Somehow this got lost in my inbox, so I wanted to make sure it gets its post. I want to say first off, that I have no first hand knowledge of how Maelstrom Games is doing, but I also do not want fellow hobbyist to get the short end of the buck. On that end, I would be careful of ordering through companies that are close or seem to be going under.


I have read about this on various sites, especially the ones listed, and figured I had best get this posted. A huge thanks to MadCowCrazy for putting this together.

Please if anyone has anything to add to this, or if you find the information incorrect, please comment below. This is all about protecting the hobbyist. If Maelstrom is now solid, please send me some info.

Lets not take this conversation down the toilet.

via MadCowCrazy
There has been allot of talk about Maelstrom Games lately. No one seems to know for sure what's going on but to me it seems they might be going under and scamming as many people as they can before they do. 

I ordered 2 DV Starter sets back in August and still haven't received them, trying to contact Maelstrom Games is now impossible as they refuse to answer phone calls or reply to emails. 

https://www.duedil.com/company/04724863/maelstrom-games-limited/financials 

From what I've read it seems the person who owns Maelstrom is scamming as many people as he can before the company declares bankruptcy. It seems they have no intention of fulfilling orders of which they have no stock. 

A new company has been started under the name of: 
http://eye-of-the-storm.co.uk/ 

A person went there and asked about outstanding orders with Maelstrom (it's the same place) and was told those belonged to the old company and had nothing to do with the new. 
They also had new staff it seems. 

Dakka Discussion 
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/464643.page 

BoLS Discussion 
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?25328-Internet-Companies-going-down-the-swanny-MAELSTROM-GAMES 

Beasts of War Discussion 
http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/news-rumors/forum/topic/maelstrom-in-trouble/?topic_page=1&num=15 

This is all rumours and speculation at this point but I would advise people to open paypal disputes with Maelstrom as soon as possible so you dont get scammed. Maelstrom owes me 2 DV Starters and because it's been over 45 days Paypal refuses to give me any money back. 

In either case it might be a good idea to stay clear of Maelstrom and Eye of the Storm for the time being. 

Looking forwards to the next rumours post
MadCowCrazy 

77 Comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. if you buy anything on a visa card not a visa-debit you have a year to complain about the retailed and visa will actully take money back from the vendor

      as per visa network T&C

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    2. I work for Nationwide and although you have 13 months to dispute a payment it isn't guaranteed.

      With debit cards, usually your bank will cover you initially but if they can't get their payment back, they would have to collect the payment back from you.

      Credit cards ate safer to use online.

      Who ever your with, call them up and ask advice. Usually they can complete a visa dispute form for you over the phone.

      Togg

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  2. Well, something smells awfully fishy here...

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    1. So far I've got part of an 'in stock only' order through. The rest shows of processing or packing. I have faith until proved otherwise as he is very clear that only orders on 'in stock' items should be made.

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  3. For what it is worth - the Eye of the Storm has been around for a while as their physical retail location, and has been operating that way for quite a while. That being said, I am still not touching Maelstrom with a barge pole....

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  4. I actually had a bad experience with Maelstrom games a few years back. They had some limited edition terrain that GW carried for a special event, the ruined citadel that was painted and had the stained glass inserts and everything. They were selling it for only $45 a piece, so I ordered 2. After 4 weeks without it being listed as shipped, I e-mailed them and their response was that they were out of stock, and waiting for GW to send them more before shipping. I got pissed, since they hadn't been for sale for a couple of years at that point, and I asked for my money back. It took 4 days of bickering with them to just get a refund. After that stupid shit, I have avoided them like the plague. They may or may not be going under, but from the experiences of me and a few others I know, they have always been a bad company :(

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  5. This kind of information needs to be posted on BoLS front page.

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    1. Ya it is good to know but not in the UK so I would not order from them. Also I do agree this might fit better on Bell but I would not want to slander a company if this is not true.

      A little bit of a touchy topic.

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    2. It'd be libel actually. :)

      Although if Marlstrom Games took issue with this post I'm pretty sure Naftka would be protected for several reasons:
      1. He added a caveat that he did not know if the information was factual
      2. He wrote it without malice, with the intention of protecting hobbyists.
      3. It would be up to Maelstrom to disprove the claims. It's only defamation if it's untrue.

