Vehicles in 6th edition have changed the way we play 40k. My first response to 6th edition increased the number of infantry units on my battlefields. I saw a huge shift in what I thought were the strongest lists, and that in general included less and less armour. However, as time has gone on, I have taken a complete 180 in my lists, and more and more vehicles are making it into my lists.

So what do I think of mechanized lists in 6th edition?


First off, I want to give a props to Mercer over on Imperius Dominatus for a good article on 6th edition vehicles. In essence, my conclusion slightly differs from Mercer's, but I agree on all his points. So in that regard, I am not going to go through all his points. So go on over and read what he has to say.
http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2012/10/discussion-vehicles-in-6th-for-better.html

I am going to make the declaration that I believe mechanized lists are stronger now than they have ever been. Over the next few articles I am going to go into probably too much detail about what I think of vehicles in 6th edition. Now there are some serious changes to how mech is used in 6th. Lets start with transports. I do not expect many people to believe what I do about 6th edition vehicles, but follow along and lets see where it takes us. (I may convince myself otherwise... who knows)

Transports:
If you are using lots of dedicated transports, you already know you cannot assault directly from one, unless it is specifically an assault vehicle. This means that transports in general are for shooty armies. Melta and Plasma guns for example.

The effects on passengers from a damaged vehicle is one of the biggest changes to 6th edition. For example, getting your vehicle destroyed, does not allow you to assault the next round.

page 80 main rulebook for Effect of Damage on Passengers


Q: If passengers disembark from a Transport that has suffered a
Shaken or Stunned result, do they still suffer these effects in their
next Shooting phase? (p80)
A: Yes


Q: If a unit disembarks from a destroyed vehicle during the enemy
turn, can it Charge in the Assault phase of its own turn? (p80)
A: No, unless the vehicle in question was an Assault Vehicle

This is important because lets say a squad of Havocs with Autocannons shoots up your rhino. It is destroyed, but also suffers several other effects, including a stun effect at the time it was wrecked (the stun effect happened even though the vehicle was destroyed). This results in a devastating blow to the passengers, as they are now stunned and cannot shoot in their next shooting phase, not to mention they have now been de-meched.

Transports have definitely changed. Your transports must fit into the role of your list. A rhino offers firepoints, and two models to fire out of it. Rhinos used in this role, should be given extra armour, to keep your guys inside firing (albeit shaken results will force snap shots). Otherwise your rhino is simply a method to get your troops very quickly across the battlefield. Rhinos going flat out are extremely fast now, and can get you were you need to go up to 18" in a single round.

Razorbacks are the king of MSU. They remain so, but to be efficient in 6th edition they must be cheap. Look to Blood Angels and Grey Knights for the best razorbacks. Razorbacks from other army types have lost a bit of their luster, as they are not as point efficient as their brothers.

Transports in general now more than ever must have a very specific role on the tabletop. You can no longer claim an objective while sitting inside your vehicle.

Secondary Objectives.....
This is yet another notch in why people should think heavily whether they want a transport for their unit. First Blood. Secondary objectives are very valuable in 6th edition, and rhinos and other light armour are the first and easiest way to obtain that objective. So when you are designing your list, its important to consider, "am I just giving my opponent an important victory point?"

You might after reading this first segment on transports think that I do not like razorbacks or other light armour lists. This is very far from the truth. Its important to understand the limitations of your dedicated transports and their drawbacks before we can make the best use of these vehicles.

Later tonight, look for part 2.





42 Comments:

  1. This should be interesting, as I have found the exact opposite to be true. I won't go into detail because I want to see how your conclusion differs from mine, but so far, I have gone to a completely foot-slogging army because of how quickly transports die for me now.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have turned to pure foot-slogging Thousand Sons.

      Foot-slogging anything is viable.

      Delete
  2. I think unbiasedly id have to say Night Scythes are the best transports in the game.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And if you dont know why:

      http://jdandtheendoftimes.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-necron-royal-airforce.html?m=1

      Delete
    2. Nö its minivans!
      Icecream-minivan-Trucks

      Delete
  3. Nooo they are Not stuned if the vehicle is destroyed.

