68 Comments:

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    1. Except he's been really busy of late yet we've heard nothing from Ward & Cruddace. I'm really worried for the tau and eldar codexes.

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  2. I guess it's time to throw away my Daemon Princes then...
    I can't say I'm happy about Phil Kelly after his effort with Chaos Space Marines. CSM seems pretty bland and 3 quarters of the stuff is crap compared to the other choices. I just hope he knows how to handle bringing such a strange codex to its next iteration, especially when you (based on rumour) start mucking with our daemonic assault, EW and Fearless.

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    1. still a little early for that. We dont have the rules yet.

      I am expecting a codex on par with the last two 6th edition codices, Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines.

      One interesting thing though..... Phil Kelly doing both CSM and Daemons, means they should work well together as allies.

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    2. That could be one very good thing. Without mandatory deepstriking (as rumoured) and with the new CSM rules for ICs (needing the same mark to join a squad) I suppose it's likely we'll see daemon ICs getting to join CSM units and vise versa.

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    3. >>3 quarters of the stuff is crap compared to the other choices

      Oh brother. That's not even close to being remotely true.

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    4. Aside from OP Heldrakes and obviously superior Plague Marines amongst Cult units, most of the Chaos codex is perfectly fine. Not OP, but arguably a bit bland. However, definitely not UP either. Just evenly balanced. The only bad units in it are Warp Talons, Mutilators and maybe one or two others. Not great, but it is less than a lot of codices I can think of.

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    5. I want two things to stay the same (or get better, obviously) - Daemon Princes and their Eternal Warrior, and Epidemius and his Tally. Currently, I can run (if I had the models) 1 GUO, Epidemius, and 6 Nurgle Marked (or Daemon of Nurgle) Daemon Princes at 2000 points. Unstoppable rape train.

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    6. Should have clarified that the Tally doesn't do much for Daemon Princes, but they ensure that it hits 20 models as quickly as possible. And they're fun to run anyway, being FMC and all that.

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    7. So you want a combination that apparently is OP where you play to stay the same?

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    8. Not trying to criticise by the way, just wondering if that was what you meant lol.

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    9. I suppose so, but most people I've showed my list to have just laughed and said "Railguns".

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    10. Yawn- 3 quarters of the CSM codex is crap. Good lord- that statement just places a big sign over your head as 'drama'.

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    11. Well unless the Tau player has an insubordinate amount of railguns, they won't worry you too much. Army-wide Eternal Warrior and a mass of flying monstrous creatures makes it hard for the railguns to do much of anything. Also, invulnerable saves FTW!

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    12. yeah its save to say now that CD will be a BALANCED :D hahah Dexx :D
      so i agree... we will see a weak dex

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    13. Yes, because Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines are such weak codices they are very firmly on the level of most other codices barring the top tier. Yes, because that makes them weak.

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    14. Sorry, my fault entirely, Jack, I just didn't write what I meant very well.
      Double FOC, so 4 CSM Daemon Princes, then Daemon Allies, so 1 GUO, Epidemius, and 2 CD Daemon Princes in heavy support. It was an interesting idea I came up with when 6th came out, but then the CSM codex removed eternal warrior from the Princes, hence Railguns, because they can be one hit KO'd now.
      That's the reason I'd like the CD Daemon Princes to keep Eternal Warrior, so I can be sure that they won't instantly disappear off the board.
      Invulnerable saves are only 5+ though, even for Tzeentch Princes... but that's another rant.

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    15. Just a thought, "rape train" both seems to trivialize rape and make it seem like a good thing. Not trying to start this argument again but it seems like there's better ways to get that idea across.

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    16. I would substitute "pain train".

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    17. My mother was hit by a train, I think there are better ways to get that idea across without referencing being hit by a train.

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    18. CSM seems to have some clever internal balance. Khorne Berzerkers are the weakest cult troops (aside from Tsons but no-one likes them)but have the best close combat characters in Kharn and a Jugger-Lord so the army as a whole is good. A Nurgle army endures like nothing else especially if you use Zombies. Slaanesh has the best troops and the outflanking steed which is very useful. There is some synergy here.

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    19. It definitely looks like Daemon Princes aren't Heavy Support any more in the GW store.

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  4. W-well I didn't want to do Daemons in Fantasy anyway.

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    1. Trust me, they were worse before. The new army book would be a toned down version of the previous one!

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    2. It's interesting that Ward got it twice in a row.

