There has been a lot of talk about the upcoming Tau codex release, and specifically Broadsides and their twinlinked railguns. Well, I have some new information, and collated info from the comments and rumors that we can at least get whats on the table with them.


Please remember that these are rumors.

This was from earlier today

via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)
Broadsides - 85 pts with S8 Ap1 Skyfire; not sure if this is in place of old S10 AP1 or if the 85 points + skyfire is an option but its there.


Here is a response from a very reliable rumor checker that sometimes comes in to help us take a closer look at rumors.
via an anonymous source

They're not 85 points base, that's including their Skyfire upgrade.

They are indeed STR 8 AP 1 however on the broadside suits, then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor.


this is from the comment section of the post from earlier today.

via shaso_icebornMarch 13, 2013 at 2:10 PM
or Rail Rifle S6 Ap3, Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor) and Rail Cannon S10 Ap1.

Can anybody guess where these now go? it's pretty obvious isn't it?


89 Comments:

  1. so... it's era of the rail-weapons.

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    1. Standard Broadside with a cheaper cost sounds good even with Str 8

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    2. I can't quite work out how losing two points of strength from one of our trademark units with no mention of a points decrease to match is sounding "good"?

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    3. Who loves nerf!?

      I still hope for a full strenght shot but if it is not I prey for a (very) good discount on point cost.

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    4. but guys, S8 skyfire! and AP 2 for the +1 to vehicle damage rolls. Unlike flakk missiles you're actually likely to damage vendettas, heldrakes and stormravens (i'd mention night scythes, but at av11, s7 flakk is not as prone to bouncing)

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    5. Sky fire is cool an' all, but being reduced to S8 means that hammerheads become our only long-range anti-tank fire.
      Where as a number of armies can get long range AT in a number of slots (Marines in Troops, Heavy, and Fast IIRC)...
      Not really ideal...

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    6. 85 points for a twin linked s8 skyfire shot on a tough platform is the opposite of nerfed. The sky isn't falling for the Tau - but things will be falling out of the sky for them.

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    7. 85 points for a twin linked s8 skyfire shot on a tough platform is the opposite of nerfed. The sky isn't falling for the Tau - but things will be falling out of the sky for them.

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    8. Changing the strength of a weapon like this, is like them changing krak missiles to strength 7, or ap 4. They wouldn't change so well-established a weapon profile in the marine codex, so I understand how Tau peeps would get upset by this.

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    9. 85 points to roll the dice on whether your opponent has flyers because unlike marines this doesn't appear to have a non-skyfire option for ground shots means this is either a partial rumor, or somebody trolling, possibly GW sadly.

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  2. On one hand, it makes me angry because I am used to it, but at the same time, it makes sense.

    Unless broadsides get jet packs, I'd expect them to stay in the heavy slot, which means they are still competing for space against the Hammerheads.

    And sniper Drones will spend another codex not being used.

    I'll wait until the codex drops before shouting that the sky is falling, but I'm getting increasingly despondent...

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    1. lol, a friend was asking me this morning why aren't sniper drones ever used, and thus I had to explain...

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    2. Come on, it looks like GW is balancing all there codex's this eddition
      S10 AP1 guns on broadsides was just ever so slightly over powered. And besides S8 AP1 is still good especially with sky-fire.

      And sniper drones were never terrible but they will probably get a needed boost/price drop.

      Just look at the dark angels, demons and chaos codex. Nothing in it was over powered and demons get massivley nerfed in some regards.

      Anyway besides every1 played with broadsides so now GW needs to sell some other models :p

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    3. Am I the only weirdo that likes Sniper Drones? I mean, yeah, they aren't a Hammerhead or Broadside, but I love them.

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    4. Actually I'd love to use x9 squads of Sniper Drones :D

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    5. Sniper Drones are awesome, its just we never have the room for them with the need for Railguns.

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    6. @jgascoine011:

      Being reduced to S8 means that hammerheads become our only long-range anti-tank fire.
      Where as a number of armies can get long range AT in a number of slots (Marines in Troops, Heavy, and Fast IIRC)...
      Not really ideal...
      so no, not really overpowered given how many you need to reliably take down AV13-14.

