We are getting almost no codex information yet, but lucky for us, we have our first real bit of information from someone that has spent some time with the codex. It might be later that we try and get a QnA session going, but at the moment we, at least myself, are grateful for what we get.


So enjoy the latest info, and I am sure more will be coming. Remember, always take a grain of salt until the codex is in hand.

via the Faeit 212 inbox (has to remain anonymous source)
Daemonic: Instability
If you lose 25% of your unit at the end of your close combat phase then you must take a leadership test on 2d6.  You subtract the amount of models lost to the overall leadership total. If you pass then nothing happens otherwise you lose wounds equal to the amount you failed the combat by.

For the case of shooting then the daemons count as being fearless.
If a herald joins a unit then the unit is not effected by daemonic Instability

Heralds: have +1 to weapon skill, wounds, initiative, attack and have LD 9-10
Soul grinder has sky fire in profile (220pts base)

All daemon units have a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
There is upgrades to give heralds 3+ and even 2+ save (although it is very expensive)

Greater daemons are tough – the keeper of secrets have 6 base attacks and gains more attacks for every kill. She also has rending.

Blood thirster- has amazing stat line:
WS  BS  S   T   W   A   I   LD  SV
10    5   8   7    5    5   5   10  4+

Re- rolls all failed to hit and to wound.
All greater daemons have the option for 2+ save – although it is on the 65pts+ mark

Fate weaver can make a enemy hero turn into a spawn if they fail an invulnerble save.
Still re-rolls saves (but only invulnerable – no longer armour)

Basic troops stay the same, points have been reduced minimal
Bloodletters – reduced by a point
Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points but are now strength 4 on the charge.
Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points a model but have lost feel no pain but gained shrouded.
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves.

Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage.  (They are really expensive)
Beast of nurgle are vastly improved – and have gone up in cost by 30+ points

Physic powers are a bit to random and can hurt you badly if you roll badly
Nurgle is the best of a bad bunch.

210 Comments:

  1. Nice. Still dying for epidemius info.

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    1. I have a bad feeling about it.. I almost don't want to know.. >.<

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    2. There is always a slight pucker factor when a new codex is imminent.

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  2. Well, GW didn't blatantly nerf daemons, but it doesn't seem like much of an improvement either.

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    1. It's interesting. I tend ot run small units of daemons and get them into combat sharpish. Now you're going to need slightly bigger units to ensure you win.

      Let's be honest, a Bloodletter belting in against a marine with 4 attacks on the charge is lethal.

      If that statline is true, my heck. Thirsters are lovely. Re-rolling to hit is the big one. Nothing worse than having 7 attacks and watching 5 miss. Keepers as beast, with fleet means a range of 13" range average, 18" maxima and they'll hit like a train.

      Shame there's no new models for greater daemons though.

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    2. How exactly will they justify giving Plague Marines Feel No Pain...but not Plague Bearers...doesn't make any sense.

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    3. They can get it if n Herald with the Loci of Fecundity is in the unit.
      So they are Shrouded and have FnP, wich is better then plain FnP.

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    4. yes, as unknown said, having shrouded is a big one, i probably wont be giving them a herald just for fnp, as there main job is to sit on an objective, which id rather have +2 cover and have them sitting behind a defense line for a 2+ save over a 4+ cover wity a 5+ fnp. albeit, a 5+ on top of the 2+ would be nice, but not necessary. ill probably be taking a herald anyway for the nurgle spells which imbsure will be great, but if they dont end up being too good, ill probably pass on the nurgle gerald and go for tzeentch for access to divination which will be sick for daemons.

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    5. Another key question (at least from a CSM Death Guard perspective) is whether Epidemius still counts as a Herald, and can buy the Locus of Fecundity? If so, and he hasn't gone up too much in points, then it will probably even out the points I'm currently paying for him & a bodyguard ubit of 10 Plaguebearers. The second unit of PBs I typically took (just so I'd have -something- to drop with Daemonic Assault, but also a solid 4th or 5th Troops choice) not getting FNP standard will hurt some in combat, but I'll take the Shrouding!

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  3. Can't get my head round that Instability... have to see it in an example, I think.

    If the Q&A gets going, I'd be quite pleased to know what's happening with Furies and any other Undivided units. I'd be especially pleased to know what's going on with deployment. Thank you!

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    1. Deployment, I am pretty sure every unit has deep strike now. Demonic deployment is no more.

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    2. The Instability is like fearless in 5th with No Retreat! rule, you don't run away, but take wounds if you miss your LD test, if you have a LD8 and make a 10 on the test you lose 2 models.

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    3. NB: Yeah, that seemed to be what those pics we saw a couple of days ago were suggesting... I'm eager to know for certain though, I'm trying to write some rules for a campaign!

      Unknown: That was what I remember instability being like... but the above doesn't seem to suggest that - it looks more convoluted...

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    4. The one above suggests that if you lose 4 guys in combat, and fail the LD test, then you lose 4 more, rather than the difference between what you failed by.

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    5. That's not how I read it, Crow. I'm interpreting it as: if you lose 25%+ of the unit, say 3 guys, and the unit is Ld 10, then you have to roll a 7 or less, and if you don't, say you roll a 9, then you take two more wounds. That's what I took away from it...

      My question is, do you get an Invulnerable Save for those extra wounds you had to take for "failing" Daemonic Instability? It is, after all, an invulnerable save... And what about FnP, if the unit has it? Or is it more along the lines of "remove 2 more models", which is different than "take 2 additional wounds" (which, in turn, is different than "take 2 more wounds with no saves of any kind allowed", which would still permit a FnP roll...)