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    3. If maelstrom wanted to dipsrove claims, they'd post everything ASAP :/ That being said, before the (stupid) UK-AUS embargo came in place, I'd only used them once- normally UK orders take 2-3 weeks to get here, not 8-10 weeks. ^^; snail mail ain't that slow. I must say though it is rather callous that places do this to the hobbyists. GW is pricey enough already without someone trying to scam us :/

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  6. I will caveat this by pointing out that I am just a grad student taking his first business law course:

    I don't know much about Maelstrom and who/what they are, but if they are a legitimate business, there are tons of protections by law in place.

    Even though you have already given your credit card information (or made a paypal payment) a company cannot accept payment until it has earned that payment. This means that your purchase must be shipped before they accept payment. To do otherwise is a tort (torts are offenses against a person, whereas crimes are offenses against society).

    Though it is illegal for him to accept the payment through Paypal until he has shipped your purchase, Paypal automatically disburses your funds to the seller after 21 days (earlier if he has maked the item as shipped, and even earlier if he provides legit tracking information). Paypal will not disburse funds if there is an open claim; so to save yourself the hassle of getting your money back from the vendor, open up a claim if you haven't received your order by 19-20 or so days. Paypal is very open about how their system works, so if its been 45 days, they have no obligation to you anymore; however, Maelstrom is still liable to you for that order. Yeah, it is a hassle, and if he is being malicious, he could be counting on people who have missed their 21 day Paypal window to just do nothing about it.

    Now, what he can't count on is bankruptcy. Or, at least he shouldn't be, there is no guarantee that he actually knows this: debts as the result of tortious conduct are not discharged by bankruptcy. So that means if he tortiously accepted payment from you before he earned it (i.e. before shipping the order), those liabilities will not be discharged due to bankruptcy.

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    1. Oh, and what I forgot to say also. Yes, he could just disappear; but that is really only viable for someone who is a one-off con-artist/scammer, no someone who has ever run a legitimate business.

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    2. I am a business owner who deals regularly with clients who have been on the wrong end of a business bankruptcy. Either they were using the other company as a vendor or there was some dispute about the scope of work.

      It is very rare for money to be recovered on services or product companies for unfulfilled orders once the company goes bankrupt, at least in the US. Basically, when people actually file for bankruptcy protection, customers become creditors. There is usually so little cash on hand it's impossible for anyone to get back more than pennies on the dollar. I haven't really heard of criminal charges in cases like this, mostly because of the corporate veil, except in cases of outright fraud.

      That said, there are different forms of bankruptcy, and sometimes the situation is not very dire. A competitor of mine filed for bankruptcy in order to get some protection from lawsuits for about a 6 month period while he was waiting on cash to get in the door from licensing and royalties. The business emerged just fine and did settle things with customers.

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    3. Clear evidence that paypal cannot be trusted. Simply don't use them. Their desperation to keep your money at any cost will override anything, and they will (try) to say that the purchase isn't covered by UK/US law at every opportunity.

      Always use a credit card. There are no limits or timescales involved. Just let them know when you become suspicious, i.e if you've heard nothing after two or three weeks.

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    4. Whilst debts from improper trading can in theory be claimed from the directors it is almost impossible to prove that a company knows they are insolvent until they call in an IP. Therefore never rely on getting anything from a bankrupcy or relying on these laws.

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    5. I sell on the internet, using PayPal and I promise you I get the money immediately - no waiting for 21 days.

      Same for credit cards, you should only take the money when the order is sent out but most firms take the money when the order is placed.

      In the EU distance selling regulations apply and all standard orders should be sent out within 28 days. So if your order has not arrived within 30 days, start taking action, do not wait - unless of course they have contacted you and you have agreed a separate arrangement with them.

      Also you have to spend £100 with your credit card (not a debit card) to be protected under section 75 of the consumer credit act.

      So shop smart and protect yourself.

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  7. maelstrom was a mecca for us southern hemisphere okes, half my gaming club purchased from them regularly. then gw dropped the hammer about selling to us southeners and boom, 6 - 12 months later, maelstrom is going down, or seems to at least :(

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    1. I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened.

