A massive rule dump has been made. The translations for them are below, as well as the original text.

This all comes to us via Bell of Lost Souls from GW Fanworld

English Translation 
via Norman Mach 

The old placement of the army is gone.
No flyers, but flying MCs.
Demons belong to a god and have hatred to demons of an opposing god. Furthermore a Slaanesh Herald for example can't joint nurgle demons.
Khorne: Furios charge, HoW with chariot is S7
Tzeentch: +3 on Ld for casting PSI, reroll of failded inv. saves of 1
Nurgle: Shrouded, slow (don't remember the english rule name), every unit consisting just of Nurgle Demons counts equiped with defence grenade
Slaanesh: Rending and fleet, Slaanesh-only unit runs D6+3". Slaanesh cavallerie runs 6" more. Vehicles (no walker) move 3" more in the shooting phase.

Demonic Instability
Units with these rule can't be joined by a model without these role. Unit pass every Ld., pinning or fear test. If the demons are loosing a CC they must test with 2D6. The difference between mod. Ld and dice roll is the number of additional wounds without saves!
Double 1: Every lost wound in this phase is restored. Every removed model comes back.
Double 6: Remove the whole unit.

Warlord:
1) Every CC weapon of the warlord gains instant death.
2)Warlord and unit has hatred against everyone
3) As long as the WL is alive every enemy gets -1 for fear tests
4) Friendly units choosen from these codex in 12" of the WL can reroll failed demonic instability tests
5) As long as the WL is alive you can reroll every roll on the warpfire table
6) As long as the WL was on the table at the beginning of the turn, every unit with the rule demon (including from Codex: Chaos) coming via deepstrike won't scatter if the first model is placed in 6" of the WL

Warpfire table
Is only active when demons are the main army. Role 2D6 at the beginn of the demon shooting phase and apply the result.
2) Every unit with demonic inst. (friend and foe) has to test for it
3) Choose randomly one character with demonic inst. rule. Test with 3D6. Wounds can only applied to the character.
4) Every unit with demon gets -1 for inv. saves until next roll on the table
5) Roll 1D6 for every unit not in CC which contains at least one model with the sign(?) of nurgle or demon of nurgle. If you roll a six place the 5" template on the model of the unit and scatter as normal. S4 AP5 for friend and foe, ignores cover.
6) Like Nr. 5 just for Tzeentch. D6 hits with S4 AP3. Ingores cover, poison (4+), vehicles get a hit at side armour.
7) Nothing happens.
8) Roll one D6 for every Khorne unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - D6 hits with S6 AP-. Ignores cover and rending, vehicles get a hit on the side armour.
9) Roll one D6 for every Slaanesh unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - place 3" template. Every unit (friend and foe) gets one hit for every model with S8 AP 3. Count as barrage weapon.
10) Every demon gets +1 on the inv. save.
11) Choose random one enemy Psyker (no vehicle, no demon, must be on the table). Has to take Ld test with 3D6, if he fails, he will be removed. Place a new herald of your choice without upgrades within 6". Not allowed to charge.
12) Place instantly a new unit with 2D6+3 demons (Bloodletters, pink horrors, demonettes or plague bearers, your choice) via deep strike,

Demons have 6+ armour, some have better saves (blood demon has 3+).
Blood demon no eternal warrior. The skulltaker(?) has eternal warrior and 3+ armour. Skarbrand and Karanak don't have eternal warrior. Lord of Change is Mastery Lv. 2 (divination and change(?)) and flying MC.
11 to15 pink horrors generate two warppoints, 16 to 20 horrors three warppoints. Kairos has a 4+ inv. save. Each of Kairos heads is a Lv. 4 Psyker. Both heads knew every change spell. In addition gains the right head on power from pyro and one divination. Left head - one pyro and one telepathy. Have to decide which head you use these turn. Can reroll one D6 every player turn (even from 2D6 or 3D6).
The blue Tzeentch demons are no psykers, but can use one power from the rulebook rolled with the dice without psy test.
Changeling in basecontact can replace one his stats (WS, S, T, I and/ or A) with one the enemy.
Big plague demon has mastery lv. 1 and plague and biomanty.
Nurgle slime beast can charge in the enemy phase! Ku'Gath can give wounds back to Nurgle Swarms.
Epidemus and his special rule
Count every unsaved wound caused by a demon of nurgle (friend and foe). Count even lost wounds saved by fnp or reanimation protocolls. Every Nurgle unit in 6" of Epidemus gains following bonus (cumulative)
7+: +1 strength
14+: +1 toughness
21+: poison (2+)
28+: fnp (4+)

Keeper of secrets has prefered enemy Eldar/ Dark Eldar. Mastery Lv. 1 telepathy and Slaanesh party lore.
The mask can reroll every failed inv. save. Has different dance.
There are chaos furies (maybe chaos harpyies in english).

Flame weapon of tzeentch - SR warpflame. At the end of every phase a unit with an unsaved wound caused by it has to make a Toughness test. Fail - D3 more hits withour armour or cover, passed - gains fnp 6+. If the unit has already fnp it be better by +1.
A unit hit by a skullcannon can be charged withount Ini loss caused by difficult terrain.
Axe of Khorne: Instant death by a to wound roll of 6.
Mutated warpsword (Tzeentch) If the bearer kills an enemy Character or MC roll a D6. On a +2 it be replaced with a chaos spawn.
Warp...(Tzeentch): A character or MC killed by the staff of change will explode. Every unit in D6" will gain D6 S5 AP- hits.
Plagueweapon: Models with one unsaved wound caused by these weapon have to pass a Toughness test or will loose another wound (no armour or cover).
Sword (Slaanesh). Like plagueweapon, but with Ini test.

A lot of characters don't buy equiment. They buy gifts in three different levels for points. What exacly these gifts are will be choosen random (D6). Roll at the same time as for the Warlord trait. One model can't have a gift twice (reroll), but you can have a gift more than one time in your army. You can replace one of the gifts with the 0. You gain a weapon or artefact for it (just one example given in the german text - Blade with Ap2, mastercrafted and special weapon).

Skarbrand or Blood Demon make demon princes of Khorne to Heavy Support instead of HQ.
Kairos and Lord of Change do the same for Tzeentch.
Ku'Gath and Big Nurgle demon for Nurgle.
Lord of Secrets does it for Slaanesh.

Damonprince 145 points, has to choose one god:
Khorne 15p.
Tzeentch 25p.
Nurgle 15p.
Slaanesh 10p.
Can be a flying MC for 40 points.
Up to 50 points for gifts (Lv. 1 gift 10p. Lv. 2 20p. Lv. 3 30).
Demon Prince not can be a psyker (not Khorne)
Mastery Lv. 1 25p.
Lv. 2 50p.
Lv. 3 75p.

Heralds counts only as a half HQ choice. They have special presences. which can be upgraded and give the unit a bonus.
Icons can be upgraded for unique effects and instruments can get more units out of reserve and give you rerolls on the warpstorm table.