      Sniper drones have the huge problem that they can't move and shoot. Yes, yes, I know about snapshots, but they're not reliable.

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    7. Overpowered is having an AV14 all around tank with 2 twin-linked S 9 AP 2 guns and taking away the best thing the tau had to deal with it.

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    8. I love the SDT and the models, but they're just there taking up room for dedicate AT units with railguns. All our fusion/melta units are either well overpriced (hello Stealthsuits, that's you), too fragile (Piranhas, 'lo mates) or better used in a more flexible role elsewhere (OH HAI, Crisis suits!) to be taken seriously.

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    9. Yes Hammerheads are the only S10 AP 1 now, but there will be NEW units :D too.

      Assuming that Hammerheads are the only long rank anti tank option also presumes there won't be other units the same function, albeit a different strategy for use.

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    10. Without seeing the rest of the codex I hardly see how moaning about land raiders is justified. Land raiders also cost 250+ points.

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    11. @jgascoine011
      @NidsandWolves

      Spoken like true non-Tau players.

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    12. Hey, Nurgle took a big nerf beating in the new Daemons codex, in that the lost T5 & auto FnP, but you know what? I'm dealing with it. 2+ cover saves in ruins is freaking amazing, until they get assaulted of course, but then you've got strength of numbers and a 5++ still. B(I'm speaking about Plaguebearers as allies, of cours, so no Herald to give them FnP). Haven't yet had a chance to bang on the rear of armored vehicles with Touch of Rust, but it's going to happen, and then they'll really be paying for themselves...

      Point being, change is inevitable. Adapt or die. It's that simple. Sure, cry in your beer for a pint or two, then get list building & play testing, and start finding the stuff that works together & start rocking it!

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  3. With Skyfire and Interceptor, the Broadsides are very good indeed.

    I hope that the Rail gun (wasn't it Railgun by the way?) is not the main armament of the Hammerhead though.. Because no-one will ever take them if it is.

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    1. I'm sure they have the Rail Cannon

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    2. I imagine from those names, that the rail rifle will be the one pathfinders and sniper drones can take (which sounds great to me), rail gun is for broadsides, and rail cannon will be on the hammerhead.

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    3. Yeah, fingers crossed.
      Though i wonder what they have in store for the Rail rifles and especially the Sniper Drone teams..

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    4. @Hawkwall

      They get an option for Skyfire but not Interceptor if the rumours are true, so they will need to snapfire at any ground units if they take the upgrade, that doesn't sound good at all to me...

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  4. I am kind of hoping that railguns are treated like Beam Psychic Powers with the possiblity of further penetration..... I think it would be characterful

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  5. 85 points for STR 8 AP1 is not so expensive. With skyfire you get +2 on penetration table so esentially most fo the time 1 pen = 1 explosion.

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    1. Add ->
      this would render them best AA army in game up to now. Totall AA with this.

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    2. Yes and if they have interceptor available as well (As stated in the rumor), they are able to shoot at enemies arriving from reserves and fire at all enemies using their full BS.
      Very cost effective for that price.

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  6. Still confused on points. One person says it's 85 pts with the skyfire, and the other seems to sudgest that it comes with skyfire and you have to purcahse interceptor. 85 pts with skyfire AND interceptor isn't too bad. I'm still hoping the railcannon is either a beam or something because we went from having around 3-5 per list, to having to take 3 hammerheads to get 3 of them... ouch. I don't have a problem with the weapon stats, it's the volume of the firepower that we need. Sounds to me like the only things with the railcannons are the Hammerhead and the Riptide (think I saw it comes with 2 of them though).

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    1. Doh, didn't see this! But yes, this.

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    2. It's rumours, so people are either basing this on memory or have contradictory information due to not actually *knowing*.

      We'll know when the codex is out...

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    3. Maybe Tau get to have Hammerheads in squadrons. Probably not, but that would be pretty cool :D

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  7. Kinda contradictory there:

    "...then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor." - So skyfire is added making XV-88s use normal BS against flyers but snap-shots only against ground targets?

    "...Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor)..." - so now we do get interceptor at another additional cost on top of skyfire?

    Could we get some clarification, plx?

