There are lots of daemon rules here, and while some duplicate, there is a ton more here to digest. It seems a lot of work into these rules, and even from a fluff perspective, they are looking pretty tight from first glance. For example a Keeper of Secrets getting preferred enemy against Eldar and Dark Eldar.

Enjoy, and know that we are only a few days out now from getting the codex in hand.

via Raziel on thanks to Drew for sending in the latest.
herald of tzeentch
ws 3 bs 4 s 3 t 3 lp 2 i 3 a 2 ld 8
psyker level 1. prophecy and change as powers.
may take up to 30 points in daemonic gifts.
psyker levels up to 3 for 25 points each.
take up to three presences.
presence of tranmorification 10 points ( for each dead horror you place d3 blue horror markers instead of 1)
presence of change 20 points you roll a d6 at the start of each turn. your model and his unit gain the strength of the d6 roll.
presence of conjuration: 25 points +1 strength on the power of psychic powers by the model and his unit.
may take a disk of tzeentch 25 points
chariot of tzeentch 50 pts

psychic powers of tzeentch:
24" s 5 ap 4 assault 2d6, warpflames, soulfire. 1 warpcharge. for each additional warpcharge you gain a additional d6

1-2 24" S d6 +1 assault 1 3" explosive, warpflames

3-4 24" beam s d6+4 ap 2 assault 1 warpflames

5-6 witchfire: 18" s d6+4 ap 1 assault 1 explosive 3" warpflames.

horros can only cast change dicipline, not divination.

daemonprinces can take
warpsmithed armor with a 3+ armorsave for 20 points. they can be made heavy support with the corresponding greater deamon (and charakter GD) fromt he same god.

bs 0 12/12/10 3 hullpoints.
if the bloodthrone causes at least one hammer of wrath wound he regains a hullpoint on a 4+

a herald on a bloodthrone brings his presence to every khorne unit within 6" instead of only the unit he is in.

open topped transport but can only carry the herald

khorne heralds:
ws 7 bs 7 s 5 t 4 w 2 i 6 a 3 ld 6 sv 6+
30 points into gifts
lesser presence of stubborness (may misstranlate here): 10 points the model and his unit have adamantium will
presence of rage : 20 points the model and his unit gain rage
presence of wrath: 25 points the model and his unit got hatred (everything!)
may take a juggernaught 45 points or a
bloodthrone for 75 points

Great Unclean One
WS 6 BS 3 S 6 T 7 W 6 I 4 A 5 LD 9
psyker level 1
poison (4+)
cann roll for pestilence and biomancy. may be upgraded up to psyker level 3 for 25 pts per level.
may take 50 points of lesser, mighty and exhalted gifts.

ws 3 bs 0 s 4 t 3 w 1 i 4 a 1 ld 2 (yeah, wut...)
infantry with jumpmodule (like crisis) i cant really see the points on my image but its 6 per puiece i think
they all be upgraded to khorne/nurlge/slaanesh/tzeentch

ws 10 bs 10 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 9 a 6 ld 9 Sv 3+
axe of khorne (instantdeath on 6s)
whip of khorne ( 12" s 6 ds 2 assault 1)
may take up to 50 points in daemonic gifts.

bloodletters are 10 points per model. got hellblades wich are ap 3.
WS 5 bs 5 s 4 t 3(yeah...) w 1 i 4 a 1 ld 7 sv 6+
one may be a hellfighter with the possibility to get up to 20 points in rewards.

one may take instrument of chaos 10 points, (if you deepstrike this unit you may nominate another unit of the same god to deepstrike right after them without reserve roll. in addition the warpstrom table roll of the same god wich wipes on the opposing god you may reroll the d6 if the unit is hit.

one may take ikon of chaos 10 points and may (still a homer but only works for units fo the same god) upgrade that for banner of blood for 10 points. ( the unit may once per game assault 6"+d6 instead of 2d6.

lesser gift table:
1 : burning blood. each time you take a unsaved wound the enemy that caused the wound suffers d3 s 4 hits with ds 5. no cover saves allowed. those wounds count towards the combat result

2. cleaving strike: each hit on a 6 causes the daemon to strike with double strength (max 10)

3. corrosive breath : flame : s 5 ap 5 assault 1 armorbane

4. spellbreaker: the daemon got the rule adamantium will

5. warpbreath: 18" s 8 ap 4 assault 1 soulblaze

6 warpstalker : the daemon and his unit get +1 on reserve rolls..

you may also decide to change your roll for the
0: magical weapon. the daemon gains a aetherblade (s user ap 2, mastercrafted specialist weapon).
daemons of khorne may take a bloodaxe ( s user ap 2 instand death on 6's specialist weapon),
daemons of tzeentch a stave of change (s+2 ap 4, concussive, specialist weapon. warpcurse: a model slain by the user of this weapon explodes and hits every unit within 6" inculding the user of the stave for d6 s 5 ap - hits) ,
daemons of nurgle a mace of pestilence (s+1 ap - specialist weapon, disease: for each unsaved wound the model has to make a toughness check or suffer another wound without armor/coversaves)

daemons of slaanesh a ghostreaver sword. ( s user ap 5 rending, specialist weapon, ghostreaver: same as the nurgle one but initiative test)

greater gits :
1: corpulence : the daemon got +1 toughness and the special rule it will not die

