There was a lot of overreactions earlier today about broadsides and what they are to become next month with a new Tau codex release (assuming its next month). So one of the sources here put together much more detail, so that Tau players can get a sense of what of what to expect.


Personally, having a S8 twin-linked AP1 skyfire weapon is huge. Throw three of them into a unit, and you have a very reliable anti-flyer unit. X 3 or more in a 2000+ game, and you have a unit that looks like it will be able to control the sky from the ground.

Please remember that these are rumors, although very solid ones.

via an anonymous source
*Broadsides are Slow and Purposeful, 2+ and T4 now.
*They are twin linked str8 ap1 railguns and can take plasma or missiles as well.
*They have a suit upgrade that let's them at the start of a shooting phase have skyfire.
*They don't have interceptor, nor do they snap fire ground targets.
*The only thing I notice is that the unit chooses to skyfire or not. So if you use split fire, you can't mix firing at ground targets and flyers easily.
*They're really, really good.
*Semi mobile and very durable. They're the only non interceptor skyfire unit in the game that can survive flyer alpha strike.
*The tears and overreactions over out of context snippets is mind-blowing.

150 Comments:

  1. Thank you for clearing this up.

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  2. Any word on the points cost of the upgrade for skyfire? Or a release date?

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  3. Or put another way, they're going to nerfed against heavy armour but buffed against everything else. I'd say the addition of slow and purposeful for free is even bigger than either the loss of 2 strength or the skyfire upgrade.

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    1. Loss of 2 str on a heavy support unit = ruined army don't you get it? 0.o

      Not that the gain of skyfire is insanely massively good, as everyone should know by now that fliers are much more scary and harder to counter than heavy armour.
      This is assuming that they still get access to shield drones to keep them alove though.

      It isn't like tau have access to alot of anti heavy armour capable allies as well (and I am not jut talking about imperial guard if they end up lacking it in their own codex.

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    2. jesus, one unit = ruined army huh? It'll be the difference between the small broadside railguns and the large vehicle mounted ones.

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    4. Melta guns pop AV 14 dont they? What other unit in the game can shoot 3 twin linked melta shots 72 inches?
      Your Hammerheads are still Str 10 AP 1....and dont forget that the Riptide is a giant uber shooty suit that has rail cannons...more Str 10 ap 1.
      I am a Tau player...and yes...being able to move my broadsides 6 inches and still shoot at normal BS...holy crap! Whiners need to take your skirts off, we are going to be fine.

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    5. OK, ruined army is a tad over the top, but what you fail to see is *potentially* 9 twin linked rail cannons max compared to 3 single rail cannons now (without any new unit rumors being used.)
      So if we want skyfire we are down to 2 cannons.

      Sure the broadsides will be able to take out transports reliably, but that small change literally changes everything.

      I personally would have liked to see a new dedicated aa unit instead of this, but there is a lot we don't know about this new dex so its not time to throw in the towel just yet

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    6. @Wolflord. Problem is they aren't melta guns. They have the same Strength and AP but not the melta profile.

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    7. Archon, didn't they make something like that already? The flyray or something like that?

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    8. Wow once again people balance. There is nothing balanced about 9 S10 ap1 twin linked weapons. Thats super op in 6th edition. S8 still lets u take out land raiders glance it 4 times. And u can still have 3 S10 ap1 hammerheads. U act like u have nothing else to take out heavy armor. U do have a melta weapon if I remember correctly just not on the broadside. Welcome to being like everyone else ie balanced instead of just op every vehicle first turn.

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    9. Yes we do have melta currently on an expensive HQ, overpriced speeder, crisis suits and stealthsuits. We have to put all our melta within charge range to get the melta perk which we don't want our Crisis or Stealthsuits in. If I'm ruing Helios Crisis suits I'm hunting TEQ, MC, and IC, not vehicles.

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    10. Malachi, as a fellow player I bear you no ill will personally.

      Are you seriously saying that glancing a vehicle to death when it has four HP and you have a low volume of shots is a viable idea? Also, yes we have melta, that is as Enigma pointed out very expensive and rather scarce, especially in comparison to other armies' identical weapons. If you have regularly seen a tau player pop every vehicle on their first turn, you have either been playing in an area with few vehicles or you have met someone blessed by the gods of dice.

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    11. This still doesnt change the fact that 6th edition is about balance. Plaguebearers no t5 no fnp these were staples of being nurgle. I heard so many people cry about this before the codex came out. It hasnt changed my nurgle army because other things were brought in to BALANCE it. You all are seeing one unit changed and crying foul before you see what is added I gaurantee it will be balanced.

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    12. Tau's primary factor has been the strength of their guns since their BS and Ld are mediocre and their WS, I are abysmal. Plaguebearers did get nerfed, I will grant you that, though they still retain the distinction of being the most durable troop choice in their codex. Unless this rumor is bunk or other Tau anti-tank is also being reduced in strength, this is no longer the case. Plaguebearers can still effectively serve the same function in their army, I don't know if Broasides can say the same.

      It may be that they are being moved to a different niche. I wouldn't have a problem with that if there wasn't a unit being neglected designed for that niche already.

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    13. I don't doubt that it won't be balanced Tau will fit right in with other 6th edition armies. I've forced my local Meta away from using parking lots and make morr balanced lists. The IG players just harrass me and take bassies and manticores hiding them. My main beef is with GW "nerfing" a unit to drive sales of newer models. I agree with the change with disruption pods. I didn't agree that they should have given them shrouded in the first place. I already own at least 3 of every unit choice in the current codex minus Vespids. I don't want to buy a new model to do what my current models do. Give me incentives to buy a new model to field by doing what broadsides cannot like AA or pure Anti-hoarde.

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    14. I understand that I play csm and daemons and both of them had there share of nerfs and boosts. For example epidemus list useless now but it forces u as a player to learn new tactics. I love my new dexs despite nerfs because they are balanced u are still comparing everything to ur old codex. This will not be the only unit changed and im surr after reading ur WHOLE codex youll see that it will be balanced and have plenty of new toys to play with.

