Going a step further in this series of articles, I wanted to post up a couple of quick lists that are created in the way that I go about designing a mech heavy army.


Links incase you have not yet read what we are doing here.
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-strength-of-armour-in-6th-edition.html
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-strength-of-armour-in-6th-part-2.html

I am going to start off with Blood Angels. This list was taken from the Voice who commented on the last post his theoretical list following my build style for heavy mech lists. This is his original list 1850pts

Libby - shield, lance, melta bomb, combi melta.
5 ass, plasma - razor - assault cannon (or twin plas/las)
5 ass, plasma - razor - assault cannon (or twin plas/las)
5 ass, plasma - razor - assault cannon (or twin plas/las)
5 ass, plasma - razor - assault cannon (or twin plas/las)
5 ass, plasma - razor - assault cannon (or twin plas/las)
5 ass, plasma - razor - assault cannon (or twin plas/las)
Bastion - quad
Baal, heavy bolters
Baal, heavy bolters
Pred, auto, heavy bolters
Pred, auto, heavy bolters
Pred, auto, heavy bolters
This is what I would do to it, to make it a heavier mech list. Remember please, that before I would even play this list, there is some work to do. I am not trying to produce net lists for people to play. Instead I am trying to give someone thats interested a starting place for their list design.

Librarian, shield and lance
5 Ass, Plasma- Razorback twin plas/las
5 Ass, Plasma- Razorback twin plas/las
5 Ass, Plasma- Razorback twin plas/las
Baal (no upgrades)
Baal (no upgrades)
Pred autocannon, heavy bolters
Pred autocannon, heavy bolters
Stormraven twin melta, twin las

Company Com. plasma x1, Chimera Hull HF
Platoon Command Grenade Lx1, Chimera Hull HF
Infantry Plat. Grenade Lx1, Chimera Hull HF
Infantry Plat. Grenade Lx1, Chimera Hull HF
Vendetta
1849pts

My problems with this list currently is that right off, it feels a little naked. Meaning its a little light on the armour side with only 13 vehicles. (I would like to find one more). Also the company command only carrying 1 plasma is a weak spot for me, the same goes for only one Grenade launcher in the platoon command.

I do however love stormravens, and like the flyer capability of this list. The twin-linked shots from several of the vehicles adds to the flyer support, but the vendetta and stormraven can really come on the board and drop 3 flyers the round they come on.

Next I will do a Grey Knight rundown.

40 Comments:

  1. Thanks natfka great review. I think the new rules for velicles are great. In fifth there was nothing more annoying when my hammerhead gets glanced first turn and can not shoot the railguns. I agree that hull points make velicles more effective while they are alive. As a tau player however I can never bring to many velicles but the 2 to 3 up cover save makes them worth it

    ReplyDelete
  2. If I were to play someone using that spam list, I would run a necron airforce spam list, with imotekh as hq. :P

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And promptly get obliterated.

      Delete
    2. 9 flyers with beacon will kill 5 av11/turn easy, mass flyer laughs at mech like there is no tomorrow.

      Delete
  3. I think the allies add to the strength of the army, and Natfka I know you said you were shelving your GK, but I really I'd prefer Grey Knights to IG.

    Coteaz can bring even more Psybacks for backfield scoring with min Warrior squads and the GK Storm Raven has those ever useful Psyk-out missiles rather than the Bloodstrike BA missiles.

    Oh you brought Typhus? Good for you. Here take 4 Perils of the Warp wounds and die!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yea, Grey Knights are always a fantastic option for this,but I wanted to go with Blood Angels as my primary detachment, and thus would be severly limited to Inq. Henchmen units.

      if using grey knights, I prefer to use Grey Knighs as primary to really dig into and get the max out of my henchmen. Then blood angels could be used as allied detachments.

      In this list above, there is the advantage of the librarian effecting the chimeras from the IG for that 5+ first round save.

      Also the grey knight storm raven is great, and I love it, however, against heavy flyer spam, or other vehicles, the blood angel storm raven excels.

      Also remember that you can only fire two missiles a round. So while you could get two wounds on him very easily with mindstrike missiles, it would take a second round of shooting or another storm raven to instantly getting rid of him, assuming of course that all hit.