2. daemonic toughness the daemon got the special rule feel no pain (4+)

3. dark blessing: the daemon may reroll failed invul saves

4 hellfiregaze : 18" s 8 ap 1 assault 1 lance

5 touch of decay the close combat attacks of the daemon got armorbane and lifebane

6 unbreakable skin, the daemon gets a 3+ armor save.

and the 0 if you decide for it:

mighty magical weapon:
you gain a mighty aetherblade (s +1 ap 2 mastercrafted, specialist weapon

daemons of khorne may take a bloodblade: (s user ap 2, specialist weapon, unwieldly, bloodthirst: the wielder gains the special rule rampage
daemons of tzeentch may take the mutating warpblade (s user ap 3, specialist weapon, warpmutation: a character slain with with weapon becomes a chaos spawn on a 2+
daemons of nurgle may take pestielnce sword (s user ap - poison 4+ instand death. specialist weapon, rustbreath: every armor pen throw of 6 is automatically a glancing hit if it wouldnt be a penetrate allready)
daemons of slaanesh may take whip of despair ( 12" s user ap - assault 2w6)

i post the blue horror part on the coming section of exhalted gifts

exaulted gifts
1: blessed twice: roll twice again on this chart. reroll another 1. xou apply both results without further costs

2. riftbringer: at the end of close combat phase in wich the daemon caused at least 1 unsaved wound you roll 2w6 and add 1 for each 3 unasved wounds the daemon caused. is the sum is 9 or higher a new unit of daemons will be created like the warpstorm table result number 12

3 souleater: at the end of the close combat phase, if the daemon caused at least one unsaved wound you roll a d6. on a 2+ the daemon gains another lifepoint (and may go up to 10 lifepoints)

4. unholy rage : the daemon gains the special rules rampage and rage

5. warpflame. the first time this daemon is slain dont remove him from the game but take him from the table instead. the daemon may come back from reserve with 1 wound remaining.

6. winds of chaos : 24" s 2w6 ap 4 assault 1 3" explosiv. fluktuation : roll the strenght after caling the target, if its 11 or 12 its counting as s10 but is a 5" blast instead of 3"

and the 0 again:
the daemon may take a hellforged artifact of his choise from the armory.. note that these are uniqe and only once taken:

eternal blade: s +1 ap - specialist weapon, honorseeker: at the beginning of the assault phase in wich the wielder is bound to roll a d3. the result will be granted to the wielders WS, initiative and attacks.

grimoire of true names: you may use it at any time in your movement phase. the target hast to be within 24" and at least one model with the special rule daemon has to be within the unit.
is the unit a enemy it has -1 on reserve rolls. is the unit a friendly unit roll a d6. on a 1-2 the all models in the unit (except the user) with the special rule daemon suffer -1 on the reserve rolls. if you roll a 3+ all models with the rule daemon have +2 on their invulnerable saves until your next turn.

portalglyph: may be used once per game. you may place it in the movement phase (does not matter when) place a 3" blast within 12" around the user. and let it scatter 4d6. if the marker goes off the board or cannot be placed it will move the distance so it can be placed (droppod) after that its a vehicle with the following profile : bs 0 12/12/12 hp 1

after placing the portalglyph you roll a d6 at the end of your movement phase. on a 4+ a new unit of d6 daemons (of your choisem horrors, daemonettes, plaguebearers or bloodletters) the unit got no upgrades but counts as a normal unit of its type.

the stone of the damned: at the beginning of the assault phase. every enemy charactermodels that are not daemons have to make a ld test. if it passes, nothing happens. if it loses. the model has -d6 on his ld value. if a model goes below 0 this way. it gets removed isntantly without saves allowed.
so for blue horrors: if a pink horror is slain place a blue horror marker.. at initiative 1 the blue horror attacks causing the enemy unit to suffer one s2 hit with ap -

all deamons still got a 5+ invul, this counts also for every vehicle.

psychic powers of nurgle:
witchfire : flame s - ap 3 assault 1 poison 4+

1-2 witchfire, 12" s 1 ap 2 assault 1 5" blast 4+ poison.

3-4 blessing, the psyker gains at the beginning of each assault phase a d3. all enemys in base contact have the score reduced on their WS and initiative

5-6 nova: every enemy within 12" has to do a toughness test or suffer a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the unit loses a model it has to do another toughness check and so on and so on.

slaanesh psychic powers:
primary : beam ; 24" s 6 ap - rending assault 1

1-2 malediction, a enemy within 18" has -5 initiative and can not use the special rule counter attack nor can it overwatch

24" focused witchfire. enemy has to do a leaderchip tests or takes a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the model dies you nominate another random model in the unit. and so on and so on....