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    2. Yes, it is GW's fault that Maelstrom games is trying to quietly rip people off.

      Morons...

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    3. They said it was GWs fault that Maelstrom are going under, not that its their fault about ripping customers off.

      Please save your insults until after you have properly read the comments

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    4. According to there credit reports, that are floating around, and other roumers, it has been a problem for more than the last 12 months. GW are not the cause of this.

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    5. Yep but the business model is really simple; customer pays up front for stuff, you get the stuff from GW (on credit), send the stuff to customer, pay GW, keep the rest.

      Only problem is if you keep more than you should and build up a debt with GW.

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  8. As recent as yesterday i was still getting mailshots with 80% discounts being offered so sounds like they are shutting shop or similar. if you are in the UK go to the shop and see whats going on.

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  9. I posted this a few weeks ago on TWF (it is worth noting for those who do not know me, that I have friends who work for Maelstrom so have been getting the inside track on what is going on for a while):

    Ok I think a lot of people need to take a step back from speculation as right now a lot of what is been said is quite incorrect.

    Fact: Maelstrom took a massive hit when GW stopped them selling outside the EU. Prior to that Maelstrom were the biggest online retailer of GW products worldwide, which included GW themselves. Any surprise why GW found a way to change that fact by stopping Maelstrom selling outside the EU. That move cost Maelstrom a huge chunk of revenue.

    Fact: This summer GW then decided to go and slash the credit limits of several large UK online retailers, including Maelstrom (little google work will show this regarding other traders). With further requirements that the outstanding balance between the old and new credit limits be paid in full within 90 days. Given the size of credit Maelstrom had before, and the near unworkable size of the new limits, that balance was significant to say the least.

    Consider what would happen to any company under similar circumstances? Not just talking wargames, but any industry where their biggest supplier does the above to them?

    So what is happening is that the owners of Maelstrom, so Rob Lane, have made moves to protect the other arms of the business from the financial fall out that these decisions by GW are going to have on the reselling arm of Maelstorm (given my experience within corporate finance, especially insolvency, this is obvious). So yes they have moved the warehouse to a different premises, and registered the gaming hall as a separate company. That way one can't effect the other.

    So actually when you look at it that way, whilst yes Rob is protecting is interests and his revenue streams by doing this, he is also protecting the gaming venue (which turns profit) which in turn is protecting the community that has exploded around Eye of the Storm as a venue for both causal and tournament gaming.

    I may be sounding like a fan boy on a rant. I'm not a fan boy. But I am ranting as frankly what GW have done has/is/will hurt the gaming community by the damage it has done to Maelstrom.

    Level hate and complaints and slagging off at them I say. Not a small company that is trying to pick itself back up after been hit in the face by the bigger guy.

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    1. That's all well and good, and I agree with lots of what you say.

      However, how is this information any consolation to the people who purchased orders that have not / will not be fulfilled.

      I worked for a company that did that. Had one holding company and tens of companies under the umbrella. So many scams going on.

      Regardless of how they're acting to protect themselves, if they do this, lots of people (maybe 100's) will lose there money and there products.

      What is your view on that?

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    2. Good info. I've heard the rumors around Malestrom but having ordered directly from their company Mierce, my orders have gone out in a few days with no problems.

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    3. They had been outselling GW in GW products yet they are still "the little guy"?? puh-leeze

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    4. This is not a case of "the little guy" getting bullied by the big business. This is "the little guy" displaying poor business planning, inability to reshuffle finances to a changing economy, and FLAT OUT RIPPING OFF IT'S CUSTOMERS!

      What about the customers they are still gladly accepting money from with no intention of supplying goods to?

      What say you to that?

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    5. How does this explain why they refuse to answer phone calls or answer emails?
      What about Paypal no longer being a payment option for them?
      What about the 80% off sales etc?

      To me it seems they are trying to sell off as much stuff as they still have in stock to get as much money before they declare bankruptcy.
      Once this is done they will no longer have any obligation to pay any outstanding orders if there is no longer any money left in the company bank accounts.
      If another company buys Maelstrom they wont be responsible for the outstanding orders either nor will the last owner as the "contract" was with the company and not with him.

