Now this is something that I did not come up with myself, like most people, we learned it from someone else.  After reading it, here on Faeit 212 in the comment section, I went and did some reading and thinking on the subject.


So take your Quad-Guns, add in an exarch from a Fire Dragon Squad and you get some amazing results. Here is why.

Fire Dragon Exarch
BS5
Crack Shot: The enemy may not take cover saves against shots from the exarch
Tank Hunters: You get to re-roll failed armour penetration rolls against vehicles.

What else do you need. Hit flyers on a 2+ with 4 S7 AP4 twin-linked shots? yes please. Can't take cover saves against it, with Tank Hunter re-rolls on the penetration roll. wow.

Of course any smart player had best be doing some serious shooting to take down that Quad-Gun if you are going to be facing this with flyers you want to keep alive. However, for eldar, right now its a great thing to be using.

A squad of 5 Dragons including Exarch with the add on abilities listed above is 120pts.

A big thanks to Black_Rose for the comment.

58 Comments:

  1. Yeah this is one of the more common things Eldar can do to counteract flyers.. Unfortunately, it's not too hard to kill the gun, so you really need more than one to seriously threaten air, but by then you're limiting yourself way too much if your opponent doesn't bring flyers at all.

    This is the problem with flyers and 6th, it's become a little too rock-paper-scissors.

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    1. That's better than "Grey Knights are rock...everything else is soggy corn flakes" like 5th.

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    2. I don't see it as a limitation at all if your opponent doesn't bring flyers. You can turn around and use that gun on ground targets as well. Light vehicles, skimmers etc. Go to town with it.

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    3. The icarus lascannon with a squad of 5 fire dragons as listed above wouldn't be expensive at all, also they would have to get extremely close as long range wouldn't be as viable with a 48 inch range cannon. Your entire army could counter attack easily. The only issue I have with that unit is guard players taking barrage weapons such as a manticore or a basilisk or multiples thereof. While this is the only real flyer defense eldar has and this would be mandintory for almost any eldar list. I think I would do this with dark eldar with an eldar ally as the Jetfighter doesnt work well against other flyers and the void raven is expensive and there is't a model.

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  2. And this is why I always take multiple flyers just in case stuff like this occurs. I played someone that tried this. Fortunately I had 3 flyers so after they got 1 I immediately destroyed the turret.

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    1. Yes JayDee, I'm sure that is precisely the reason you play Cronair. :P

      Joke! I can't talk I'm about to purchase 2 helldrakes and yep, your Quad gun better take em down fast because you know what is going to happen when those bale flamers reach it. :P

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    2. I really should not be so cocky about my love of ignore cover weapons considering I am a Nurgle fan...

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  3. Of course this leaves 4 guys with fusion guns tied to a quad gun in the backfield, kindova waste if you ask me as now your quad gun costs what, 150ish points?

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    1. Yup thats why I put Reapers there instead, the exarch doesn't have tank hunters but he still has crack shot(or fast shot w/Icarus) and the rest of the unit can still be used. Its a bit more versatile IMO.

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    2. That's why I run Fuegan with my Harlequins . He can man the quad gun until it is time to move out and intercept the incoming threat.

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    3. "4 guys with fusion guns tied to a quad gun"

      Also known as cheerleaders!

      Yeah this is a big waste of points, especially in an already over-costed Eldar army.

      And while this is pretty much the optimum configuration for a quad gun, it still only results in 2.19 damage results (VS AV12) - AKA a glance and a pen.

      The pen is fairly likely to prevent damage on the turn it comes on (4/6 of a chance of not shooting/snap shots), but it's only 1/6 of an actual destruction.

      The main problem with it is that the Quad Gun is that it's pretty easy to kill - hit with basically any anti-tank weaponary and it dies.

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    4. I'd disagree on them being a 'waste', as it really depends on your meta and how you deploy. Fire Dragons on a quad gun are my solution to flyers, backfield vehicles, and incoming transports. Against aggressive deep striking armies (terms, dreadnauts, etc), these same 'wasted' fire dragons offer a solution (just gotta keep them protected from the incoming volley)

      Also, don't be afraid to pull them off once they're no longer need on the gun and assist elsewhere.