Chaos Daemons in German
Am liebsten würde ich den Codex ja abfotografieren und sagen, dass ihr euch das selbst raussuchen sollt, aber dann würden die erst recht Amok laufen.

Ich gehe am besten mal die Reihe durch und fasse zusammen was so an netten neuen Sachen dabei ist (ohne den alten Codex zu haben, daher kann ich nicht vergleichen):

Es gibt keine Aufstellung mehr wie im vorherigen Codex mit Armee halbieren. Die Dämonen haben keine Flieger, aber mehrere fliegende monströse Kreaturen.

Dämonen haben eine Zugehörigkeit zu ihrer Gottheit und jeweis Hass auf die Dämonen der verfeindeten Gottheit. Weiterhin kann sich z.B. kein Herold des Slaanesh Seuchenhütern anschließen.
Khorne: Rasender Angriff, Niederschmettern von deren Streitwagen wird mit S7 abgehandelt
Tzeentch: Beim Manifestieren von Psikräften +3 auf den Moralwert, Wiederholung von Rettungswürfen auf die 1
Nurgle: Langsam und Entschlossen, Schleier, jede Einheit, die vollständig aus Nurgledämonen besteht, wird behandelt, als hätte sie Defensivgranaten
Slaanesh: Rüstungsbrechend und Sprinten, jede vollständig aus Slaaneshdämonen bestehende Einheit rennt 3" weiter (W6+3"). Besteht sie vollständig aus Kavalleriemodellen, so rennt sie 6" weiter. Fahrzeuge, die keine Läufer sind, bewegen sich bei Vollgas 3" weiter.

Dämonische Instabilität:
Einheiten mit dieser Regel dürfen keine Modelle ohne diese Regel aufnehmen. Besteht automatisch alle Angst-, Niederhalten- und Moraltests. Wenn eine Einheit Dämonen einen Nahkampf verliert, so muss sie stattdessen auf die Instabilität mit 2W6 testen:
Differenz aus modifizierten Moralwert und Ergebnis entspricht zusäztlichen Wunden, gegen die keine Schutzwürfe erlaubt sind.
Doppel 1: Alle Leben*****te die die Einheit in dieser Phase verloren hat, werden wieder hergestellt! Jedes Modell, dass in dieser Phase als Verlust entfernt wurde, erscheint wieder.
Doppel 6: Die gesamte Einheit wird als Verlust entfernt!

Kriegsherren:
1 Leibhaftiger Tod: Alle Nahkampfwaffen des Kriegsherren haben Sofort ausschalten
2 Vernichter der Sterblichen: Der kriegsherr und seine Einheit haben Hass (gegen alles)
3 Herold des Untergangs: Solange der Kriegsherr lebt, legen alle feindlichen Einheiten Angsttests mit -1 ab
4 Unsterblicher Anführer: Befreundeten Einheiten aus diesem Codex innerhalb um 12" des Kriegsherren dürfen misslungene Tests für dämonische Instabilität wiederholen
5 Fürst der Unrealität: Solange der Kriegsherr am Leben ist, darfst du jeden Wurf auf die Warpsturmtabelle wiederholen
6 Warpleuchtfeuer: Sofern sich der Kriegsherr zu Beginn des Spielerzuges auf dem Spielfeld befand, welchen befreundete Einheiten mit der Sonderregel Dämon (also auch was von CSM) die als Schocktruppe eintreffen nicht ab, wenn das erste Modell innerhalb von 6" um den Kriegsherren platziert wird.

Warpsturmtabelle:
Gilt nur, wenn Hauptkontingent Dämonen ist. Es wird zu Beginn der eigenen Schussphase mit 2W6 gewürfelt und das Ergebnis wird sofort abgehandelt.
2 Der Sturm flaut ab: Alle Einheiten mit der sonderregel Däm. Instabilität (Freund wie Feind) müssen sofort einen Test für Däm. Instabilität ablegen.
3 Von den Göttern bestraft: Ermittle zufällig ein Charaktermodell (Freund wie Feind) mit der Sonderregel Däm. Instabilität, das sich im Spiel befindet. Das Modell muss einen Test auf Däm. Instabilität mit 3W6 ablegen und dadurch entstandene Verwundungen können nur ihm zugeteilt werden.
4 Warpbeben: Alle Modelle mit Dämon erleiden -1 auf ihre Rettungswürfe bis du oder dein Gegner das nächste mal auf die Tabelle würfelt.
5 Sturm des Feuers: Wirf einen W6 für jede nicht im Nahkampf gebundene Einheit auf dem Spielfeld, die mindestens einen Dämon des Nurgle (oder min. ein Modell mit Mal des Nurgle) enthält oder eine feindliche Einheit ist. Bei einer 6 zentrierst du die 5" Schablone auf einem beliebigen Modell der Einheit und lässt sie dann abweichen. Jede Einheit (Freund wie Feind) erleidet so viele Treffer mit S4 DS5 wie Modelle der jeweiligen Einheit getroffen werden. Die Treffer haben Deckung ignorieren und Sperrfeuer.
6 Oh glorreiche Verwesung: Wirf einen W6 für jede nicht im Nahkampf gebundene Einheit auf dem Spielfeld, die mindestens einen Dämon des Tzeentch (oder min. ein Modell mit Mal des Tzeentch) enthält oder eine feindliche Einheit ist. Bei einer 6 erleidet die Einheit W6 Treffer mit S4 DS3. Die Treffer haben Deckung ignorieren und Gift(4+). Fahrzeuge werden in die Seite getroffen.
7 Warpstille: Es passiert nichts.
8 Der Dunkle Prinz dürstet: Wirf einen W6 für jede nicht im Nahkampf gebundene Einheit auf dem Spielfeld, die mindestens einen Dämon des Khorne (oder min. ein Modell mit Mal des Khorne) enthält oder eine feindliche Einheit ist. Bei einer 6 erleidet die jeweilige einheit W6 Treffer Mit S6 DS-. Die Treffer haben Deckung ignorieren und Rüstungsbrechend. Fahrzeuge werden in die Seite getroffen.
9 Khornes Zorn: Wirf einen W6 für jede nicht im Nahkampf gebundene Einheit auf dem Spielfeld, die mindestens einen Dämon des Slaanesh (oder min. ein Modell mit Mal des Slaanesh) enthält oder eine feindliche Einheit ist. Bei einer 6 zentrierst du die 3" Schablone auf einem beliebigen Modell der Einheit und lässt sie dann abweichen. Jede Einheit (Freund wie Feind) erleidet so viele Treffer mit S8 DS3 wie Modelle der jeweiligen Einheit getroffen werden. Die Treffer haben Sperrfeuer.
10 Warpflut: Alle Modelle mit Dämone erhalten +1 auf ihre Rettungswürfe bis das nächste mal auf die Tabelle gewürfelt wird.
11 Dämonische Besessenheit: Ermittle zufällig einen feindlichen Psioniker, der kein Fahrzeug ist und sich auf dem Spielfeld befindet und kein Dämon ist. Der Psioniker muss einen Moralwerttest mit 3W6 ablegen. Misslingt er, so platzierst du einen neuen Herold deiner Wahl um 6" des Psionikers. Der Psioniker wird entfernt. Der Herold befindet sich unter deiner Kontrolle und hat keinerlei Aufwertungen und ist wie andere Einheiten ihres Typs Siege*****te wert. Er darf im Spielerzug seines Erscheinens keinen Angriff ansagen.
12 Aus dem Warp beschworen: Eine neue Einheit aus 2W6+3 Zerfleischern, Rosa Horrors, Seuchenhütern oder Dämonetten (deiner Wahl) trifft sofort als Schocktruppe ein.