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    15. That's the number thing I'm waiting on is the code so I can read it. If the only the only drastic change is to broadsides is that and Uber and flyers reasonably priced, and etherals worth fielding than I will be happy. Also the uber and flyers better look good too lol

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    16. I'm with Enigma on the point of new units should be sold on their own merits. I also understand the crippling Epidemus got, I don't like it either. The difference I see is that Tau are a fundamentally unbalanced army. They completely forsake CC because they see it as barbaric. Because of this they will either have overwhelming shooting or they will not have enough for them to kill enough so they do not get tabled by one or two assault units that reach their lines.

      I hope that the codex will leave me satisfied, but I find it difficult for an army with the philosophy of the Tau to be balanced. From my experience they aren't over the median of power level by any means.

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    17. thats why kroot also got reworked. Once again balance. From what ive heard they blob better and are a more decent combat choice. Throw a blob or two in front of the stuff u dont want to get in to close combat. And voila balanve shooting and cc. Just wait till u see the whole dex before hating on it for one change thays all im saying

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    18. The wait for the codex is killing me. It would be nice to see Skyrays gain skyfire, sniper drones moved out of heavy support and the AA Railgun just be a new weapon all together. I woudl love to field 6x s10 railguns and 3x s8 AAguns

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    19. Honestly the sky fire I don't care about (twinlinked and numbers are what made them great against fliers in the first place, skyfire even better, but no worries)

      Its the loss of snap firing that makes me sad, a twinlinked railgun and a twinlinked plasma rifle with a multi-tracker. good at range, can kill heavy units at mid and close range, can move and still have a decent weight of fire power, can move and still get a good shot at fliers, but above all else it gets a fantastic overwatch. (9 twinlinked shots is great) and can stop a charge in its tracks. and if they can't overwatch they won't be able to help other units with overwatch (i can imagine)

      But then again i guess since there's going to be group over watch now, no worries. I'll still wait for the codex.

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    20. So you guys want the old Railguns combined with the nwe profile? So if they gave you a twin linked str10 apt weapon, that can skyfire while being twin linked, you would be happy because you would be back to balance right? Giving you the ability to down fliers just by hitting them is soooo balanced... You cant have it all, and if you cry and rage because they dont give you this "all" I am really happy I so far away from you guys so I dont have the chance to meet you at a game.

      Autowins aint funny... get over it

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    21. That is not what I said. I said I want the choice of AT S10 or AA S8 for my broadsides.

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    22. You don't always get what you want...
      (I wanted Epidemius to still have synergy with Plague Marines, but... Oh, we'll...)
      But I think you will find that you'll get what you need to be competitive against other 6th Edition armies, and still be unique and fluffy....
      That's what I've seen so far from the new CSMs, DAs & Daemons codices...

      Just my $0.02....

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  4. Actually, it sounds to me like the wailing and gnashing of teeth is justified.

    If this is really true, the shootiest army has just lost most of their ranged anti vehicle weapons.
    Because that makes total sense.

    Unless Hammerheads get a serious price reduction and can be taken in squadrons.

    It would have made far more sense to give XV-8s upgrade options to get skyfire.

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    1. I tend to agree. In a vacuum, if this unit was brand new, it'd be amazing. However, it's replacing one of the cornerstone units of the army with something that's doing an entirely different role, in the only force org slots where we get the army's most iconic weapon (and it's iconic for being s10ap1).

      People bring broadsides because hammerheads, even though they are 10ap1, just can't compare to a single force org slot that had triple the guns with a better chance to hit and the ability to hit multiple targets a turn.

      That being said, it also matters greatly what other new units/tweaks we see in the book as a whole. If the new Riptide can fill the roll that broadsides filled before, then there's nothing to worry about. But it'd have to be a hell of a kit on those things to match a full unit of broadsides in effectiveness for one force org slot. And for Tau, force org slots, especially heavy and elite, are not something we have wiggle room with in the current book.

      TL;DR we need the book as a whole before we can make an accurate judgement on if these changes really suck as much as they seem to.

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    2. Let's not forget the general push away from vehicles and towards flyers. Besides the Annihilation Barge, what vehicles do you regularly see that can't be dealt with using missile pods? Flyers. What does this give every army access to? Very good anti-flyer. I think this change makes broadsides the most desirable unit in the whole game and everyone will clamour for Tau allies. Time will tell.

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    3. Has anyone considered that GW is trying to make vehicles more survivable by reducing the number of ST 10 shooting attacks there are? Vehicles are fragile enough as it is, and I'm sorry, but a 250 pt Landraider SHOULD be able to survive a few shots from the majority of enemy units (especially units that are much cheaper than said Landraider). Units that easily negate the most heavily armoured (and expensive) vehicles in the game should be nerfed if you ask me.

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    4. So the only army with relable precise Anti-heavy weaponry has to get its weapon strength reduced because a 1/3 chance to penetrate AV 14 is too powerfule? A 3 man Broadside team is about as expensive as a Landraider. The same team is easly taken out by deepstriking melta or plasma behind them. A xenos army should not have to play lapdog to anyones "poster child"

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    5. Enigma, your last sentence sums up all of my hate for GW. Don't worry Carraway, next they'll systematically remove Lance rule from the game so the best way to fight the Imperium will be to play the Imperium. Isn't that what we all want anyway?

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    6. My broadside units usually run 300 points. This is to give them additional survivability. Base cost as it is, for 3 is 210. So I don't find it unreasonable that my Broadsides should be able to take out a 250 point land raider. That same land raider can easily take out my broadsides, instant kills even. I can see the logic behind the change. And I can agree that we can't do too much complaining until we see the codex at a whole, but I too am not happy about the change to this iconic weapon.

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    7. I have to agree with Enigma Crysis. The cost of Broadsides are the same as a landraider and are easily doubled out by the very same landraider with its S9 shots. GW's lovechild armies already control some of the best AV in the game. And now they are removing things that can easily kill them, while simultaneously letting marines/guard keep their own now stronger AT weapons.

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    8. Also the reasoning behind the Broadsides gun is smaller than the hammerheads so it should be weaker is flawed. A plasma gun is smaller than the cannon but the only difference is the range and rapid fire vs blast. Make the hammerhead small blast and broadside 48"

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    9. Or give Railguns on Broadsides templates as well, preferably S8 ones. THEN I would be fine with this change occurring.

