This week seemed very busy on the site with lots of new rumors, Apocalypse information, and more. However on my own front, it was business as usual, getting down to how to integrate my Eldar into a Dark Eldar force. Solutions have found.


I love the above pic. Its just fantastic and flows into some of the lists I have been working on.

Dark Eldar with Eldar Allies
I have been trying to find the perfect combination of ways to add eldar into a dark eldar list. I think I have narrowed it down quite a bit, on exactly how that will work for me. (after many trials and tribulations).

First off, I love raiders, so my list will have to include them in a significant number. Second, I love splinter cannons. So a list of mine would have to include a lot of both of these. With that being said, what can I do that will add to my list to strengthen it.

Wraightguard. I thought they would be a perfect fit from the get go, but exactly how to field them has been tested out several times now. I have tried the Wraightblades, tried Wraithcannons, and have settled on the devastatingly dangerous D-Scythe.

The D-Scythe Wraithguard in a Waveserpent is dangerous, when they go off, they can rip apart almost anything they get ahold of. One squad of D-scythes last night insta killed a Daemon Prince that was unfortunate enough to get grounded in front of them.

So yes, there you have it, the direction I am going with my Dark Eldar. Time to get modelling.

Apocalypse and Codex Supplements
Apocalypse is now up for pre-orders, and it is a very nice supplement release, and with Farsight later in the month, I am really enjoying how Games Workshop is keeping up on the releases. The game is really full of excitement and fun with so much going on at any given time.

It comes down to one of those things, that because so much is going on, I am always dying to learn just a little bit more on what exactly the next release is going to be.

The book order looks like: Apocalypse, Farsight, Space Marines, White Scars, (yet unnamed Space Marine Supplement probably Ultramarines), and then next year with Tyranids. A lot of fun.

Are Waveserpents the answer to Eldar anti-air? 
Just something I have thinking of. The Wave Serpent can get a ton of shots, and if they are twin-linked like they often get to be, they put out a tremendous number of twin-linkage. Even with 6's to hit, I was able to get my scatter lasers to hit (4 shots twin linked and  with laser lock, making everything else twin linked) and provide 7 hits against a Helldrake in a recent game. Lucky for me it was from the rear of the vehicle, but I was able to down it quickly. (which never happens to me facing these beasts).

So is the Waveserpent the Eldar/ Dark Eldar answer to flyers? Its looking so.

43 Comments:

  1. Do you plan on grabbing a Farseer for your Eldar HQ? Or Spiritseer to make the Wraithguard troops? Or Autarch like you've mentioned on youtube?

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    1. With Dark Eldar as your primary detachment, I like the spiritseer to make Wraithguard troops. In larger games I would add in an Iyanden Autarch as second HQ for a secondary allied detachment.

      At least that is my current thinking on it.

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    2. Nice, and the great thing about Spiritseers if you're running Iyanden allies is being able to take up to 5

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    3. you can't overlook the awesomeness of combing shadowfield with the farseer's fortune power, its unreliable because you have to roll for powers now but a farseer on a bike with the helm of the laughing god following your archon's raider makes him nigh unkillable

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  2. Wave serpent. Ran out my Eldar today at 1850pt against orks. His two dakkajets inflicted a single glance on a wave serpent, before one was taken out by my own flyer and the other was killed by two wave serpents (both dakkajets crashed on big mobs of boyz).

    I'd say that wave serpents are at least a good fallback for AA needs. With T/L Scatterlasers you have to get one six on the 8 rolls for the scatterlasers to twin link your serpent shield and shuriken cannon, and that "ignores cover" for the shield is big too.

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    1. even though the "ignores cover" doesn't work vs the flyers :)

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    2. Jink save is still a cover save.

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    3. It works just fine, Vehicles take cover saves "exactly like a non vehicle model would do against a wound".

      Thusly, ignores cover prevents vehicles from using cover saves, because it prevents non vehicle models from using cover saves against a wound.

