A couple weeks ago, we had a rumor set from Tastytaste that first broke the news..... Premeasuring is in for 6th edition. This evening we have more confirmations that this is indeed in the rulebook.


Just yesterday or so, premeasuring came up again over at Beasts of War, and I have heard this is definitely in the rulebook from a source of my own. If this is the case, what does that do for the game?

My two cents is that it will stop some fudging of the distance on the table top. You can often see someone moving what looks to be more than their allowed distance when trying to get that extra 1" or so for the melta shot or to get into assault range. With premeasuring now, it would be allowable to literally measure to see if the distance is even possible before the unit moves. I think this will make for a more honest game.

On the negative side, I will miss the excitement and tension of waiting til the unit shoots to see if it is going to be in range of taking its shot. For instance, the vindicator taking its demolisher cannon shot, and ending up being just short on range.

I think I will appreciate premeasuring. I think the argument that it will slow the game down is a little ridicules. Players will not be premeasuring and double checking every single movement on the board. I do not think the tape measure will come out any more than it already is, there will just be less questionable measuring.


49 Comments:

  1. Premeasuring is a funny thing. I think it's something most casual players are ok with but at at a tournament level it's usualy a NO NO. I can usually do an estimation to see if I'm in range but idont see this completely shaking our rule ground here.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Also Natfka I think you meant to put" rediculous" instead of "Ridicules"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. thanks, spell check didnt catch it. Going to have to fire the editor. :)

      Delete
    2. Oops. I meant "ridiculous" not with an Re. Guess were even...

      Delete
    3. It is definitely spelled ridiculous. A part of me dies when I see these common spelling errors.

      Delete
    4. Looks like JayDee came a cropper of Skitt's Law (AKA Muphry's Law) "if you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written" :P

      Delete
    5. I'm hoping that "Muphry" is intentional... you know, for irony :D

      Delete
    6. LOL, yes "Muphry" is intentional, as a play on Murphy's Law

      Delete
    7. Best Spelling Bee ever!

      Delete
  3. I am opposed to this rule change. I like to play a chaotic unforgiving game. If I want a unit to charge another and I am not in range, I fear for my unit now. It can get shot up and then cleansed in close combat next turn.

    I don't think a bunch of rabid berzerkers will care about (being in range) for their assault. They will charge full on into the fire. There were talks about 6 being a more cinematic edition, with pre-measuring, it takes away from that.

    My FLGS will not be using pre-measuring if it is in 6... we will keep the randomness.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But pre-measuring will be tempered by random charge ranges - The Jocks at The Battle of Halidon Hill measured the range to the English line, but rolled poorly and then got bogged down in Difficult Terrain.

      Delete
    2. Difficult terrain that wouldn't have slowed them down if they just moved normaly? I guess when charging forward you could trip on a sod of grass or something.
      I hate premeasuring. It feels like I'm cheating. And i think it takes away from the tactics and feel of teh game.
      But you're right. With random charge ranges it doesn't make a difference really. Except when shooting comes into play. Most of the exciting parts of the game I find are when I move my transport up and jump my guys out and hope that I'm in range for that melta shot or not.
      I think premeasuring is fine for fantasy but not for 40k. There's too much shooting and it takes away from the game.

      Delete
  4. After being Introduced to pre measuring when I started playing the new version of LOTR, I can see how this will help speed things up, I don't understand how knowing what you can shoot/assault in advance can possibly slow the sequence of play down!

    On a side note... Where did u get that artwork from, it's awesome?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would guess a Black Library book, although I don't know which one.
      I'm fine with premeasuring. It will make for a more honest game, as Natfka said. And remember that this rule is not compulsory. If you want chaotic berzerkers, then you don't bother with this rule. It's as simple as that.

      Delete
    2. The artwork is from the cover of upcoming novel "Betrayer" by Arron Dembski Bowden http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/betrayer-cover-for-real-this-time/

      Delete
    3. Ug. I don't know how you people can like that guys art. It's garbage. He needs to go back and learn he basics. Because badly applying fuzzy colours over top of 3D models, flattening out your images with big black shadows and no atmospheric perspective are really simple no no's.
      Not to mention those badly applyed colours are super saturated in an image that's mostly dull and lacking saturation.
      And what's with that sky? It's horrendous!
      Though I must say his composition is a bit better in this one. Except he's ruined the focal point with that big fluffy lightning bolt.
      And oh wow! I didn't even realize that was two guys there. I thought it was one main charcter swinging that HUGE mace. but there's a guy behind him with the axes who sems to be twice his size. More problems with atmospheric perspective. Things further away are supposed to be smaller. Not bigger.

      Ug.