      Delete
    2. I tend to find that Mindstrike missiles are VERY situational. Sure you coudl potentially inflict damage on Typhus, but he can still LOS! the hit, and nothing happens. More importantly, S:8 AP:1 hits are always good; you can always use a pinch more anti-tank. Mindstrike missiles are just Frag missiles otherwise; not all that impressive for a one-shot missile.

      Delete
    3. what he cannot look out sir is the perils of the warp he gets hit with.

      Delete
    4. Doesn't he still have to be Hit? If he passes the LOS! he doesn't get hit, so he can't suffer a PotW.

      Delete
    5. hits have nothing to do with LOS. Wounds do. So no you cannot Look out sir a perils of the warp

      Delete
    6. more specifically. A wound would have to allocated to the model as per pg 16 and the faqs for los.

      Perils of the warp gives no permission anywhere to allocate the wound. the psyker simply takes it. perils of the warp on page 67.

      Delete
  4. Oh wow, haven't read about that army yet Anon. Tell us what in that one and how to play it. Just in case you are as shallow as I think you are, that was sarcasm.

    Bellumvinco

    ReplyDelete
  5. Natfka using double FOC its possible to do this:

    HQ:
    Librarian
    Librarian

    Troops:
    Assault Squad in Las/Plas Razorback
    Assault Squad in Las/Plas Razorback
    Assault Squad in Las/Plas Razorback
    Assault Squad in Las/Plas Razorback

    Fast Attack:
    Baal Predator
    Baal Predator
    Baal Predator
    Baal Predator
    Baal Predator
    Baal Predator

    Heavy Support:
    Predator
    Predator
    Predator
    Predator
    Predator
    Predator

    What do you think?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i think i'd kill your 20 marines and call it a day.

      Delete
    2. honestly, if you want that many predators, you'd probably be better doing tesla destructors.

      lord w/ scythe 100
      7x nightscythe w/ 5x warriors 1155
      6x a barges 540

      1795

      a bit less likely to give up first blood, more likely to cap objectives on last turn, better troop survivability.

      Delete
    3. definetly need to work on the troop allocation. IG would fit into that perfectly, but there are not just enough troop choices to survive a hard hitting army sitting across from you.

      Also I like my heavy support predators to come with with heavy bolters. It eats up some points, but really adds to the ability of the tank. Unit efficiency is not always about taking the cheapest vehicle. its about getting the most bang for your buck, and working it into a comprehensive strategy for your list.

      I do think though, that what you put down is a good start. Just needs to be refined before hitting the field.

      Delete
    4. and flyers need to be considered. The only real anti-flyer you would have are the twin-linked weaponry, and I don't think that is sufficient.

      Delete
    5. Perhaps an allied hydra with guard?

      Delete
    6. For 2000 points itd be more like:

      +++ BA Mech (2000pts) +++
      +++ 2000pt Blood Angels 5th Edition, Blood Angels 5th Edition Roster (Standard, Standard)) +++

      Selections:

      Blood Angels 5th Edition (Standard) Selections:

      + HQ + (100pts)

      * Librarian (100pts)
      Smite, The Sanguine Sword
      * Power Armour
      Bolt Pistol


      + Troops + (320pts)

      * Assault Squad (160pts)
      4x Assault Marines (72pts)
      * Razorback (60pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun (35pts)
      * Veteran Sergeant (28pts)
      Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


      * Assault Squad (160pts)
      4x Assault Marines (72pts)
      * Razorback (60pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun (35pts)
      * Veteran Sergeant (28pts)
      Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


      + Fast Attack + (300pts)

      * Baal Predator (150pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Heavy Bolters (30pts), Twin Linked Assault Cannon


      * Baal Predator (150pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Heavy Bolters (30pts), Twin Linked Assault Cannon


      + Heavy Support + (395pts)

      * Predator (105pts)
      Autocannon, Dozer Blade (5pts), Heavy Bolters (30pts)


      * Predator (105pts)
      Autocannon, Dozer Blade (5pts), Heavy Bolters (30pts)


      * Predator (185pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Lascannon (65pts), Twin Linked Lascannon (45pts)


      Blood Angels 5th Edition (Standard) Selections:

      + HQ + (100pts)