      I've read up on as much of the laws as I can regarding this and because Maelstrom Games Limited is a "Limited" company they have very few obligations once bankruptcy is declared or business sold.

      It's almost as if this law was made so businesses could scam people.

      No matter what happens Maelstroms/Eye of the Storms reputation will have been severely damaged. I doubt many companies will want to deal with them, EotS for instance doesn't offer GW products on sale and I doubt they will.

      No communication what so ever, hundreds if not thousands of outstanding orders, huge debts, suppliers cancelling their contracts, paypal no longer being available as a payment option.

      I'd say these are all signs the company is going under. Rob Lane protecting the company and community? More like stuffing his own pockets with as much money as he can.

      I could be wrong of course but until I receive what I've ordered this is the story I'm sticking to.

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    6. You are correct, this law was made a long time ago to scam people, sorry 'minimize liabilities' (if you're on the business side of the argument).
      Welcome to capitalism :)

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    7. So we should all just feel sorry for this guy who is taking people's money, even though he has no intention of sending them the product? Regardless of what GW have done, that makes him an asshole, and for that reason I hope he goes out of business, as he is a crook.

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    8. @Neil Kerr aka Skcuzzlebumm

      I'm sorry, but as someone who is supposedly experience within corporate finance and insolvency you should know that is BS.

      Yes companys can take a hit to turnover when credit limits are reduced, but what GW did was sensible to reduce there exposure to a very unstable market. If anything 90 days is a long time, as a UK non wholesale customer I would expect 30 days. It is clear that if this was the problem Mr Lane was relying on companys credit limits to fund his business, which as any credit manager will tell you is a sure way to fail. Relying on current orders to pay outstanding credit, rather than selling goods to pay the invoices they are billed on, is building a business on shakey ground and only lasts as long as the credit keeps flowing and the sales keep coming.

      Also, given what has been said in some places about the companys credit history over the last few years, and the way they have acted with other suppliers I am not surprised they had there credit line reduced and ten stopped. I would not be surprised if GW were not receiving payment to terms before the credit limit was reduced. You don't just cut someone's limit for the fun of it, and I haven't heard of any other "big companys" having there limit cut as you claim.

      @ Anon 11.06

      No, its not capitalism. Pure capitalism would remove the possibility of people walking away from debts. This is regulated capitalism. And the argument is that Mealsrtom are trading improperly, which if they are there is no ability to hide behind a limited status and the directors could in theory be personally liable. Proving it however is a bigger problem.

      From a credit manager and gamer who is fed up with insolvent companys complaining "Its all your fault for stopping our credit just because we couldn't pay"

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    9. Oh, also it is not GWs responsibility to keep a company running other than there own. They are not the "bad guy" and are not the one who has let anyone down.

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    10. Look at the revenue on their accounts. No way they were the "biggest online retailer". That's clearly false.

      Any company that can't meet their short term liabilities is going to go bust. Anyone who has done even a week long course on financial statements or basic business principles can tell you that. Don't try and blame GW.

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  10. Yup, email spam every week with better and better offers (last one was up to 80% off) its obviously in trouble, but tbh I had trouble with them the few times I ordered off them, years ago, up to a month wait for orders to even be dispatched. Rocket hobbies is better for uk residents (you pay for pnp, but if you get a lot its not that bad) but I get most stuff off my lgs now we finally have one.

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  11. The Southern Hemisphere Embargo certainly impacted their overall sales figures with regards to GW sales.

    However, they stock so much product from so many systems (and now even hobby products) I think they made up for it.

    Then again, I feel that it is the issue of them being the victims of their own success... the company is moving product so quickly that they run out of stock before able to fulfill more incoming orders.

    I have had orders that took 2 - 3 months to arrive but alas they did make their way to me eventually. In all my years of buying stuff from them, I only had one run in and it wasn't even their fault. It was an alternate Victorias blister that was packed wrongly and they rectified that quickly.

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  12. Thank you for reminding me about PayPal-claims.

    I have been trying to get in contact with Maelstrom for over two weeks with no success regarding two outstanding orders that they have said to send within 10 working days twice without it happening. So...