Dämonen haben einen 6+ Rüstungswurf! Manche auch besser, wie Blutdämon mit 3+ Rüstungswurf.
Blutdämon hat kein Ewiger Krieger. Der Schädelsammler hat 3+ RW und Ewiger Krieger. Skarbrand hat auch kein Ewiger Krieger. Karanak ebenfalls nicht.
Herrscher das Wandels hat Psi2 (Prophetie und Wandel) und ist eine fliegende monströse Kreatur.
11-15 Rosa Horrors erzeugen 2Warppunkte, 16-20 Rosa Horrors 3 Warppunkte.
Kairos hat einen 4+ Retter. Jeder von Kairos Köpfen ist ein Psioniker mit Psi4. Beide Köpfe kennen alle Kräfte aus Wandel. Zusätzlich erhält der rechte Kopf je eine Kraft aus Pyromantie und Prophetie und der linke Kopf je eine aus Telepathie und Piomantie. Zu Beginn deines Zuges gibst du an, welchen Kopf du nutzen willst. Er kann mit seinem Stab einen einzelnen Würfel pro Spielerzug neu werfen. auch von 2W6, 3W6 usw. Würfen, wobei immer nur ein einziger Würfel neu geworfen werden darf.
Die blauen Gelehrten sind keine Psioniker, aber können ohne Psitest eine durch würfeln ermittelte Psikraft aus dem Hauptregelwerk einsetzen.
Der Wechselbalg darf sich in Basekontakt mit einem gegnerischen Nichtfahrzeugmodell eines seiner eigenen Profilwerte von KG, S, W, I und/oder A durch das das Gegners ersetzen (bis zum Ende des Spielerzuges).
Großer Verpester hat Psi1 und wählt aus Biomantie und Seuche.
Schleimbestien des Nurgle können in den gegnerischen Phase Angriffe ansagen!
Ku’Gath kann Nurgleschwärmen Leben*****te zurückgeben.
Epidemus und sein Seuchenzins:
Solange Epidemus lebt, führst du über alle nicht durch einen Schutzwurf verhinderte Verwundungen Buch, die von Dämonen des Nurgle (Freund wie Feind) angerichtet werden. Darüber hinaus zählst du auch Leben*****tverluste, die durch etwas anderes als einen Schutzwurf verhindert wurden (z.B. Verletzung ignorieren oder Reanimationsprotokolle). Am Anfang jedes deiner Züge konsultierst du die Tabelle. Alle Dämonen des Nurgle in Einheiten die sich innerhalb von 6" um Epidemus befinden erhalten die Boni (kumulativ):
7+: +1Stärke
14+: +1 Widerstand
21+ Gift (2+)
28+ Verletzung ignorieren (4+)
Hüter der Geheimnisse hat Erzfeind Elder & Darkeldar. Und Psi1 aus Telepathie und Exzesse.
Die Maske wiederholt jeden misslungenen Rettungswurf. Die Maske hat verschiedene Tänze.
Es gibt CHAOSFURIEN.

Flammenwaffen des Tzeentch:
Haben alle die Sonderregel Warpflammen. AM Ende jeder Phase in deren Verlaufe eine Einheit mindestens einen nicht verhinderen Lepun*****tverlust durch sowas erlitt, muss sie einen Widerstandstest ablegen. Vergeigt sie diesen erleidet sie W3 weitere Wunden ohne erlaubte Rüster oder Decker. Besteht sie ihn, erhält sie Verletzung ignorieren (6+), falls sie schon Verletzung ignorieren hat, sie wird es um +1 verbessert. Das Chaos ist launish!

Schädelkanone: Von der Schädelkanone getroffene Einheiten können diese Runde angegriffen werden, ohne dass der Angreifer Initiativeabzug durch schwieriges Gelände erhält.
Axt des Khorne hat bei einem Verwundungswurf von 6 Sofort ausschalten.
Mutierte Warpklinge (Tzeentch): Tötet der Träger ein feundliches Charaktermodell oder monströse Kreatur, so wird dieses auf 2+ in eine Chaosbrut verwandelt.
Warpverderben (Tzeetch): Wenn ein Charaktermodell oder monströse Kreatur seinen letzen Leben*****t durch eine Nahkampfattacke des Stab des Wandels verliert, explodiert das Opfer. Alle einheiten innerhalb von W6 Zoll um das Opfer (einschließlich der Träger und andere befreundete Einheiten) erleiden W6 Treffer mit S5 DS-.
Seuchenflegel: Modelle die einen nicht verhinderten Leben*****tverlust durch diese Waffe erleiden, müssen einen Widerstandstest bestehen oder sie verlieren einen weiteren Leben*****t, gegen denen keine Rüster oder Decker erlaubt sind.
Geisträuber-Schwert (Slaanesh): Modelle die einen nicht verhinderten Leben*****tverlust durch diese Waffe erleiden, müssen einen Initiativetest bestehen oder sie verlieren einen weiteren Leben*****t, gegen denen keine Rüster oder Decker erlaubt sind.

Viele Charaktermodelle kaufen sich keine direkte Ausrüstung, sondern geringe, mächtige oder erhabene Belohnungen für bestimmte Punkte. Was diese Belohnung dann ist, wird zufällig ermittelt (W6). Dies geschieht zum Zeitpunkt in dem die Begabung des Kriegsherren ermittelt wird. Belohnungen dürfen in der Armee doppelt auftauchen, aber ein Modell muss immer verschiedene haben. Wiederholt sich ein Ergebnis, würfle solange, bis ein anderes kommt. Man kann anschließend je eine einzelne Belohnunge (gering, mächtig und/oder erhaben) eines Charaktermodells durch die 0 ersetzen. Das wäre dann magische Waffe, mächtige magische Waffe und höllengeschmiedetes Artefakt.

Geringe Belohnungen:
0 Magische Waffe: Dämon erhält Ätherklinge (DS2, Meisterhaft, Spezielle Waffe), Dämon des Khorne erhalt eine Axt des Khorne, Dämon des Tzeentch einen Stab des Wandels, Dämon des Nurgle einen Seuchenflegel und Dämon des Slaanesh ein Geistrüber-Schwert.
So zieht sich das dann durch. Mal schauen, ob ich die ganzen Belohnungen noch abtippe. Es sind jedenfalls echt nette Sachen dabei.