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    4. Ignore cover rule: cover saves can not be taken for wounds ... .

      Vehicles don't take wounds, they take hits...

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    5. Wait does the shield roll to hit? Otherwise I don't think it can hit a flyer anyways.

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    6. If you deactivate the shields, it works just like a standard gun with d6+1 shots.

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    7. @Shadowcl4w: and they can only save against those hits the way other models save against wounds, for the purpose of taking saves, you treat the hits as wounds.

      @JayDee: Yes the shield has a normal shooting profile, and rolls to hit as normal (note the references to twin-linking the shield shots)

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    8. @Drunkspleen: well, that's a nice explanation of how you play it. But there's no evidence in the ruleback that backs up your interpretation.

      The cover saves explanation in the ruleback stays clear of things like "hits" and "wounds". I know what you mean and it seems logical, but warhammer ain't logical. And I don't think there is much room for interpretation.

      I agree with you that vehicles shouldn't receive a cover save vs "ignore cover" hits, but that's not how it is written. They should have put like this: Ignore Cover: Cover saves can not be taken against models or weapons with this rule.

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    9. Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree since I feel the evidence I have already presented, the quote from page 75, is sufficient.

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    10. well, the quote on page 75 only describes when you have to take a cover saves, and that it is in the same situation as non-vehicle models. That does not make wounds = hits. Nor anything similiar.

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    11. not this again..Why has this rule suddenly been dredged up now that tau have ignores cover with markerlights. Nobody ever mentioned it when they rolled for it on divination. Of course it can be used against vehicles. Its bloody stupid if it cant and vehicle cover saves say "exactly like a non vehicle model would do against a wound"....

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    12. I've never heard of anyone interpreting the rule this way. Things that ignore cover saves, also ignore jink saves. Jink saves are just cover saves.

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    13. Flyers "evade" anyway, yes? Snap shot that round for the evade save if I remember correctly. Is evade a cover save? I'm not sure it is..

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    14. Evading is what gives you jink - which is a cover save.

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    15. Eeeeh, you don't get 8 shots with a twin-linked scatter laser; you get four and reroll the misses. Rolling eight dice "to save time" gets really gammy when some shots have special effects and others don't, opening up a can of worms where people take advantage of picking favourable shots from the pile and confusion over coloured dice.

      I'd also point out that putting scatter lasers on a Wave Serpent for the sake of twin-linking doesn't work as the weapons in a Serpent turret are already twin-linked and you lose the Laser Lock advantage unless you're firing the shuriken hull-weapon also.

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    16. Er... I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. There is every reason to get a scatter laser on the wave serpent - laser lock twin-links every OTHER weapon on the model if the laser lock weapon hits. The laser lock weapon itself is not twin linked normally - but is when it is in the turret of the wave serpent, hence giving you better odds to get at least one hit which in turn twin-links the shuriken cannon and serpent shield.

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    17. Mauler: I don't know anyone who rolls all 8 dice together - what a strange concept. The worse case scenario is rolling 8 dice in total (ie if all 4 miss on the first rolls). Statistically, to calculate the odds of failing to get laser lock when snapfiring at an aircraft you calculate the chance of failing (BS1 snapfire) all 4 rolls and then all 4 rerolls, ie 8 rolls in total (there's about a one in 4 chance of failing to hit at least once and thus failing to laser lock).

      Also, your paragraph on scatterlaser turrets on wave serpents doesn't make a lot of sense. The twin-linked scatterlaser is BETTER at laser locking than a single scatterlaser (at BS4 there's only something like a one in 6500 chance of failing to get at least a single hit compared to one in 81 for a single scatterlaser), and can help shooting not only with the shuricannon, but more importantly the serpent shield.