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    1. Clarification, with rumors? I doubt it.

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    2. Kind of doubt it will have Interceptor since its also twin linked (which basically makes it too good an anti-air option). I expect the skyfire to be much like the Soulgrinder in Chaos Daemons, the weapon will have two profiles so you are not forced to snap shot at ground targets.

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    3. You'll get all the clarification you could want then the codex is out :-p

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    4. Now that i think of it, has anyone mentioned that the 'new codex' broadside's S8 ap1 weapon is twin-linked?
      Is the suit even the XV-88 anymore, since its getting a new model?

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  8. I think they killed broadsides, because there are lists out there with 9 broadsides. So they killed them.

    Seriously. Can't pen a landraider. THAT"S THE ENTIRE POINT.

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    1. Fair enough that was there point. But if the rumors are true broadsides have a new point,AA. If the rumors are true and you want to pen a landraider use the hammerhead, and if you want the TL so bad you will have to follow the Games-Workshops marketing plan and take Eldar as allies for a farseer.

      I can't see this breaking the broadside at all just changing their focus some.

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    2. Indeed, and we have yet to see what kind of firepower that (elite) ubersuit (Riptide?) is packing.

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    3. The problem with that being that it's competing with crisis suits. Anti-tank was one of the few areas were we could perform consistently. Don't get me wrong, flyers and transports will still have reason to fear us, it just means that as ever, land raiders are now close to invincible and are ridiculously common in most meta. If the riptide suit was av14 all round and could carry 12 troops I'd keep my mouth shut, but forcing us to choose between stealth, crisis and the ubersuit is ridiculous. Although to be fair I run hazards but I feel sorry for those who don't have access to forge world.

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    4. Then again, a lot of this rides on the new markerlight rules and where we can access them as well.

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    5. Wasn't the Riptide armed with 2 Rail Cannons?
      And yes Hazards are very good at what they do.

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    6. Well we can ether keep all the S10 in heavy support, and remain the same stagnate options as before, or we can mix it up... I'll go for mix it up thank you.

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  9. If I had to choose between having the best anti-tank in the game, and having the best anti-flyer in the game, I would definately go anti-tank.

    If they'd made the Skyray usable against aircraft, like they should, then that would make the anti-air broadsides redundant
    (S8 BS5 seeker missiles vs S8 BS3 TL railguns)

    We may have been overbalanced in the anti-tank area, but over-balancing us with anti-air doesn't really help.

    Since the codeces coming out are generally more balanced I would think that we are definately missing some big pieces to this puzzle.

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    1. This is a fine post. I hope there is deffo more to this Broadside equation than we're currently seeing.

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    2. Bah, posted too soon! The problem that I'm seeing is that if the XV-88 doesn't have interceptor or two weapon profiles then you pay 85 points for what once was a dedicated AT unit that is now pretty useless once the air threat is eliminated.

      It makes little sense to me to nerf the Broadsides' railgun and give them access to an AA config when we already have what was originally a dedicated AA tank with the Sky Ray :S Just return that unit to it's initial IA3 Taros AA design and leave our Broadsides alone. lol

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  10. Wait I think I see what they're doing. Bear with me on this: They need to sell the new Riptide suits, which fill roughly the same role as Broadsides. Tau currently have ZERO anti-air without resorting to Forgeworld, but a 3-man broadside team has a 76% percent chance to land one hit on a flyer which already makes them our best bet at AA. So that leads me to believe most Tau players who don't use Barracudas are already using their Broadsides as AA which means less railguns to throw at the ground vehicles. Hence the re-purposing of the '88s as AA and the introduction of the Riptide as the new Broadside. And bear in mind, while our Broadsides are really good, they're one of the few Tau units that IS good in our current book. If broadsides take a hit to make the rest of the army strong again, it might be worth it.

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    1. You make a good point, but as I just said above, why change one of our most popular trademark units to make it less of an AT weapon all-round just to take an AA option when the Sky Ray is a bit naff in it's current guide and is just begging to be updated *back* to it's original role as the Tau's main AA unit.

      I'm guessing that with hull points GW think that we don't need so much AT, but still...

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    2. I just noticed the pleasing (to my mind) resonance of calling a dual purpose AT/AA platform an '88'.