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    10. You all dont think there will be one or two things in the new book to compensate? My word.... I play Tau and the new broadsides sound awesome. Ive ran many lists without broadsides and have axed vehicles with emp grenades, meltas and 2+ Cover save Hammerheads.

      Please don't do this, seriously. Act like adults and stop whining about part of the army being moved around when you all know its going to be balanced in another form or fashion.

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    11. I await the new codex to see what new goodies we get for Tau. I just find the argument asinine to say that because the weapon is smaller it should have a weaker weapons profile. If that is the precedence then any weapon that is smaller should have a weaker profile. I'm not against have S8 AA rail cannon. I'm also not against being able to possibly multimeltas elsewhere and not rely on hammerheads for sole AV14 destruction.

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    12. Possibly have *


      Sheesh I need to proofread more when I'm typing from my phone.

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    13. I agree, this sucks for Tau players. The broadsides are Tau's best defense from a land raider full of terminators that can wipe out you whole army. Yes, we need something with skyfire but I hope they don't mess up the broadsides.

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  5. I can't wait to read the fluff behind the story of have the Tau decide to nerf their own rail guns for the greater good.

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    1. The physically smaller barrels can't fire as large a shell. More a clarification, physics-wise, but definitely a nerf rules-wise.

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    2. I can't wait to read more angry, tearfull posts :p

      I think the lasgun should fire as a lascannon, as they are seemingly the same weapon just bigger!

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    3. @Heretic,

      Rail weapons don't use shells, they fire solid projectiles at supersonic speeds, the size doesn't really matter because the velocity that the projectile is fired at does the damage, not some shell that carries explosives like most weapons. Rail weapons are based more on the speed of the projectile, not the size of the payload.

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    4. Well in that case Chad, the capacitor banks that hold the charge to produce the electromagnetic pulse that is used to accelerate the projectile to hypersonic speeds is obviously not as powerful as on the hammer head, which can obviously store more capacitor banks on its chasis. So size does matter, as the boradsides cannot carry larger power sources.

      See you can make it more physical if you wish to explain it away.

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    5. Going on about physics of a Railgun they could just say the insane recoil from the broadside mounted ones where too much for the suits to handle over long periods so they reduced the power to decrease the amount of downtime and maintenance. (every action an equal and opposite reaction) plus as stated the smaller projectile size would mean there is less chance of the round hitting something critical on its way through.

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    6. Railguns have little to no recoil.

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    7. Tau empire is on a budget and realized if they saved on 2 strength, the ethereals could get a hefty bonus......

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    8. @Tossidin - That's not really the argument, I'm guessing you're a guard player, now imagine your Leman Russ Battle Tank went to str7 and could hit flyers. All of a sudden, an iconic unit of your army goes to have a different function.

      Now as guard you have access to other tanks that perform similar roles. We have hammerheads, and we don't really know what the riptide does. Our army doesn't have much contingency amongst it's roles (currently) so essentially, we could well end up with just hammerheads. Now one uber damage unit will just end up leading to spam lists and the fact of the matter is, most armies have access to a unit or two that's similar (Vindicator, Demolisher, Doomsday Ark) but they don't rely on them in the way that Tau do.

      Tau are a rapier where as guard are a sledgehammer, we have to exert massive force at the right point of an opponent. We don't have volume fire power or MEQ 3+ armour or lance weaponry. We have high strength with the potential for very accurate shooting. This rumoured change may help improve utility across the army, but as it stands, it takes away one of the Tau's major strengths.

      I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and be all chicken little as I'll need the full codex to make an informed decision, but this information does give those of us who've made invested heavily in Tau armies pause for thought.

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    9. ^^THIS

      I do not enjoy these current rumors but I will but the new codex when it comes out to decide how to go about the new codex. I have currently invested 14k pts of Tau for Apocalypse games.

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    10. Not sure where you get the idea that a railgun wouldn't have to deal with recoil.

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    11. They're essentially maglev aren't they, just really, really fast? The train doesn't touch the rail, so the kinetic energy would be difficult to transfer.

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    12. @ Heretic, Chad, and everyone discussing the physics,

      The energy of a railgun projectile is as you say only kinetic, but the formula is half of the mass times velocity squared.

      A thicker and longer rail would allow greater magnetic force for a longer period, increasing the velicity, and a bigger round would increase the mass. So the size of both the gun and the projectile determines the energy.

      IIRC, I read in some fluff somewhere that the railhead accelerates a 2kg slug to 4km/s, which would yield approximately as much energy as 7.5 kilos of TNT.

      And on recoil, Newton's third law. If we assume that a Broadside wheighs as much as an Arbams M1 tank, the suit would be pushed back at ~100 m/s, but I guess there's some handwavy sci-fi explaination for that (if a soldier fired this, assuming he could hold it, he would probably be demolished).

      Also, check this out:
      http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bulletin/navy-gets-another-hypersonic-railgun-fires-test-shots/3317

      Also related:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCoHT_cHPzY

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  6. Handfull of those deep in cover to sweep the sky clean, since that's the only place most armies can really do AA.

    Then send in the(hopefully) kick ass tau fliers.

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    1. That's how it worked out in my last game.

      A storm raven came on, flew straight at my 2 broadsides and killed 2 drones and half the squad.

      The Team Leader stays his ground.

      Barracuda turns to intercept.

      The Broadside fires, hits the storm raven and locks its velocity. The barracuda fires on the storm raven and explodes it, the wreckage falls to the ground, the dreadnought it was carrying explodes, the 7 death company and a Space Marine captain also die in the explosions....

      as well as 5 fire-warriors...

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  7. Couple of Str 10 ap 1 Deathrays should clean em up!

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  8. My thoughts exactly. I've never not taken a broadside and from what I've seen of the rules so far, I'm not going to stop taking them now: they're still a really good unit.

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    2. I think you missed his point completely. What he said is that broadsides are about to become as useful as an ejection seat on a helicopter.

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    3. Plasma, completely ignoring the fact that I agree with what you are trying to say, you do know that helicopters *have* ejector seats, right?
      And that they are actually quite useful...