    It clearlly say "if they disembark from a vehicle that Suffed stunded shaken"""
    As the vehicle is destroyed now... they did Not disembark from a shaken or stunned vehicle!!!! But a destroyed vehicle wich counts as destroyed & Not shaken & destroyed!



    Transports Suck now becaus they are killed more Easy in melee Not in General

    But what really makes them Bad is the los of 2" inch disembarging. And that youre vehicle is left behind 6" so you cant use it as Cover when rapidfire droping.... Thus makeing rapidfire Drops a Bad idea for the Most.

    Also the squadron rules are much worse.

    There are still uses for vehicles but much Less and Not very many Cost effektiv ones.

    Only Thing i find much better now are snapfire Driveby's with opentoped stuff, like orks can do.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They didn't lose 2" disembark, btw. It was increased to "all models must be within 6" of the access point from which they are disembarking." I'd say that's the exact opposite of a nerf. So, how is your transport left 6" behind, exactly? The book says that a unit may disembark as long as the vehicle has moved less than 6". So, you can drop a squad, move them around within 6" of the access point, then move your vehicle to cover them. It's actually extremely flexible.

      Delete
    2. Anon. Page 80 under effects of damage on passengers.

      Passengers must immediately disembark in the usual manner save that they must end their move wholly within 3" rather than 6".

      So yes, if you are wrecked, you still suffer the stunned and shaken result.

      Delete
    3. @narfka

      no
      if its destroyed, its not shaken anymore
      sooooo that doesnt apply at that point

      the wording of the rule is clear enough
      IT would say smth like "also" or "additional"
      if it worked youre way



      @ anon
      ofc you lost 2"
      before: 12" move 2" disembark
      now: 6" move 6" disembark

      also you can´t move the vehicle further after... you only get to move once and you cant do flatout either after disembarging, also raming & tankshocking are disallowed

      pls people read the rules more than once and don´t play as youre friends claim the rules are without double checkin

      transports got huge nerf and they just don´t do it anymore in some dexes

      Delete
    4. Are you a kid?

      Delete
  4. If you are playing 2k I fully agree. Being able to take up to 12 Razorbacks isn't really a bad thing....spam got spammier.

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  5. What does MSU mean?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Go to google and type in 'what is the acronym for many/multiple small units'.

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    2. Multiple/Many Small Units

      Delete
  6. It would have been fairer if units shot out of their transports take a pinning test instead. Have the unit suffer a -1 to the check for each model lost in the explosion (if any).

    Its lazy rules writing to make them auto useless when it happens to them.

    ReplyDelete
  7. The disembark rules in 6th were a major nerf. It would have been better had you still been able to assault out if the tank had not moved. Now you can't no matter what. So you move your rhino 18" turn 1, move 6" and disembark turn 2, and can't assault till turn 3. That's 3 turns your opponents have to kill the transport and everything in it, before you can do anything. Transports are useless unless you're using them to sit on an objective till its time to disembark and claim it. I agree with jaydee. The only good one now is the night scythe.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No love for DE Raiders? Armor 10 with 3 HP and 5++. Sounds good to me.

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    2. Night scythes are flyers that can move 24 in. Disembark troops and have them fire at full effect. Oh and you get that tesla cannon thing. For 100 point iirc.

      Delete
    3. Raider are ok. 10 10 10 is bad. I dont get why youd spend the points for 5++ when you get a 5+ jink save. They are average at best. Use them in large fleets since they're cheap.

      Delete
    4. yeah night scythes are absurd

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    5. You were not able to assault from a vehicle unless it was an assault vehicle in 5th either.

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    6. Wrong. In 5th you could assault out of a rhino if it did not move before disembarking. So you were still able to move your tank, stay safe inside it, then next turn disembark and assault.

      Delete
  8. I have found that two or three transports are actually good. They are usually ignored and have only had one game in a recent tournament that I lost all three. I believe that razor spam is not viable...but take a couple and they have a role in a competitive army still.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Speaking from an Eldar point of view: from the get-go I thought that our vehicles would get more bang for their buck because the need for holofields diminished greatly. That's 35 points saved on each tank.
    In gameplay this has panned out well for me. Also, I believe that all vehicles are as strong as they have been. To be used to the fullest the general needs to execute on the first two turns because after that they are quite possibly cashed...but it's hard to get rid of the enemies armor in the first of the game.

