32 Comments:

  1. well, I think that's the point why the Crimson Hunter is so ridiculously good at taking on enemy flyers. That's the anti-air strength of the codex.

    The reapers are an infantry based substitute. Imo if they gave more units skyfire, the crimson hunter would be too good and would lose its niche in which it excels.

    I'm torn when it comes to the Crimson Hunter, its offensive capabilities are awesome, but it won't stay long on the table, and it comes down to the questions, was it worth fielding it ?

    I have a similar feeling about the Razorwing ...

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  2. The thing about the hunter is if you go first, it's in trouble. Our meta has changed considerably between the 6th ed release and the most recent releases. It used to be that going first and getting first blood was clutch, now it's going second and taking air superiority.

    Wave serpents with t/l lasers have a decent chance of landing a hit and making their d6+1 shield shots t/l. The nice thing is also that evade is declared after a hit, not a pen, so you can hit with the scatter lasers and if they jink, the shield shots ignore cover.

    A list with 2 crimson hunters, 1 hemlock, and allied razorwing would be interesting. The razorwing packs enough anti-infantry to cause 25% to most units and shadowing a hemlock, a great chance to get models running.

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    1. Why? You can use an Autarch to delay them?

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    2. He's +/-1 right? So even if you roll a 4+, you're still coming on turn 2. Plus, the more you tailor your list to do one trick, the further you fall from TAC potential IMO. Bringing an autarch is an improvement, but far from guaranteed delay.

      The Baron is probably the most synergistic, giving +1 to the first turn roll, so you have a better chance of choosing to go second. Plus, his stealth and grenade launcher are great for some eldar units.

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  3. I think I'm still going to be taking the ADL with a las cannon and an exarch with fast shot. I think Dragons are a little cheaper than the Reapers but the Reapers will still be able to hit targets at range while the lascannon is firing and, with an upgrade to starshot missiles, be able to take down vehicles when there are no flyers left.

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    1. 3++ did an article on quad vs icarus with mathammer charts and the quad gun highly outperforms the icarus against a mojority of flyers in most scenarios.

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    2. I like the quad gun but almost every army I play against has a land raider or monolith, so I prefer the fast shot lascannon at bs 5. I agree that the quad gun rocks though. Did they take fast shot into account?

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    3. No I believe it was pre-eldar. If a reaper exarch can have wargear that ignores cover (rangefinder?) and use it with fast shot on the icarus at the same time at bs5, well that's as good as having another crimson hunter.

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    4. Also, with the reaper rangefinder, exarch ignored jink.

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  4. While I agree with everything you've said so far, Natfka, I am happy with where the Eldar codex is in terms of air control.

    **disclaimer** This is gonna be a little bit of complaining so be warned **disclaimer**

    I am a Dark Angels player, as well as a Dark Eldar player, and the air control for the Dark Angels, outside of flakk attacks, is nil. While we have flyers to contend with other flyers they are vastly over costed or just underwhelming in performance. On the other hand we have a number of battle brothers to help with that, but it's not alot of help.

    Now in regards to Eldar and Dark Eldar and where they stand, I like that they have one or two choices to handle flyers, I think it helps keep balance. Thoug the major offender, when it comes to balance, is Tau, since they have a vast number of possibilities for anti-air.

    TL;DR: I think having one or two choices in each Codex is a great way to keep balance.

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    1. I came here to say "What about DA".

      They have it much worse - luckily we have FW and can get Mortis and Mortis contemptor dreads.

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    2. Well, the thing about Dark Angels is that while their anti-air may be sub-par they do have 4++ Power Field saves they can blanket around the army.

      Rather than investing points into combating air just focus on dominating the ground and shielding your force against threats both high and low.

      True, it's not as easy to incorporate now since the FAQ prevented being in transports and "broadcasting" the field from the hull. A Techmarine on a bike for T5 2+/4++ save is pretty durable though, especially if out of LOS behind a vehicle.

      An Azrael I.G. blob can occupy large tracts of table space making it difficult to place flyers and with a 4++ powerfield pretty resistant to Hellchickens.

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  5. War Walkers have flakk missiles i just get three of those and im good.

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    1. It costs 330 points for a squad of 3 war walkers with flakk, versus 210 for a squad with scatter lasers... Using them for anti air is a huge point sink.

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    2. Ya you do have a point but i can still use them for anti tank and anti infantry on the side but if they do get destroyed then it is all over

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  6. I'm no math whiz, but I believe prescience/guide on a scatter+lance war walker unit will drop av11/10 flyers. Same for a big warp spider unit. Eldar probably have the third best anti-air behind necrons and tau.