    A friend of mine however used their stock clearance sale recently and did get his stuff after a normal shipping time, so it seems to only affect out of stock and GW-stuff in particular. But something is obviously not right.

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  13. I got my 50% off mierce miniatures absolutely fine. If it's in stock, you will get it on time. It's taking on orders of stuff that isn;t in stock thats hit maelstrom this badly.

    Although I did go on last night to get some 80% off stock and they had utterly nothing in stock save the already 50% meirce minis.

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  14. So far I had no problems whatsoever with my orders from maelstrom games. Sure, those were a couple of months ago, but from what I've read:
    - They plan to move to a new warehouse and thus want to clear stock as much as possible, thats why you see all the discounts.
    - They will not take orders on stuff that is out of stock anymore. Apparently they had and now have to work trough a backlog before anything new can be purchased.

    TBH I find it a bit unfair to start somekind of witchhunt on them when they explain whats going on on their site. If you order something that is not even released or is listed out of stock, well, its your fault if you have to wait long.

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    1. Yet they still gladly accept the customer's money as if all is moving smoothly...

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    2. I did not try to order an out of stock item but:
      They clearly state that they will not take any order on these items AND that they'll finish their backlog first.

      So even IF you could still order and pay for the stuff, how stupid must one person be to not read the information on the front page, then continue to order an item that is clearly listed at OUT OF STOCK and then expects it gets delivered in like 2 weeks?

      I have to wait 6-8 weeks for my orders from wayland games all the time (even items that are listed as available), that does not mean that they scam.

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    3. There is no witch hunt. They are not fulfilling orders and have been blaming a warehouse move for about 6 months. Unfortunately there credit report shows they are real problems.

      Why should someone not get stuff that is out of stock diliverd in 2 weeks when it is in stock with the suppliers, and they diliver in a few days? I'm afraid it seems they are stringing a line and you are falling for it.

      You have been warned.

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  15. In my personal experience (and backed up by a couple of friends who have had similar experiences), is that up to a couple of years ago Maelstrom games where a great company to do business with however more recently their ability to supply you with goods quickly has fallen away. On a couple of occasions I have had to wait 4 to 6 weeks for fairly simple items to get to me, with no communication for the delay. I have also missed out on Ltd edition items which have been pre-ordered well in advance and then go out of stock before my order is filled.
    After 3 or 4 let downs from Maelstrom Games I simply gave up using them, they may be cheap but they were too unreliable. I miss the old Maelstrom Games but what it became will not be missed.

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  16. Here's the announcement from their home page. Sounds like they are at least owning up to their current troubles and taking steps to act responsibly. Whether or not this is realistic is anyone's guess:

    "Here at Maelstrom Games we have decided to clear as much of our hard-earned stock as we possibly can over the next few days - and therefore generate some much-needed cashflow - in order to ensure we can fulfil the orders that you, our valued customers, have placed over the last few weeks. To that end, we have decided - in consultation with our trading partners - to sell our remaining stock of Battlefront Miniatures (at 25% off), Perry Miniatures, Victrix, Plastic Soldier Company, Artizan Designs, Gripping Beast and Great War Miniatures (all at 30% off). All other ranges' stock will now be sold at 40% off UK RRP - we hold good stocks of Gamezone Miniatures, Dark Age, Cool Mini or Not and Scibor Miniatures, and there's a fair bit of Privateer Press and Malifaux left too. As well as that, from this moment onwards we have decided to stop any customer from placing orders for items that are not in stock, simply so that we can clear the orders that have already been placed."

