Moving away from specific armies while discussing what is on the horizon, there are now some specific weapons that I believe we will be seeing coming back to more lists.... flamers. Just look at some of the rules we could be seeing, snap fire, setting terrain on fire, and one I have not really mentioned because of its vagueness, and that's templates hitting models not units.

As it is now, flamers were something that I did have in my lists, but really only in my Imperial Guard lists. There they were very easy to get into the list and did their job for a very small point cost. With some of these rules changes, I see flamers changing the game.

The flamer could very easily turn certain units into real defensive anti assault units. It would bring a new  definition to the idea of the bubble wrap. IG units with tons of flamers in them could be very hard to assault in mass.

Lets look at some of the rules rumored to be coming

Snapfire:
A unit being charged gets to shoot (pistols, rapid fire, and assault weapons) at BS1. Flamers if allowed to use snapfire will be the defensive weapon of choice. No need to roll, just hit a ton of models preparing to assault you. This would also make the enemy units have to carefully choose where they are going to attempt to assault you (hopefully to not get flamed to death before the assault)

Setting Terrain on Fire:
This is huge. Take a simple look at Grey Knight Interceptor Squad. 30" of movement, followed by two Incinerators. Add to that the chance of setting that terrain on fire, and we have some serious devastation caused by a super fast moving unit that could be anywhere on the board it chooses.

Templates hitting models:
This rumor is very vague and borderlines wish listing, but it something to mention briefly. This, combined with snapfire, could be devastating as models move into position for assaulting. I believe we would still see the requirement for hitting the most models under the template if this rule does indeed come into 6th.

Over all flamers are very cheap compared to the cost of heavy weapons. Not to mention that there are some nasty flamers out there. There are many people that just do not field flamers, could they be the new meta for 6th edition?

25 Comments:

  1. Too bad the most your getting out of a flamer is strength 4 unless it's a heavy one. But this would deffinately discourage nid players to charge you. But Id have to guess there'd be SOME kind of penalty.

    Hmmm maybe I'll place an order for more DKoK flamer teams....

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    1. Nidz players (are there eny of them left?) are already f***ed while charging because of the lack of grenades, thus assaulting through cover, and charging last.
      Furthermore, Nidz do not have any weapons that can deal with mass Sv3+ AND they have no viable flamers. Yes, Termagants can have S2 flamers (really, Cruddance? S2?), and Pyrovores use Elite slots, and T-Fexes cane have them. Compared to each and every army out there where most units can have flamers. (Just look at DE Wracks + Haemonculus with 2-3 AP D6 flamers. Why would you charge them?)
      So I'm really hoping for some great improvement for my poor Nidz... :(

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  2. If a flamer or template weapon can "snap-fire" then perhaps it will only be able to count as a single hit against the assaulting unit. Then again, if we believe the "closest model hit" wound allocation, then for effectiveness front line flamers will be at risk, especially from pre-assault firing from pistols and assault weapons.

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  3. Lol - maybe there is finally a use for the Pyrovore!!!

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  4. Also i've been wondering If they will finally remove +1 damage roll to opened topped vehicles. That would be amazing! Just thought I'd make my Christmas list early this year :)

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    1. Either that or the removal of the +1 for AP 1. That would see a decline in meltas and a likely return to plasma.

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    2. My poor railguns! D:

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    3. That would make AP1 entirely pointless. If you remove the +1 from AP1 weapons, then there is no difference between AP1/AP2 for any situation, vehicles or otherwise.

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    4. I think it'd be cool if AP 1 reduced/denied invuln saves.

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  5. regarding the stand and shoot those who attack you, have you guys heard anything about using psychic shooting attacks? if they're legal im thinking

    space wolves rune priest: thunderclap = large blast hit assault psychic and also fury of the wolf spirit = 3 high strength high ap 2 low strength low ap shots in assault - AND... if only a single wound goes through a morale check has to be taken

    could you really make the guys that charges you flee before they arrive due to some magic ghost wolves coming from no where? :P

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    1. Interesting idea, but as far as I am aware Psychic powers can onyly ever be used in your own turn, so could not be used in your enemies turn when they are initially making their assault. Of course there are two caveats to this 1) I may be mistaken, 2) this is by 5th edition rules, and we have no idea of 6th edition rule specifics.

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    2. There could be more, but warptime definitely can be used in both turns (not that it's much use since it was FAQ'd).