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    3. I can see the broadsides filling in the lack of s8 in the codex. I suspect they will be getting 2 shots instead of a twin linked. If markerlights are increasing BS up to 5, that is 4-6 accurate s8 hits on a target.

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  11. Krisis ( including XV 88 )
    Can fire 2 Weapons on moving ( without extra cost )
    Optional Skyfire 25p ( choise at the start of the round )
    And Kollos with S8 AP1 will cost 60p

    If near a Special HQ, if not moving get +1 Shot.
    ( for a Str 10 Weapon it would be to much, for the S8 it´s strong but not overpowerd )

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    1. So, what you're saying is... two twin-linked S 8 AP 1 shots with skyfire potential, from each broadside? I suppose I could live with that. Especially if the base cost is only 60 pnts. I wonder if they'll change the squad sizes for any of our battlesuits.

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    2. Do you have this information on any authority or is this just based off of current rumors already posted?

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    3. @Jonathon Rose
      These informations have been posted except for the skyfire upgrade and the base broadside cost.

      Where did they come from? :o

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    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. THe informations are form rumors and informations form Playtest Nov 2012
      Playtest and rumors fit completly.

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  12. Wow Mauler not so positive now when rumors affect your army! Lol...

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    1. haha! Cheeky git ;]

      While I'm not keen on having S8 railguns I'm certainly waiting to see what the overall situ is before flipping out like a ninja! lol

      Overall, I'm really looking forward to this update, the three 6E books we've had so far I've really liked the look of. :]

      But yeah! S8 RAILGUNS RABBLE RABBLE haha

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  13. Kinda makes sense with the nerfs to dp toughness, and general limitations on the ammount of eternal warrior in the new dexes that they would limit railguns somewhat, honestly, s8 ap1 is still pretty good if you can take lots of them. Also, landraiders are supposed to be tough to kill, tau hosed landraiders, and gw probably want to sell more landraiders.

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  14. Well in their last tyranid codex, GW nerfed to the ground the carnifex, which was one of the most MC played (if not the most), and in my heart, it was the trademark and feared beast from the tyranid.
    So now, I don't have so much diffculties to admit the fact that GW is rumoured to nerf the broadside.

    Fact is, GW sold a lot of them, and they now need to sell something else.

    I love the 40k universe, but they don't have any kind of balance in mind, only profit.
    The riptide will be soooooo great and will cost 45€ (obviously) that we all will find our good old broadsides not that good anymore.

    I'd say : proxy Riptide with boradsides! :)

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    1. Not saying that this is completely false, but for every model that gets released with good rules, there is a model that is new but still pretty much crap.
      CSM had cool looking but useless Warp Talons and ugly looking AND useless Mutilators.
      DA got new flyers that are not good.
      CD has a useless new chariot (and some of the variants are pretty bad too).
      In return models got better that already are staples in those armies (Bikes,Havocs,Termis, general troop choices with daemons..)

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  15. So if broadsides get dropped to s8, who thinks this riptide suit will have str 10 and will do roughly the same job? Would make sense really.

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    1. Riptide will most likely be a broadside that costs more to save all the Landraiders that GW are making bank on.

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  16. Consider this, if the rumours are true (and the commenter further up is correct that the skyfire upgrade costs 25pts) then your standard broadside goes from this:

    1 x S10 AP1 twin-linked shot
    4 x S5 AP5 shots
    (can only fire one weapon per turn)
    70pts

    to

    1 x S8 AP1 twin-linked shot
    4 x S5 AP5 twin-linked ignores cover shots
    (can fire both weapons per turn)
    60pts

    So you're losing 2 strength off a railgun, in exchange for twin-linked, cover ignoring smart missile systems, a multi tracker and 10 extra points to spend. Overall I'd say that's a nerf at long range but a massive buff at close range (if you count 24" as close range). We also don't know if they get relentless or slow and purposeful built in, which would make them even better.

    Sure, lists that use masses of broadsides won't do as well, but the reason we had masses of broadsides in the first place is that it was either that or hammerheads to fill out our heavy support slots.

