Are you like a lot of people, wondering what the new meta game will look like. New top tier armies in 6th edition are coming, and this is definitely one of them to watch out for. Time for some pure speculation based off of rumors.

Here is my take. If rumors hold out to be true, there will be a new top tier army.... wait for it, Dark Eldar. We all know where Dark Eldar fail. That is breaking tanks. Infantry? Well, they have so many poisoned splinter rifles that it is not much of an issue. However throw down breaking tanks, and dark eldar are in a wonder of hurt.

This has taken the almost too fragile army in 5th edition, and made it not a good choice. Armour is just too durable, (not dark eldar ones). It is the bane of the army, and in response, you are forced to take tons of blaster/ Dk Lance type weapons to attempt to compensate for the weakness.

However in 6th edition we have a little new rule coming called "hull points". It says essentially that any result other than a wreck or destroyed, damages the vehicle and takes away a single hull point. Add to this that the rumors say a rhino gets 3 hull points and a land raider will get 4.

Many of you already know where I am going with this, those that do not, hold on, because it wont feel good.

Haywire. Simply said, if things are the way they are going, Haywire will be the dominate force in the Dark Eldar army. It will destroy mechanized forces just as quickly as will a wave of necron scarabs. In case you do not know what a haywire grenade is, here is what it does.......

Assuming you hit the vehicle roll a die.
1. nothing happens
2-5. glancing hit
6. penetrating hit

Now I am going to assume there are going to be additional modifiers etc in the new rule book. Even with the possibility that if negative modifiers drop you below 1 you get no result. However, Haywire will almost definitely give you many results, thereby wrecking anything a unit with haywire grenades reaches with their grenades.

OK, who gets haywire grenades in the Dark Eldar Army... A lot.
Lets see.
Archons
Bloodbrides (every model)
Wyches (every model)
Trueborn (every model)

Now we come to the interesting part. Scourges also come with Haywire Blasters. This is a 24" S4 AP4 assault 1 weapon resolves its S4 hit first, and then applies a haywire effect to it. This gives scourges a 36" range to fire up to 4 of these blasters per unit. With WS 4 and the new rules, Scourges will be for a lack of a better term... the new scourge of tanks everywhere.


So, if we assume the hull point rules are really coming.... which I hate to tell you are very certain, will Dark Eldar become one of the new top tier armies of 6th edition?



39 Comments:

  1. Replies
    1. My thoughts exactly! Necrons would become a powerhouse under these rules! I can't wait!

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    2. If people stop taking vehicles, nids should start climbing the rankings again.

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    3. I would really love to see my Nids being playable.On the other hand, Haywires are not that game-breaking... firs, you have to hit, then do some effect. And Scourges are fragile, and not really cheap. You take 10 models for 240 points to be able to deliver 4 shots. I'm not saying they are bad, because they are not. But they are not as game-breaking as say Scarabs imo.
      Haywire grenades - yeah, they are bad, but considering they only hit on 6+ if the vehicle moved fast enough... so no instant kill vehicles here.
      However, Vehicles are really the bane of 5th, so I expect some changes here in 6th. However, Rhinos and Land Raiders are so different I cannot justify the 3 and 4 hull points. Besides that Rhinos are AV11/10 and LRs are AV14 - takes hell of a time to glence them to death. So, I can't wait to see whar changes 6th will bring!

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    4. Can someone justify why vehicles are the bane of 5th edition please? I see no problem with them at the moment.

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    5. Shrike. How many missile launchers does it take to blow up a rhino on average. The answer is about 9 shots with marines, or 12 with IG. BS 3 or 4. Only half penetrate, and it takes 3 penetrating hits on average to destroy a single rhino.

      it can be a lot less, and it can be a lot more.

      Now take into account, that my IG list fields 18-20 AV 12 vehicles. You are not going to destroy them all, in fact no one is really going to get close to destroying them all.