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  4. The firedragons now act as counter units and can be fortuned for a lovely re-rollable +4 cover save. The quad is also a fine anti-light armor weapon, allowing the Exarch to reliably down a Rhino a turn (maybe even a Chimera with mediocre rolling.)

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    1. With Skyfire it needs 6s to hit ground vehicles no?
      "The quad is also a fine anti-light armor weapon, allowing the Exarch to reliably down a Rhino a turn (maybe even a Chimera with mediocre rolling.)"
      Will not be that easy I think.

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    2. Azatoth, Quad-gun also has the Interceptor rule, when combined with Skyfire there is no BS penalty for shooting non-flyers

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  5. It's good for sure, but still does nothing to Heldrakes as they have their invulsave anyway. It's not super-effective against Vendettas either, so I'd actually consider an Icarus Lascannon instead.

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    1. Yup, Icarus is the better option. It's been used against my with said squad, and is quite effective.

      Although I think you can only use one or the other of the exarch's abilities per turn, so choose wisely.

      Once the flyer threat is eliminated, this squad can move off and harass other high T/ Low armour save stuff, and can contest nearby objectives.

      Hey, you work with what you've got, right?... Lemonade!!!

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    2. Hi, you can use both exarch powers at the same time. It doesnt say anything about choosing between them in the codex.

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  6. I've been finding that my Wave Serpents with twin linked Scatter Laser turrets are doing fine against flyers. Front arc is doable, but the Serpents are agile enough to get rear armor shots commonly.

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  7. I disagree on the branding 'ultimate'. My vote goes to the the Orks, specifically Lootas! 5-15 in a squad, you can take up to three squads. Worried you can't take your nobs (mega/biker)? You should be taking a warboss anyway so they're troops.
    So, 15 in a unit. Each has a D3 autocannon. Low BS but minimum 15 shots to a maximum of 45 means Orks laugh at snap firing because orks basically snap fire all their life! While I know theory is nice, even a lowly squad of 8 lootas (120pts) has regularly shot down the mighty necron fliers in games for me.
    So take that eldar! xD

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    1. Oh and they can be mobile so cover saves!

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    2. lootas lay down in the forest nearly all battle they should model them sitting

      as for eldar: two drakes one takes hit and should withstand it, second put flamer and you can go to ground and have 2+ fortune re-roll cover if you wish. I guess warwalkers with missiles and re-roll to hit are way more usable

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    3. I would never field just 8 lootas. Shoot 2 down in a turn and they're already facing a 2D6 versus Ld7... As good as they are, you have to help them be consistent.

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    4. Of course I try to take more lootas than just 8 to a squad when possible for fearless more than anything, but when you begin an army with a limited budget and only 8 of said models... :P
      I was just using in game experience to validate what would otherwise be just theory

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    5. "as for eldar: two drakes one takes hit and should withstand it, second put flamer and you can go to ground and have 2+ fortune re-roll cover if you wish."
      Do you play with drakes? They use flamers, no cover at all.

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  8. Well, you could always go with the fortress of redemption w/ krakstorm missiles with two small squads of those dragons. That will add anti-air from the Icarus and great tank/infantry killing from a battlecannon that ignores all cover and rerolls to wound and penetrate.

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    1. You pay so many points for it, and even at BS5 it's not reliable enough just because you need 3's to glance and even if you do pen you still need 5's to kill.

      I ran the numbers a while back, and while the icarus is better at one shotting, it's got a much lower damage output in general (and is more susceptible to bad dice)

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  9. While you're at it, give your exarch a flamer for extra punch if your dragons are assaulted.

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  10. Err, if the Exarch fires with the Quad-gun, then the shot are coming from the Quad-gun, not from the Exarch. Thus, although the gun uses the Exarch's BS, it cannot use any of these special rules. Because the Quad-Gun is not a weapon of the Exarch, so the rules don't apply to it... so nice thinking, but that will never work.