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  17. Am I the only one who finds it highly irritating that people defend this kind of behaviour?
    1. Any retailer (indeed business) has a legal obligation to provide services as advertised and paid for to consumers. I don’t care what problems you have going on in your business, and frankly I don’t care. If you are insolvent, whether on a cash flow or balance sheet basis, you should not be continuing to trade.
    2. Don’t refer to piggyback retailers as ‘the little guys’. Games workshop design and produce their own products, at great expense. There is absolutely no obligation on GW to allow a retailer to reap exponential profits on their intellectual property at the expenses of pursuing profit themselves. Indeed if they did allow this, they would be bankrupt themselves and we wouldn’t have a game to play, these piggyback retailers would have nothing to sell, so they wouldn’t exist either. They are dependent on GW’s continued success.
    3. There is no excuse, ever, for poor customer service. Even if an admin error has caused more orders to be accepted than stocked, the retailer should be proactive in contacting consumers and offer alternative products/refunds. They certainly should not be ignoring their consumer base whilst they spend all their man hours spreading the assets of the company as thin as possible across multiple brands to put funds out of reach of creditors (who may well be the consumers in this case) in the event of a financial crisis.
    Think of it this way, If you went to HMV or any other music store, purchased a CD and got home to find the case empty, would you give two hoots that ‘insert record label here’ had told the music shop they couldn’t sell their CD’s in your area anymore. Would you hell, you’d want to know why on earth they had taken your money when they knew they couldn’t provide the goods. That is fraud, plain and simple.

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    1. "Give me convenience or give me death!"

      I would agree with most of your points, if this was 10 years ago and we did not use things like credit cards, Paypal and the like to secure purchases. Maelstrom is an internet retailer and, most likely, > 90% of their purchases are under $100. The majority of people waiting on purchases do have strong recourse to get their money back, and most people are looking at some time spent waiting to get their money back.

      This is the reason credit card companies charge some people higher interest rates, it goes to fund loss prevention operations and keep the system working. It's set up so people are not taking big losses when they deal with others online.

      I am sure the guys at Maelstrom are doing everything in their power to straighten out the ship, whether or not they can is another question. Calling this fraud really isn't quite right, probably unwise or stupid business decisions are at the root of it.

      We live in a just-in-time economy, where it is realistic for businesses to maintain low levels of stock and fulfill orders using products they have yet to buy. There are a lot of businesses that operate this way. Of course, when issues with cash flow arise, as they are want to do, they create situations like this.

      I mean, I could agree with the music store analogy except that they have been long-time supporters of the gaming community, and that is something that matters when I think about where to spend money. Malestrom is a company that was investing in the gaming community by having a storefront, picking up stock from a lot of retailers people may not have heard of, and clearly spending money on infrastructure on support larger operations. It does sound as if a change in the business environment affected them, but it's probably not a good thing that they are having trouble in the first place. We want communities to grow, and losing people and businesses for whatever reason means the world of wargaming is just a little bit smaller.

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    2. There is a big difference between just in time sales and relying on future orders to pay suppliers, which is what seems to be happening. One relays on keeping things lean and keeping a good level of liquidity the other on a consistent and unsustainable increase in the level of trade.

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    3. @ Rau: number 3 is hitting the nail on the head. There's no excuse for treating your customers bad. You want them to keep coming back and spending more money on your business. Trying to make a quick buck doesn't really work these days, which is probably why GW is turning over a new leaf and starting to appeal to vets again.

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    4. I agree about Maelstrom, but as for this bit... "There is absolutely no obligation on GW to allow a retailer to reap exponential profits on their intellectual property at the expenses of pursuing profit themselves."

      Indeed not. They can easily choose not to supply that retailer with their product. But for some strange reason, they do, and I think the answer might be MONEY. The idea that retailers who sell things for cheaper than GW- because GW's ever-increasing prices are high enough to allow them to do this while still making a profit- are bad guys, or that they're making huge profits by doing so, seems crazy to me.

      The retailers need GW, sure, but it's obvious that GW needs them too, because unfortunately for GW the free market exists and it cannot establish the complete monopoly it seems to desire. The fact that it insults them and makes their business harder while continuing to make money from them- rather than annual price rises, for example- is what convinces me that GW's practices are worse than many other companies.

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    5. Oh, also, the claim "Indeed if they did allow this, they would be bankrupt themselves and we wouldn’t have a game to play" seems ludicrous. Most companies 'allow' independent retailers to sell their products and somehow don't go bankrupt because of it. I don't go down to my corner shop and call the guy a 'piggyback retailer' because he has the audacity to sell products he didn't make. This is how the economy works, no? Games Workshop is pretty unusual in trying to control all sales of its products.

      Finally, of course, even if the only benefit of having online independent stores is the limited effect they have in restraining GW from charging whatever the hell it likes for its products- then I think most customers should be grateful to them.

