterly usless in the other two. Especially when he doesn't arrive until turn three or four.

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  7. So no Daemons in Feb?

    I do find it strange that the tiny bump Flamers and Screamers got will be pushed backward. It makes no sense.

    As for no daemonic assault, without some method of shifting troops around every daemon infantry unit is, err, naff. No real shooting, no transports they really struggle.

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    1. It has been rumored for a long time now we would be seeing daemons in Feb but only as preorder. I think it was Hastings who said that many months ago now and looks like they are spot on.

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  8. Not going to get all bent out of shape yet, when the codex drops I will review it in its entirety and then decide if I like it or not. Until then its fun to "suppose".

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    1. That's pretty much how I'm feeling on it. I saw the article by TT last night and have a hard time accepting it as 'rumor' since it's all from an "I expect" and "Makes sense" perspective.

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  9. I think they'll be up for pre-order on 23rd Feb judging by the new White Dwarf Daily post...

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    1. Awesome, well spotted! This teaser video can't be anything other than daemons.

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  10. White Dwarf Daily post...Daemons?

    Also an official FAQ from Forge World on thier Facebook page.

    Deep Strike remains on any Flyers that have Dppe Strike if they are Forge World.

    And No Storm Eagle Assault Gunships for Blood Angels. Cos' the Mechanicum holds a Grudge apparently...
    (dont know if this applies to Legion ones :P)

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    1. Were you being sarcastic about that Mechanicum grudge? Because they do actually have beef with the blood angels!

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  11. I always liked daemonic assault for the daemons. Thought it might be cool to give them shroud or +1 invulnerable on the turn they arrive as when they materialize from the warp being distorted and like an apparition. Giving them some survivability and incentive to go for cover since they can not assault.

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  12. Wonder what the blood angels will get in the future to offset lack of said storm eagle? Not so sure about these rumours. As mentioned above if they can't get across the board quickly in some way or have done way of soaking up fire then their just gona get torn to pieces.

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  13. "The big reason Deamons were fast tracked has to do with Alessio Cavatore. Chatting with a few inside GW there has been an everything Alessio purge, and Daemons are the last big chunk of Alessio material left."

    WRONG.

    Eldar is also Alessio's work.

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    1. Hmmmm...my Eldar codex says " by Phil Kelly"

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    2. I spoke with Phil Kelly at the Chicago's Gamesday and he told me that he is NOT writing the Eldar codex, but that it is in "very capable hands".

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    3. "Very capable hands"? That must mean our Spiritual Liege.

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    4. There are more than two writers at GW :P

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    5. But after 5th edition you wouldn't think so.

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  14. I hope we'll get better saves. A 5+ invulnerable is pretty awful for a footslogging army.

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  15. I really hope that daemon princes - or at least greater daemons - retain/gain EW. The CSM dex is an example of how badly losing EW hurts your super expensive daemon prince.

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    1. Agreed GD and DPs need that to be competitive.... too much crap causes ID now and days

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  16. Alessio purge makes sense from a game perspective some of the stuff he wrote makes a Matt Ward dex seem weak by comparison, Skaven book and Deamons I'm looking at you. If it's because he's back in the business it's just stupid and petty.

    Eternal warrior for Deamons was dumb in the first place, fearless meh who cares.

    Deamonic assault was awful from a game play perspective. It made going first a huge disadvantage if you were playing against them, you basically lost half a turn. If they made it work differently, like half your army deep strikes before either sides turn or something it would be ok, other wise i'm all for standard deployment.

    Screamer and Flamer nerf has been a long time coming, even the Deamon players I know say they are way OP for their cost.

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    1. Skaven was Jeremy Vetock, same guy who wrote the new DA dex.

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    2. If they lose eternal warrior and fearless then that will be enough of a nerf to make them kinda shitty imo.

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    3. The skaven book I was referring to was the 6th ed, which also was the one that caused me to quit WHFB.

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  17. As a daemon player I've never liked the Daemon Assault rules. It either was really messy or gave me a huge advantage over my opponent (which was nearly 80% of the time). I've shelved my Nurgle/Slaanesh army mostly because of the Daemonic Assault rule. I like fair competive gaming and currently the Daemonic army didn't provide that- I like to lose as much as I like to win.

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  18. I don't think daemonic assault is going anywhere. Its iconic.

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