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    4. I meant the fighter jet esque ones, where they shoot you vertically... into the blades :)

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    5. Okay, I'm not just pulling that statement out of my butt. I guarantee that, unless you're a GW playtester or designer, I've been playing Tau at least as long as you. Wanting a change up from my 'Nids, and Tau just rolling out, I started them the moment they were available.

      Okay: this would only be a "nerf" if they did absolutely nothing to the cost, abilities, or the rest of the army. What happened to the Carnifex? THAT was a nerf. Lowering a gun to S8, make it one of the best anti-air units in the game? Really? That's a nerf for you?

      I know I'll still be fielding three of these, at least. Something that instantly kills a MEQ no matter how many wounds they have, AND is twin-linked, AND has Skyfire capabilities, AND did I mention a 72" range? AND a 2+ save? Seriously? And that's "nerfed?"

      Riiiiiiight...

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    6. I personally think it's a nerf to the army as it stands, not necessarily to the broadsides themselves, by reducing our access to high strength weaponry.

      I'm assuming though (fingers crossed) that we will get it somewhere else, either the (rumoured) riptide or a flyer. My biggest beef with all of this though, is they could have simply given us a crisis variant for anti-air and left the broadside alone, but again, we'll have to wait for the codex as it could be more for balancing purposes.

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    7. Do we know that the new railgun is still 72"? The rail rifle isn't, so it would stand to reason that they cut range as well.

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    8. the Rail Rifle was never 72" it is 36" or did they nerf that too?

      The whole point of the railguns was the 72" of tank-rape.

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    9. the Rail Rifle was never 72" it is 36" or did they nerf that too?

      The whole point of the railguns was the 72" of tank-rape.

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    10. @Plasma, From what I've seen of helicopter ejection seats, most of them do shoot up. The blades detach before the ejection though.

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    11. @ Mike ... not to be on the down side ... but I heard some rumors on the warseer forum telling that rail guns will be distribute it by three categories: rail rifle:36" -- rail gun:56" and the rail cannon(new name for the hammerhead rail gun):72" ... it really sucks to the bottom but it may look like u_u

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    12. Considering that the average table is only 4' wide, unless you're playing on the living room floor, it's still not a nerf. I'm sorry, but it's not like they're tossing out the Hammerhead. I mean, up to this point, my gripe with the Tau codex was that I had so few options for fielding stuff.

      If it was a low-point game, I'd bring the broadsides; if it was higher-point, I'd bring a Hammerhead (and probably have two broadsides sitting back there in the deployment zone as backup). It was usually an either or thing since, with the exception of the submunition, they did the exact same thing.

      Now? The Broadside does something completely different from the Hammerhead. It has its own role in the army that's separate from "pure tank destroyer."

      Let me put it this way: the games were your opponent will be fielding an AV14 unit will likely be a game where you're bringing a Hammerhead anyways (or a Skyray, or the new Riptide, from the sounds of it, and depending on cost). So the Broadside is becoming the Tau's equivalent of the Hydra: a highly effective anti-air unit that also happens to be absolutely deadly against ground units (and it can still bork an AV14 unit: S8 doesn't make it as automatic as S10, granted, but it's not impossible - especially not with a unit of three).

      Now if they were reducing the strength of the weapon AND taking away the Hammerhead, okay - all this screeching would be warranted, but they're not. If they were making all the big Railguns (including Cannon and Gun, since apparently people thought I was including the lowly rifle, for some reason) S8, I'd also be howling, but they're not.

      It just gives Broadsides a slightly different role and I'm looking forward to it. Well, looking forward to that and making Croissant-spamming Necron players cry.

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  9. My concern was never with Broadsides and always with the Rail guns. If all Railguns are S8 now... I am going to cry. I love Hammerheads. So much. Because 10 is a big number. That is all.

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    1. In a previous post, it was rumored that Hammerheads come with a "Rail Cannon", which retains the S10 AP1.

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    2. There is a differentiation between a railgun and an rail cannon in these rules Billy, as Xyrus explains - I am with you bro, Have half a dozen Hammerheads, I'd like to see them on the field again!

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  10. Pardon! What do you mean by saying "So if you use split fire, you can't mix firing at ground targets and flyers easily"?

    So, if you don't use split fire and sport a target lock then, can you fire over ground targets?

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    1. It means that you must decide if you will use skyfire before shooting. If you use skyfire and split your fire, then you cant target fliers at full BS, but non-fliers and skimmers using snapshot and vice versa.

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    2. This might actually be a very telling comment. The Split Fire rule allows only one model to shoot at a separate target.

      If (and this is a BIG if) Target Locks only allow Split Fire (meaning a Ld test needs to be done before it can happen), these things have suddenly become useless given the Tau have the worst Ld in the game. This is conjecture only though, and not worth panicking about: instead it is something to keep in mind.

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    3. Sorry Chap, but according to
      http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2420320a_Tau_Empire_6th_Ed_V1.pdf
      Page to lower left: Target Locks no longer have an affect (for suits that is, infantry can still take them)
      And I'm not sure what split fire is

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    4. it was reinstated on version 1.2.
      Page 28 – Armoury, Target Lock.
      Replace this entry with “A model with a target lock can shoot at
      a different target to the rest of his unit.”

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  11. broadsides have always been T4

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  12. The one thing i note that everyone complaining about this seems to have forgotten, is that Skyfire has other abilities other than just being able to shoot fliers at full BS. Dont forget that when skyfire is used against skimmers and gliding monstrous creatures you still fire at full BS, and they do not get a jink save. That's a kick in the teeth against eldar, and especially dark eldar with their tin foil boats. Strength 8, twin linked AP 1 (and split fire assuming they still get it), and dark eldar best think about walking to the battle and/or walking home. There is a 1 in 3 chance each shot against a raider is a kill shot (assuming BS3).

    If you kept it at S10 AP1 without skyfire, you will kill shot a moving raider 1 in 3 shots. So no improvement there. Now lets say it is kept the same but given skyfire and you killshot a moving raider 1 in 2 shots. All this at 72 inch range. So what your saying is if you kept them at strength ten, but gave them skyfire, then a broadside just has to look at a raider and flip a coin to decide if it lives or dies. It is no wonder that GW brought the strength down, considering that you could have 9 of these weapons in a sub 2000pt army. The broad sides would take out the skimmers, and the long range weaponry would then pick of troops as they tried to close on foot.