5-6 : nova : 12" every enemy has to roll 2w6 on and take the ld of the result. for every point remaining on this roll the unit suffers a wound without armor or cover saves allowed. after that the units have to do a pinning test-

ws 10 bs 10 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 10 a 6 ld 9 sv 3+
every unit (friend and foe) within 12" have rage and hatred (everything!)
got a s 5 ap - flamer...
his weapons
murder : s user ap 2 lifebane
deathstrike s user ap 2 armorbane
his warlord trait is the all attacks cause isntant death.

ws 9 bs 9 s 5 t 4 w 2 i 9 a 4 ld 8 sv3+
always has to accsept and issue challenges.
got eternal warrior and his sword is
s user ap 3 soulblaze and kills on 6's
comes with the adamant will presence.
may take a jugger for 45 points. he costs 100 points

ws 7 bs 0 s 5 t 5 w 3 i 6 a 4 ld 6 sv 6+
before placing the armys on the board nominate his prey(character). as long as this model is alive karanak rerolls all to hit and to wound rolls against the prey and its unit

got the rage presence from the start.

nurgle herald : ws 5 bs 5 t 5 w 2 i 4 a 3 ld 8
may take up to 30 points in gifts.
may be psyker up to level 2 for 25 points each.
may take presence of virulence: 10 points the model and its unit got poison 2+
presence of fertility 20 points the model and its unit gain feel no pain.
presence of affliction. 25 points. the model and his unit gains for every 6 on the enemys to hit rolls instantly attack with s4 ap - and poison 4+ (next to the normal attacks)

can still take this throne thingie, forgot the name in english. 45 points
gains +2 w +1 a and is bulky.

juggernaught ; +1 t +1 w + 1 a and becomes cavalery.

disk of tzeentch: +1 a and jetbike

hose of slaanesh: +1 a and outflanking and acute senses. also becomes cavalery

herald of slaanesh:
ws 7 bs 6 s 4 t 3 w 2 i 7 a 4 LD 8
same psyker upgrades as nurgle aswell as gifts..

presence same costs.. here are the tiers:

presence of grace : model and unit gains move through cover
presence of agility (30pts) the model and its unit have +5 on its initiative (yes you read that right)
presence of seduction. the model and its unit may reroll to hit rolls in close combat. the user always has to accept challenges or issue them. but the user of the presence decides wich character the enemy takes for the challenge.

slanesh horse. 15
chariot 30
exhalted chariot 80

bloodcrushers are:
WS 5 bs 5 s 5 t 4 w 3 i 4 a 4 ld 7 6+
hellblades. and they cost 5 points more then currently.

one may become a bloodhunter for 5 points gaining 1 attack and can take up to 20 points in gifts.
may take instrument, icon and banner.

chariot of tzeentch:
10/10/10 all around 3 p
flamer on the inside got 3 lp otherwise same profile as the rest.
my take the blue horror upgrade 10 pts (-1 ld for every enemy within 6".
can take up to 20 pts in gifts

open topped, fast, skimmer, chariot.

horrors got one. 2 at unit strength 11-15 and 3 at 16-20. they generate psychic powers at the start of the game like normal psykers but can only roll on tzeentch lore.

the mask
ws 7 bs 6 s 4 t 3 w 2 i 7 a ld 8 may take up to hit and run. unnatural reflexes (may reroll failed invul saves)
eternal dance: at the beginning of the shooting phase you decide for wich dance she makes against a single non vehicle unit within 12"

dance of binding: the enemy has -5 WS (minimum 1) can only move d3" only d3" run and only d3" assault. also the unit can only fall back d3"

dance of death: the unit suffers as many strength 1 hits as models are in the unit. these hits have AP 2 and igore cover.

dance of dreaming: the target has -5 bs and cannot overwatch. until the next turn of the mask.

daemonettes: ws 5 bs 4 s 3 t 3 w 1 i 5 a 2 ld 7
no longer rending.

horror, daemonette and plaquebearer 9 pts
bloodletter 10

ws 3 bs 3 s 4 t 4 w 1 i 2 a 1 ld 7
daemon of nurgle so really they are shrouded... but no fnp nor t 5

horror ws 3 bs 3 s 3 t 3 w 1 i 3 a 1 ld 7
for psychic tests they add +3 to the ld

in additon they have access to the other spells of lore of tzeentch, you roll for them like you do with psykers. making them psyker level 3 gives great benefit.

kugath: ws 6 bs 3 s 6 t7 w 7 i 4 a 6 ld 9

still got his 4+ pieplate but its ap 3 now.
psyker level 1
and can heal 1 w per turn on a single unit of nurglings...

soulgrinder is pts + upgrade to god needed. comes with close combat weapon and the harvester (already posted) can get the flamer (wich is now torrent) for 20, phlegm for 30 and tounge for 25 points

screamers are the same. though they reroll invul saves of 1 now.

flamers got hit hard.. the flamer is now s4 ds 4 and causes warpflame wich basically causes the enemy to force a toughness check after wounds have been caused. if he fails he suffers d3 additional wounds without armor or cover allowed. if he makes the test he gains 6+ feel no pain or if the unit already got feel no pain it becomes better by 1.. they cost the same as of the update.