Skarbrand oder Blutdämon machen aus Dämonenprinzen des Khorne Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.
Kairos oder Herrscher des Wandels machen aus Dämonenprinzen des Tzeentch Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.
Ku’Gath oder Großer Verpester machen aus Dämonenprinzen des Nurgle Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.
Hüter der Geheimnisse macht aus Dämonenprinzen des Slaanesh Unterstützungsauswahlen statt HQ.

Dämonenprinz kostet nackt 145 Punkte. Er muss zu einem Dämon einer Gottheit werden:
Khorne 15P
Tzeentch 25P
Nurgle 15P
Slaanesh 10P
darf zur fliegenden monströsen Kreatur werden 40P
darf bis zu 50P an dämonischen Belohnungen wählen in beliebiger Kombination:
geringe Belohnung je 10P
mächtige Belohung je 20P
erhabene Belohhnung je 30P
Dämonenprinzen, welche nicht zu Khorne gehören, dürfen Psioniker werden:
Psi1 25P
Psi2 50P
Psi3 75P

Herolde zählen weiterhin je nur einen halben HQ Platz. Herolde haben bestimte Präsenzen, welche aufgewertet werden können und der Einheit Boni bescheren.

Ikonen können verbessert werden für einmalige Effekte und Instrumente können weitere Einheiten aus der Reserve holen und die unliebsamen Ergebnisse auf der Warpsturmtabelle zu Gunsten der Dämonen abschwächen durch Wiederholungswürfe.

152 Comments:

  1. scroll down

    http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/02/monster-chaos-daemons-rumors-in-german.html

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    1. PLEASE READ!
      Dakkadakka Daemon Rumours Thread: one of the members is translating this much more accurately. Clears up a lot of translation errors.

      Delete
  2. @ natfka: could you delete the first sentence in the german part, please?

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  3. You buy gifts... Huh, that sounds cool.
    There are three levels... Pretty neat.
    And you roll on a table for each one to see what you get... WTF?! +++Censored by the Holy Inquistion+++ Kelly, you will pay for this. Just imagine the army list: Daemon Prince with Daemon of Tzeentch, Mastery Level 3, 30pt random roll, 20pt random roll.
    It doesn't matter what each gift does, if they are not all intended for the same thing, i.e. Combat, or Psychic powers, I cannot plan anything. No tactics, nothing. Roll on another bleeding table, and hope you get what you want. You cannot put in your army list for synergy with other units, because you probably won't get that one upgrade that you really want/need for your army to work together.
    Rant temporarily over.

    Wait, no EW for Skarbrand? F*** THIS S***!

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    1. BUT CHAOS IS BORING WITHOUT RANDOM! WHAT'S THE FUN WITHOUT RANDOM IN CHAOS?!!

      Yeah, its dumb as hell.

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  4. I hope I'm not the first to think, what the hell is going on and was Phil Kelly high when he wrote this.

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. I think a GK held a plasma cannon to his head while writing it, I can think of no other explanation for this ass of a codex..

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    3. He found Slaneesh disturbing, Khorne too violent, Nurgle too fetid, and Tzeentch just plain weird. So he nerfed them all, and put in the Warpstorm Table so that it was better to take a mono-god army.
      Alternative explanation: HE DOES COCAINE! (Metalocalypse :D).

      Delete
    4. Explanation 3: while writing this codex, he simultaneously attempted to beat Doomrider at a cocaine snorting competition.

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    5. Good job I kept all my square bases, I don't think even Ward could of done a worse job.

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    6. Explanation 4: Stupid Daemons, winning tournaments. We'll randomize that **** right up!

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    7. Explanation 5: Nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, random table, nerf, nerf, nerf, (stops to think), Murgle are the squishy right? nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf and random table! Job done!

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    8. That last comment still makes more sense than this dex.. I need a new keyboard :/

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    9. That comment is brilliant. Do you mind if I put that into my sig. on DakkaDakka?

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    10. Lol if like. Put in brackets though its late and he has had a few. :P

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    11. Haha in a previous post I referred to this table as "LSD and pop rocks gaming" and yesterday I suggested the pricing on cultists was due to a Phil Kelly ether binge since cultists were so much better than that day's lesser daemon rumors. So yeah, you're not far off ;)

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    12. What?! Why do daemons formed from swirls of emotion and ruled by gods who are pure chaos have an element of unpredictability to their rules! I'm telling the Lord of Change on you guys! He's not going to be happy that we have to roll on random tables!
      Seriously, these rules make so much more sense than the last set. It's Chaos! It should be crazy and random. To me, this looks like a blast to play!

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    13. Not when three quarters of the results are bad.

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    14. If I take a mono-god army, there are inherent weaknesses. Therefore, the strongest army is probably a mixture, as it will be the most balanced. Oh wait, now it's quite likely your units will randomly die because of the Warpstorm Table.

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    15. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    16. As my previous comment was a bit rude, I'll just re-enforce the notion that you really should wait until the codex is out. There is so much we don't know. Just take a step back, take a deep breath and calm down. At least give the codex a chance by looking at points costs and the like. Chaos Space Marines would have been thrown into the bin as well if people judged it solely on rules rumours.

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    17. Blahblahblah, should wait until codex comes our blahblah

      I think I heard this trash before 4th and 5th chaos codex came out.

      Put a blindfold on yourself as much as you want, this will turn out as true.

      Delete
    18. The mixed army actually gives you the chance to spread your losses, where as a mono god army could be devastated by a single bad luck roll. Remember it's after the result happens, you THEN have to roll a 6 for each unit... Not to mention it still aims for ALL enemy units...

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  5. Hmm this sounds interesting and chaotic.

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  6. So Skulltaker has EW, yet Skarbrand does not? Wat?

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    1. My German isn't particularly fluent, but that is definitely what it says in the original text.
      This makes Abaddon and Skulltaker both more important to the Chaos Gods than Skarbrand.
      KELLY!

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    2. to be fair, abaddon and skulltaker are chosen (abaddon = all gods, skulltaker = just khorne) while skarbrand was punished by khorne :p

      not that I support these changes in any way, doubt i'll use my demons in 40k again the way things are looking.

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    3. You can give them to me then.

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    4. Skarbrand isn't exactly favoured by Khorne....

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  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  8. Random gifts looks pretty neat fluff wise, and sounds fun. But sincerely, from a tactical perspective, were're pretty f*****.

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    1. Still I can't think of anything positive about the "Nerf" Storm table; Cool concept, abominable way to express it.

      Delete
    2. It would be infinitely been better if 8+ were buffs to the Demon army in increasing value, while 6 and under were nerfs. Sadly.... these are way out of proportion..