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    6. Ah, just re-read it.

      "If a Herald joins the unit, then the unit doesn't have to test for instability.". Or something to that effect, since this site doesn't allow me to Paste with an iPad...

      Anyway, it sounds like "Take that many more wounds", so my question stands: Would the unit get an Invul Save on those DI wounds?...

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    7. "...otherwise you lose wounds equal to the amount you failed the combat by."

      I'm sort of reading that like it means you take wounds equal to how much you actually lost the combat by (i.e., you lose 5 guys in combat, fail the ld test, then lose 5 more). That being said, the way you're describing is how No Retreat! worked in 5th edition, and it'd honestly make much more sense for them to re-adapt that instead of a convoluted version.

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  4. Could someone sum up the differences between Beasts and Monstrous Creatures? I don't have my rulebook to hand at the moment, and this worries me.

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    1. http://shinysilverinq.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/sixth-edition-unit-types-monstrous.html

      It appears that they (beasts) are faster, but lose Fear, Hammer of Wrath, and Smash. I can't imagine any GD without Fear, Hammer of Wrath is logical, and without Smash they wouldn't have AP2! :O

      Hmm... Nice statline but I like the AP2 - it stops terminators quite well.

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    2. at S8 a blood thirster would instagib most termies anyways. I have a hard time seeing GW taking away monsterous creature from the greater daemons though.. seems weird :\

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    3. Or maybe he meant that they are 'beasts' on the battlefield, not beasts by unit type. :)

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    4. Perhaps they are Monstrous Beasts, much like how the Plague Drones are Jet Pack Cavalry.

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    5. Monstruous Beast, means that they have the rules of Beasts AND MC's.

      SO they move 12, have fleet, Move Through cover, Smash, Hammer of Wrath, ignore difficult terrains,Fear.

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    6. I suspect it will actually be Monstrous Cavalry, as Blood Crushers are ridden mounts. So rather then ignoring difficult terrain, they will treat it at dangerous.
      Other then that, I look forward to Blood Crushers being a really solid, hard hitting unit.

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  5. I don't think the Great Unclean One will move as a Beast but it'd be nice.

    The Instability rule seems a little over complicated too.

    And 19 points for 1 Horror of Tzeentch? Not sure I believe this but fun read anyway. :)

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    1. I can see instability hurting drones quite a bit.

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    2. They way they worded instability, it's a gift. It's similar to before except it will prevent your GDs from getting killed by instability wounds. Similar to how Nid MCs often died to wounds caused by being fearless in 5th.

      Its pretty awesome for daemons overall. Well at least better then the old fearless was.

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  6. Pink Horrors- INCREASED IN POINTS? Their save would have to be impressive for me to even consider 19 point Horrors, which weren't worth the 17 they had in the last book.

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    1. 4+ invulnerable, re-roll failed rolls of 1. Might be worth it.

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    2. Ok, I'm going to assume these are a joke or meant for Fantasy.

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    3. Hey, it was meant for 40k. If their abilities have increased too, it could be good.
      Also, looking at the rumour, it could mean that they have a 3+ invulnerable instead! ("better saves" - 4+ before - 3+ now?)

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    4. Re-rolling a 1 is almost useless. However, they've been made psykers, so might get doombolt by default but then, I'll guess their leadership is lowish so perils of the warp - seriously? A daemon suffering from going home.

      Some fo the fluff seems to be unusual - eternal warrior, fearless and what not sort of made sense. I do wonder what a daemon would be frightened of though.

      But yes, I'm not 100% sure the points increase is warranted. Daemon troops were expensive (poor armour, no transports) before, so the troops had best have improved.

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    5. Um, their invul is getting better according to rumor. Additionally, they are "of tzeentch" a la CSM, so re-roll failed 1's. Combining these two means they have a 3++ and re-roll half their failed saves. That's ... pretty durable.

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    6. Again, all when I see it. Suffering from perils, instability (no saves allowed), toughness 3... it would have to be a 3++ for me to be impressed. The 4++ just won't cut it at 19 points, though, even if they are psychers.

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    7. So in summary, horrors roll a 3++ save. From there there's a 50/50 chance to re-roll it if it fails... That sounds pretty damn awesome for half the price of a terminator, especially (assuming I understood right) if instability is only a problem in assault, the last place your horrors should be!

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    8. Where did you see that GD's becomes Beasts?...

      Its Only Bloodcrsuhers who becomes Monstruous Beast apparently, and maybe the KoS who move like a beast.

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  7. Beasts = No Hammer of Wrath or Smash, natural 12" move.

    I think that covers most of it.

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  8. Will be interesting if Bloodletters are equiped with "just" Power Weapons, Power Swords or Fell Blades. Will hope for "just" Power Weapons so I have the choice between Swords and Axes.

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    1. eBay would go nuts for the old metal bloodletters!

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  9. Greater daemons are beasts – the keeper of secrets have 6 base attacks and gains more attacks for every kill. She also has rending.

    I don't want people getting this wrong, when it says greater daemons are beasts it means they are beasts IN GAME. They do not have the beast special rule. I thought i would clear that up.

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    1. Thank you! I thought it seemed really silly that GW would change something like that.. I was worried :(

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    2. Well that clears everything up! I now want to know what the points are for the GD, because that statline is definitely BEAST! :D

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    4. No...GD's don't become beast, only the KoS move like a Beast, so he maybe be a Monstruous Beast, all the others keep their MC status, with GUO being a footslogging MC and the BT and LoC FMC's.