    Just what I've experienced.
    And I have to say, as much as I want a new codex give the next ones to Tau, SoB, Demons and whoever else needs one. I'm 9-0 in 6th!!!

    ReplyDelete
  10. Take 3 land Raiders! Had a 2k against a friend 3 weeks ago with 2 Crusaders and 1 normal landraider, 3 squads of terminators, 2 Ven Dreads with Plasma Cannons, and Belial with an Interrogator Chaplain... End of Game, all 3 of the land raiders were still kicking and fighting happily. :)

    Prime

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's crap like this that means that i NEVER take less than 5, and usually 8 melta guns in any list.
      When the 5th marine book came out, I had far too many ironclad dreads w/ dual heavy flamer in drop pods in my back field to ever run non mech, no-melta again :(

      Delete
    2. Land Raiders are the exception to the 'gone on turn three' rule for armor. My DA buddy lost against me but he still had two LR on the board, one crippled but one was just missing a sponson.

      Delete
    3. Dude. Gauss against landraider= dead. Everytime.

      Delete
    4. Mathmatically you're needing to remove 12 hull points. With 10 warriors you'll get 7 hits, perhaps one hull point.

      Mathmatically, it's an absurd idea to rely on gauss - especially as they'll likely flamestorm you before then, assault your troops and reduce your ability to fight back.

      Now, if you had said haywire from Crypteks of the storm...

      Delete
    5. 15 necron warriors in a night scythe = dead land raider. I killed 2 defilers in 2 consecutive turns doing this, AV14. 30 shots at double tap range.

      Delete
  11. Wondering if this would be too overpowering. Just make the "Tank" descriptor double the amount of hull points. Using the new CSM codex means that:

    Rhino, Vindicator, Predator go from 3 to 6, but with their low armor values gives a player the option to go extreme torrent of fire, or just use a heavy weapon to pop it.

    Land Raider goes from 4 to 8. Now this could be a problem, although it takes a pretty high strength Heavy weapon just to reach the AV14, so this could get popped just as easily as glanced.

    Defiler, Helbrute, Fiends, and Heldrake are unaffected meaning no extra bonuses to flyers (as they don't really need them) and specialist vehicles like walkers are still easy to neutralize without them being over bearing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But if you think about it paying 35pts for something with 3 hull points is a pretty good deal. 6 on the other hand would make it really difficult to kill especially for armies like orks or tyranids who already struggle with vehicles

      Delete
    2. Orks don't struggle against armor. My buddy takes 3 squads of ten lootas and utterly crushes every single vehicle on the board by turn three.

      It's part of the reason I run foot-slogging CSM now.

      Delete
  12. Transports are just too good not to play with. They counter Ord Barrage sniping, prescision shots from sniper rifles, squad death from Baleflamers, The Avenger (psychic power), Flamestorm Cannons, units getting assaulted, Noise Marine Blastmasters, Vector Strikers and a lot of other things that can make a fast mess of your scoring units. Ap 3 ignores cover. Until I see a Ap 3 ignores cover and vehicle armor weapon. Transports are the safest and against some weapons/armies, the only safe place on the table for your infantry.

    Bellumvinco

    ReplyDelete
  13. Battlewagons and Trukks are still good. In fact, with front model removal, they're almost necessary if you're still interested in playing an assault game. Winning initiative is pretty important if you're running a mechanized Ork list, though. Having said that, there's not a lot out there these days that doesn't just bounce off the front of a Battlewagon anyways.

    But the idea is turn 1, stuff the vehicles down their throat, kill some of their transports with lootaz (just be sure to be a safe distance from their models so they don't wrap/wreck you), and then in turn 2 assault them after you soften them up with the dakkajets.

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  14. Dark Eldar love to spam vehicles. As people are expecting less vehicles now they can rarely deal with 8 and 3 flyers.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Speaking of vehicles. I was trying to find a reference to open topped transports getting a S3 hit instead of a S4 but couldn't find it. Are all transports now a S4 AP- hit across the board?

    ReplyDelete
  16. *edit: add to above* when a transport explodes

    ReplyDelete

 
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