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    3. Could be to try and make amends for the last one. He can't win though. If he does a good job and makes them balanced, he will still get abuse for nerfing them. :/

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  5. I *would* be happy that Kelly writes both CSM and Daemons if he did not made princes that expensive and killed all cross codex synergy.
    Seems like GW wants to get rid of such things, so now I expect nothing to change this suddenly with the 3rd 6th ed codex.

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    1. By killed cross-codex synergy do you mean the lords only unlocking cult troops as a primary? I feel like force org manipulation was intentionally restricted by someone higher than Kelly, otherwise why would it have hit both CSM and DA?

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    2. I think all you have to say to clarify this is teleport homers

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    3. Well the FAQ for CSM that dropped with 6th didn't allow deepstriking off icons by daemons, so I don't think that was ever an option outside of Apocalypse right?

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  6. Another advantage of developing/designing so many codex books in such a short span is that they will be moderately equal- so to speak. As years pass a power creep can take place- or vice versus. Or rules will change in major ways that makes earlier codex books suffer. I'd love to see this edition release a codex for each race during its run (maybe it will still be four years but at this rate they just might do it). And- a new race/army would ROCK! Genestealers Cults! Zoats! A new freaking chaos god! Or, gods of Law or something.

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    1. God of Law, you mean the emperor? He's already got a greater daemon (the sanguinor) and at least one daemon prince (draigo/mephiston) and who knows what's up with those living saints! ;)

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    2. Its visa versa, but I kind of like vice versus more ;)

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  7. Should be interesting. Kelly doing both 40k Chaos books may be a first for close synergy and Ward's Necon codex is pretty nifty so we'll see if the Daemons WFB book has that level of options but with a bit of 6E balance thrown in that we've seen so far.

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    1. "with a bit of 6E balance"

      Ahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa. Oh you slay me ^_^

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    2. No power creep. No OMFG MUST HAVE units that are mandatory at the expense of a load of other units. Units that synergise well with other units via debuffs, etc.

      Internally both the Chaos & Dark Angels books are well balanced. Externally they seem balanced, neither 6E book has immediately overpowered the other, or any other 5E book. They're certainly not Blood Angels or, beh, Grey Knight specials. So yeah, what few games I've played with my DA book and from what I've seen and read about the Chaos book makes them much more reasonable books than some of the more recent 5E books. That's a 100% 6E record for non-insane codices, hence "6E balance" :P

      :P :P

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  8. You know, the only thing about the whole thing that is of interest to me is Epidemus. As long as he still buffs my plague marines into the stratosphere, I don't particularly care about the rest.
    Then again, I'd prefer the daemons armybook not to break the entire edition of WHFB. Again.

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    1. I can't see that looking hopeful but saying that, I do think he will still be able to provide army wide buffs in some shape or form. Not on the same level though.

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    2. I wouldnt be surprised if it acted in some way to combat drugs, where you roll for either the army or each squad and they get an ability from either a d6 or 2d6 chart

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  9. As long as DP's don't become a HQ choice, I'm good. I love the CSM dex. One of the most fun dex's around IMO with a lot of choice on what to take. Practically everything in it is usable.

    One thing to note, look at what he did to the CSM DP statline. What does that mean for GD statlines? :o

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    1. CSM daemon prince could be an exception as it used to be a space marine, CD prince's could be fluffed as regular humans/xenos who earned daemonhood. With all these cultists around, one of them's bound to have done something worthy!

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  10. Didn't Ward almost ruin an entire edition of Fantasy last time he wrote the Fantasy Daemon rules?

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    1. Yup. The great balance massacre of 2008. I remember it well.

      In a last ditch effort to save Fantasy many areas initiated Project "Nerf Bat" and Daemon armies were just outright banned.

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  11. As a follower of the Church of Kelly, I'm excited, but also slightly worried. The CSM shook my confidence in PK a bit. Hopefully it was just a one off, and now he can get back to the business of making crazy flavorful armies!

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  12. I'm with J. CSM could have been a little better by Kelly standards. I'm sure Daemons will rock and then Phil can get to the business of greatest import...Eldar!!!!!!

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  13. Matt Ward- enough is already been said about this guy. Everything he has written has ha d completely OP builds in it.

    Phil Kelly writes excellent Fantasy books, but I feel his 40K stuff is too vanilla.

    Dark Eldar - A glass cannon army that has too much glass and only 2 types of spam cannon with dark lances and poison. Some horrible internal balance with HQ choices and Elites.A real fail on anti-psyker abilities from a race that supposedly purges all psykers from their midst according to the fluff he wrote.