      I have had games where heavy shooting armies have spent two entire rounds of shooting before a single tank on my side was destroyed. And that includes drop poding melta and whatever else.

      Armour in 5th edition is too hard to destroy. Infantry armies on the other hand are much easier to eliminate/ 300 orks by round 3? no problem.

      I love armour, and have always fielded it. I have some 30+ vehicles that I own for my IG alone.

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    6. I guess because if it has av14, then your gonna need something to punch it. In allbtruthbits just because many players are lazy and don't want to try to adjust their lists or tactically think about dealing with a tank other than melta. Also spammability with razorbacks, mech lists, yeah something like that I think.

      Doesn't reflect my personal opinion about vehicles as I think they can go down with one shot but change the game with one shot.

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  2. As a dark eldar player myself I agree with your logic but only initially. Our vehicles are still some of the most fragile. If other armies saturate with mid strength shooting we'll still struggle to keep vehicles alive. The interesting thing will be what happens to cover saves. if they become 5+ as rumours have said then our dark lances will be better anyway.

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    1. so dark eldar will be way better. with darklight weapons doing better and haywire weapons adding to the carnage. Darklight will be more reliablly killing lighter stuff and heavier stuff getting ripped apart by haywire. Web way portals will be stronger as massed wyches charging out will be better against vehicles. People will be forced to deploy infantry to block off infantry access to vehicles instead of hiding in them. exposing them the splinter fire

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  3. or swooping hawks and wraithguard

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  4. Seems like these new hull point rules will even up the vehicle/infantry playing field and at the same time make the game much more tactical; you can't just rely on heavily aoured tanks to protect u from factions who are more fragile. I see necrons and DE both being big contenders for the top spot, why with all the gauss and haywire weapons available ( a Cryptek harbinger of the storm with a lightning field will be quite a deterrent for a raider full of wyches hehe; 4 S5 haywire shots popping the transport then D6 S8 AP5 hits to the unit when they try and charge

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  5. I also think with charging from deep strike and breathe of chaos extra damage from hull points, daemons will be much better. no more taking it to the face hoping for good inv saves.

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    1. on a side note grayknight lists will have to change to keep from getting swarmed by furious charging doa armies, raveners, trygon, winged tyrants, bonesword warriors and homagaunts out of pods, maybe even hammernaters and chaos terminators. They will have to mix in some warp quake squads or watch their psydreads and henchmen squads vanish. Plus with random charge length they are not assured a timely counter charge so will have to stick together more closely or get rocked piecemeal.

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    2. Very true, probably why Grand Masters have the option to give them counter-attack! On another gk note the use of psybolt ammunition might rise if they glance hull points away. My nids are still hurtin, but i can imagine pod armies becoming VERY viable

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    3. give a unit counter attack or make it scorin, forcing hard decisions on gray knight players sounds like win to me.

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    4. I really would love to see charging from deep strike as Nidz would became useablr (Lictors, anybody) - and charging critters from spore pods are much more realistic than dumb critters standing in enemy fire for a while after deep striking because they are dizzy... But imagine being charged by deep striking FA12/FA13 Dreads. (Marines with Drop Pod lists can have 3 of them in the 1st turn, without the enemy being able to do anything to counter them. Autowin button?) And bam, your infantry unit is locked for the rest of the game... That's not that cool unless there will be some changes in the Dread rules.

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    5. putting your army in reserve has always been a strong tactic against mass drop pod list or bubble wrapping cheap infantry out to keep them off. put some melta in your screen for snap fire when dreads charge you for a lucky shot when they charge you. Marines will have it hardest but you could use hammer termies out to absorb the hit. Again you will be putting in difficult choices into list design so all good. vehicle parks will not appreciate it for sure.

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    6. Don't things like drop pods only make the units inside 'count as' deep striking? So they wouldn't actually be able to charge after coming out? Or am I thinking of the rule wrong?