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    1. uhm skyfire does not ignore jink saves ...

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    2. Sorry, my mistake, I was confusing it with IG Hydra. thanks for correcting me

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  13. At this point the only thing that will make broadsides what they were is something like 2d6 armor pen or re-roll armor pen. So lame.

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    2. I like that!

      On the other hand, the codex is not even out and everyone is whining about how bad it is. At least wait until it is available and read it, people! After that, everyone can whine.

      Damn, we are getting ONE CODEX EVERY MONTH, yet everyone complains how weak / bad / nerfed they are. Before this, people whined about not getting updates. Seriourly, nothing is good enough? Reading such whining post makes me not wanting to read any rumours again :(

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    3. Dobi, welcome to the community of 40k. Whining is par for the course and I'm honestly glad to have something new to whine about. I started tau when 5th dropped and it's been a long road of mediocrity when I was told they were gods.

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    4. This. So much this.
      I'm a Tau player. I've played tau my whole 40k life, it's my one and only army. Yes, i field broadsides every time. Yes, when i saw that "S8 ap1" i was too like "whaaaat!?". But now that more info has come our way, it all click's and makes sense. Yes, they're nerfing the anti-heavy armour capability of the broadside. So? We're still missing like what, 99% of the rest of the dex. You cant just go and cry like that without knowing wth is going on with the rest of the codex. Or, you can, but shouldn't, makes you look like a little kiddy, no offence. They might still get some nice toy, like 2d6 armor pen, lance, something. Or... idk... MAYBE we're getting some other weapons/units that can deal with the heavy armor with out having to melta-suicide?. Don't have any info on that but i'm pretty sure about it. Also, jonny's right bout the skyfire, it's not only flyers that will suffer, but also skimmers. Other taus, eldar, Dark eldar will still have a lot to fear from them railguns. In the end, just dont make such a fuss over a 1% of the dex before knowing the rest. By what im reading, broadsides have just become a LOT more flexible than "awesome against heavy armor, meh against everything else", now they sound a lot like "Meh against heavy armor, pretty good against anything else" wich, in my book, is more kind of a buff, a flexibility buff. Yes the new toys are probably going to be a tad expensive, that's GW for all of us. If one cant save that extra money, one shoultn't have gotten into such an expensive hobby in the first place. This is the time of the patient hunter. We wait, and we see what comes up.

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    5. thank the gods, people with sense.

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    6. Agreed! I am gonna wait to pass judgement to see the specks on the rip-tide! Yeah, its sad to see our good friends, the broadisdes, get slightly weaker. But hey, new models, new rules, and new TAU!
      BTW, i am more sad at rumoured loss of multi-tracker on vehicles and the weakening of the disruption pod. Those were a little more important to me, just saying...

      Delete
    7. Honestly if it stayed S10 AP1 and Skyfire the cost would have shot up. Essentially it would have been as godmode as Abbadon in CC. You can't have a godlike unit that can easily kill both flying vehicles/creatures AND ground armor. Tau will have things to compensate for the Broadside "nerf", which all your arguments discrediting the nerf are honestly weak for what you get in return, the Riptide. If it fills an elite slot which it is rumored AND has your S10 AP1 weaponry, you will be absolutely fine.

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    8. Honestly if it stayed S10 AP1 and Skyfire the cost would have shot up. Essentially it would have been as godmode as Abbadon in CC. You can't have a godlike unit that can easily kill both flying vehicles/creatures AND ground armor. Tau will have things to compensate for the Broadside "nerf", which all your arguments discrediting the nerf are honestly weak for what you get in return, the Riptide. If it fills an elite slot which it is rumored AND has your S10 AP1 weaponry, you will be absolutely fine.

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    9. You make a point crusader, but a new crisis suit could have acted as an AA alternative rather than tampering with the broadsides. Ultimately though, it's still a solid light to medium anti-tank now combined with anti-flyer. I'm not whining so much as slightly miffed.

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    10. Still think that making the Skyray and AA would have made more sense. That is what it was originally made for after all. What is, is, though. We can either live with it, or... well, you'll probably live either way :P

      Delete
  15. Somewhat odd... this is a nerf to anyone who takes Tau as an ally for just the Broadside unit. That unit is no longer the major anti-tank that it used to be, but Tau still has the single shot Rail Cannon somewhere...?

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  16. I get you're cut about losing 2 strength on an iconic weapon, but in every game I've played I've seen every vehicle totalled by broadsides, to the point where unless it is AV14 it's not worth the points to take it. Reducing the number of S10 long range weapons means that there are more valid builds against Tau then footslog through superior ranged fire and hope something lasts long enough to get there. Yes it's a nerf, every army gets them, Tau are not the exception that proves the rule.

    Random thought: Instead of saying how this will ruin your Tau army, start thinking of ways to change your tactics and start over with them? I've had to do that 3 times in a row with High Elves, it's annoying when something you base your army around becomes either ineffective or straight up illegal to play as you did before (silver helms v.v) but it gives you a chance to explore newer, less cheesy aspects of your army. Silver lining kids.

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    Replies
    1. Because apparently when a NEW book is released people still try to use their OLD tactics like before.

      Go figure.

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    2. Agreed, Ryan. I don't like people taking Tau as allies just for the Broadside, honestly. If this "nerf" makes them think twice about it, I'm fine with it.

      And then, I don't use Broadsides. I don't like them. They are static and useless once you've destroyed enemy armor. I prefer 2 Hammerheads, fast, almost impossible to kill and able to adapt to the battlefield conditions quickly (large blast, mobile SMS, etc.). If the new Broadsides are an effective AA platform, I may think about using them now.

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    3. I prefer the hammerheads too. However, if the rumors of nerfed Dpod and Multitracker are true then i will have to rethink running hammerheads on anti-tank duty

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    4. THOSE are the nerfs I am worried about, indeed.

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    5. These aren't the nerfs you're looking for.

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    6. How about seeing it as a CHANGE, rather then a NERF? New edition, new codex, new rules, new tactics, new possibilities to try. JayDee is right: OLD tactics might not work on new books.