      Delete
    3. Since we're supposed to be going for narrative, I find the randomness kinda annoying. I'd much rather have a big chart with custom stuff I can buy. I'd love to make a bespoke daemon weapon with different characteristics or downsides, or buy my lord special stats that separate him from anyone else's lord. Instead its buy a gift and pray. I get that it's chaotic in a literal sense, but I don't think its inherently fluffy. I do think the random charts could be fun if used in a narrative campaign where you keep the results from game to game (maybe you could lose them on a 4+ if its a long campaign lol), but then you have to make a similar thing for the other armies. I wanted the 6th books to bring more customization and fluff options, but I'm still ok with it, its just disappointing.

      Delete
    4. What model in the unit for rules 5,6,8,9? Plus the 5' blast isn't even one of the standard template sizes is it? I'm not convinced these are genuine.

      Delete
    5. And before anyone asks, yes, I have the realm of chaos books but nobody wants to play 1st edition with me :P
      (and yes, they're the real books not scans, but they belong to my step dad technically)

      Delete
    6. I think the Warp Storm chart is fine, it really is not as bad as you would think. The chances of you suffering casualties from it are only a small percentage more than your opponent. And it has as much chance to make your units a lot more durable as it is to reduce their durability. So its random. Is random bad? For tournament players, sure. But what if the cost/effectiveness of units makes them viable regardless of the randomness?

      Delete
    7. I'm not mad about the table, but it does seem like an unnecessarily complicated extra step to add to the game. I don't want the board to play my opponent, I want to play my opponent. I don't think that's unreasonable.

      Delete
    8. That's fair, but in a way, I think it is a cool, fluffy addition. It has as much chance of hurting you as it would hurting your opponent.

      Delete
  9. I have a new question for everyone, how did this make it through play testing?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Copious amounts of drugs and booze I think

      Delete
    2. In order to speed up the Codex (TM) Release Schedule (R), Games Workshop regret to announce that Playtesting (C) will be cancelled with immediate effect. 1/8/11.

      Delete
    3. Bad codex based on not even knowing any points costs for units at this stage or the full rules. Right.

      Delete
    4. Yep rumor rage! Its the best! You should try it some time. :P

      I pray and I hope people are right and this is all BS but as a mono Nurgle player and seeing those rules, keeping a level head ain't possible sorry. I'm sure you would be same fearing your army was about to be nerfed this bad.

      Delete
    5. I play Thousand Sons, Tzeentch Daemons, Dark Eldar, and Tyranids. Believe me when I say I know how it feels. But I never let it get to me as I remember two things.
      1) It's not set in stone.
      2) If they are true, we still don't know points costs.

      Even if the codex turns out to be bad, I'm still happy to make it work. I explore options I didn't consider before. Take Thousand Sons now. Paired with Ahriman, I can save points on Rhinos and pop a nasty scoring unit right up in my opponents back-field/midfield. Expensive, yes. Good is a matter of opinion, but I make it work. It all comes down to the individual in the end.

      Delete
    6. Well I hope you are right and couple of days we will see for sure.

      Delete
    7. Tsons are epic btw. Best HQ build in CSM dex is a Tson lord IMO in termi armor and black mace. absolutely brutal!

      Delete
    8. Well anything that isn't a multi-wound model, with very few exceptions, gets almost no worthwhile benefit from the Mark of Tzeentch. Meanwhile, Thousand Sons are still over-costed units that don't fit in a balanced army in games of 1500 points or less. Our psychic powers are also the worst of a mediocre bunch, with the exception of Doombolt.

      Personally I think either the Khorne Juggernaught Lord or the 2+/3++ Lord with chainfist and lightning claw are the best combos.

      Delete
  10. So how do you model random upgrades? Also, daemon prince HQ makes sense now. Daemon prince outranks a herald so they'd be in command but greater daemons outrank daemon princes. Simple, fluffy and I like it!
    More randomness... Eh, I'll need a white board or something to take note of all these random things xD

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did you not hear? GW have bought out Playdough. Now we can make upgrades on the fly!

      Delete
    2. Model random upgrades? You don't. You put the base down on the table, roll to see what you get, and spend the rest of the day playing with liquid green stuff, telling your opponent you're "just making the model WYSIWYG". With a bit of luck, they'll concede the game, so you can claim victory with a codex so retarded it makes Twilight look like Lord of the Rings.

      Delete
    3. no what you SHOULD do is buy 6 of the model and make each one correspond to the different rolls, and just bring all 6 with whenever you play. Im sure that what all the deamon players will be doing from now on( or at least the ones who won the lottery :/ )

      Delete
    4. As long as you mark it somewhere on a piece of paper, no one will harangue you about the model. Just use what you already had/assembled.

      Delete
    5. *slow clap* Well played Mr Shrike.

      Delete
  11. Double 6's on Daemonic instability >:)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That means what again sorry? I'm having trouble keeping.. Oh nevermind! I just wiped myself out anyway.

      Delete
  12. Randomness is fun when it involves half important sub-aspects of a game, and when it's justified in some way, for the sake of fluff at least.

    But this 6th ed random charts and stuff on everything is getting pretty unbearable, IMHO.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This sums up everything. You win.
      Actually, roll a dice. On a 4+ you win, and get the internetz, if you fail, Kelly devours your soul.
      There, that seems random enough that it will probably be in a codex soon.

      Delete
    2. At this point, why not. At least it would save you the head ache. (y)

      Delete
    3. @ -Shrike- That will be Codex: Eldar! :D

      Delete
  13. Yuck. Was looking forward to starting a Daemons army.. Randomness for some small things is fun and interesting... Randomness for the whole damn army limits you tactically and is annoying.

    I'm going to need some serious pen and paper to write down everything that's going on and what does what.

    ReplyDelete
  14. This is a rumor dump not set in atone

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. while that's true, the images we have from the preview of the iBook codex confirmed the existence of this chart, its the details that are rumors.

      Delete
  15. CSM's new flashy dex seduced me exclusevely by its artwork, while I was gravely dissapointed by the actual, overall feeling of the army, game wise that is. I'm sure Daemons will feel just the same.

    At least we still have fantasy, maybe Matt Ward actually did a better job, who knows these days..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And on a last and final note; Plaguebearers losing FNP is just awesomely retarded. It litteraly offended me. That's how bad it is.

      Delete
    2. Just look at the new tally if you really want to see just how bad they are.. I hope a GUO farts in his general direction one day for what he has done to us. Seriously f'd off right now.

      Delete
    3. Do either of you know the points cost of each unit? Do either of you remember that Heralds grant Feel No pain and other abilities to said Plaguebearers? For all we know, they have better base saves than before and are a lot cheaper. You do not know the full story. Wait until the codex is out before writing it off completely.

      And also, the complaint about the Tally is laughable. It was a defining feature of a broken army list. Are you seriously complaining about that? I'm stoked they nerfed it - it means we will see more varied Nurgle lists as opposed to 'Epidemius + other stuff'.