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    1. Yeah ... sure ... everyone takes broadsides for the S5 AP5 shots ... you know, those things that are pretty rare in the Tau Empire codex. Those big S10 AP1 guns ? pfffffsh! who ever used them ? Clearly you buy broadsides for anti troops duty ....

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    2. My point is, people are making it out like broadsides are going to be completely pointless, when in fact they still appear to be pretty solid units (and if these stats are correct, arguably the best anti air in the game).

      Ultimately people are crying because a new codex changes things, meaning they have to change themselves. We don't know 100% sure what the broadsides will be, what upgrades will be available or what units might fill the role they used to have.

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  17. I never got why the hammerhead railgun and the broadside railgun had the same profile even when the former was about five times the size of the latter. it'd make sense that the broadside one was weaker than the hammerhead

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  18. Since when did 40k become a game of "reason" and "logic". Anyone out there defending this NERF via bullshit like "it's reasonable" or "it's logical" please be honest.

    Broadsides and Crysis were the signature units of Tau. Just as Carnifexes were for the Tyranid. GW nerfed them because everyone got those and they want to sell new models. Now they are doing the same for the Tau. This has nothing to do with "reason".

    There is a single silver lining of this nerf. Space Moron players will finally shut up about how OP Tau railguns are. I have been listening their whines and cries for 10 years now.

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    1. I agree.

      Space Marines get everything, and any army with a counter gets screwed to the ground so the lickspittle posterboys can get buffed by proxy. Screwing Broadsides like this just means that Moron armies are going to be Land Raider heavy from now on.

      As for "but the Riptide" (which is a stupid name), and "Hammerheads!" comments, this is crap. Instead of giving a range of options for ranged anti-tank they're going to just change a few things and make sure we still only have two choices.

      Fusion Blasters are suicide weapons as everyone knows - if Crisis or Stealth are in range to use these weapons then they're well and truly within assault range.

      GW are going to crap on about "advancing technology" and all that but then not mention the fact that Broadsides have been turned down in effectiveness. Yeah, really progressive.

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    2. While I agree that battlesuits are the signature unit of Tau, I'm absolutely overjoyed that that they're bringing more flexibility back into the army. For too long battlesuits have remained their most(and only) really competitive unit. I welcome more diverse battles against Tau as your army has become incredibly stale to play against.

      Also, you seem upset by the prospect that the role of the broadside might change. While they may not fill their old role quite the same, I have a feeling if the above rumors are correct they will do their job quite well for the points cost. Maybe they're not less effective but you've lost the ability to adapt.

      Rather than whining about the changes to your currently stale and boring codex, try and think of interesting and effective ways you can incorporate these new changes into your army. Tau needs a breath of fresh air, not just a minor update to 6th edition.

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  19. I hope ripetide isn't just a commander. I want to feel like I am going out into battle with gundams and maybe possibly zoids if GW feels like romping around anime works.

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  20. I still have a strong feeling that either: a) This is a false rumor and Rail Guns will continue to be Rail Guns; or b) We are not being told everything, meaning that there might be more new rules and such that we don't know about. My skepticism is not from points or rules balance, but from a fluff stand point. The real world rail gun fires the slug at such a high velocity, they have to take into account the curviture of the earth. So why would the fake version in a universe of over-the-top action be less so?

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  22. Sick of people moaning about "hammerheads now our ONLY anti armour option, now that broadsides are S8.

    People, have you not heard the rest of the rumours? Tau are getting monstrous creatures. NOTHING is better at cracking open a land raider than a few MC's. Cheer up!

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  23. Sick of people moaning about "hammerheads now our ONLY anti armour option, now that broadsides are S8.

    People, have you not heard the rest of the rumours? Tau are getting monstrous creatures. NOTHING is better at cracking open a land raider than a few MC's. Cheer up!

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  24. What if it is a purposeful misunderstanding. What I mean is that someone said the Str. 8 railguns to focus on that instead of other stuff. Lets say this that broadsides remain the same, but for X Points, they gain skyfire but replace their strength 10 ammunition with strength 8. So in essence, they are a dual unit on paper, but can be purchased to focus on the desired course of action

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    1. That does sound like a very good possibility, I was thinking it might be something such as this too.

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