      Bloodcrushers on the other hadn becomes Monstruous Beasts

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    5. Mr Unknown, do you know any other details? Toughness or saves for example? Is the KoS keeping it's T6/4++? ANything else?

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  10. Beasts also ignore cover and are fleet

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    1. A GUO must of learnt to roll since last dex.

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  11. My god, 12 points for a plague bearer? I can get a Chaos Space Marine for that! I'm skeptical of everything I've read so far, we NEED the new book at this point, because the more I hear the more worried I am.

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    1. Oh and can I just note how little I want shrouded? Great, my creature with an invulnerable save can get a 4+ or 3+ cover save in forest/ruins... but its a close combat unit!

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    2. Plague bearers? A close combat unit?

      I think that's the prob though. There's little 'midfield'. It's all close up.

      I've never felt that Plague bearers are tough enough. Perhaps a 3+ save base?

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    3. How cheap did you want the plague bearers? I think 12 points is good value, granted you can get marines for that cost but you can't compare every thing to a marine. It was never going to be 9-10 points per model.

      & all nurgle units have shrouded as standard. apparently to represent the cloud of flies around them. Might protect them from moving across the board.

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    4. @pegboard - they have 4+ save base.

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    5. Shrouded vs. FNP... +1 to cover save, or an extra 5+ save you can always take apart from wounds caused by Instant Death...
      It makes you wander what Slaneesh did to Kelly!

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    6. Well since they have BS0 and poisoned weapons, I'd call them a combat unit more than I would a shooting one. In my view there are only 2 types of units, units that pew pew and units that smash smash. We get a cheaper, crappier unit that does neither well.

      And points SHOULD be determined by what a unit does! for context, I can get a cultist with mark of nurgle for 6 points, you pay double for what, an invulnerable save, lower initiative, 1 higher toughness and a loss of all shooting and 1 less attack base? Oh, and you get a +1 to your cover save. There's either something we don't know yet (my vote) or we got lucky and kelly was on an ether binge when he priced cultists.

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    7. Oracle mikey0987, is that 4+ invulnerable save base?

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    8. @unknown - they have a 4+ armour save, their save is also their invulnerable.

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    9. Sweet. That kind of changes everything, for me at least. That means that mid field they have a 4++. In cover they can upgrade to a 3+ or better. With a herald they get FnP. All of this with T5, and a 3pt reduction. Not bad to me!

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    10. Yep I am starting to come round to it also. I mean I love the icon of excess on my Noise marines and it is basically the same thing.
      Instability has me the most worried right now with the awful LD. Drones, beasts and few other things going to have to be careful..

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    11. Even if its a CC unit, it must first arrive to CC range, so if you don't want Shrouded for your PB's, you can give it to my Bloodletters, they will gladly have a 2+ cover save to footslog into CC...

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    12. If I'm reading all this right, I'm kinda liking it for Plaguebearers (given that change is a reality of life):

      - Shrouded
      - 4+ armour save
      - 4++ invul save
      - T5
      - Poisoned (4+) weapons
      - Can get FnP if joined by a Herald with Locus of Fecundity
      - Slow & Purposeful (I'm assuming)

      Did I leave anything out?

      @mikey: At the risk of belaboring the point, can you please confirm and/or correct??? :-)

      If they are S&P, then, yeah, having Shrouded is Awesome! as my PBs tend to get shot at a lot, and can't Run, so yeah, Shrouded and shuffling thru cover around objectives sounds good to me...

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    13. the plague bearers are not toughness 5 from what I can remember. I believe they are toughness 4 (not 100% sure)

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  12. I wonder how Bloodcrushers being "Monstrous Beasts" will work?

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    1. Move 12, Fleet, Hammer of Wrath, Fear, Smash, Move Through covers, ignore difficult terrains.

      Also Relentless and can shoot two weapons, but since bloodcrushers don't have ranged weapons( or maybe an option on a Jugger Herald...)

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    2. Rage, too, being Khorne? Or is that asking too much?...

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    3. 'Daemons of khorne' rule should give khorne units rage and counter-attack

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    4. Well for Chaos Space Marines 'Daemon of Khorne' only gives Furious Charge.

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  13. 19 points for Pink Horrors LOL. Even if they are psykers they will be useless as everyone brings eldar runes or space wolf anti-psyker stuff. 4.5 IG models or 1 pink horror? not hard to see what is a better value.

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  14. How could you not want shrouded on plaguebearers?? Shrouded gives +2 to cover saves which means a 2+ cover save in ruins, that now makes them much better objective holders

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    1. My plague bearers weren't dying to shooting before, they were dying in assault, where they suck. This made them substantially worse. What I was hoping for was at least a bump in attacks or something to deny armour saves. As it is now, I don't know how I'm going to kill anything with my daemons, looks like I'll tie units up with beasts and drones, which don't have any serious punch, and then rely on 1-2 assault units and I guess...soul grinders, which at 220 points per are going to be shot to shit in no time. Just saying, mono nurgle is getting worse, and it was already bad.

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    2. You don't know that much yet dude. Just hang fire for more details. Remember that the plaguebeares can still have FNP with a herald and it is possible that they may be able to have psychic powers like the horrors can. Also looking at the bloodthirster stats I expect the GUO to be a beast

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    3. GUO? T8, please. :D
      The problem with heralds is that they can be taken out like Icons, and when they go, FNP for the whole unit goes.