      When the German first came out with their tanks, did the polish cavalry whine that cavalry has been nerfed? No. But the situation has changed and they needed new equipment and tactics. But this brings us very far from the original topic. Two words: change and adaption.

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    7. I am open to change, but I belong to the school of thought that defends that Tau are not the shootiest army in 40K, but the most mobile. Removing Hammerheads' ability to move fast and shoot accurately would represent a shift in that focus. It would be akin as removing the 3+ save from SM, turning IG into an elite and small force without tanks, etc. No degree of improvements on other parts of the codex would compensate that, since I am a background gamer, not a cheese hunter. I like Tau for their tactical depth and its similarities with modern warfare doctrine. If you turn them into another fantasy army ungrounded with reality, I'm out. I can't care less about how powerful they become overall if I can't apply real world strategy to the board game, as they have allowed me to do for 10 years.

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  17. It IS Mind-blowing that people are complaining about this, and it seems to mostly be about losing 2 Strength on Rail Guns. Did Tau players seriously expect to keep Str 10 Rail Guns AND get (a then redundant) Str 10 Rail Cannon?

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    1. Actually people are complaining because unlike most every other army we don't have the option to pepper our regular troops full of special and heavy weapons. We don't get to load up on missile launchers and meltaguns, our Railguns were our only real AT weapons. Imagine Marines not being able to take special or heavy weapons in their squads and had only one tank and a squad of suits that can reliably kill armour.... their players would be freaking out about it just like Tau are now. Give Tau the option to take special and heavy weapons in almost every squad like almost every other army and I guarentee you'll see A LOT less complaining.

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    2. So then let's wait for new rumours... Who says we aren't getting more special and heavy weapons elsewhere? There's a new suit of which we know nothing about, besides of the riptide. And then there's a lot more things. Imagine for once that the carbine granade launcher actually works like one and could fire EMP granades if the squad have them. We suddenly have pseudo fire dragons (notice the pseudo).
      or... idk, maybe all Rail weapons get a special rule wich allows them to re-roll armor pen or wounding and keep the best result.

      There's still too much we DON'T know to be making such a fuss.

      Yes, i'm not too fond of loosing 2 of strenght on the railguns, but i know we're also missing so much info that's... ridiculous to cry like that. At the very least, say "nooo my railguns T_T" and cry manly tears instead of going "OMFG IMMA SELLING MAH TAU IF THAT HAPPENS". Not wanting to attack anyone in particular but it just reads so childish its... unnerving (Not that one doesn't have the right to cry like one prefers to anyways)

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    3. Well everyone will just have to wait and see how it all irons out really. I just can't fathom how going from Str 10 to Str 8 is such a deal breaker for people. Str 8 AP1 is still amazing at cracking armor and if you really miss the Str 10 take stuff with Rail Cannons.

      As mentioned somewhere earlier in the comments, it's very likely Hammerheads will have Rail Cannons to retain their Str 10.

      Delete
  18. >S8 railgun by default
    >they are very good
    Does not compute.

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  19. So, my main complaint is at the people complaining. This is all a vacuum, and you have not idea what else is in the book. What it we can now take elite units with Rail Cannons S10 version. (That is the rumor) Who cares if it competes with crisis suits are whatever else they throw in elite, we can also take suits in HQ slots, and most people don't do that in 6th due to bodyguard rule. (Which should go away for sure, it's a 4th ed relic rule) I'm perfectly fine with broadside getting a str reduction, since it makes since, and we'll have S10 shots available else where.

    I look forward to this change, I want to see vendettas drop like rocks, and stormraven cringe.

    BTW, he says their survivable due to the ability to purchase shield drones

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    Replies
    1. "I look forward to this change, I want to see vendettas drop like rocks, and stormraven cringe."

      THIS.
      SO. MUCH. THIS.

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    2. Hear hear!

      With you all the way Dennis, change is a definite characteristic of the new. I think in the end the playstyle will be seriously upgraded - and more fun!

      Delete
  20. How do we know normal squads wont get special weapons or new drones?just because ot hasnt been mentioned doesnt mean it wont happen

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  21. I honestly find all the crying over the resduction in stregnth funny. Tau currently live and die by the cheapness and effectiveness of the broadside. The only reason to have Tau as an ally is to get them. The only reason to take an ally for tau is to protect them (and the other suits).

    Take any army in the entire game and ask the question "Would this army be better with broadsides in it?". Ignoring extreme circumstances, the answer would be a resounding yes. Currently the only other units in the game that are like this are blob squads, helldrakes, and vendettas. Why are these considered overpowered where as Broadsides are not? It's very simple: These armies provide other things than just these units. For IG it's FOC efficincy and nice HS options and for CSM it's durable troops. Tau, almost literally, having nothing else that is efficient or even very good.

    Lets assume for a second, that broadsides were not nerfed.

    Fire Warriors become useful.
    Kroot become decent troops.
    Etherals aren't useless.
    Crisis suits get a point reduction.
    Pathfinders are more point efficient.
    Ubersuit is an elite with some heavy weapons.

    How good are Broadsides then? If you ask me, absolutely broken. Just be glad that they didn't lower it's cost to 40 points, a 3+ save and a S6 gun like they did to deamons

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  22. Another thing that hasn't been brought up (but worth mentioning) is the 3-man crisis team could easily become a 5 or 6 man unit, thus allowing players to field more suits with fewer slots.

    Also much like necrons and Marine books, the Crisis Commander in the HQ slot could easily unlock a "Command Squad" of crisis suits, which take up no slots whatsoever. These command suits could have shas'vre status and with appropriate points costs, special rules or wargear that makes them better than our current counterparts.

    Just wait people, i know it's hard to see a change like s10 ap1 dropping to s8 ap1, but without knowing all the POSSIBLE special rules attached to the gun (Lance, Armorbane, Beam, who knows, etc) we won't get the big picture until release day.

    I for one look forward to our new Tau overlords.