Lord of Change. ws 6 bs 6 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 6 a 5 ld 9 and 5+ invul (like every other daemon)
starts as psyker level 2. can get a additional level for the same price as others. can roll on tzeentch lore and divination. can take up to 50 points in gifts.

kairos: 33 points cheaper now
ws 1 bs 6 s 5 t 5 w 5 i 2 a 1 ld 9 4+ invul. can reroll a single dice per turn.
psyker level 4. one head knows all of tzeentch +1 roll on pyromancy and prophecy, the other one knows all tzeentch and 1 roll on telepathy and biomancy you have to decide wich head is used at the start of every turn.

no longer the make a ld or dissapear after getting wounded.but no reroll bubble aswell.

flesh hounds 
ws 5 bs 0 s 4 t 4 w 2 i 4 a 2 ld 7 sv 6+/5++
they are scouts and have the colar of khorne: +2 on deny the witch rolls.

horrors can for additional 20 points get the banner of curse... wich once per game causes a additional 2d6 s 4 ds - hits to any unit hit.

nurgle banner is :once per game all models in the unit have poisoned weapons 2+

slanesh: every enemy in base contact with the banner has -3 ws

ah yeah for plague drones.. 42 pts a model.. can get the 3+ poison for 5 pts per model. 9 max.. can also get instant death attacks for 5+ per model... i would suggest get the instant death and the banner for 20 points.... 2+ poison for a single turn is enough against the hardest of foes with instant death in the mix.

keeper of secrets: ws 9 bs 6 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 1 a 6 ld 9.
psyker level 1, prefered enemy eldar/dark eldar.

can get psyker level up to 3 for same costs as everyone else. and can take up to 50 pts in gifts.

btw greater deamon of khorne with 30 pts gifts getting him the eternal blade (+d3 attacks, initiative and WS and +1 strength) is pretty interesting...comes with 7 attacks base (for beeing with 2 specialist weapons) 280 points
9-11 attacks with strength 8 on the charge. might be usefull

nurglings ..
ws 3 bs 3 s 3 t3 w 4 i3 a 4 ld 7
they are now infiltrators.

farewell guys and dont forget tzeentch daemon princes with a stave. psyker level and so on.. also worth noticing... ah tehy roll on the gods psyhic lore aswell als telepathy, bionmancy and telekinese


  1. It's a good thing to see so much information about the upcoming 40k codex. Imo Slaanesh has the greatest improvements.. they should be as they belong to the less appealing ones from the last codex.

  2. Bloodthirster profile changes daily :(

    1. Might as well call it Bloodthirster of Change, since it's so random it's stats changes on daily basis :p



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  3. Well Kairos get needed to f***, but I like most of what I see now.

    1. *nerfed
      Tzeentch evidently made the iPod autocorrect.
      BTW, there is a picture out there of the German roster sheet for 40k. I'll email it to Natfka.

    2. Sent. :)
      Now there shall be no more confusion!

    3. The one up there is correct, BTW.

    4. If you send it my way I'll post it too.

    5. Lord Of Change 230 Points
      WS 6, BS 6, S 6, T 6, W5, I 6, A 5, LD 9, Sav -
      FMC, Character
      Daemon Of Tzeentch
      Daemonic Instability
      Psyker Level 2
      Deep Strike
      May take Psykic powers from Divination and Tzeentch
      May be upgraded to a Level 3 Psyker for 25 Points
      May take up to 50 points of Demonic Gifts
      Minor Gift 10 points each
      Major Gift 20 Points each
      Exalted Gift 30 Points each

      Lord of Fate: Deamon Princes of Tzeetch from this Codex are Heavy Support. (Note by me: It even works as Allies as there is no other restriction listed)

    6. Got the link!
      Unfortunately, it's in German, but you should be able to work out most of it.

  4. Bloodletters 1 attack base. ¿Lol que?

  5. 10pts for a model that has Ap3 attacks at S4 I4 is pretty good in my book

    1. and one model in the unit can get for 15 points a AP 2 weapon

    2. Not to mention when putting them with a herald.. Watch the blood flow!

    3. I think you could get one for 10 points even, as the gifts are rumoured to be 10/20/30.

    4. Just weak that the Bloodthirster only comes with a 3+/5++.

    5. only the "champion" can take a gift. the champion upgrade is 5 points + 10 points for the cheapest gift.

      got the book on my lap and can confirm all rumours there.. posted some of them aswell yesterday (many of those are direct copy & pasta of a thread on /tg/ i made yesterday.

    6. Why? He's a flying MC who is going to strike first and wreck nearly anything he gets into combat with.

      The gifts and such can also make him a little stronger. I don't think he's weak at all.

    7. Souba are heralds 2 for 1 or 4 for 1? I've heard both and am very curious.

    8. 4 heralds per HQ slot.. you may only have 4 heralds per primary detatchmend.