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    4. I think you have it right. Unlike what has been stated there is at least one other unit role besides killing via shooting, or killing via close combat. You also need the units that "hold the line" so to speak. They don't really kill anything, or even harass or threaten, they just don't die, they soak up damage. Plus, I can really see heralds becoming a much more integral part of the meta with what information we have so far. At 12 points a pop, PBs sound just fine to me. Add a herald for an extra 150 or so and get all sorts of bonuses. They might be more cost effective now than they were before.

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    5. PROBLEM IS: WITHOUT FNP THE JUST DIE! to everything, i mean , charge them with equal points of guardsmen, and they will probably get raped. They are no lineholders anymore, they are not smashers, and shooting is not even possible for them, they cant shot a quadgun from behind a aegis for example. wtf gw, thank you for nothing. Plaguebearers are a complete waste, even if they get FNP from a herald/his loci. That should not be needed, why shall you pay for a rule that Plague Marines get together with bolters, defensive grenades and acess to melta/plasma weapons + Power Armour? even without the Bolters. If you add al these to Plaguebearers they would cost arround 40pts for following this train of thought. srs, not fair kelly

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    6. Yes, those models exist, but Daemons don't get those units, they cost 4-6 points a model and come in big blobs. 12 points is almost the cost of a CSM or a Tactical, they don't have anywhere near the flexibility, and the army has more deficits. Yes, we don't know what heralds will have (as I noted in my original complaint) or what they cost, but since there's only one new nurgle unit, and we know its stats, we know what we're working with, and mono nurgle lists are going to live and die by the force org/herald changes we haven't seen yet.

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    7. Yes I agree. I believe the mono lists in general will live or die based on the roles and costs of heralds now, and the FOC in general. It appears that daemon troops will be quite weak compared to their role counterparts in other armies. The only way they will be worth their cost is if the synergies of the Codex work towards the end of accentuating their roles. However, I have a very sneaking suspicion that PBs have a little more up their skin sloughing sleeves than we have seen.

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    8. @Unknown - heralds are no were near the 150pt mark for the basic profile. after the upgrades I could say around 100-110pts

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    9. As long as they are not derp enough that they have to except challenges like CSM..

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    10. Excellent mikey0987. For some reason I am always unknown. I will have to change that. So, if you are still with us mikey0987; What is the deal with the FOC concerning heralds, are they still 2/HQ, or some other model? Since they seem to be so integral to the performance of certain units.

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    11. Beast of Nurgle might help out with protecting PB's ontop as anyone lining up to assault the PB's, they can assault and get in their way first if I am understanding the rules correctly.. Bit like Guard dogs. lol

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    12. Could it be that plague bearers have had a slight nerf so we can keep the tally? One of the tally benefits is an increased FnP so maybe we have to earn it first?

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    13. TBF Jon, the old FnP buff wouldn't even apply to plague bearers that don't have an attached herald with loci of fecundity. Not that the rule works that way now, I'm just skeptical of what we have thus far.

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  15. Strength 8 vector striking bloodthirster doesn't sound too bad!

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    1. we have that now. Unholy Might is 20pts.

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    2. If we still have unholy might as an option this will dominate the skies!

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  16. as I posted in the other article, I think people are going to be disappointed overall. it seems as if GW is trying to curb the power level in 40k as chaos and dark angels were both certainly not of the insane OP style they have been in 5th.

    as long as this trend continues I have to issue with it as all the codex's will be more competitive as a whole, but if ward or whoever starts writing the GK/SW/IG/necro style of codexs again, then it will be a bad edition for at least these first 3 codexs

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    1. I dunno, I'm pretty happy looking at this from my mono-khorne army's perspective. We've got some shooty now and it looks like something that can move fast finally, if crushers are indeed beasts with the 12inch move and suchlike.

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    2. Yeah also speaking as a monokhorne deamon player, 6th and the new codex is looking to be pretty kind. Aliies let me bring in some semi durable scoring marines, the 5 or so soul grinders I have look like they will be awesome, the murder cycle looks pretty fun and I'll finally be able to use a haerald who isn't skull taker and not feel like I'm throwing points down the drain. Kinda disappointed that bloodletters are only going down a point and still no grenade option but overall I'm really excited. Really looking forward to information about bloodhounds

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    3. Speaking as a mono Nurgle player, I want bloody Kelly's had on a spike! I think I have more love for Ward right now..

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    4. That's just more blood for the blood god!

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    5. Yeah forgive me. Am actually starting to come round to things now. I think it was the shock of change.

      He can keep his head... for now.

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    7. I think this book is truly leaning towards a mixed daemon army instead of mono lists. Tzeentch takes out the vehicles and dug in units, Khorne takes out the elite assault units, Slaanesh rips apart hordes, and Nurgle deals with those tough, MC types. Looking forward to building a daemon army that isn't just screamers and flamers.

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    8. Surely khorne butchers hordes through weight of attacks and slaanesh takes elites through higher initiative and rending?

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  17. T7 with 2+ 4++ on a flying beastie? Damn that'll be hard to bring down.

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    1. the t7 greater daemon does not start with the 2+ save, your having to pay 65+ points for it. plus you can make your invulnerable save better, in the end your looking around 290-320pts+

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    2. How much would I be looking at for a Flying Bloodthirster with 2+/2++?

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    3. Dude, there is no way in hell you're going to have a 2+/2++ BT,

      If that's allowed, I'll give Phil Kelly as a good designer/author.