    ReplyDelete
  23. The only thing I'm gonna say is this is 6th ed now and the key word is balanced change your tactics and enjoy the game once all the dex's are out over the next 18 months or so everyone will be in the same boat with multiple builds so the game can be both FUN and COMPETITIVE chill out peeps and become a beter tactician
    peace out
    EL REEVO

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great point. I love the new 6th edition codices for that very reason - players can field Multiple Viable army lists with one book, which right now is impossible with armies like Tau Empire and Tyranids. Sure, you can take a list with "different" units in it but they won't nearly be on the same level as the one good list those books have.

      Delete
  24. I see people taking 2 broadsides for AA and light-medium tank cracking...also will be good against high profile infantry.
    Then filling the other HS slots with hammerheads for heavy tank hunting. Iirc the riptide is going to be elite from what rumours said(have a feeling that will be twinlinked railcannon). All in all I think that these are actually quite positive rumours that will see spamless armies, which I love!
    Plus, what if one of the flyers comes along with a railcannon...omg the fun that could be. Lets wait and see before we continue with hissy fits hey? :)

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    Replies
    1. I'd put money against a rail flyer. The only way to get those atm, (yes, it was written in 4th and will change, so don't start) is to get a superheavy. The only fliers that are especially good at downing other fliers in one shot are the imperials. Shocker, I know.

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    2. Actually it might result in an army without multiple duplicated units, but you'll end up facing the same army regardless of who stands behind the other side of the table.

      For instance, there will always be at least one Riptide, always be a unit of Broadsides (for the AA) and always be at least one Hammerhead. If you're lucky someone will substitute a Hammerhead for a Riptide, or vise versa. This will be done because S10 Railguns are currently there for a reason.

      Delete
    3. If the Riptide has a good model I'll certainly buy one or three.

      Delete
  25. I actually just said the same thing about the rip-tide and flyers in a post above. To be fair my knee-jerk was OMG WTF but to be honest, I think we'll still come out with some solid units that allow us to play Tau how they were meant to be played. I'm just hoping for a Necrons style redo that gives us some fun tools and decent units. Personally I want to see drone squads moved to troops (as non-scoring). Given the trend of horde troop options with the chaos dexes, I don't think thats unreasonable or unusual.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Also, Natfka, would it be possible to code name your anonymous sources? I understand they want to avoid either themselves or their friends/family losing their jobs but this way we can help distinguish whether they are truly reliable sources or some random wish lister.

      Delete
    2. linking sources to several pieces of information could make it much easier to identify them.

      Delete
    3. Yeah, can we stop having this conversation? People bring this up every so often and it got old fast. it's more tiring than people whining about one rumor from one unit in a whole codex.

      Delete
    4. Sorry didn't realise this was a frequent request, and chill Rham, I wasn't trying to be a pain, I was asking a legitimate question - head to BoLs if you want to spam needless hate. I don't read every comment on each post so I've never seen it requested before, I apologise if I'm not a hardcore forum observer such as yourself.

      Delete
    5. Sorry, wasn't trying to be aggressive. I understand if you hadn't seen that before, andI do refresh these pages an unhealthy number of times. Desk job, what can ya do?

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    6. Yeh and I was kind of hypocritical in my reaction :s

      So... Broadsides?

      Delete
  26. I think the important thing to remember is that these are rumors. If true, I'm a little sad my access to reliable S10 spam is being cut off, but at the same time, they're just making them do what I already use them for better (I just spam broadside shots at incoming fliers..twin linked, if one hits that spells goodbye for whatever the hell I just shot.)

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  27. I admit I panicked at first when I saw the strength 8 rail gun drop, but the more I think about it, the more I am okay with it. I use hammerheads more often (would like them to be cheaper though both price and points wise) and using my broadsides as anti air actually makes sense. they aren't as fast, but very tough, and most of the time flyers don't get cover saves, so the 72 inch range is more useful(I rarely play games where units are more then 6 feet away for more then a turn). what concerns me is the make up of the elite slot. why would anyone ever field stealth suits, if they could take crisis suits and ubersuits instead? unless they get some major buff or the like, or a points drop to make them more friendly in small games, I can't currently see a use for them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm hoping, and I personally think it's a reasonable hope, to see stealth suits in fast attack. It was a bad idea in the first place to have them compete with crisis suits, I think.

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  28. As a Tau player, them being my first and main army I play with, I can see why they would drop Rail Guns to S8 but with access to skyfire, seeing as majority of flyers are only AV10/11 it would mean that a Broadside doesn't just have to pretty much just hit to destroy a flyer. So in that respect, giving flyer a little better chance against the weapons strength, I completely agree with. On the other hand though, unless they give Rail Guns Armourbane or Lance, then it will reduce they're effectiveness against AV14/13 tanks, and I sure for one don't want to have to rely on half range melta weapons to get better than a glance on a land raider. All being said that yes, we will have to wait until the new codex drops, and yes I will sure be fielding broadsides in future games, hopefully along some new reliable tank busting suits, special weapons and flyer/s.

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  29. Crisis Suit picture :(

    I would love a unit that could blast down those pesky flyers.

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  30. I think the comments cause me more anxiety than the rumors in the post... Also, in 6th, I've had no issues with fliers with twinlinked missile pods. 6 crisis suits with missile pods, some twinlinked, some not, seems to knock out most flyers before they can do much. I'd be lying if I wasn't scared of how S8 broadsides would affect my list...even with skyfire.

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  31. Just going to weigh in with my two cents here. Have to admit, getting pretty tired of this moaning and whining over the loss of two strength. Number one, this is a vacuum, we are seeing things in isolation, and we dont know how much we are missing.

    Additionally, we must remember that the allies matrix is now centralised in the game. Gw want us to expand our armies. So, as a tau, if i want tank killers, why not necrons. 40 necron warriors with guass weapons would kill a land raider no problem. Av 14 still a bother? Scarab swarms. No jetbikes? Sorted.

    If we want close combat? Orks. Couple of boyz mobs and no more worries.

    You want a land raider then take an actual landraider.

    And if you whine about wanting a pure Tau army, then convert. My necrons are earth caste drones with experimental weaponry. My space marines are heavily armoured fire warriors with specialized kit (infernus class). My landraider hovers on anti grav plates. Too heavy to be a skimmer but still looking like a tau vehicle.