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    18. Mike: That's what I said in my second paragraph? I was probably a bit frazzled this morning, the impression that I got - from Barry's "eight hits" comment also - was that some people were taking scatter lasers to twin-link the scatters 'twice' and roll more than the stated four dice + single re-roll per miss. I think we're on the same page though. lol

      Barry: I do. I've heard people say that "re-rolling misses on a TL weapon takes too long" so they just roll the "re-roll" dice at the same time, doubling up their shots. As I said to Mike, I think I got the wrong end of the power maul here and we're on the same page - my last paragraph should make more sense in that context as the scatter lasers don't twinlink up twice.

      Carry on! :D

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    19. IF i ever roll the Twin-Link at the same time I make sure to have my dice in differnt colored pairs.
      That is the only way to propperly do TLing in one go. Any other way you can potentially get Two hits from one dice.

      Also how freaking hard is it to re-roll :P Some people use any excuse to cheat, eh?

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  3. @Natfka: "I am really enjoying how Games Workshop is keeping up on the releases. The game is really full of excitement and fun with so much going on at any given time."
    Well, i don't mean to ruin the fun, but I would enjoy if actually I had ANY money to buy BUT one release, but my budget ran out with some cheap Tau units, their dex and one rhino I wanted for my space marine army. I'd really enjoy if I could buy at least the best releases for my three armies. Got Tau, IG, and Ultramarines. According to the info and with actual prices, before the year ends I am going to spend:
    About 40€ in every Codex
    At least 150€ in every army If I just want "the big model" and a flyer and some other cool thing, nothing GREAT, of course.
    Of course i will need some "speshul cards" to use my psykers in game, and of course I will be using some paint and glue.
    And If my ultraarines are not the "codex guys" (something REALLY stupid) I will have to buy a supplement that it will not even be written in my own language (spanish. As you see I can understand english, but you don't know the hell that happens when a gun, a piece of equipment or a special rule have TWO entries with different translations.

    SO: do you say that I'm going to have "fun" spending about 600€ (780$) to just "keep to date" my armies and of course forgetting about apocalypse, any new army, any Forge World model, any new exciting expansion, any terrain or fortifications...
    Yes, I am enjoying the hobby A LOT as it is right now.

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    1. People had the same issue with the latest release of the biggest MMO in the world currently: World of Warcraft. The game offered so much per individual character that people complained they couldn't do EVERYTHING on 2,3,4 up to 8 different characters.

      Blizzards reply: You're not meant to be able to do everything on multiple characters a month after release, if you could, there is no longevity to the game.

      Maybe if your budget cannot keep up with maintaining 3 armies, buying the larger more expensive (and rules wise, very weak) new models. Then you shouldn't buy them all at release, but instead pick a favourite army, get what you want for that and then over the next year or even two slowly buy what you want for the others.

      The only thing you have to buy to keep up to date is the new Codex and lets face it, while they are not cheap, mine is $100NZ. That really is only 20 Cafe Coffees. Or a single meal at a restaurant. Less than the price of a concert ticket. About the average amount I would have to spend at a bar to get intoxicated enough to stagger home.

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    2. Let's translate to money here in Spain:
      The price of a meal in a cheap daily menu restaurant is about 10-12 euros. With 12 euros you can buy one scout marine biker. To buy one codex (40 euros) I need to keep from drinking 50 coffes (0,80 euros average) and last time I went to see The Cure it only costed me 20 euros. If I want to use the same amount of money (20) in my hobby... what can I obtain? well, for example, an space marine librarían... ONE single mini. One Tau Commander will cost me three days without eating at my job. The Apocalypse book would mean about 10 times without going to theater to see a movie (or five times if I go with my wife). So, considering my life would be really sad without this money I MUST forget about news, and perhaps I must forget about upgrading even ONE of my armies. I bought the Tau codex, and really loved the broadsides and the new flyers, and got really fond of the XV104... but I bought a box of pathfinders... at least I had 10 models for two meals. What I mean is that, BEFORE that crazyness, the hobby was something aside my life, something that didn't really needed to care about the Price, something I really did whenever I wanted. Something new appeared, and if I liked it, I had it, if I don't, even I could think about owning it anyway as it could be considered as a compulsive buy. But now, even working in a late night time in a broadcast television, even earning more than three times my country's average salary... I can't afford to buy even the mínimum for my three armies. Think about it, if I began a third army, it was because, ten years ago, it was something really affordable (and even combining this with videogames, a star wars vintage action figure collection and even 400 lord of the rings minis and about 9 cities of death buildings, fortifications, lots of forgeworld models and a realm of battle gameboard). Now the hobbit and wh40k must wait... perhaps forever. As I have seen around here, perhaps I will stay in 6th. Simply because now it is not worth.