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    4. HERO, read the rumour. The upgrade is 65pts+, but IMHO, it is totally worth it. Although I may have got it completely wrong and that's talking about armour saves.
      Actually, fuck it, I did misread it. IGNORE ME!
      But the Oracle of Tzeentch above my post did say you could make the invulnerable save better... :D

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    5. Grounding tests. You just have to HIT the thing, and it has to take a 3+ or fall out of the sky, taking a S9 hit, and is no longer flying that round (allowing it to be shot normally)
      Grounding tests are the bane of Flying Monsters.

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    6. Yeah, even marker lights can knock a creature out of the sky... (assuming FAQs haven't changed it without me noticing!)

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  18. Also any word if deamon and csm independent characters can mix units now? A csm lord charging with blood crushers sounds pretty awesome

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    1. Their is nothing in the codex saying you can so I would assume the answer is no.

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    2. But is there anything in the rules saying you can't? Currently it's just the errata that prevents IC crossover despite being battle brothers and that's most likely to do with the daemon deployment rules

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    3. Lol Jon as good as that would be, I doubt it. Plus you can't work around rules like that, if it doesn't say you can, you can't. Otherwise there would be made up rules flying all over the shop.

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    4. IC characters among battle brothers can join any squad in either attachment EXCEPT in chaos marine/daemon armies (currently). It could be possible that it is allowed with the new rulebook, I'm not trying to make up rules! ;)
      I mean what's the point of a Khorne lord on juggernaut if he can't ride with anyone else? XD

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    5. It could be and it would give us all a lot more to think about but if not written anywhere saying we can, then we can't. I mean it doesn't currently say it in the CSM book or CSM errata (I think?), so I'm doubting the cross over will feature in the daemons book either... THOUGH! The very bulky ruling on some daemon units could point to a very slim chance of a cross over between dex's so maybe a very slight chance!

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    6. This is wrong, as noted above daemons and CSM are battle brothers, by definition battle brothers IC's can join each other's squads. If the codex (or erratta) doesn't include a restriction that overrides the rule book, then it is already written that its allowed.

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    7. @Jon: A Khorne Lord on Juggernaut can always run with unmarked Spawn. That's not a terrible option, and one I'm looking into for when I get around to doing Khorne (which, at the rate I'm bogged down in Nurgle might be a while...)

      :-)

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    8. A CSM Khorne Lord, of course...

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    9. Oh yeah spawn are great meatshields for a khorne juggerlord, but it's no where near as cool as a juggerlord charging forward with bloodcrushers!

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    10. I never knew it said it allowed IC's to join ally units in the battle brother ruling. That is handy. Wonder what will happen sticking heralds in with CSM squads then. :o

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    11. Yeah the new shiny for about 10 minutes with DA was sticking Azrael in a 50 man guard blob to confer them a 4++. I'm sure we'll see that list come tourney season, although I think DA enthusiasm petered out pretty quickly since their flyers have issues.

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  19. Loving the replies lmao.

    For those not in the know, beasts is also a slang term in the same vein as badass. It is most definitely in this context rather than they wilm be beast unit type.

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  20. Loving the replies lmao.

    For those not in the know, beasts is also a slang term in the same vein as badass. It is most definitely in this context rather than they wilm be beast unit type.

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  21. I am NOT sure about the legitimacy of these rumors...
    19 point Horrors?
    Beast GUO?

    I don't think so man

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    1. As Mikey stated earlier in the comments, Greater Daemons are 'beasts', and what he meant by that was that they are beastly on the battlefield and not of the 'beast' unit type...

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    2. Am thinking the same. Something is telling me this could be the same source/troll as the one who gave out the bogus rumors about a week ago..

      Apologies to source if not but like HERO, I am having trouble trying to imagine a GUO moving that fast. Has he learnt to roll or something?

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    3. @Nurlge burger - I have explained that the greater daemons do not have the BEAST special rule. I was just saying that they are BEASTS in combat - I had it for like 2 hours, I can't get everything correct. (these are not my notes either)

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    5. Oh nvm ty for getting us more info! :)

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  22. I edited the post. I am 99.9% positive that the source meant that Greater Daemons extremely tough (not turning them into a beast unit type)

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    1. Alright, that makes more sense.

      I also think the Keeper of Secrets will have Beast, Monstrous Creature. Simply because the battle report said she could reach combat in 2 turns. Without Beast, there's no way she could do that.

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    2. Why not? 6"+d6 rerollable+fleet+3+6+2d6 rerollable is close to 30" in two turns

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  23. Ppl are worried that nurgle daemons being T5 having a 5++, shrouded, poison and fear/fearless is not worth 12 points? I will avoid the flame wars. If you play daemons then get used to the book and don't bitch about it. You will have to adapt so look for the strengths of the book. This may take a while, but you daemon lovers will figure them out

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    1. I know right!! All these people are so worried about havin to change without a hard confirmation on the rules. Even if they are changed, get over it an adapt.

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    2. The point of complaining is that there are only the following nurgle choices in the book:
      Great Unclean One
      Kugath
      Nurgle DP
      Epidemius
      Nurgle herald
      Beast of nurgle
      Plague bearer
      Nurgling
      Plague drone
      Possibly a nurgle soul grinder

      Since nurglings a swarms and can't score, there's only one troop choice in a nurgle list. Having that units effectiveness go down seriously hurts the army. Losing access to 3 heavy support monsters is a much bigger change though, and that's what really worries me. In all of my complaints I've noted skepticism and wanting to see all the rules, but don't pretend GW can't remove a list from being functional, they just substantially cut the power of the already mid-range pure Death Wing list by increasing the points cost of all of the units that list relied on.