      Delete
    4. Broken? You only had to snipe out Epidemius - that wasn't hard under 6th edition rules for wound allocation.

      Delete
    5. You are denying it was a cheese list? Sniping out Epidemius is hard if you protect him correctly actually.

      Delete
    6. The Tally basically just makes PB's what they were as standard last dex and only if they are in a 6" bubble. That is what I meant by look at the tally to see how big the nerf to them is.

      Delete
    7. I'm in the minority of nurgle players who own epidemius but don't field him. I hated having to play around a big target that exclusively buffed other units. That said, the buffs were great, and his effects were clearly built around 5th edition, so I don't mind the changes (although I wish there was an AP buff because nurgle daemons do jack against armored opponents currently, only our MC's have AP) ...but limiting his buff to codex daemons units just seems stupid. I thought the whole allies and having both dexes written by Kelly thing would get us more synergy, not less. I'm 99% certain the Daemon Prince force org shift will be when daemons are the primary detachment too. Plus seems like its only wounds caused by daemons of nurgle that count toward the tally, which makes very little fluff sense but, whatever. I'm still reserving my judgement till I see a book.

      Delete
    8. I'm guessing that Kelly was of the mind that each codex should stand on its own, and that synergies were purely unit based; i.e. Heldrakes with Daemon Princes, Soul Grinders with Forgefiends, Thousand Sons with Screamers, etc. I don't necessarily agree but I can see what he was going for; he's also probably trying to reduce the amount of potential unforeseen cheese combinations.

      Delete
  16. Csm codex is great. Its a balanced codex same as dark angels and we need more of them. We dont need another grey knight or necron flyer spam codex.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah CSM is balanced and a great dex I agree, I'm not sure what the hell this is though.

      Delete
    2. Gotta say, I'm expecting great things from the second sixth edition chaos codex Kelly writes, seeing as the first was surprisingly well-made.

      *shrug*

      Too little information, too scattered, to say what's going on at this point.

      If the rumors said about CSM that they would have the random boon chart, zombies as a special character unlock, S8 plasma cannons, special raptors, melee obliterators and a giant dragon daemon engine, we would be speculating like crazy, probably completely missing the mark of what's actually in the book.

      Delete
    3. The rumors did say most of that at around same time just before release of csm. Only thing I was bothered about then was only being able to take 10 zombies which ended up being wrongly written anyway. The rest I thought was good. This on other hand is a whole new level of WTF.

      Delete
    4. I agree. The level of randomness is a bit excessive, but we have to wait and see all the effects (i.e. daemonic rewards) before we can accurately say "random = bad". I don't mind it, but it will get annoying micro-managing all that stuff. However, for all we know the army could be very powerful otherwise.

      Delete
  17. Don't worry there is still a random table yet to be seen, I heard its along the lines of..

    Roll D3 on deployment, 1-2 auto win daemons, 3-4 auto win opponent 5-6 Kelly materializes out of no where with a hoover and sucks up all your daemon models while shouting "warp storm go!" and then casually walks out door whistling.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That is brilliant. And it feels like that's the way the codex is going!

      Delete
    2. LMAO, that made my night Burgers

      Delete
  18. Double 6 is no worse than a whole unit being over runwhen you loose a moral check its just slightly different, no whines about double 1 is see. Not that the odds are different, that unit of 20 bloodletters you killed to a man just returned.. As for random gifts- expect them yo be all useful abd require no modleing. Things like manifesting an anti psychic aura or skin of fire or metal and effects like that. I like the sound of this codex not bland like the last one.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Some common sense at last.....the initial shock seems to have really hit home for a lot of people. I still can't believe people are saying "it's a bad codex/pile of pooh" when we still don't know the most important factor - cost. Double 6s for Daemonic Instability is terrible, but Double 1s for Daemonic Instability is amazing. Yet everyone only seems to focus on the Double 6s....

      Delete
    2. This may actually be good for me as I seem to roll constant 1's.....lol

      Delete
  19. Double 6 is no worse than a whole unit being over runwhen you loose a moral check its just slightly different, no whines about double 1 is see. Not that the odds are different, that unit of 20 bloodletters you killed to a man just returned.. As for random gifts- expect them yo be all useful abd require no modleing. Things like manifesting an anti psychic aura or skin of fire or metal and effects like that. I like the sound of this codex not bland like the last one.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I actually didn't mention it, but now you've brought it up...
      Essentially:
      Double 1 - you win.
      Anything else - welcome back, 5th edition fearless!
      Double 6 - you lose.
      Any problems? To me, it just seems a bit pointless.

      Delete
  20. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps Kelly is really an agent of khorne, loves tricycles, and wants his followers to get so enraged that they spill blood for the blood god.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. Ahh, the wonders of the internet. Where one can spout any hatefilled gibberish about the author of a toy soldiers book from the security of ones bedroom.

      Delete
    4. That has to be the most laughable comment I've ever seen. A person writing a book for a hobby deserves to die because they didn't meet your expectations? Not only that, you make this claim even when you don't know half of the full picture? Cool stuff. Excuse me whilst I die of laughter.

      Delete
    5. "I have never seen an action so intolerant and without regard for anyone else that care about an issue."

      Seriously? This is the worse action you have ever seen? Dude, its a game. Kelly did not kill anyone. Take a chill pill. Try again.

      Delete
  21. Daemons definitely needed a nerf. Thanks Kelly for making my army even more unplayable.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I is in your codex, nerfing your models!
      On a side note, which is now more unplayable, Daemons or Tyranids? Let the battle begin!... The battle of crippled, horrifically overpriced, nonsensical units and 1 or 2 random models of GK levels of overpowered!

      Delete
    2. It's like 2011 all over again :)

      Delete
    3. It's funny because the only one of my friends that isn't a powergaming jerk is a Nid.

      Delete
    4. Do you have the codex? Yes/no? If yes, sure, you are entitled to your opinion. If no, your comment is invalid as you have less than half of the full story to base it on. We don't even know any points costs yet, and there are a lot of rules we don't know. Wait until Saturday before you make this kind of comment.

      The same thing was said about Chaos Space Marines too. Look how they turned out - i.e. not as bad as people made them out to be. Once the shock wears off, remember that it hasn't been released yet and we still know very little. Heldrakes sounded bad first up, until everyone found out how cheap they were.

      Delete
    5. I'm still going to play them. This is just commenting on what we know so far.
      I love the Khorne Murdercycle though.