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    7. They do have a rule which specifically states units inside a drop pod cannot assault after deep striking. :P

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  6. Considering DE can already compete I wouldnt find it shocking at all if they were kicked up a notch or two come 6th.

    All Praise The Kelly!

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    1. Looks like they will get even more wiggle room in army lists.

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  7. Judging from these leaks id have to inbiasedly say that it's betweens Necrons an DE. Sure DE have this stuff bu necrons also have gauss and living metal.

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  8. Although I won't say that the rule would be bad, I am going to say that a rule that very obviously benefits one faction's every unit is quite a bold move from GW. If glancing hits are as effective as penetrating hits, but due to being easier to score are per point a better investment, then about every Necron unit with a ranged attack will be severely buffed...

    And I don't know about your meta, but in my experience, I haven't found vehicles to be that troublesome/foolproof at all. My Chimeras die all the time, as do my Russes when I occationally field them. Wave serpents take damage too, just like the rest of 'em, whilst dealing with Monoliths, Hammerheads, Arks of both flavours and Rhinos hasn't been THAT difficult.

    The biggest gripe I have, ATM, is that a glancing hit is bound to cause SOME damage to the tank whatever it rolls. For shooty tanks, that's just dumb. Why should I be happier that my tank lost its track compared to just a slight jolt that merely scratched the paint?

    If they have this sort of system, then I would expect vehicles to be able to shrug off more damage until destroyed, ie. a glancing 1 wouldn't be enough stop a Russ from shooting, for example.

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    1. Thank you... Someone who feels the same as I do. In my opinion, tanks are not at all overpowered. They die quite quickly from experience, and if you score a hit you will cause damage.
      I think the big problem is that vehicle rules aren't balanced too well. Some parts of the rules are quite good, whereas some parts just don't make sense, such as the rules about moving and shooting. Whilst a walker can move 6" and shoot all it's weapons, a tank cannot. It doesn't make much sense to me.
      Also, something worries me about this rule. 4 glancing hits on a Land Raider, and it's dead? I want a massive point reduction in that case. Lots of things can cause automatic glancing hits, which will really screw it over.
      And the final part of my rant: Super-heavies. If they put this on f***ing baneblades and the like, I will be irate.They already have structure points instead. And God forbid that they even think about giving Titans hull points.

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    2. Haha and suddenly a 20 man necron blob glances and destroys all the titans hull points XD that's almost as funny as watching 15 scarabs Munch away a Reaver Titan in 1 turn....

      Almost.....

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    3. Lol I take it no one in your area plays as nids or Orks. Using nids - playing an Imperial Guard player with 3+ leman russes and everything else in a chimera is the equivalent of physically throwing your plastic nids against a brick wall. Hell at least the brick wall will give you some satisfaction as you watch your worthless models smash to bits.

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    4. or u get through the hull points first before taking damage. that way a land speeder gets destroyed long BEFORE a land raider

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    5. Actually anon 8:02, I stumbled across a an apoc game of IG and nids. And nids were crushing IG mech list. The nidplayer had a craploads of carnifexes and wrecked his baneblade and tanks.

      Also nearly every person in my group plays every type of army there is so it's very diverse.

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    6. Carnifexes cant shoot as well so people automatically dismiss it. My friends carnifex wreck anything it touches. Str 10 charge rerolling all misses, in 4 on charge and grenade equivilants it is good. You can just shoot em down with massed missiles but you better

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    7. In apoc with a lot of them, sure you have a good chance of catching something but if it moved cruising speed you hit on 6s. Yes if you take 2xa scytals you reroll misses, however a carnifex only has 4 attacks. Not to mention it costs close to 200 points and has no movement boosts whatsoever. A smart general will keep out of range of a fex with vehicles. Also theres the sv 3+. With 4wounds one round of missile fire from one squad will outright kill a 200 point model that has to foot slog with little chance of obtaining cover. Carnifex is a poor example of a good nid unit vs mech.