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    3. Oh, sorry your life is changed so much with the release of a game book. I guess im bad for not taking this game more serious and being so puzzled as to why you just cant get another scoring unit that is not Nugle.
      I play demons, and i prefer Nurgle, but im not gonna let a rule change ruin the game for me. I'll just get another scoring unit to pick up the void left by the PB's and adjust how I use them.

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    4. You're applying a level of concern that I nor anybody here ever evinced. I never said anything beyond the fact that I was concerned about the change and that I wanted more details because it would seriously hurt, and this is important, on top of the changes we already know about. Since an allied Daemons unit only has 6 units to chose from, our main heavy unit being made an HQ was already a major concern.

      As for the last bit, I only run nurgle, its an allied contingent to my Death Guard and there is no situation where I would take a non-nurgle daemon with them. My concern is that the army already had its hands tied behind its back in 5th and 6th, so getting hosed (which appears not to be the case for PB assuming the 4++) for another edition means essentially not playing with that allied contingent and going back to the drawing board for my DG.

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    5. @Ian: I play Death Guard with Nurgle Daemon allies, too, and share your concerns; however, I think I'm a tad more optimistic than you've been. Sure, PBs aren't shooty, but I use them as bubble-wrap for Epidemius, and as a 4th or 5th, very durable scoring Troops unit. That durability has -changed- with them losing FnP by default, but it's also improved (i.e., been balanced out) with shrouding & a 4+ and potentially a 4++. I haven't crunched the statistics yet, but it seems like a reasonable trade off for having 3 points per model shaved off. My PBs don't go looking for trouble, usually, they've got another job to do, but in doing those jobs they tend to get shot at a lot, and then assaulted. Yes, I'm not happy about losing auto-FnP, just trying to look at how to still use a very effective T5 unit in the brave (inevitably) new world of change (i.e., a new codex)...

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    7. jd, yeah I'm not going to flip till I see the book, but thus far I'm worried I'll long for the old book and its dumb deployment. I don't run Epi, but I may have to after these changes.

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  24. I'm not sure on the 3" + D6 for run. Seems a little consistent with current rules, but we might be in for a surprise.

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    1. It is a virtual certainty just as Nurgle daemons get shrouded.

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    2. I must of missed this somewhere. Where can I find all the marks in 40K?

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    3. Codex Chaos Space Marines, they are said to line up. That and I'm sure someone mentioned they were viewable on the iPad trial daemon codex

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    4. The CSM Mark of Slaanesh gives +1I... I don't think the same applies to Chaos Daemons.

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    5. According to the latest rumours, Daemon Princes "Daemon of x" rules are projected onto the whole daemons codex...
      Wait a minute, Tzeentch heralds can have a 2+ re-rollable invulnerable save? I want this codex now!

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    6. Sorry, I meant the Daemon of 'X' rules...

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    7. Oh, OK, that makes more sense.
      Thanks

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    8. @Jon Wilko: There's an iPad trial version of the Daemon codex???

      Where??? WHERE?????

      Please tell me how to find it! The tension is killing me, especially about Epidemius!...

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  25. So the psychic powers are a "Bad Bunch" I was hoping that they would be at least decent to add something special to the army... Wait, does this mean they are "bad" in the "badass" kind of way or just "bad" in the Bad kind of way?

    @mikey0987, you seem to be on the ball, any comment on the psychic abilities?

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    1. they are hit & miss. Nurlge has the best anti swarm powers, slannesh has the best anti combat powers & tzeench has the best anti tank/leader powers.

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  26. @mikey0987: Are the Flamers and Screamers much like the WD update?

    What's the numbers of the Great Unclean One?

    Do Bloodletters have Power Weapons or have they got something new?

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    1. flamers look the same as in white dwarf, I can't remember the GUO numbers. & blood letters do have power weapons from what I can remember.

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    2. Thank you very much for taking your time Mikey! With the old Bloodletters, this will be nasty against Terminators!

      Any thing at all about the new models which don't exist alrighty? How many new are there, anything special about them?

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  27. Thanks to mikey and the anonymous rumor submitter for both your input on stuff in the new codex. Rumors are very much appreciated, and any frustration people feel isn't meant to be directed at you or the anonymous individual who supplied the rumors. Thanks again.

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  28. Seems like pleague bearers got a huge buff in camping objectives. 3+ or 2+ cover saves on t5 is brutal.

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    1. Plus FNP as an option I think if herald joins unit and Nurgle guard dogs. :)

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    2. Yeah, Burgers, Beasts of Nurgle sound like they might be viable now, and I like how you put it, "as guard dogs"...

      I also really liked those Nurgle Plague Toads in the battle report! Gonna get me some of those when the money from my "side job" comes in at the end of this quarter... (Assuming, of course, that the Beasts of N actually do turn out to be good... But those Toads could also be used as "counts as" Spawn... Hmmmm...)

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    3. I'm 80% sure the plague toads were in the battle rep because that guy was like "uh...these beast of nurgle things are like 25 dollars and look awful, hey look plague toads are only 21.50!" (substitute british numbers, I translated to american)

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  29. I just checked out the preview for the iPad version of the dex and there is a page snap showing a new Warlord trait for daemons, as we'll as the warp storm table on the next page. Unfortunately, the pic is so small that it becomes u readable upon zooming. So close!