    Chaos Space Marines - Again the word "bland" comes up all the time. Helldrakes are great (until more AA comes out across the board..wait until the long range shooty armies like Tau, IG and Eldar get redone see how many people will fielding flyers...). Again a lot of internal balance issues in where there is clearly a superior choice in each FOC slot.

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    1. I disagree about DE. They were a 5th edition codex in which raider/venom spam along with the speed with which the army moved made it incredibly powerful. The decline of light armoured vehcles in 6th saw the codex struggle a bit but if you keep in mind it's a 5th edition book and the amount of fire power you can bring it was a very good codex.

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    2. In 5th all I ever saw with DE was cram as many dark lances into a list as possible followed by as many poison shots as possible. That doesn't seem like a balanced book to me. Now in 6th we finally see DE players using Harlequins (usually with Eldrad), both flyers, and beasts. So an edition change brought more balance to the book than the original book.

      Which unit in CD is going to be our mandrakes/blood claws/shining spears insert _____ outclassed unit here? Not that we don't already have our furies and beasts of nurgle. Just saying Phil Kelly isn't perfect.

      All in all, I'm just hoping for cheaper troops,that winged DPs don't move slots, and that Fateweaver doesn't become unplayable from the inevitable nerf bat.

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    3. Whoa whoa whoa, settle down there captain. I agree, nobody is perfect, and that writing/balancing a book must be really difficult. But all those units are perfectly usable now, and you don't even have to leave the safety of a Kelly codex to do it. Mandrakes are bad? Attach Karandras to him, see if people are still laughing them off the table when you consider Look Out Sir!; Can't use Shining Spears? How about a wonderful 3+ cover save for moving thanks to the Baron to help you out? Blood Claws are no good? Throw them with some Wolf Claws/Power Fists on in a Land Raider or two (because those are hard to kill thanks to premeasuring) and watch people turn to ash. Welcome to 6th Edition son; if thinking outside the box works for the Green Berets, then it'll work for us.

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  14. The focus of this addition is balanced books as far as I can see. Phil Kelly Doing CD and CSM will HOPEFULLY be a good thing. I agreed with the above that the CSM book shook my faith in him a bit but it was full of so many usable options I was happy with it.
    I would be very happy in fact if Chaos Daemons was a balanced book (if fact i would prefer it over to OP) As long as its usable the fluff will keep me playing them. CD are a fun army first and thats all i hope for with this new book

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  15. Very excited that Kelly is writing this Codex, if he does as well as he did with CSMs or Dark Eldar I will be esstatic. I think people forget the crud that was the previous CSM codex. Kelly put the fun, flavour and ballance back in (hell drakes being the exception). May Kelly always roll 6's

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    1. Agreeing with Melon though personally I like the Helldrakes (even if they are frustrating to play against). I think the reason people are complaining about Phil Kelly is because we're all used to each subsequent codex being a table-flattening cheese-storm worse than the last. This wargame is supposed to have balanced books so the only real way to win is with good tactics and 6th seems to be returning to that.

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  16. So long and thanks for all the fish 8th Edition Fantasy.... :(

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    1. I dunno, Matt Ward's last codex (Necrons) was pretty well balanced compared to his previous work.

      Jury's out until I see the books...

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    2. necrons was balanced ???? what book did you read lol

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  17. More pictures from the White Dwarf here:

    http://fundaemons.blogspot.com/2013/02/more-pictures-of-chaos-daemons.html

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    1. Demonic instabilty on the drones... Arggg!!!

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    2. Also what the hell is going on with the leadership?!

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    3. Good catch! Drones make much more sense from the different angle and flamer chariot looks much better with a proper flame paint scheme and blue horrors!

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    4. I think it is too early to say how exactly leadership is going to play out with daemonic instability. In addition we don't know point costs and we have no idea what "very deadly" means. In addition, I doubt "daemons of Nurgle" only confers shrouded, I would venture it also confers FnP (also the Daemon rule). The fact that they have 3 wounds makes me happy. So my guess is around 40-50 points a pop, which may not be too bad.

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    5. Apparently demonic instability is at start of turn roll die, on roll of 1 place marker next to unit and place unit back into reserve and next turn roll for normal to come back on. When they come back on they have to be placed within 3 of the placed marker.

      I that is true, it sounds effing horrid!

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    6. And "Daemon of Nurgle" better not be just be shrouded with those LD stats. :/

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  18. Matt Ward! Hahahah! Awesome :)

    The fantasy book isnt that bad really, even if i took a new edition to make it less OP.

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