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    8. Also against non vehicles, a carnifex is ws 3 and only iniaitive 3 on the charge, not 4. So its only going first against orks or crons and the odd powerfist. Keep in mind thats IF it gets the charge -you with a max 12" assault range, that's not as likely as youd expect. Having carnifexes as one od the only units with grenades is a slap in the face. Now if you want to argue that trygons are good anti mech id agree. With 6 base attacks, fleet, and rerolls, theres a good chance it will catch and pop a vehicle. Ws 5 and I5 help against anything non mech. At 180pts it really shows you how dumb carnifexes became. Whay is sad tho - it feels very purposeful, since most nid generals had 6 of the things last ed.

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  9. Huh... and I thought Haywire Blasters/Grenades, Gauss and Tau EMP Grenades (which will no doubt get a buff/points reduction in the futre) were already good anti-armour options.

    I like how some of the old Rogue Trader stuff is making it's way back into the game.

    Just give the Tau Graviton Guns and we'll be all laughing for The Greater Good.

    Yes. Tau with Graviton Guns...

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  10. Though truthfully idont think we can say which army will be king of 6ed as we haven't seen all the cards and 6ed codexes yet...

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  11. Luck for me that i do not feild harly any tanks ( to poor :( ) but thats gonna hurt mech guard armys.

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  12. Such excitement. I can't see these rules working the way so many people expect. Lets face it, 4 glancing hits and a land raider is dead? Rubbish! GW loves vehicle profits and that would be a great way to nerf sales. Now a phased "falling apart" in a similar way to the "no limits sci-fi" rules, that would make a lot more sense.
    Either way, we'll know soon enough.

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    1. 4 glancing hits, hull points exhausted, next hit is able to disable or take out the land raider. that is how I am viewing it at this point. the books comes out in a few short weeks...

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  13. Or how about this?
    As long as the vehicle has hull points, glancing hits get nerfed one step back, even to 0. Any penetrating hit causes loss of a hull point in addition to the damage it does. If vehicle looses all modules, all hull points or is destroyed, it is removed from play.
    This means that massed glancing hits can destroy tanks the current way by stripping guns and tracks. A lucky pen can detonate the ammunition and fuel onboard and wreck the tank in one go, but neither can a tank suffer endless penetrating hits and survive, like a Rhino being hit five times by Railguns and the Tau player rolling 1s each turn for damage.
    This would be a realistic system that would represent armored warfare quite well. Your tank can survive a few rounds through the plating, maybe, but any more than a few and it's out of action. If a round fails to penetrate, it can't do damage to internal systems, only damage gun barrels, optics, tracks, etc. However, a detracked tank without guns will be scuttled by its crew who then flee the field.

    Balanced, IMO, and realistic. Thoughts?

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  14. Haywire is 83.33% BS now. Sounds beyond broken in 6th ed.

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  15. Ooh. Necrons may well be the Bee's Knees in early 6th (Until other 6th ed armies come out, at least). The Storm Cryptek has a substantial chance of being an army MVP. Think if a scythe can drop off even a min size squad of warriors led by a stormtek within 12" of a vehicle. Average 1 glance from the gauss rapidfires, 2-3 glances from the haywire effect, and maybe even a glance from the Str 5 hits as well. That's 3-5 hull points removed just by one 90 point unit, And then the contents of the newly wrecked vehicle could be fried by the Destructor on the Scythe. Just under 200 points for spammable vehicle munching units.

    Then, depending on the wording of how Hull points are removed, Living Metal could be AMAZING. After a shaken result is rolled, roll another die. On a 2+, "The result is Ignored" The same is said on Crew Stunned, but that requires a 4+. So, necron vehicles would be even more resilient compared to the rest of the meta, as Crew Shaken/Stunned may not necessarily remove a Hull Point. And to think I was miffed that Living Metal had to be rolled for every result, while GK's Fortitude just works, no matter how many shaken results were rolled.

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