      Delete
  5. As Slite said, I too am opposed to this rule change. Though it would be nice if you could have a rule in the 6th edition rulebook which says that you may buy 1 to n premeasures per round. (let's say... advanced targeting arrays from orbit helping you or informing you with targeting and monitoring enemy during battle)

    ReplyDelete
  6. I have seen some quite serious over moving with units, particularly with huge deathstars, where whether they get into combat or not will probably decide the game.

    I would like it if I could finish my movement, and then measure to the landraider full or terminators and say my unit is 25" away, so it's impossible for your terminators in a landraider (with 21" threat range) to change me. I've seen terminators in landraiders do plently of 25"-ish charges :)

    95% of games this is never neccessary, but every now and then there is a person who likes to think their unit should make combat even if it means giving them a boost in the movement department.

    Rathstar

    ReplyDelete
  7. GW's reasoning for premeasuring is to even the playing field between new and vet players. After all, is a unit of Space Marines who have been using bolters for 100+ years in some cases really misjudge the range of thier rapid fire as often as a player in his second game of 40k? In the UK, a lot of kids nowadays have probably never worked in inches in thier lives before they played 40k! Should this lack of knowledge be passed on to thier army which is, in some cases, veterans of a 100 battles, and in the very worst case, at least possessing a hard level of drilling/trainging/instinctive knowledge of their wargear?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. exactly what I wanted to say

      Delete
    2. Why you say so? For the metric system today in use in UK?

      Delete
    3. Exactly. The UK is a bit of a mis-mash of imperial and metric measurements, however unless you work in a trade, you're unlikely to work with imperial measurements for the majority of your life!

      Delete
    4. In the RAF we use inches, feet, yards, miles, ounces, pounds, pints, gallons, millimetres, centimetres, metres, kilometres, litres tons and tonnes etc...

      Sometimes one measurement system is more appropriate than the other.

      Delete
    5. further proof of the madness involved in UK measurements, even the Armed Forces can't pick a system and stick to it! :)

      Delete
    6. On the other hand knowing both (and being able to convert between them) is really handy if you deal with Americans and Europeans. Unless they burn you at the stake.

      Delete
  8. This is one change I'm really happy about, the whole judging the distance thing was always rubbish and all it meant was new players to the game who were not used to doing it had a disadvantage, after a while it was pretty easy to tell how far away a unit was to within a couple of inches.

    ReplyDelete
  9. If it comes with "random" assault move, I do not see any problem.
    And as previously stated, it's quite strange than in the 40K universe, units do not have special systems to evaluate range, especially in Vehicle.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Totally agree,

      premeasuring combined with a random/rolled charge distance would be a very clear system. Plus it'll put an end to the tape measure wandering an extra inch or two during the actual move.

      Delete
    2. If pre-measuring is in, I expect random charges to be in as well.

      If random charges are in and make potentially longer charges, I expect some form of charge reaction/defensive fire to be in as well.

      Delete
    3. I had the same thought, precise pre-measure, random charge distance, one negates the other.

      I know alot of the mathhammer people are up in arms about random anything. So I expect to see alot of very math oriented gun lines precisely pre-measuring to get over run by the guy who embraces the idea of a game, and rolls those random charge dice well.

      Delete
  10. this won´t do anything good

    people will now premesure everything
    and people will messure wrong

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's why GW puts little red sticks with inches marked on them in the starter box. Or heaven forbid, use a ruler?

      Delete
    2. and measuring is easier than guessing, if people measure wrong on purpose they're cheating and you can't stop that, only catch and punish it.

      Delete
  11. I've done a U-turn on pre-measuring over the last 6 months, thanks to WHFB 8th Ed. In the past, I've always been against it- now, I'm all for it!

    The reason? Well, it's mainly because pre-measuring takes away unfair advantage. Experience of the games means that long-term players have a distinct advantage over less practiced gamers, simply because they are more familiar with the distances involved (in honesty, how many people work with Imperial measurements in day-to-day life now?)

    Pre-measuring means that everyone has the same information on the battlefield- there's enough information to keep track of in a game (your units, opponents units, scenery, relevant rules) without throwing in range-guessing as well.

    So hopefully, this will be in the 6th Ed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I mean its not like the advanced player and tournament player suffers, we will not see any player playing 3 games win the grand tournaments of the world because he/she has it easier now if pre-measuring.

      (my english may be a bit bad, I agree with you if its unclear :P Im all for it)

      Delete
    2. Yeah, I wasn't fond of the idea of pre-measuring either. Then midway thru a game of CBT last night (being played on a map sheet where we always count moves/ranges out ahead of time) I realized just how stupid that stance was.

      Delete
  12. Premeasuring ensures that that little goblin who you've launched into the sky so carefully lands and smacks something dead.

    In the 40k perspective: You'll know when those marines are in range, and when you're in range. And who wants a power-armoured five across the face? Certainly not Tau. Or Eldar.

    ReplyDelete
  13. How long has pre-measuring actually been out of the game? It's only been in since the 5th Ed.