      * Librarian (100pts)
      Blood Boil, Blood Lance
      * Power Armour
      Bolt Pistol


      + Troops + (310pts)

      * Assault Squad (160pts)
      4x Assault Marines (72pts)
      * Razorback (60pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Twin Linked Assault Cannon (35pts)
      * Veteran Sergeant (28pts)
      Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


      * Assault Squad (150pts)
      4x Assault Marines (72pts), Flamer (5pts)
      * Razorback (45pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Hunter Killer Missile (10pts), Pintle Storm Bolter (10pts), Twin Linked Heavy Bolter
      * Veteran Sergeant (28pts)
      Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


      + Fast Attack + (290pts)

      * Baal Predator (145pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Flamers (25pts)


      * Baal Predator (145pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Flamers (25pts)


      + Heavy Support + (185pts)

      * Predator (185pts)
      Dozer Blade (5pts), Lascannon (65pts), Twin Linked Lascannon (45pts)

      Delete
    7. I'll look to see what I can fit into it Natfka. I don't like how useless the Predators seem to be and only act as Av13 walls with 2 Strength 7 shots.

      Delete
  6. Do a Necron vehicle run- down!

    ReplyDelete
  7. How many points is the helldrake

    ReplyDelete
  8. With all due respect Natfka, that first list just doesnt "feel" like a BA list. That said i do class my self as a "fluff" bunny and do enjoy playing priests and all jumper list, not the most competitive of styles what with the changes to over watch but still fun.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Heavily mechanized strike forces have always been part of Blood Angels fluff. While I do prefer my Blood Angels all angelic, I see no fluff reason that they can't be zooming about in tanks. The reason I run them with jump packs (supported by Scouts and Devastators) isn't because it's more fluffy; it's because it's unique to them. Many armies can run mech; no other army can run an all-foot list quite as speedily, and generally they aren't as competitive as BA's. Again though, it's not fluff that's the issue; it's what makes the codex unique.

      Delete
    2. But there isnt even a single priest??!! humbug i say!

      Delete
    3. There's no fluff to suggest that there is ALWAYS a priest in battle with a Blood Angels strike force, but yeah, I would definitely include at least 2. They're not so expensive that I wouldn't drop a tank to have 2 in there to make your Troops that much tougher. I don't think it's un-fluffy to decide to exclude them, but you are wasting some excellent potential.

      Delete
  9. BAs are Bad now.
    If you want to Run BAs use vindicators Termis+priest mephiston.... Sniper Scouts + aiges (Not Bunker) Cheap 5x Marines + rhino (Not expensive razor)

    Best go wolves

    Youre lists Auto lose VS
    Landraider Or battelwagon rushes
    Nobbikers or Twolvecalv.
    IG gunlines with russes
    Hord Heavy lists

    The only Thing you can Beat is cronair :D



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I rather agree that I like vindicators for blood angels, but disagree with your analysis on what the list would auto lose to.

      I think the only one of those that would prove to be difficult against is a solid land raider rush.

      Delete
    2. Hord or T5 Things will Give you huge Problems. With Plas you have 1 round of shooting and ap2 & Str 5-6 (not Instant Death vs T5) does so Little.
      And you wont be able to Take the assaults. If youre unlucky they will just multiassault & be tighed up in youre shooting Phase.
      Plas & AssC are Great but you cant only Take them... You Need some melee punsh and some instanddeath stuff best Str 10 in youre Army.
      Ofc you got to Play it youre Way. ;)
      Just my opinion

      Delete
    3. I find it difficult to believe that Blood Angels are bad now. I have just as much success now with my Bloodhammer list as I did before the edition cahange-over, and my double Land Raider list is stronger since everyone took a few meltas out of their lists.

      Delete
  10. That first list from the Voice needs a minor revision.