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    1. Atleast under crack shot for the Dark reaper exarch it says" the exarch is a supreme master of all ranged weapons able to pin point targets with unerring accuracy." It says all ranged weapons.

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    2. Isn't that the same as saying when the exarch is shooting the fusion lance thing (whatever its called), the shots are coming from the weapon and not the exarch, thus his special exarch powers don't apply there either?

      Any weapon the Exarch is firing becomes a weapon of the Exarch...nice try though.

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    3. Don't the emplacement rules say they use the special rules of the firer?

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    4. it does, page 96... so he does get all of his special rules

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    5. I believe the wording in the rulebook states that the firer can fire the quad gun "instead of their own weapon", and all the rules are held by the model, so could be applied normally

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    6. Page 96 refers to emplaced weapons in Battlements / buildings. "Many buildings have built-in weapons." The quad-gun is NOT in a building, thus, it is NOT an emplaced weapon, so does not follow the rules on Page 96.

      The Quad Gun is a Gun Emplacement, following the rules found on Page 105. Thus, a QG can be attacked, charged, destroyed, has characteristics, whereas emplaced weapons don't. Rgarding firing the gun emplacement:
      "One model in base contact with the gun emplacement can fire it instead of his own weapon, following the normal rules for shooting." - this is ambiguous with regards to the special rules as RAW does not say that any special rules can be used, so my guess is that with QG, Exarch will not be able to use his special rules. But that requires FAQ I guess. Until then, I would say that no, you will not use the Exarch's powers with the QG.

      (Also note that a common failure is that QG can fire automatically at BS2. No, it cannot, az it is NOT an emplaced weapon.)

      I know logic fails vs. GW, even common sense does, but this time GW loses :)

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    7. But It also doesn't say that special rules are not used. there for the Normal rules for that model shooting it is its special rules and can be used. I have used it many times and know one has ever said I couldn't.

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    8. Everyone has more or less used Quad Guns using Exarch powers, both in tournaments and not. Unless GW decides to FAQ it the Exarchs use their abilities on the Quad Gun.

      That anyone is trying to weaken an already old codex through bad semantics is in my mind rather despicable and shows that there are players out there who will try everything to ruin other players' games.

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    9. I think we miss the common language here. I did not try to weaken the Eldar codex here... I just explained how grey this area is as the RAW does not explicitly say that one can use it or not. An no one in my country ever tried to pull this combo, so not everyone has used it thus far. I'm very far from ruining other player's game (you never played with me so please don't judge me), I just tried to explain why I think this combo will not work. Sorry for trying to be logical. If I'm despicable for this, and for having a different opinion, and raising questions, than I'm really sorry.

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  11. You can also put the reapers behind the aegis line witch allows your dragons to move closer to the enemy so the rest of the unit can be effective. The reaper exarch w/fast shot on a Icarus is pretty nice or you still have crack shot to use with the quad gun. But the big thing is the other reapers are also able to use their weapons to full effect with the 48" range. While I agree the fire dragon exarch is better against flyers with tank hunters I like the versatility of putting the reapers there.

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  12. Quick question, if you have Corteaz on an Icarus lascannon, does he get two shots when a flyers arrives on board? One for 'I've been expecting you' and one for 'Interceptor'?

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    1. No reason why not. And he's less expensive than those Aspects, and he unlocks the whooziwutsits as troops.

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    2. Plus he could (and should) have two divination powers!

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    3. He would, as long as the flyer's point of entry onto the board is within 12" of Coteaz, which is pretty unlikely.

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  13. I'm stil a huge fan of c the vindicarev on a icarus lascannon on a bastion. Better againt helldrakes.

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    1. Such a waste!
      FAQs say vindicare ignores look out sir. Tough luck hive tyrants! Farewell chaos distraction sergeants! And of course the old favourite, goodbye tactical marine missile launcher!

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  14. I am quite sure this has been covered before many times. It does NOT work. Weapon emplacement is not emplaced weapons. Special rules don't transfer.

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    1. Can you point us to where in an FAQ or BSB it says that? How is a gun emplacement not an emplaced gun? Common sense would suggest that once a gun is emplaced, it becomes a gun emplacement, no?