      Delete
  22. what the german post didnt have is that Plaguebearers sword have the touch of rust, which means they auto glance on a armour pen roll of a 6 much like the necrons gauss ability`

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nothing is automatic in this book. It's chaotic after all. Are you sure you didn't miss out rolling on a random table to see what you might do after rolling to wound? :D

      Delete
    2. nope, the plaguesword has an ability called Touch of Rust which autoglances when you roll a 6 for armourpen unless it would otherwise pen the vechile. there is another nurgle based weapon with that special rule aswell which im assumin heralds can take from their demonic gift allowance

      Delete
    3. Thank you. It's unfortunate that Nurgel will still be so damned slow, but that's how it works.
      Some people are going bonkers over the random roll tables. While I'm not a fan of the Warp Storm table myself, I have no real complaints for the random gifts rolls. The various limitations (only one result per army for example) means that if I really want a heralds with one of the buffs for a specific roll, I'll need to be rolling on the same chart with multiple characters.
      And we don't know everything. These demonic gifts will be random, but I think there's also a non-random table, and you can always default to their melee weapon option. These melee weapons sound very effective given what has been said.

      Delete
  23. RAUGH-
    actually,
    you know what,
    Daemons sucked when I started, and if (not-confident if) they go back to sucking, SO BE IT. I became an amazing general because I had to beat my way past every kick in the nuts daemons threw at me, and I will GLADLY do it again.

    Challenge accepted, Phil Kelly. Let's make people surprised to see Daemons again, let their guard down, then wreck them. It'll be fun. *sinister grin*

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just make sure you don't roll double 1's, 2's or 6's ever to be safe. In fact leave doubles alone completely! In fact burn those die and get out while you still can!

      Delete
    2. My sentiments as well.... i was just hoping for less randomness on important stuff

      Delete
    3. I'm not insulting you, Burgers, I'm honestly curious: did you play daemons in 5th?

      Pray to god you don't scatter, all the mishap results will make your bloodcrushers worthless, either dead, unable to affect the game, or too late.

      Pray your chariots of tzeentch got close enough to hurt a tank first turn, or you won't be able to assault the contents until T3, tops.

      Pray they don't bring AV13, because Bolt of Tzeentch and assault is the best you got against it, and they can kill your assault pretty easy in the turn it's standing around doing nothing.

      You were lucky to have 3 bolts of tzeentch on the table at any moment, and less units of troops. If you were able to bring stuff in from reserve faster than they could kill it, you had a chance. If the dice didn't want you too...

      well, your opponent would easily be facing about 400 pts of stuff every turn, able to do nothing but wait a turn, and shoot it with their full 2000 pts of army.

      Those battles were tense, and you could kiss your win goodbye 80% of the time, before the game even started, if you didn't get your preferred wave.

      And they would be hopeless in 6th if it weren't for the WD update.

      The codex can only be a good thing. I have high hopes.
      (sorry for the essay

      Delete
    4. Oh SnaleKing you are a gentleman after my own heart. I remember being decimated by Tau of all armies, completely tabled. They were my first army and I had to learn how to beat my opponents with less than half my army. If luck was with me and I did not lose half my army to mishaps they were horribly delayed. Heaven help the poor soul if all my units came down without incident! Happened once 3 years ago and I tabled my opponent by turn 2.
      I am with you, if things really are bad, then the gloves are off and I am ready to dirty!

      Delete
  24. Honestly, I have no idea what to believe at this point. Some of these rumors coming out seem plausible, but I don't believe all of them are for real. We still have 4 more days until we ALL know for sure what is happening to this Codex. I for one am really excited, and am doing my best to ignore all of these fast and furious rumors.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm picking up what you're throwing down.

      We'll see.
      we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

      Delete
  25. Lawn chair- check,
    Popcorn- check.
    Plenty of Nerd Rage- check.
    Plenty of Internet Warrior Ass Hats- check.
    Games Workshop Hatred- check.

    Sit back, enjoy a bunch of idiots spouting and frothing at the mouth about the new Daemons release and laugh my ass off.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You forgot some bottles of good german beer.
      You can have some of mine, if I can have some of your popcorn, Wizzy Noise. ;-)

      Seriously folks, just calm down, get the codex, read through it several times and within 3 weeks everyone will be happy again. It's been the same nerd rage with everything that GW has released lately. It's getting really boring.
      And if you can't stand what GW is doing to their products, just leave. Noone will miss you rage kids!

      Cheers!

      Delete
    2. You took the words out of my mouth - both of you. Well said.

      I can understand the initial shock when rules are released, and these are some major changes. But still, we don't even have a clue about the codex as a whole - points costs and other special rules will make all the difference in the world. And what we know so far isn't even as bad as people are making it out to be. So my unit dies on a double 6. It also gets regrown on a double 1.

      Delete
    3. haha, I got some nerdrage to spare, though I don't think you want any. :P

      It's easy to get lost in that which we spend so much time and money, I suppose.
      I'm pretty tense about it, because if this codex turns out well, I won't have to change my (Daemon primary, CSM ally) army until seventh edition.

      Delete
  26. I think this really depends on what sort of upgrades are available from those tables. Also, what makes this rumor dump more credible than previous ones? Yes there are more details, but nothing I myself could not have thought up in about 30 minutes or so. Until we get a really good in depth tactica, I will continue to hold my breath. Also, not everything mentioned is totally off the wall. Again context is what we need. If these are even slightly accurate, daemons will at least be fun to play!

    ReplyDelete
  27. Theres no way any of this is true. It really just sounds like someone came up with the absolute worst things imaginable, put way too many tables cuz its Kelly's "thing", added some common rumors to sound true and wrote it in german to sound like it's from some deep inside source somewhere. Well I don't believe it for a second. Phil Kelly isn't perfect but he's done good work and this isn't it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well the only chink I can find in these rumors (and one might be enough) is the random daemonic gifts. They definitively exist in some form for Fantasy. But if these gifts are actually the daemonic loci mentioned in the WD, then we have an issue, as I believe those were chosen. So you may be quite correct.

      Delete
  28. There seems to be a pattern of nerd rage based on rumors without seeing the actual codex.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You sir are very correct. Codexes give contexts. without a complete picture including comprehensive point costs and abilities, we can just guess. Still in my mind, the only totally reliable information comes from what little we know from the White Dwarf. That being said I eagerly ingest every little rumor that comes along. Daemons are my main army, I've got over 4000 points of them (under the current regime) and I want this badly!

      Delete
    2. This happend with the CSM and DA dex and it will happen with the next book and so on.


      Not everyone will love the book of course. But thats understandable. But pre-rage isnt really.

      Delete
    3. Yep, nerd-rage seems to be a steeple of the community. But I won't totally condemn people for it. I remember how optimistic I was about the Beastmen army book. I was so looking forward to fielding the new big gribblies. I have a scratchbuilt cygor sitting on my shelf that I have been painstakingly sculpting for the better part of 2 years. Yet the book has been admitted as underpowered since it's advent. The army gets a bonus 250 points at some tournaments to make up for poor design elements. Please note I don't blame Kelly for this but a number of other factors.

      Regardless, we will get what we get. GW knows that the heavy spenders are the competitive players and fluffy players. Whatever comes I think we will receive something we can have a lot of fun with.