    Someone may have already pointed it out, but BA libbys can't take melta bombs.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I h8 playin armys like that rather just bum about with 2 fluffy armys

    ReplyDelete
  12. I hate to say this, but that list is about as fluffy as a chihuahua with a skin condition. I'm not arguing with its brutality, although I personally wouldn't fear a list like that, as it distinctly smacks of 'glass cannon' to me, but I really hate seeing lists that are this blatantly tournament-only. I would never bring such a list to a friendly game, and so I would never bring such a list to a tournament. Blood Angels definitely use armor, but they use it to support, and work hand-in-hand with, their infantry, of which this list has absolutely none. I'm not arguing with its effectiveness, but the mentality that created it. This is the same mentality that creates such lists as Fateweaver and 6 squads of 9 flamers of tzeentch. Of course it's competitive, but my friend who plays CD won't even use fateweaver in games anymore because he can't lose with that set up. His exact words were, "I'm tired of auto-winning." Such spam lists ruin the game, IMHO. Using mech is more than okay, and a list that is heavy mech, without downright spamming, is definitely cool in my book:
    HQ
    Libby w/ Lvl 2
    Reclusiarch

    Elites
    3 Sang P's w/ PA

    Troops
    9 AM's w/ MG, PA, Rhino
    9 AM's w/ MG, PA, Rhino
    9 AM's w/ MG, PA, Rhino
    10 Tacs w/ ML, PG, RBack w/ LasPlas
    8 DC w/ 2PA's, Rhino

    Fast Attack
    Baal w/ AssC, HF's
    Baal w/ AssC, HF's
    LS w/ TML, HF
    LS w/ TML, HF

    Heavy Support
    Stormraven w/ TML, LC
    5 Devs w/ 4ML's
    5 Devs w/ 4ML's

    Points: 2500
    Vehicles: 10
    Model Count: 69
    Number of AT shots per turn: 30
    Fluffiness Factor: Perfect 10

    Your tacs combat squad and the rback goes into hiding with 4 tacs and the sgt while taking pot-shots at whatever target presents itself. The ML and PG squad hole up as well, again shooting at whatever target presents itself. Your rhinos punch forward to close with and annihilate the enemy, supported by your baals. The LS's ride the flanks, taking pot shots and generally being annoying little bungholes to your opponent. Your stormraven comes on later and eats whatever it finds. The dev squads just shoot holes in every single armored tin can they can get their sights on. This list is downright nasty when played right, and it has a good balance of armor and infantry, while staying true to the BA fluff of speed, assault, and aggressiveness.

    I would be excited to play against such a list, and, honestly, lists that have a good balance of infantry and mech are much, much more resilient than a list that just tries to put as many vehicles on the table as possible.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I do hope that Natfka will do Grey Knights rundown next and not Codex: Grey Knights as he promised in his op. I mean, everyone knows how to take Coteaz and 12pts troops + razorback. If i remember right its 80pts for TL Psycannon / lasplas / tl las razorback.

    Coteaz: 100pts
    Troops: 12 x 12 = 144pts
    Razorbacks: 12 x 80 = 960pts
    Total of 1204pt

    For those of you who were building 2500pts lists, this already has 12 rather good fireplatforms and still has 1300points to spent!

    Or to go with the OPs 1850, it still has 646pts to go. Thats like 3x stormravens (and got 31pts for 2nd primary for HQ)

    Or if you go with 10x 3man henchmen in razorback, you can get 3 Landraiders to go with it and still got 65 points (to use for a 2nd primary for HQ)

    Coteaz is too No Brainer to be used in any example lists on web anymore..

    -Wildcard

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wildcard.
      Coteaz lists are a little far from no brainers. There are a lot of different ways to field it, and most of them do not include a straight 12 razorbacks, with base troops on board. There are just too many inherent weaknesses in that list at that point level.

      It might be a good place to start, but a not very good way to finish


      Delete
    2. Awsum :)
      My point generally originated from the fact that "Codex: Grey Knights" includes other inquisition forces. If it would be "Codex: Inquisition" including Grey Knights i would not have such negative emotions towards it :D

      And yeah, my bad: No Brainer was poor selection of words what i was after.

      Those two points clarified, let me try to rephrase what i originally meant:

      I would sincerely love to see a high armor count list at 1.8k,2k or 2.5k point limits that include only grey knights themselves (and not other inquisitorial units - nor allies)

      - Wildcard

      Delete
    3. I think coteaz only affects his detachment and he's unique (one per army) so you could only do 6x acolyte units, regardless of army size.

      Delete
    4. Its an army wide ability. So they become troops for either or primary both detachments

      Delete

 
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