      The only argument I can think of is gun emplacement is a part of a building and an emplaced gun is battlefield debris but that doesn't mean they don't share the same rules of use, it would seem that they do...

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  15. For 20pts, I believe that a Space Wolf Lone Wolf is brilliant value as a gunner.

    * He isn't holding a squad back by sitting there
    * He will easily get cover from the gun itself
    * His Beast Slayer rule means Flying Monsterous Creatures are going to think twice before engaging him
    * Can stick a Storm Shield and 2 Fenrisian Wolves on him for really getting up someones nose
    * He is a capable counter charge back stop if people breach your lines
    * If your opponent kills him, they are denying themselves a victory point, so they may have to weight that one up if its a close game

    There are definitely more poswerful options, but I feel that none are as cost effective as a Lone Wolf.

    Also cheap to ally - grab a Wolf Guard Battle Leader (HQ), stick in with 5 Grey Hunters (Troops) and take a Lone Wolf (Elite) - 165pts for a fairly punchy back stop unit with Counter Attack and a damn good Quad Gunner.

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    1. Nice idea, you could load him up for assault with storm shield, wolf claw and wolves for a nice counter assault/challenger if the gun gets wrecked!

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    2. Your arguments are good, however when you consider that people can shoot the quad gun separately, this plan would fall apart.

      People would just shoot at the Quad gun, and gain themselves a victory point by leaving him alone.

      Nice idea however

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    3. True, but thats the same with all other units. At least this way only 1 single model is maybe out of position for real effectiveness, not a whole unit. Like with the Fire Dragons example - brilliantly powerful in use, but is that really the best way to use a Fire Dragons unit?
      Plus if the turret explodes, its could only take 1 guy, not a full squad.

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  16. One-trick pony. Expensive and too specialized. Also , dragons do not score.. so you have to keep too many people in deployment. I prefer Telion ; he scores, can kill some banner/special weapons bearing dudes; has camo; other scouts can shoot with sniper rifles.
    The best answer aganist fliers are:
    1) HUGE amount of high-ST shots (Lootas!)
    2) MEDIUM amount of twin linked high S shots ( long fangs with divination, psycannons, orders to heavy weapons team, )
    3) SMALL amount of fliers
    And off course force them to avoid shooting due to good manuevering on land , they have a limited arc of fire
    4) use transports to protect infanrty and block line of sight once wrecked

    Aganist Heldrakes it's not so easy: it can vector strike and flame, so pop the transport and the content in the same turn.

    But with other armies , considering how fliers have to manuever, you should not be punished much if you have solid troops and transports. Just shoot their troops to death, reach objectives and resist there!!

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    1. Telion is pretty much the king of quad gunning - being able to allocate ALL his wounds while firing the quad gun at BS6 is rude, allows you to just take all of the special weapons out of squads, for not many points at all!

      You need to define what high and medium strength shots are - S7 really doesn't start to worry AV12 fliers until you start getting 4-5 hits on target. Yeah sure there will be that one time that you managed to roll the magic 6 with the 1 shot that went through, but you can't rely on it. S8 is quaint, but you still need 2-3 hits to start worrying those AV12 fliers (IE, the ones you're actually afraid of).

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  17. Fire Dragon exarch at Quad Gun... a little bit than Farseer but still sound sick.
    Why should exarch put down his artefact-weapon to just AA gunner?
    Even if I don´t play competative, I need something to fight flyers sometimes and it´s sad that there are such few options (allies and quad gun).

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  18. While it's a nice configuration, it's not exactly new, and only costs 112 pts since the exarch does not have to bring a pike, especially not useful when firing the quad gun.
    Still the Nightwing interceptor is a better choice on all accounts. 2S8 and 6S6 at marine BS. 2+ cover etc.

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  19. On the real positive side, the dragons might actually get to kill 2 targets instead of 1 if the enemy can't manage to down the quad gun turn 1. Typically they will kill one target and die or be shot out of the sky before you get the chance to move anyway. If anything this nets them a tad more survivability, let's them be useful earlier, and helps defend from fliers.

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