    Also, on the recommended products list there is a preorder for a new Eternal War: Chaos Daemons missions. That could be very cool! The new missions are entitled:

    Eternal Night
    Daemonic Invasion
    Laughter of Thirsting Gods
    Gibbering Hordes
    Beyond the Ken of Men
    Daemon World

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    1. @Murphy: how does one get the trial version of the Daemons dex for the iPad? Please, do tell!...

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    2. ??? Is this a thing from the App Store? If this is something that can be accessed on the wider net, then please post a link. If it is something only available on your device, then use a camera and take some pictures. then post/send them to Natfka

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    3. I just checked iBooks, and the Daemon dex is up for pre-order (which I did), but no sign of a "trial version". Unless what they're talking about are the photos of pages from the 2 Daemon books on the GW website under Digital Products... In which case, yes, definitely too small to read, and just a few teaser pages.

      But if there is an iPad-specific something out there somewhere, please fill us in on how to acquire it....

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  30. Okay, so what I'm thinking so far as to a little bit of the rumors starting to seem cheesy:

    So far we've heard that pink horrors have a "better save", and as mikey0987 pointed out, plaguebearers have a 4+ invuln earlier. Now that leads me to believe that they have a 3+ invlun.

    I've also heard that the entire army can get +1 invuln through the warp storm table, as well as fateweaver getting the re-rollable invulns. So, in short, I'm left believing that if you go with entirely pink horrors, you can have 2+ invulns, army-wide, and re-rollable saves from fateweaver...

    Anyone got any opinions on this?

    Let me know

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    1. Well for starters i think that the warp storm ability is random, my understanding is each turn you roll 2d6 and for that turn all your daemons have that effect for that turn, untill you roll again, so if at the start of your turn you roll two fives then thats a 10, which in WD they said you get the inv save boost(for a 10), but im quite sure its only for that turn, then next turn you roll again.

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    2. Honestly I think they've putten a cap on invulnerable saves. Looking at Codex CSM by Phil Kelly, the best you can get is a 3++ max-Tzeentched-out, which is also stated "up to a maximum of 3++". Since it's written by the same author I think this limitation will exist in Daemons as well. 2++ just sounds too nasty and unbalanced to be true.

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    3. That's only for the Mark of Tzeentch though, Daemons work differently. Especially if Horrors have a 3+ invulnerable save (and we know Fateweaver and likely Lords of Change will too) then it would be unfair if they couldn't benefit from that particular Warp Storm chart roll.
      Not to mention, the rumour suggests that our 'armour' saves are our invulnerable saves. Apparently, we can buy 2+ 'armour' for our Heralds and Greater Daemons.

      I might be wrong but I think they won't set a limit on it. And for the record, I can definitely understand paying 65 points for a 2+ 'armour' save if they indeed count as your invulnerable save. Imagine that on a Bloodthirster or a Great Unclean One....ridiculous. If that is accurate of course.

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    4. pink horrors start with 4++ save, they do not re-roll 1's but do have the mark of tzeench.

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    5. Huh? They are Daemons of Tzeentch, Daemons don't use marks. It is right there in print in the White Dwarf.

      I think you must have read it wrong.

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    6. your correct jack white, I did misread it. sorry

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    7. Hey no worries, I probably came off as a bit rude there. I was just like "huh, wha?" lol. Thanks mate, I really appreciate you giving us these by the way :)

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  31. Cant wait to mindshackle scarab me a bloodthirster ;)

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    2. cant wait to 'blood for the blood god!' me some spess egyptians. ;)

      (wait, do you have blood?)

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    3. Nope. For that is for flesh and flesh is weak.


      But oil...... oil for the oil god!!!

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  32. I can't see why people are complaining about the Plaguebearers. 12 points for a T5 model with a 4++ save, not to mention Shrouded and Poisoned Attacks? That's very fair to me.

    About the Pink Horrors - from the wording of the rumour (could mike please confirm) they are 19 points for a model with a 3++ with re-rolls of 1s? I assume they have the same profile as before. Now, before people jump up and down, they are only T3. However, they are also psykers now - meaning they can spout Divination/Tzeentch powers out like crazy depending on squad size. They sound fair to me as well.

    That Bloodthirster stat-line is a lot more believable than the one we saw in that earlier rumour. It sounds like they are around the 260 mark base as well? Re-rolling to hit and to wound is nuts.

    Also, a Keeper of Secrets that gets more attacks for every kill? Heralds that even when given a range of upgrades are only around the 100-110 mark? Cheap as chips Daemonettes with what amounts to Furious Charge? This sounds neat to me!

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    1. The complaint was before anyone said anything about a 4++, and they're also ws3 bs0 i2 with 1 attack base. CSM dropped 2 poits in cost and didn't lose a major special rule, and the cultist costs 4 points, so the question is, is a 5++ (what was assumed at the time of the comments) with shrouded better than 3 6+ t3 models. To that, I say no. 4++ changes it though. That said, I hate the nurgle = shrouded thing, because I hate relying on cover. Too many noise marines and Sternguard and thunderfires around. I'd pay 20 more points for my CSM DP to have T6 instead of shrouded.

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    2. To be fair though Ignores Cover long or medium range weapons that are AP4 are not as common as everyone would think, against Space Marines, yes, but not against most other armies. Plaguebearers have always been a unit with a primary role of objective-grabbing/sitting. If they do have a 4++ and Shrouded, then they are much better at that than they were before. Remember they are still T5, which is huge in today's game. Not to mention, it sounds like adding a Feel No Pain Herald is not expensive at all.