    9. So does this mean you can have either a DP or GD along with 4 Heralds? If so then the WD list does make sense

    10. yes it does work that way. for 2000+ points you take 2 GD/daemonprinces and 8 heralds.

      note you can also play a greater daemon and use daemon princes of the same god as heavy support..

      and no the rumour about flying daemonprinces beeing fast attack is false.

    11. Souba - Is the Masque and IC? Not Character, but does it have the IC special rule?

    12. it's a good thing to have 4 heralds taking 1 slot. Reading the leaked info it shows Heralds playing a big part in a CD army. It would be too weird to limit their numbers (if 2 counts for 1 slot) just by taking a GD.

    13. Souba you have made me a very happy man. Now everything seems far more viable. Bloodletters and bloodcrusher will become uber killy with a good herald. Also putting a herald on a bloodthrone could be very good for mono-Khorne lists. The fact that I can take 8 at 2000pts+ is just astounding. That is enough to pretty much bolster every unit in the army.
      Although I am curious about why a nurgle herald cannot ride a plague drone. That would make them awesome! Oh...maybe that's why.

    14. At t3 5++, they won't get anywhere near combat.

    15. I happen to agree with you here vonevilstein. Your going to either have to use a load of cover to your advantage or dangle some nasty units so they get across the board safely.

      It is possible but will take work to get it right.

  6. "daemonettes: ws 5 bs 4 s 3 t 3 w 1 i 5 a 2 ld 7
    no longer rending"

    Not actually true as far as I am aware. They are still Daemons of Slaneesh, which gives rending.

    1. Yes the same guy later corrected that and said they will still have rending because daemons of slaanesh rule.

  7. I'm not a fan of the general weakening of the daemons even thought the points cost drops make them more than playable, I just like my daemons to be tough, they are daemons after all.

    I like the upgrade tables, I can see all greater daemons taking two greater giftS just to get a bit more survivability as at base they are made of paper, admittedly it's T6 paper ;-)

    Tzeentch looks fun, would like to know if daemons have any special rules to get around perils, if they don't games will be really short against Farseers.

  8. I find this hard to believe, I cant see why Phil Kelly would say the keeper of secrets had an amazing profile and then reduce the initiative from 10 to 1.

    And some of these rules look like they came from fantasy. I can't imagine skull taker being that good for that little cost. To have initiative 9 and that stat line is amazing - very sceptical.

    & blood letters with AP3 weapons for 10 points sound to good to be true, either they are going to die in droves or someone is making crap up.

    1. 2 HQs have I10, Skarbrand and the Keeper of Secrets, so don't worry.

    2. skulltaker however nolonger has rending and only instakills on 6's.. his weapon is ap 3.

      skullcannon of khorne makes attackers assaulting the target the cannon shot at having assault grenades.

    3. Skulltaker that good?, are you on crack or something?


      New Dex, No Rending and only Insta-Gib on 6's...

      And AP3 Weapon?...really?...

      So we end up with a Dueliste who can't freakin win a Duel against a Termi Captain..., forget about special Chars...

      And 10pts Letters with AP3 is too good, they are T3 Now!!!

      And don't start me on Crushers..., if they at least where like 20pts per model and you could take 16 of them, then that would still be somekinda of maybe, been able to be considered nice, but for 45 pts a model T4 and no 3+ save anymore, Go fuck yourself Kelly an go back to your beloved Eldars fagots...

      I'm in such an infuriated state right now i could really kill someone of sheer anger...

    4. welcome to a awesome balanced codex if you would like a power gamer army go buy my Necrons on Ebay :D

    5. Yeah, thats not getting old. I get the feeling you wouldn't know what balance was even if you rowed a canoe for a living. We take the same stuff, minus the Flamers and HQ, add Soul Grinders and Daemonettes and Heralds. WAAC is more obvious in this codex than any other 6th edition codex out thus far.

  9. The Masque's dances... so strong!

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  11. Souba, what are the weapons for the new Tz Chariot? There's quite a few rumors going around and I want to know what weapons it has.

  12. both weapons got the warpflame rule. so not so good...

    18" s 9 ap 2 assault d3
    and flamer with s 5 ap 3 torrent

    1. Does the Masque have the Indepedent Character special rule?

    2. Oh, and does she have any unique Locci like the other named Heralds?

    3. Raziel said the masque can't join units.

    4. So all that nonsense about them 'reliably' killing a landraider was just that?

      I hate assault dX anything weapons. It's always a 1. May as well say heavy 1. Then you'll miss from BS4, so in effect you need a 3 to hit, and a 5 to glance. So, another useless weapon. Flamers (unless they too have been buggered up) are cheaper and better at the job.

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    1. Chain of events:
      She DS's down and dances
      Your opponent goes what?
      She dies horribly next turn
      75 points well-spent?
      Dat T3 5+ re-rollable

    2. one trick pony. just like the old book.

    3. If you DS her in alone then yes that's what will happen. For a unit like the Masque to perform well she needs to be supported by the rest of the army.

    4. its hard to support a unit that is one missle launcher away from getting torn to pieces. not only that a multilaser is enough already.