    All in all, 6th is a chance to adapt, to expand, and to grow. If your old tactics dont work, then start thinking up new ones.

    Rant over

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    Replies
    1. The point is, mate, that the Tau's defining feature is impressive, decent ranged, correct-tool-for-the-job firepower. We shouldn't have to take an ally to get AT firepower when it's what attracts people to the race in the first place. It's about as Tau as the Deathwing are to the DA so your second point is kind of moot.

      Your first point is totally valid though, we do need to chill somewhat and see what we do get rather than hollering about what we don't. I suspect that most people complaining are just having knee-jerk reactions to an iconic unit allegedly being made less effective in it's only real role, and once they've chilled out a bit and/or had some clarification on these snippits of info the more reasonable ones will settle down.

      It doesn't really help that we already HAD a dedicated AA unit in the Sky Ray which went from AA in IA3 to limited fire support in the 4E codex due to a lack of flyers. Now that flyers are an integral part of 6E we hear nothing about a unit invented to destroy flyers actually being used as intended and instead have capability moved from our only long-range AT infantry unit instead. It doesn't make a lot of sense but then we're not seeing the full picture here and I hope that we'll get some clarity on this oddness in the coming weeks.

      But then I think that if GW themselves were a lot more forthcoming with their reasoning a lot more of their customers would be more understanding, but communication has not been GW's strong point of late which is compounded by "internet users" and "understanding" being pretty far apart themselves. Ha.

      Delete
    2. Well GW cant really come out and explain this seeing as its a rumor. And any statement towards it would prove or remove this rumor.

      Delete
    3. Aye, that's a good point, but I meant more in general. GW make changes with new codices and, aside from them commenting on the new 6E rulebook to say that they wanted to make the game more involving and cinematic, there's not really any explanations knocking about as to why they updated the three 6E books or FAQs/errata as they have.

      Their game development is great these days, their customer services is stellar but their PR and channels are well iffy :/

      Delete
  32. All right, I can get behind S8 Railguns. It's a loss of something iconic, true, but I can understand it from a design perspective. Never really used broadsides, anyway, the minis are fairly terrible and the hammerhead was always just more suited to my playstyle.
    What confuses me, however, is the "very durable" line T4 with a 2+ is not all that durable, even with 2 wounds. Either we aren't told everything, or somebody is overstating their resilience. I always found their immense range to be their best defense, truth be told.

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    Replies
    1. Yeah, I'm not sure why the statline is being touted in the changes when it's not a change.

      Delete
  33. To paraphrase a Medieval English phrase used when one monarch died and a new (usually different) one replaces them;

    The Tau empire codex is dead, long live te tau empire codex.

    The basic point which a few others have tried to express but seem to be utterly ignored is that based on the evidence at hand (codex csm, codex dark angels and codex daemons) whatever the new tau codex is going to be, it is going to be very different to the current one.

    With such an obvious fact in mind, there is no purpose other than fuelling an impotent nerdrage, served from comparing RUMOURED rules/stats etc from the new codex for individual units with their current incarnations.

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    1. It's not really an obvious fact duder, the DA codex wasn't massively different from the last one, neither was the C:SM one apart from new options and some changes to greater daemons. Which is basically what I'm hoping for (and expecting) here; the same units doing basically the same stuff with a few more options via new units + wargear and the obselete units like Stealthsuits, SDTs & Vespid getting overhauled back into usefulness. I don't expect the new book to be very different, I expect it to have some internal balance with the normal Tau leaning away from CC factored in.

      I know I'm being quite vocal on this page but I'm fairly bored at work, Warseer is as boring as hell, Dakka is blocked and so is ATT. No nerrr.

      PS - I should hope a different monarch replaces a dead one, the royal court would be in a bit of a bother if we had a hungry zombie monarch ;]

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    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  34. Wow...a lot of stuff here.

    As a Tau player who actually STILL plays tau, and played Tau ALL THROUGH 5th (that is, I did not put them on the shelf because they "sucked") and did every well with them, I have to admit I have a bit of apprehension with the new dex.

    I understand the concerns about broadsides - they are a very iconic and core unit to the army. ANY changes to them, are going to cause concerns.

    But lets remember one thing - why are they so core? Because we only have two units that have range and are reliable anti-armor.

    So, we have two options today - broadside and hammerhead. Part of the issue with tau is that they have quality over quantity (S10AP1 few shows over tons of missiles and las cannons in a comparable imperial list). This is in the back of the mind for every tau player, consciously or not...every single miss, or cover save (which is why we have markers - the designers are a bit more clever than we give them credit for at times) is disastrous for tau...because we don't have weight of fire.

    So, whats my point?
    Yes, if in today's codex, the broadside got reduced to S8, that would be devastating. We just can't get enough of them (at cost) or enough Hammerheads to make up for it.

    However, we will get an entirely new codex WITH the broadside changes, so we have to realize that no single change can be taken in isolation.

    As a ACTIVE tau player (i.e. not "waiting" for a new dex) I have more apprehension than most - but we will have to wait and see what the new dex brings before claiming the end of the world...

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  35. I am mostly excited to see what changes are brought to seeker missiles and Skyrays, as I have three that I barely ever use except in apoc games when I run the stealth suit formation with a boatload of Markerlights to make vehicles sad.

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  36. I honestly dont see the point of gw releasing all of these flyers if alongside them the new codices are filled with ways to take them down easier than normal tanks. If these rumours are true, no one will play flyers because they will get killed instantly, making gw lose money on some of their more popular kits

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well the problem is that Flyers are today a million times more powerful than tanks.

      But there aren't all that much anti air out there though. But the trend is to give most new codices at least one AA unit.

      Heck right now Tau don't have ANYTHING that is AA. Same goes for Space Wolves. No Skyfire, Flyers or FMCs. So QQing about getting some AA is silly :P

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    2. We already have a unit our codex that in the fluff and IA3 is an AA unit the Skyray and would be able to do it in 6th if GW would have FAQd it with the 1.0 ones

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  37. So how many rail type weapons are Tau going to be able to bring to the fight? Broadsides an hammerhead for HS, pathfinders in FA, Riptide in elites and we don't know if the flyers or anything else have them either.

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