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    3. If it helps, mate, you're comparing the value of a model (or box of) or a book against the cost of things that you use just once and IMO this is an innacurate way to view it.

      I justify the value of something by taking it's cost, weigh it against how 'special' that thing is to me and consider how often it will be used.

      For example:

      A steak is £10.
      Tau codex £40.

      You go to a restaurant one night and have a steak. It's a good steak, so for £10 it has good value even though a burger is half the price.
      You buy the Tau codex and play a game. You need the codex to build a force and refer to for unit stats so legally it's an unavoidable cost. This one game cost you £40 as you had to buy the book.

      The next week you go to your usual face-stuffing place and enjoy another good steak. That's the usual £10 and you don't mind the spend: it's steak! A few days later you go and get in another game of 40k with your Tau. You already have the Tau codex so you've spent nothing extra but if you want to define how much the book has cost you it's now cost you £40 / 2 games = £20 per game.

      The next month you get another two steaks in. £10 each. Followed by another two games of 40k with your Tau force. In cost vs occurance the meat & codex have broken even; you've had four steaks costing you £40 in total and you've bought a £40 book used four times in total.

      Four events with a £40 total cost for each. Here's the thing: the following month you have four more steaks and get in one game with your Tau per week.
      Your eight steaks have now cost you £80 in total with an average value of £10 per steak: £80 / 8 = £10 per event.

      Your eight Tau battles have cost you £40 in total with an average value of £5 per game: £40 / 8 = £5 per event.

      The more games you play, the more value the codex has. After two months it has cost you half of what you've spent on steak, over four months it'll be a quarter with the codex costing you £2.50 per game instead of £5 (£40 / 16 = £2.50) while the steak still costs you four times as much at £10 a go.

      Yes, Games Workshop are still more expensive than a lot of things and are more expensive than they used to be. But as with any luxury purchase it becomes better value when you use it more. Most of us concentrate on one army at a time otherwise you are effectively multiplying the expense by the amount of armies you have. Inflation and a recession are nasty :(

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    4. Honestly if you have to sacrefice your food (read: important to survive) in order to buy Warhammer (Read: Something you don't need, a hobby you do for fun) then you really can't afford playing warhammer.
      Warhammer is not a human right, it is a hobby that has always been expensive.(But yeah it's beccoming more expensive)

      But honestly, if you earn 3 times the national average, and you have to skimp on food to affrod your hobby there has to be something else in your life that cost you way more than you should.

      I also wonder when you define "the crazyness" as having started. Because in the last few years all I can say that has gotten more expensive are codices, but they are now of much better quality. Models go up gradually in price, and some kits are not cheap, but then again inflation is also to blame here.

      But in the end no one is forcing you to play 40k. If you cant afford it don't buy it. Personally I have put a damper on my spending due to having less spare income, instead I focus on painting what I already have.

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    5. To be fair, I remember when the Rogue Trader rulebook was £25, Space Hulk was £30, a metal three Marine or two Terminator blister was £3, a box of 30 Marines was £10 and White Dwarf was £1.50 :'(

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    6. Of course I don't skimp on food to buy warhammer, but I should get rid of A LOT of other things that satisfy me most. That's why I say i didn't buy the riptide, nor the broadside, nor will buy the "supplement" for tau, nor the apoc bundle nor nothing. When dark eldar appeared I really was thinking about beginning a fourth army, i really liked them... GW has lost a good buyer, just in my case. An old buyer that could have given them at least 30-40 euros a month, but before the crazyness I could spent 30 euros and get back home with a good vehicle to build and enjoy... now I return with ONE finecast mini.