    If there's going to be random charge distances like 8th Ed WHFB, and the reappearance of the MOVE stat, then pre-measuring is a must.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I liked the non-premeasuring as it was a gamble whether your models were in shooting range or not. It made you consider should you risk firing at the distant heavy weapons team and them being just out of range, or target the much closer troop squad which is definitely in range? If the heavy weapons squad are not in range you waste teh entire units shooting. Now you can just measure and see which is in range.

    There are pros and cons to both though. On one hand guessing the range could save entire units, but on the other hand pre-measuring will make sure this will not happen.

    The one question I have is with premeasuring, will target priority tests return as in 4th edition? I.e. you have to shoot the nearest target (and hence nearest threat) unless you pass a leadership test to target a more distant one.

    ReplyDelete
  15. We've been using pre-measuring for a long while now.

    Experienced players, players who know the distances of things on the board, players who are good at math, and crafty pre-measuring players could eye-ball it and use tricks anyway and be damn accurate.

    So those players had the advantage and the others not so much. And then it wasn't a huge advantage anyway, it only mattered once in a while. So we left it as a matter of personal choice, and encouraged new players to do it so they could get a better feel for how it's done and looks on a table.

    Depending on the board you play on, the situation could get worse. Take a gw board, 24x24 squares, a little pythagorean theorum and there's not much you can't figure out. I've seen boards made up of 12inch modules, it's like playing on a grid.

    Then of course there is using the movement phase to basically premeasure for you. There are both legal and not so legal ways of doing it. Novice players wouldn't catch on to what's going on. I've seen people extend their tape measure 12 inches for a 6 inch move, just to figure out assault range, then decide to go for it or back off. and the list goes on.

    All pre-measuring does, is level the playing field for everyone. And people who did the tricks no longer look like wizards.

    If you are looking for that element of tension if you will make it or not: add randomness. which I think is one of the rumors isn't it?

    something akin to that of a unit with fleet (move 6, run d6, assault 6). The unit you want to assault is 14 inches away. you know you can definetly make 13, pretty good chance at 14, up to you if you want to risk it.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I welcome pre-measuring. Most of the time, not pre-measuring only makes people fudge the movement phase in order to "make sure" they are in charge range or melta-range.

    If you can measure how far your unit is from their Landraider full of whatevers before they start moving and pivoting and going back and repositioning and moving some more, then you'll know they have no chance beforehand and could actually speed the game up.

    How many times has your gunline been charged on turn 3 when you clearly started 11" from your board edge by guys on foot(6" + 6" + 6" + 6" charge=24", not 25"). Used to happen all the time before everyone meched up and actually played units on foot.

    Being against pre-measuring just means you embrace the idea of cheating. Imo, the most beardy players love the movement phase, a quarter inch here and there throughout the game could mean the difference in victory a lot of times. Could charge one turn earlier, giving longer to wipe a squad of objective, or get that 2D6 melta shot one turn sooner.

    I want pre-measuring to be in, it will speed up the game and take a lot of arguing and hard feelings from the game.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I play both WFB and 40K, and premeasuring makes a lot of sense and speeds up the game. I think all relevant posts were made above, but I'm embracing this change as well.

    ReplyDelete
  18. FFS - pre measuring has been in 40K since Rogue Trader, apart from the 5th Ed, which is pants.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I'm for pre-measuring, and most of my points have been covered above (thanks guys), but what I think should be pointed out is simply this: you know when you start the game and you are 100% sure that no-man's-land is 24" and therefor your rapid-fire weapons can not fire turn one, so you don't even bother measuring? Pre-measuring makes this kind of streamlined gameplay every turn. Now I can say "So, my guys are 13" away" and my opponent doesn't need to measure, he knows, that simple. This will speed up games drastically. It worked great for WFB8, and 40k players should embrace the success of that system.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I've fired a rifle with this little dohickey on there. It shoots a laser down range, bounces off a target, and then gives you the range on a little LCD readout like a calculator. I wonder if soldiers will use something like 40k years for now.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't know...40,000 years and they still use internal combustion engines...

      Delete
  21. Wait, people don't already do this? My friends and I definitely already do this.

    Heck, I've been looking at getting a big 1" hex mat for playing on, just to make distances easier.

    ReplyDelete
  22. To anyone who's complaining about their army not being random enough - I hope you realise this is not a compulsory rule? There is nothing stopping you from jumping your units out of a transport, and hoping you are in range, without touching a tape measure once.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I'm all for pre-measuring. A space marine who has trained and drilled with his bolter for hundreds of years should know how far the stupid thing can shoot... furthermore, we should support anything that speeds this game up; it's a ridiculously slow yet still somehow crude rule system. Having played Flames of War and 40k for years, it's like night and day between the two.

    ReplyDelete

 
Top
Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...