    5. If you make the rest of your army enough of a threat your opponent may not even have time to focus the extra firepower on killing the Masque. Units like her work to create varying threats throughout the field and to unnerve your opponent. People are going to gripe about Phil Kelly, but remember 5th when Ward deliberately power-creeped each of his subsequent books. Do we really want to go back to that?

    6. After CSM 4th ed came out, many people said it is a beggining of trend of balancing.

      Then Grey Knights, Necrons, and Imperial Guards happened.

      Now I am seeing same arguements about blanace again. Doesn't matter if one writer is dedicated in balanced book, if others don't give a rat's ass about it.

    7. True but instead of one balanced book we've seen two and parts of a third following the same trend so far this edition. I agree that, since the edition is still relatively young, things could go awry like 5th, but we won't know that until it happens. In the meantime, one can hope.

    8. I'm not sure DA is properly balanced specifically against CSM. Beating Deathwing with CSM is next to impossible as the DA player has all sorts of specific anti Chaos powers which seem very broken, especially considering the relatively high price of CSM troops.

  14. Hey Souba!

    Could you shed some light on casting psychic powers?

    1. Do ALL tzeentch demons get +3 to their LD when casting? Or just horrors? Because if a Lord of Change has to cast 3 powers a turn on Ld9, Im gunna be preeeettty pissed off.

    2. What happens when a demon rolls double 1s or 6s on a psychic test? Do they suffer perils? Please, please tell me they dont...

    3. Are demons (of any god) allowed to use more than 1 witchfire power per turn? Because tzeentch demons will have LOTS of witchfire powers but I fear they will be hamstrung in their ability to cast them...

    Can you tell I play tzeentch demons? ;-)

    1. 1. all daemons of tzeentch. funny thing though : nowhere stands it caps at 10 just a flat +3 LD increase.

      2. still perils, yeah...

      3. they are still bound to shooting rules as normal. though monstrous creatures can fire 2 psychic shooting attacks.

      i play tzeentch aswell.. and only thing i play on daemons :)

    2. I had the same question about horrors. Seems like a waste if they can't cast multiple witchfires.

    3. What the ACTUAL phuck, GW.

      Doesnt it say somewhere in the rulebook that stats can never go above 10? I mean, Im ok with casting on Ld 10, but honestly i think its fucking ridiculous that THE PERIL FROM THE WARP can be affected PERIL FROM THE WARP.

      That just makes absolutely ZERO sense at all.

      So pink horror squads getting up to ML3 are also useless, because the only powers they can take are witchfire, correct? So whats the point of being ML3 if you can only shoot one of your three powers a turn anyway?


    4. Hey Souba, what about demonettes? Do they have access to some sort of assault grenade gear? Because if they dont have some sort of ability to bring thier high initiative to a combat, they're screwed. Like....nail in the coffin for demonettes kind of screwed...

    5. FWITW Most of the powers can be upgraded the more Warp Charge you spend. 2d6+Xd6 dmg where X is the number of warp charge is spent. also, ML affects deny the Witch as well, when your dealing with enemy casters.

    6. units assaulting enemys that have been shot at by khorne cannons have assault grenades.. other than that you can only decrease the enemys I with slanesh fiends for example

  15. That makes no sense whatsoever.

    Why - why would a daemon have a save lower than it's invunerable save?

    Ooh! I get a 6+ save, but I'm daemonic, so it's a 5+, let's take the 6+!

    It appears someone decided to kick daemons in the head. With no real shooting it's going to suffer from the Tyranid problem and be a one tactic army.

    1. I dont think they will lack in shooting (unless you play mono-khorne, possibly mono-nurgle). But yeah, a +6 armor is just wasted ink in the books. I dont understand it either.

      Theres so much shit in here that just doesnt add up. it just doesnt make sense.

      Why would a demon suffer a perils of the warp attack from a failed psychic test?! Just....WHY?!

      he IS the peril from the warp! Jesus!

    2. do you know how chaos works ITS CHAOTIC, its just how the gods roll makes complete sense fluff wise just look at the CSM codex, GJ Abbadon you killed that character aaaaaaand now your a chaos spawn

    3. from the sheet I saw only the Khornate daemons recieve the armor save. I am guessing there must be attacks from Eldar later on that nullify invl saves making khorne a tiny bit tougher by having a 6+ armor. Either that or there must be something we are missing.

    4. When did this bullshit idea that just because its chaos related means that, of course, it has to be ass backwards and fluff-contrary? I dont understand where this mentality comes from.

      "Its chaos, dude! know...yeah, abbaddons a spawn now. And your demons suffer perils of the warp. Aaaand the warpstorm table screws over your X-god aligned units. AAAAND you lost combat, putting you at Ld4, so you you lost another 6 demons just now. AAAAAAND you have no idea what wargear your HQ choices are going to bring to the fight. Same goes for psychic powers, why not?! ITS CHAOS! FUN!"

      Bullshit. Im not buying it.