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    7. SO as the product i obtain for the same Price is far inferior from what I obtained before, I consider that right now it is NOT worth.

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    8. Not meaning to poke you with a stick here mate, but:

      Finecast are a better product than the older metal models. Loads more detail, easier to soften and bend, far less weight and if you have a problem with one then GW replace it right away for free.

      Finecast models on the Spanish GW site are 21eur and below for most singles and ~35eur for a full squad. In fact, looking at the Dark Eldar, only the Heavy Support section are significantly more than 30eur a piece, the rest is fairly cheap. How expensive is your local shop? :/

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    9. Additionally - if it helps - Darksphere are decent and for 101eur you can have a Spanish DE codex, a Haemonculus, a box of Wyches, a box of Warriors & a Ravager giving you a legal force with transport. I don't know much about DE specifically so I suspect that I'm getting Ravagers & Raiders mixed up but that may be an option if local shops and GW are a bit steep?

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    10. Thx for the info, never been to Darksphere. Anyway I still think that one 1inch tall mini done in finecast is not worth 21eur. And what about plastc models? which is the excuse for the Cadre Fireblade to cost 15 eur? Better sculpt? So then what's the excuse for the ridiculous looking head for the eldar guardians remaining the same for twenty years? exactly as the bulky crisis suits, or the old Aun'va 2d sculpt, or the vespids... so have they done ANY resculpt for example to Tau codex to justify higher prices? Not everything has become "higher quality" in GW... better books, better models, high resin, full color... it is not true in most cases: see minis photographed in new codexes, if you exclude the "super new" ones, most of them are 15 years old. What's the excuse for the new baneblade cost 20 eur more tan the one we had two months ago??

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    11. I've got no answers for you there, mate! All I'll say is that assembling & painting models is a luxury activity and is priced accordingly. It's not just GW, I mean look at the Tamiya 1/35th millitary models: roughly 40k scale, roughly just as expensive. The 1/25th scale stuff is twice as much!

      But yeah. Unless you buy second-hand there's not really much you can do to off-set the cost. Luxury hobby = luxury prices. :( I hope you find a way to make it work.

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  4. Not sure if anyone else had noticed this yet, but the Eldar Codex pretty much confirms there will be an Aliatoc supplement.

    Assuming I haven't missed anything, Illic Nightspear's secial rule specifically mentions "Aliatoc Pathfinders" being able to arrive from outflank beside him, despite them not actually being present in the Codex.

    Pretty excited :D

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    1. Im pretty sure thats a reference to the rangers that you can pay 13 points for to upgrade to pathfinders.

      That being said though, I am certain that we will be getting a Alaitoc codex suplement, though other than making pathfinders, I am not sure what else they would put in an Alaitoc codex. My only real exposure to them was the novels.

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    2. I thought the same thing Felix. It just seems logical from the way the Alaitoc were given pathfinders.

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    3. @Thors Hammer

      I picked up the book like 5 days ago, and I've been hard pressed to read through it due to time so if you could point me to where in the new codex the upgrade is located it'd be appreciated.

      So far as I've seen though, there's not way to upgrade rangers to pathfinders (they don't even have a statline in the reference) and the only mention of them specifically calls them "Alaitoc Pathfinders" in Illic's special rule.

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  5. In our test games I have found the Serpent and Spiders to get the job done with AA.

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    1. Spiders for AA??!! Tell me more!!

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    2. Yup, spamming str7 shots, brings fliers down.
      A full spider squad with exarch deals 3,5 hits on average. With their manoeuvrability they easily get access to rear armor.
      I once caused 2 glances and 2 pens against a helldrake with one of them being ap1.. The bastard saved three of them though.. :(

      WarpSpiders are just too good to be true and that makes me happy :D

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