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    1. Youre forgetting IG (Vendettas, Hyrdas) which are the best at taking down opposing flyers.

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    2. But hydras have to snap-fire at ground targets, making them garbage. Vendettas are good no doubt, but just one viable option.

      Necrons have the ability to field the most non-squadron flyers and annihilation barge prolly hits flyers 3-6 times per volley.

      Tau have skyrays, riptides, broadsides, etc. Even more brutal with allied prescience and multiple applications opposed to an IG hydra.

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    3. The WW set-up is what I'm going with for now. I "may" put in a flyer, but I'm putting my faith into same equipped WraithLords and Spiders.

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    4. You're absolutely right about scatter laser equipped war walkers. I ran some #'s on them yesterday and with guide/prescience, they are quite capable of taking on flyers.

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    5. Yeah I was running WW as allies to my DE last year. I'm glad the unit survived the new book and got battle focus and the 5++ out of it.

      With DE as primary (Naftka plays them too eh?) you could have:
      Farseer
      Crimson Hunter
      Razorwing x3
      War Walkers x3 scatter lasers/lances
      ADL/Quad Gun

      As a core to fill in your scoring units. Razorwings with disintegrators, splinter cannon, and missiles can put serious hurt on infantry. Hunter, walkers, and quad gun are decent AA as well as AT. It leaves you around 800/1000 more points for troops and specialists.

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  7. You could use the Forgeworld AA tank?

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  8. Reapers are far from AA as only the exarch can take flakk and only the reaper exarch and war walkers can even take flakk. That's 25 points per launcher when all your other weapons cost 5 points. Flakk is not cost effective anyway.

    Your best AA is your farseer powers. You can easily TL anything with guide or prescience. Doom however is where it's at. Cast doom on a flyer and everything in your army can reroll Armor Penetration. That's a 66.67% improvement for S7 fire. That gives the quadgun a 70.6% chance to destroy a heldrake, a single wave serpent with a scatter laser would have similar results (or even better if you roll high enough). The downside is that with two farseers you only get doom 75% of the time (83.33% with Eldrad) and that doom wont help with interceptor fire.

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    Replies
    1. What I said about the wave serpent was totally wrong. Left out hard to hit. It's probably closer 17-18% for the wave serpent to destroy a heldrake.

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  9. Eldar DO struggle with anti-air capacity IMO. Even when looking at expanded Forge World units, the only way to get an Eldar unit with Interceptor is the Fire Storm falcon turret. Now 6 S6 Twin-Linked shots sounds nice, but it's still fairly impractical at 180 points. And S6 has some serious problems with heavier armoured flyers.

    I truly wish, rather then giving them super-krak rockets, the Reapers were allowed to buy Flakk rockets for the whole squad. I think that was a significant missed opportunity.

    As it is, a squad of Guardians camping on a Quad-gun aegis line is basically your best option for air. Perhaps a Bastion if you want to not be blocked by terrain. I can see putting the up-gunned Reapers in the main body of the building to hammer targets from inside, if you like playing with Bastions. I know some people see them (rightly so in some cases) as useless death traps.

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  10. If only they put the firestorm in the codex.....

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  11. The scatter laser/shruikannon/serpent shield wave serpent seems to like to crap on flyers with high-volume mid-strength twin-linked shooting.

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  12. Kelly didn't want to make something to hurt his precious hell turkey!

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  13. Hello. If you don`t want to pay big bucks for AA (War Walkers) or have only one (2 with fast shot) desperate attacks from Dark Reapers, we might consider Wave Serpent as a AA unit. Armed with twin linked scatter laser and shuriken cannon.

    If 2linked scatter laser hits (not wound just hits) flyer (and you have good chance with that beacuse of twin linked) all other wave serpent attacks are twin linked. Including shield shots, which ignores cover so evasion is useless for flyer.Shield shot beeing Str 7 is as good as flakk missile strength

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    1. Yep, TL scatter lasers pretty much guarantees a hit, and then another 4-5 S7 ignore cover TL shots should put a couple more hits (along with the TL shuriken cannon possible hits). So you are looking at a potential 3+ hits at S6 and S7 from a dedicated troop transport. Multiply that times about 3-4 since alot of 2000 point armies will have that many. Who needs flakk or an ADL?

      Nope, no power creep here LOL!

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  14. Sorry if it is a little off-topic, but does anyone else think it cool if FW done an upgrade kitand rules for the Crimson Hunter Phoenix Lord!

    THAT will be awesome...

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