      I can understand initial frustrations, but they sound perfectly fine to me.

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    3. Agree on Jack White's comment. If Heralds are cheap, decently customizable + upgrades are ok then the PBs are good as they are rumoured to be.

      I can understand the frustration as I also favour Nurgle as well. In my book Nurgle stands for high toughness and having FnP. It's a shame they lost it.

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    4. Am I correct in thinking that PB can also go to ground again without fearless?

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    6. Well, CSM and SM both have a fair amount of ignores cover fire, but yeah its not a deal breaker, it just irritates me because I thought the toughness increase made sense, whereas being surrounded by flies = more survivable doesn't really make sense in 40k. I also just don't like the 40k cover mechanic very much.

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    7. Fair enough, whilst I agree it does seem like you are paying more for the same (taking a Herald with Feel No Pain) at least they are cheaper and you don't always need Feel No Pain to be tough objective-sitters.

      @Maxiei From the sounds of it Daemons are still treated as Fearless, so apparently not.

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    8. @Ian: Cover will save your ass from a LOT of shit, man! And it's easy to get a cover save, for the most part. I don't mean to tell you how to play your game, but my suggestion is to adapt and adopt to 6th Edition & use cover to your advantage! (But, yeah, watch out for those Heldrakes & Flamers, cuz they don't give a crap about cover. But that's where the 4++, if true,and T5 will help out. Not many SM players in my meta, so haven't had to deal with Thunderfire Cannons yet...)

      Just sayin'

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    9. Like I said above I don't remember seeing them as toughness 5, I thought I saw them at t4 - but I am not 100% sure.

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  33. I'm totally hoping that heralds are HQ but don't count against HQ choices. You essentially get an option to buy one for each troop you take. Then on that note, I REALLY hope that this includes named Heralds like Epi/Skulltaker/etc. This will still allow Nurgle players to have two MC out of HQ and still take Epi.

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  34. If my Great Unclean One is T8 and let's say 4 wounds, I'm going to be a happy little nurgling. Yea, he'll cost like... 300 points. I'm sure of it. But I just don't care if I'm bouncing plasma guns like space marine ignore Lasguns.

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    1. If these rumours are accurate, I would say that T8 and 6 wounds would be the most likely profile for it, as the above Bloodthirster has 5 wounds at T7. The Great Unclean One's weakness will be mobility - foot-slogging and Slow and Purposeful mean it won't get anywhere in a hurry. Ergo, it is a giant fire magnet that moves really slowly. But at T8 with 6 wounds and (likely) a 4+ invulnerable save, you wouldn't care. A lot of instant-death weapons wouldn't even be able tot touch you! If the Bloodthirster is around 240-250 base given it is around 290-310 with upgrades, you can bet the Great Unclean One would be in the 180-220 mark.

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    2. I would actually take a bit further. I would go so far as to say that he may have T8 and 6W given that if the above is correct these would be a 1up on the BT stats. I could also see FnP included as well. On top of that, upgrades to get "it will not die" and nurgling spawning. These just sort of make sense, given that "it will not die" seems almost custom made for Nurgle daemons.

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  35. Always so much QQ before even seeing the book. Just wait until you get the thing, obviously GW isn't going to make your army crap because they want to sell models, but it will probably mean adjusting your tactics and models you run in your army (That's the point, they want to sell you new ones).

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    Replies
    1. Play sphess mehreens! Your army is guarenteed victory!

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    2. Its the change thing I'd say. It was with me anyway. Instantly saw no FnP on plagues bearers and threw my toys out of the pram lol.
      Looking at it with a clear head now and actually starting to really like what I am hearing though I am still not liking that instability in there. Not so bad for mass troops but for more expensive less in a unit squads like Drones, it could be brutal. Losing one will trigger it and LD 7 isn't going to be much defense against it I don't think but we shall see.

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  36. Cool. I can pretty much live with these changes. I will still use my Pink Horrors, Daemonettes, Blood Letters and Plague Bearers as normal.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Its funny to read all the old demons players, the most imbalanced, overpowered, boring and impossible to play against codex of the late times, crying and complaining about not being upgraded... It makes you wonder where our hobby is going...

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    1. If you mean Daemons of Chaos, I agree with you. If you mean Chaos Daemons, I strongly disagree.

      Chaos Daemons were horrendously under-powered in 5th Edition, and in 6th Edition they only have two majorly competitive armies - flying monstrous creature spam, and Screamers/Flamers of Tzeentch spam. That is not the hallmark of an over-powered codex. Unbalanced though, that is most definitely accurate.

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    2. Chaos Daemons, as they are now, is a one trick pony-army. Like with every codex I think most players wants to play their very own army, picking units they like to play with.

      Saying people are crying and complaining their codex not being upgraded is kind of harsh. I think they simply want other units to be more appealing. I'm not saying it should be on the same scale as Flamers or Screamers. Having an overall point decreasement, on almost all troopslots, is a good step.

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    3. I neither care nor feel concerned over any change GW does to the codex. I love playing Daemons and find them to be a rich and enjoyable army to play. But- they are one of six armies that I own.

      I'm just going to buy the codex, roll with it, and enjoy playing.

      Besides- 12 point Plague Bearers! Sounds sweet to me. Shrouded? Cool- those pesky flies. Loss of Feel No Pain- YAWN. Could care less.

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