      Delete
    4. Would love a fun and balanced dex much more than a powerful dex

      Delete
  29. He had to DS in. Have fun with your CSM icons which no longer work with DS scatter. You want to protect him? Go ahead, and scatter. At least one Daemon unit had to run the gauntlet and try and get an icon down to protect Epidemius.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Some screenshots from the new Fantasy codex via Warseer:

    http://imgur.com/a/Oulir

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Might have to buy the DoC army book too. But from what I see, maybe the rules above are best guesses based on the WHFB book, or they are totally unequivocally legitimate. If that is the case then who really wrote each book? If they are this similar in character, even down to stat-lines, then it seems Kelly and Ward were in very close cahoots for this release. They both wrote the same book just for different systems.
      One thing I find curious is the warpstorm double 6 result being exactly the same in both books. Such things are relatively common in fantasy. Summoning units onto the battlefield is part of the game, while in 40k this would make daemons pretty unique. Not really complaining (kind of tempted to file me some dice...just kidding), but 2d6+3 sounds a bit excessive for 40k, while it sounds about right for Fantasy.

      Delete
    2. 2D6+3 is 5 to 15, with the average being 10, which is a typical unit size. Makes sense to me, if you get the uber-great roll for this boon to begin with...

      Delete
  31. http://fundaemons.blogspot.com/2013/02/more-rules.html

    ReplyDelete
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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. Interesting overall. The one thing I find very curious is BS5 bloodletters? Unless they can throw spears or something, this is very odd. However I guess fielding a small squad of them to man a quad gun could work as with 1 attack they will not be of much use without a herald.

      Delete
    3. That and their BS may come into play with the skull cannon.

      Delete
    4. Also fiends appear to have been uber nerfed. Their special rule decreases the enemy initiative by 5 but they are already initiative 6! On top of that at only S4 and 3A I would never go up against something where that would come into play. They are just too fragile. Their ability to reduce psyker LD though....might be good. Personally it seems bloodcrushers are going to be the way to go, along with beasts of nurgle. Slaanesh however might dominate my troops if all this is correct. Which now I suspect it is based on the photo of the codex there.

      Delete
  32. What I personally really want to know is if daemon ICs can now join non-deamon units (maybe with CSMs with the appropriate mark to their daemon type). I'd really like to have herald "daemonic advisers" for my chaos space marines.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I want to do the same thing by tacking my herald of Nurgle with either oblits for the shrouded or sticking them with havocs for the slow and purposeful as well as the shrouded.

      Delete
  33. For those that didn't see it, flamers have been nerfed....

    Flamers
    same, but loose awesome flamer attack, replaced with
    s4 ap4 and causes warpflame wich basically causes the enemy to force a toughness check after wounds have been caused. if he fails he suffers d3 additional wounds without armor or cover allowed. if he makes the test he gains 6+ feel no pain or if the unit already got feel no pain it becomes better by 1.. they cost the same as of the update.

    Screamers
    same (and re-roll 1)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. S4 AP4..... trash
      What about the new Tz Chariot thing? The flamer is freaking huge... what weapons does it have?

      Delete
    2. Chariot of Tzeentch
      100 pts flat.
      10/10/10 all around 3 hp
      flamer on the inside got 3 lp otherwise same profile as the rest.
      my take the blue horror upgrade 10 pts (-1 ld for every enemy within 6".
      can take up to 20 pts in gifts
      open topped, fast, skimmer, chariot.

      At least Screamers keep the same stats (apparently), and they get to re-roll 1's now. Flamers won't be worth taking in a TAC list anymore IMO. Against non-meq, they will still be decent.

      Delete
    3. Tch, I'd be surprised if they completely cut Breath, considering that's kind of the flamer's thing...

      But in a another sense, I'll go "aw, well, dumps. I guess I'll use those points on more screamers, or soul grinders."

      Delete
    4. It seems that breath is still in, but it's profile has changed. It is now S4 AP4 with that Warpflame effect.

      I also noticed that Bloodcrushers are now T4... That's just stupid IMO.

      Delete
    5. I'm not gonna lie, some of these "rules" make absolutely no sense. A Lord of Change only has a 5++? Kairos a 4++? No bonus to +1 Invul for being Tz? HOW is a Lord of Change the same invul as a normal soldier.

      We're either completely missing some info, or these are incorrect, or Phil Kelly has lost his mind. Or all three.

      Delete
    6. There is a scan up of the LoC profile, it does not appear to have any modifier for the invulnerable save, but then again, I can't read German. I suspect that GDs get an automatic +1 to their invulnerable save, but it might just be that LoC are super fragile now.

      Delete
  34. What weapons do the Chariot have?
    It was said to be the most devastating anti-tank weapon in the book? Same with torrent flamer its supposed to have..

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  35. What doesn't make sense to me is that TZ based CSM Sorcerers/DPs have access to Breath of Chaos, but TZ based Chaos Daemons do not. Fluff wise that makes absolutely no sense.

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  36. @no_wegian Agreed, fluff wise it doesn't make sense, but the flamers were too good for GW not to take action. A skilled general running maxed flamers\screamers is virtually unbeatable by most armies out there.

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  37. Well, at least it's something to chew on. Lots of nerd rage, but amusing, nonetheless. As soon as I heard that Daemons were for sure getting a new dex, I prepared myself for having to re-tool my allies for my Death Guard. Will just have to wait and see. I've got a beautifully painted Epidemius that a friend did for me. Would be a shame to have to shelve him if these rumors are true, but as someone else said previously, having a challenging army to play will make you a better general in the end. Make lemonade, right?

    Looks like those Forge World Plague Frogs may be in my future, which wouldn't suck...

    Also, a Nurgle Soul Grinder that comes with Skyfire is better than a lot of other armies have gotten for anti-air support... I had a chance to buy the FW Nurgle Plague Hulk for $50 a few weeks ago, but passed on it, and now it's gone. Kicking myself about that one...

    Worst case, I don't run any Daemon allies & pump the points I was spending on Epidemius & two units of Plaguebearers back into other CSM options... Time to break out the calculator...

    It sure was fun while it lasted. Now on to trying out new stuff...

    Only 3 more days until I can download the digital dex, and lots of work to keep me occupied in the meantime...

    Don't worry, folks; if this is the direction that other codices will be going (and we don't know the full truth about this dex yet, including points), then I'll be a happy camper. I don't like auto-win armies, to play with or against, so more codexes (coming out very fast!) with more of what we've seen from CSMs & DAs, and if these rumors are close to being true, will mean more opportunities for fun games with balanced (but different) possibilities. That, IMHO, is a Good Thing...

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  38. Demons in 7th should just be "on a 4+ you win, otherwise your opponent wins all of your models

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  39. As a long time demon player, I am bored with demons in 6th. I have never come close to loosing a game with an optimized list. I usually faceroll anyone I face, including tournament champions. It is just no fun for either person. I am looking forward to the update, as it seems there will be several viable lists at this point.
    And Epidemius is still very playable, provided he can join units of Plague Marines. It is not like he costs much, and the benefits he would give a big unit of them is substantial.

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