    5. Mr. Roy there is another way to look at the armies in general. I prefer not to think of the armies in tiers and I have stopped believing that every army ought to balance on a point for point basis with other armies. Rather I prefer to think of the different armies in this system as being ranked according to the level of skill required to manage them. Space marines seem to require the least, they are reliable through and through, and always do what they are told. At the other end of the scale is this wonderful army. I can't but feel like the last book was like an experiment and this is the thing fully realized, in another 5-6 years I expect near perfection in 7th edition.

      I think the random element requires far more forethought in decisions. I once said to another wargamer that the previous Daemon army was a plastic (well metal too, lots and lots of metal back then) and dice equivalent of Schrodingers Cat before they entered play. This Codex appears to bring that element away from just deployment and into several aspects of the game. So now much like searching a potential energy surface in molecular structure optimization in Quantum chemistry. This army forces one to consider the random aspect in a far more integral manner, searching for the peaks on the potential energy surface so to speak (as opposed to troughs).

      I welcome this whole heartedly, as it will remain a challenging even frustrating army to manage well. To me the harder it is to do something, the more gratifying it is doing it. Let the search begin!

    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

    7. Love how you cry about an army that adheres to fluff. All the chaos gods have one sworn enemy that they won't fight with. Honestly if you take a GD than you should be disallowed from including any unit from the that gods enemy.

    8. Yeah honestly while the random gear is a little difficult, you get it before deployment, so it's actually exciting to me, once the rolls are done, to be able to change the tactics based on the gear (and as one person said, plan for it to be the weapon, and if you roll something better, take that.)

      As for perils, while it does seem a little silly, the Daemons are still asking for powers to manifest from spiteful gods. A herald, Daemon Prince, Horror, or honestly even a Greater Daemon are not the biggest perils of the warp. There's always a bigger fish.

    9. Ian you are wrong just wrong wrong wrong. Even the codex says that the four gods all help and hinder each other. They've all worked with each other. They sit down at a table to debate stupid shit. It isn't just a flat out they don't work together. Why don't you actually read the fluff before you spew stupid shit. Now if you wanted to give them rules for like different tiers of alliance I wouldn't mind that.

      The biggest problem with this new codex is the fact that furries get marks of gods, greater daemons didn't seem so great last edition and with this edition they seem even less impressive, and to top it off they turned an elite army into a glass hammer hoard army. Also the fact that they don't have any real shooting. Not one troop that has just a regular shooting attack. I liked it better when they had powers. It is ass backwards to give them just psychic abilities.

      All in all I wont be playing this army I might use them as an ally for my CSM, which I only picked up to have any ally with my daemons, but as it stands the mixture of Crud and Kelly did nothing for Daemons. They copy and pasted the book from fantasy. They didn't even have the decency to use new art.

      Sorry I didn't mean to rage but this is my first army and I've always had a dear place in my heart for daemons.

    10. "furries get marks of gods"

      Oh god, Slaneesh and furries should not go together.

      I hope you meant furies.

    11. Hey Ninja,

      Ive played chaos for the better part of 10 years. I know my fucking background. Yes, I recognize that the gods fight against one another... no shit. When I talk about contradictory fluff, Im talking about why a herald of khorne takes a wild guess about what weapon to bring to a battle, why a lord of change even needs to test for psychic powers when it should be automatic (at the very least, without peril), why blood crushers which are 70% iron behemoth, have a worse armor save than guard issue flak, why slaanesh demons have lost their assault grenade equivalent (tantalizing the enemy and robbing their ability to shoot them as they charge forward), etc. etc.

      This codex is turning into an unmanageable, completely unpredictable mess. If i wanted to sit back, watch a bunch of monsters do whatever the fuck they wanted, and have zero control over whats going on, I'd watch a Michael Bay movie.

      Id rather know...PLAY my army. Not WATCH it.

  16. As a general impression of the design here, I think fast attack is where it is at for killing power now. It used to be elites but with their current stats they seemed to be far more geared towards support units.

    Fiends: -5I and -1Ld to psykers. This will help Nurgle daemons greatly in my opinion.

    Bloodcrushers: Seem to want to be fodder and distractions for later HQ or troop charges charges (Bloodthirster!). However could switch roles with a proper kitted herald.

    Beasts of Nurgle: The most obvious of the bunch, just let them sit around squishy units like pink horrors and protect them from assault.

    Flamers: Suicide units meant to deepstrike in and die. Surviving long enough for Slaanesh units to close in and wreak havoc.

    Fast attack is where I expect our killiest units to come from. I am trying to think of how to use furies constructively, probably another suicide unit with Ld2. Plague drones and seekers sound the nastiest and there is probably a good place for fleshhounds with Karanak in them.

  17. Actually, I have a pretty important question that seems to be overlooked... For the Chariots of Tz, do the Screamers on the model get their normal attacks? The armorbane ones?

    1. Also, the Heralds have locci abilities right, do they cost points?

    2. All of the Loci abilities have points costs next to them, I would assume those are the points costs...

  18. Hi souba, I'm curious about the Horrors shooting attack. Are they still the same? ie str 4 assualt 3? Loved the amount fire power they put out.