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    3. Shield for the BA is used defensively in the opponent's shooting phase, so there is precedent for defensive, off-turn psychic weapons. IF these rumors are true, then MAYBE you'll see snap-fire psychic shooting, although I think it's unlikely.

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    4. These powers though are not offensive powers (I will have to look up warptime though as I am not familiar with it). I should have said no offensive powers being activated in your enemy's turn.

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    5. Warptime means that you re-roll all rolls to hit and wound. This means that when the user attacks and roll to hit, if they use the effect, ALL rolls to hit that the user has just made are re-rolled. Same applies for to wound rolls. Pretty much useless to be honest. On the other hand, if it was failed rolls to hit and wound, which is frighteningly common now, it might be used a lot more.
      It's not really a defensive or offensive power, it just provides a negligible bonus to the user in close combat.

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  6. Well If this is the case then my incinerators my see the light of day in my Grey Knight army :)

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  7. Incinerators & Heavy Incinerators already have a place in my infantry based Grey Knight army... I look forward to seeing how my IG, Necrons & Grey Knights change in the new game... bring it on!

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  8. There's also the chance that templates may move from "auto-hit" to "roll to hit" format (which is how templates are used in PP games) - their main advantage would still be in number of hits generated and bypassing cover, but this sort of move might help explain why DE Grotesques are BS 1, even though their only gun is the Liquifier, while Incubi are BS 4, even though their only gun is the Bloodstone (a S3 AP 3 template that the Sgt. can buy). Even then a BS 1 template while probably generate some hits on Snap Fire, given how the attacking models will have to bunch up for the assault, but it wouldn't be nearly as deadly as templates under 5th in the same situation.

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  9. A lot of it will depend on how and when hits are determined. If shots are done once the unit is in range, or range is ignored for snap-fire, then flamers will be great.

    If it is done before the unit charges and uses normal range, you'll see Calvary and Beasts be even stronger than they are now.

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  10. The more I hear about snap fire, the more I'm convinced it will be a special rule that will not apply to every unit, just specific ones. Units without close combat capabilities (many Tau units, for instance) may have this special rule to give them some kind of defense against being assaulted. It makes very little sense, however, that every unit in the game would be able to snap fire.

    Though if it DOES apply to everyone, Flamers of Tzeentch will get HILARIOUSLY more effective when assaulted.

    And this has been mentioned, but snapfire is pulled directly from the Zone Mortalis rules, and I'm unsure if it will even be incorporated into the main ruleset.

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    1. the leaked ruleset had also, has Defensive Fire.

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  11. Anonymous 10:44AM. There are plenty of units in teh gam that have BS values and they dont have any option of ranged fire, least of all a template weapon. Hormogaunts, Parasite of Mortrex, tyrant gaurd, Old One Eye, for example from Tyranids. I see this as being an example of fluff, in that these creatures share similar traits with other creatures, but could be considered to have this amount of visual acuity, or skill with ranged weapons should they in a fluff sense obtain one.

    It would be silly to think that a killing machine like an Incubi warrior wouldnt know what to do with or how to shoot a splinter pistol if one fell into their hands (even though they dont have an option for one). Why would they be a worse shot than a standard Dark Eldar warrior? In the same respect, I see Grotesques as having only a a vague ability to use a ranged weapon, being essentially mindless weapons of meat. Hence BS 1 reflects the fluff that they can at least in principle fire a weapon in the vague direction of the enemy, but it had best be a wide area effect weapon and not a precision weapon.

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    1. Also necron death Ray has BS but I don't think it says you must roll to hit

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  12. I thought pretty much along the same lines.
    Units like Purgators or Purifiers with four Incinerators and six halberds sitting in some airdropped heavy cover suddenly get hilarious.
    Burnaboyz, DespairCourt and, most of all, the Flying Flamerwoosh Council become unholy terrors.
    Also, I wonder if vehicles get snap fire.

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  13. Something that I don't get about Snapfire and Flamer templates...when are you going to actually lay the template on the table to see who you hit???

    A charging unit is moving from point A (starting position) to point B(in base to base combat). You don't literally move each model along their set path - you pick them up from point A and put them in point B.

    You'll likely start out of Flamer range and end up where the narrow start of the Flamer template can only touch 1 model that is in base to base contact with the Flamer unit (maybe 2 if there are lots of attackers).

    I don't see this rule happening as you first think about it - as someone above said, its more likely they will just automatically hit a single target.

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