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    6. Anon, the principle differnce, for me, lies in the fact that every £1 I invest in GW goes back into the Game. Ok, I could spend 80p at a discount retailer instead, but all I am doing is taking away the 20p from the sale which would be reinvested in my hobby and ensure the continual release of new models/games/system revisions which keeps the hobby alive. Yes, GW are a profit making company, but at least a proportion of that profit comes back to us as the games. Every penny of profit from a discount retailer ends up in thier pockets, or those of thier shareholders. They add nothing back to the continued development of the game.

      Don't get me wrong, I do shop at discount retailers, on ebay ect. However I do ensure a significant amount of my annual hobby budget goes through GW's doors. For me, its like movies or music. I know I can get them for cheap second hand or for free on pirate sites, but the companies/bands I do like and want to continue to produce products, I ensure I purchase the offical versions to show my support of thier products.

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    7. "Every penny of profit from a discount retailer ends up in thier pockets, or those of thier shareholders. They add nothing back to the continued development of the game."

      But the discount retailers buy their products from GW. You're still giving money to GW, you're just giving slightly less- but you'd better believe GW is still profiting and you're still supporting them. Otherwise they wouldn't sell their products to the retailers in the first place. It's definitely not comparable to piracy, because it's not free. Again, it's just a normal business transaction.

      Personally I also think independent retailers (local or online) should be supported in their own right, because unlike GW stores they sell a diverse range of games. I'd hate a world in which only GW games were available, and that seems to be what GW's gunning for by placing restrictions on online retailers.

      Then, of course, there's the fact that it's also cheaper to buy from other retailers. Everybody wins.

      Delete
  18. Great ... I was already getting a bad feeling about this.

    I ordered for a few fiends in May for around 250GBP. It arrived about 2 months later. I then ordered for 100GBP worth of Orks at the beginning of August. They have not answered my mails or picked up the phone :(

    ReplyDelete
  19. Got an order processing for more than a month :(
    Paypal claim in 3,2,1...

    ReplyDelete
  20. Fact: This summer GW then decided to go and slash the credit limits of several large UK online retailers, including Maelstrom (little google work will show this regarding other traders). With further requirements that the outstanding balance between the old and new credit limits be paid in full within 90 days. Given the size of credit Maelstrom had before, and the near unworkable size of the new limits, that balance was significant to say the least.

    Consider what would happen to any company under similar circumstances? Not just talking wargames, but any industry where their biggest supplier does the above to them?


    Fact: Internet retailers don't need a credit limit because they get paid upfront, unlike bricks n mortar retailers who have shops full of stock.

    So Fact: There is lots of rubbish being talked on this and other Forums about GW, Battlefront, HMRC, VAT Man all having responsibility for the demise of Maelstrom.

    So Fact: When you are in business you look at the risks like calling out Battlefront (bad move) doing stuff you know your biggest supplier will not like and building your business on it (the economics of multiple eggs one basket syndrome) and not paying your bills (terminal)

    Look at it any way you like, if Maelstrom fails its nobody's fault but the people that own the company.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Oh and I forgot to mention to mention one further fact. People make excuses and blame anyone but themselves so

    Fact: GW did not slash the credit limits as suggested but

    Fact: even if they had it hardly explains what several large UK internet retailers had done with the money they'd already received from punters.

    Fact: Not a fan boy? Not muchly :)

    ReplyDelete
  22. This blog is a SH-I-T HOLE .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And you sir are an insufferable troll who need not be here.
      Be gone heretic!

      Delete
  23. Totalwargamer.co.uk <3

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I used Maelstrom for 1 reason and 1 reason alone, FREE SHIPPING. I live outside the UK and the free shipping made Maelstrom the cheapest webstore on the net for me.
      When doing the maths Maelstrom was always about £2-4 cheaper for the exact same thing compared to other retailers.
      They only had 10-15% discount but it was still cheaper than 20-25% off +PP.
      Sure it depends on the size of your order, I live on a shitty little isle between the ass cheeks of Sweden and Finland called The Aland Islands. For some reason we are not part of EMU which means you have to pay VAT for everything posted here.
      EU regulation says you should get everything sent VAT free but outside of Finland and Sweden almost no one does this as it requires extra paperwork.
      If the value of the order is less than €40 you dont have to pay the VAT, so I make lots of small orders. The VAT is 23% so if I buy something for €100 I have to pay another €23 at the post office to get my package.