    1. Im assuming its 1 shot each now as there pts are so cheap... Oh havent seen anything about changeling mentioned yet. I may have missed it scrawling through all the kelly hatred. Also pondering that it could be that kelly and vetock might be writing all the 40k codexes. Makes sense. Surprised we havent seen a ward dex yet.

    2. They don't have an "actual" gun it is all psychic abilities just like with magic in fantasy. You'll be lucky if you put out 14 shots with 20 models. At least that is what they said over at /tg/

  19. The Herald of Slaanesh initiative bonus seems strange to me. +5 ini for her and her unit. Does any Slaanesh unit that the herald can join have less than six initiative? What would the point of being +5 when +4 would suffice to reach 10 without leaving that pesky extra ini. Unless, that is, this initiative bonus is applied after any modifiers, such as assaulting through cover. If this were to be the case, the +5 would make much more sense as 1 + 5 = 6, the base initiative of Daemonettes, seekers, etc. Will be interesting to see how it is worded, as using a Khorne cannon (at all) to assist Slaanesh units just doesn't... feel right. Probably just wishful thinking on my part, but we shall see.

    1. I think Daemonettes are now base I5, so +5 takes them to 10.

    2. Possible that heralds can maybe join Chaos Marine units too?

    3. Depends if marked HQs can join units w/o a mark (unless marks are mandatory, just like DPs) ... f.e. Furies. If that's the case Furies can benefit the whole +5I.

  20. Very interested in this. If anything, Codex Daemons are working up to be perfect as an allied list for Chaos Space Marines.

    Imagine: A Primary Detachment with a winged Daemon Prince w/ a Black Mace, two squads of minimum-sized cultists, 2-3 Heldrakes (Maybe one with the Hades Autocannon).

    And a Secondary Detachment with a Bloodthirster, full-sized squad of Screamers, Horrors, and maybe a Daemon Prince depending on if they're still allowed to be Heavy.

    That's 3 Flying Monsters on the board at once with 2-3 Flyers that may come in later on, and still under 2000 points. It really only lacks anti-flyer. You should have enough anti-tank and anti-infantry with the rest.

  21. It's funny; with all the Kelly hate flying around, the thing that annoys me most? Which do I choose for a Primary detachment, CSM or Daemons?!
    Surely CSM so my Lord unlocks cult troops!
    But then no 4 heralds (which seem to be a big deal) and maybe no daemon prince heavy (although I'd probably take a soulgrinder) and who knows what else?!
    Darn this game xD

    1. Well unless you want to roll on the Warp table every round I'd take CSM.

    2. I'm also concerned regarding which army to choose as my primary detachment.. CSM or Daemons.

      Heralds enhances other Daemons to a good degree, so they become pretty much mandatory. The 4 Heralds for 1 slot only applies if Daemons are taken as the primary detachment. What happens if this isn't the case? Do Heralds refer back to the previous codex rule , like 2 for 1?

      Anyways if Daemons is taken as allies I think I would stick to a Greater Daemon. Afterwards getting some units who can fulfill missing roles in a CSM army. At least I won't have to worry about Heralds this way.

      F.e. Building a Death Guard army:
      1 GUO (w/ portal glyph)-> DS in enemy lines
      1 unit of Nurglings for infiltrate
      1 unit of PBs -> DS
      1 unit of Plague drones to hunt monsters/characters
      Beasts of Nurgle slogging and assisting alongside Plague Marines

  22. Replies
    1. if you manage to wound something with it the enemy gets to roll a T-check, if he fails he loses d3(not sure abo8ut the dice number) models. So nothing to special, as i bet it does not stack for multiple attacks from flamers/horrors, i mean this would be toon hard and NOT fuck us over, which we obviously need -.-

    2. Also, if wounded unit pass test, it gets +1FnP (6+ if it had none)

  23. This comment has been removed by the author.

  24. Great. I got a pretty big daemon army a couple of months ago and now this!?! The reason i got into daemons was to have a lot of small units and fateweaver saving them all! I hate now that these other worldly beings have to use psychic powers like everyone else. Maybe its not because the rules are bad, for me its the style of the army i play

  25. the profile of the major demons myself uncomfortable, endurance 6 and strength 6 for the bloodsucker I would prefer strength 9 and endurance 7 as previously announced

  26. Oh my god so many tears in the last 2 chaos deamons posts, if there are any more I may have to build an ark. Half the stuff listed has been on the verge of OP while the rest seams to be ok at the least, and you guys are still crying about a book you personally have not seen, touched, or played with.

    Honestly it sounds like you want a book that lets you show up drop some models on the table and insta win before the other guy even deploys.

    No army is perfect, every one has minor flaws at the very least. Some people complain about how awesome the DA book is and how milquetoast the CSM one is which I find ironic personally as I see it the other way completely

  27. Hmmm, Imperial Guard Psyker Battle Squads' Weaken Resolve and the new Daemons the "Stone of the Damned" sounds like a pretty nice way to get rid of a powerful enemy Character. Reduce Ld to 2, minus d6 and chances are you will get to 0. Goodbye Logan Grimnar/Grazkul.


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