      Only real option for me now is 2nd hand Ebay or waiting for a free shipping voucher from Wayland games.

      Delete
    2. Not sure if this was your comment as well on Dakka forum but interesting info from UK Trading Standards posted
      Under the Distance Selling Regulations, if you do not receive the goods you have ordered after 30 days, the contract can be considered to be automatically cancelled and you can claim a full refund (including delivery charges).
      If you cancel you may ask for a full refund (including any delivery charges). The trader must provide this refund within 30 days

      These combined leads me to believe that if you don’t receive your order and you wait another 30 days then Maelstrom have unarguably breached UK law.

      http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/780/464643.page#4928440

      Delete
    3. Sorry to go off topic, Madcowcrazy, that is way cool you live on the Aland Islands. I had spent some time just recently researching them, since so very few people have even heard of them here in the United States.

      Sorry for the topic change.

      Delete
  24. I had once wrong item sent by maelstrom which they kindly left me to keep while sending me the correct one soon after. No problems in the last months with them.
    But I do understand the rage of those who payed but don't get delivered.

    Although they and wayland have played a major in ruining our only true FLGS a year ago here where I live - a rather rural region where ordering via internet is more convenient than driving to the store - even more so, if online is not only below GW-prices but even free shipping. I'm not that sad for on my part if they went offline. Maybe then local traders could get a foothold for a FLGS again. I can afford paying the intended price but don't want to stuff it into GeeDubs greedy throat. I'd rather support my local stores wherever possible. It's the people I live with in my city...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Woah, so many mistakes...

      "one wrong item" and "played a major role" and "I for my part am not sad" should be the correct lines...

      Delete
  25. I've always been a big fan of supporting my FLGS. ordering online may be cheaper but tends to slowly strangle the hobby as it limits drasticly the ability of the hobby to bring in, needed, new blood

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is a fair point, but at the same time... people also now get involved in hobbies THROUGH the internet. I can picture local clubs, organised using the internet, replacing local shops as places to play. It doesn't necessarily kill things off.

      Delete
  26. Maelstrom store page "Down for maintenance"

    ReplyDelete
  27. Taking orders they have no intention of fulfilling, knowing they're going bust? I'll just leave this here...

    http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report-a-fraud-including-online-crime

    ReplyDelete
  28. The only people that are to blame for this is Maelstrom. He owes so much money to his suppliers that they finally had enough and cut him off. How long can these suppliers be expected to keep supplying him without a knock on effect to their own business and their other customers. I feel sorry for all the people that have paid their money but have had no goods in return. Stop blaming GW and his other suppliers for his mess!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  29. Slightly off-topic, - does anyone know a consistently good online retailer in UK? I specifically mean someone who has items in stock when they say in stock and ship quickly.

    I've had awful, time consuming experiences with Total Wargamer and Wayland and always ended up using GW direct. Don't want to get my fingers burned again but still grudge paying so much...

    ReplyDelete
  30. Many companies now adays, ie smaller ones avioid having too much stock on hand, especially GW.
    Low margin dead stock will kill a small business and with all, the crazy discounting out there from the loss leaders, this trend will,continue .
    At least Maelstrom have paid the price for their bully boy tactics and their holier than though attitude, thinking they were bigger than there own suppliers and they and only they had a divine right to sell any wargames products in this country.

    Awful attitude, awful mindset, good riddance

    ReplyDelete
  31. There's a terrain company called Fat Spider that's just started selling minis, I've had loads of bases from them and delivery is really quick, last order I placed was 3pm and they dropped through the letterbox the next morning.
    Not used them for minis yet as they've not got anything that interests me but they might be worth a look.

    Ben

    ReplyDelete
  32. OFFICIAL NOTICE

    Maelstrom Games Ltd. has ceased trading and will enter liquidation at some point over the next few months.

    https://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/

    ReplyDelete
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