A lot of shock and if you have not read the books (and even if you did), most of us are sitting around wanting to discuss this in more than one way.

So lets talk Game of Thrones for a minute. 
Disclaimer: Spoiler alert
(Do not read below if you have not seen episode 9 of season 3)
No I have not read the books, and yes, Duane, you did warn me and my wife at Valhalla not to get too attached to characters. I still had no clue, and figured some other character that was more isolated like Jon Snow or someone more obvious that would be killed or maimed. 

I think my wife was a little pissed, and in shock. We literally both just sat there staring at the blank screen afterwards.

A note on the acting...... very well done. The scene was dramatic and just jaw dropping. 

I have bought my wife the books, and plan on reading through them later this year after this season ends (at least the first 3 books). I think after this last episode, she will be reading through all the books so she is not so crushed.

Its not often in a series like this, that an entire storyline is just obliterated so abruptly. I am looking forward to the season finale, and seeing where things can carry on from here. 

Please keep the discussion about the HBO series, and not spoil anything past what we already know (for those that read the books)

69 Comments:

  1. I highly recommend the audiobooks for the series. The guy that voices it has the world record for number of unique voices.

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    1. Roy Detrice. He is a master storyteller, he also appears as Portland pyromancer Hallyne on season 2. I have listened to the series three times on Audiobooks.

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  2. Dear people,

    Do you get this upset about the daily news? If not, get over the fiction!

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    1. I think it is not so simple. The audience of GoT has become so emotionally vested in this show that if any of their beloved characters die (or get murdered) this reaction is bound to happen.

      Furthermore, I would argue that while people do not express their discontent with the daily news, or show necessarily any connection to it, I believe that their reaction is in part driven by the happenings of our world. Thus, subconsciously, people are expressing their shock through GoT, it becomes a mimesis of their soul. Like it has become an outpouring of their anger of what happens in reality. Think about it, if people were not impacted by reality, then why are they overwhelmingly reacting this manner?

      So, while I try to respect your opinion, I must respectfully point out that it rather neglects to take into account the deeper levels of emotions and awareness expressed by these reactions.

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    2. I still find it both shallow and sickening, because its a piece of fiction, no that unborn child was not murdered people.

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    3. To be fair, you're on a social media site complaining about people who are complaining on a social media site.

      I hope you're comfy :P

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    5. If I hear about someone that I look up to or care about in the daily news, like a celebrity or similar, then yeah I might actually care the same.
      Keep in mind people care that Robb Stark and his family died, not the 100 soldiers in the yard.
      Same is the emotions on the daily news.

      So you argument is not valid at all.

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    6. haha what BS!

      my argument is that the fact they care about someone who didn't die, more than someone who did is frakking disgusting.

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  3. By the way, just to clarify. Roose Bolton did what he did for more than just political gain. The Starks and Boltons were enemies and arch rivals, until the Starks defeated the Boltons and made them swear fealty. Now, while I think one ought to keep his or her word, I also understand Bolton's decision to "betray" Robb. In fact, I think old Frey was played the dupe.

    Anyway, this is just the beginning of the story. It will only get better from here.

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    1. Amen!

      Jeoffry's wedding and its fallout is some of the best parts of the whole series.

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    2. I guess they'll do it next season, I was hoping Joffrey's would be in the same episode. I doubt they will put it in E10 lol

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    3. Yeah, book 3 was split into Season 3 and 4. Hopefully, we will have the next book soon! Come on GRRM, you said you were nearly done 2 years ago! UGH! lol

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  4. Its really hard to talk about the ramifications of Ep 9 because the season is not over. What's the saying, its always the darkest just before the dawn?

    I will say one thing (Ive read all the books) George R. R. Martin is trying as hard as he can to shake up a staid genre as much as possible and is probably laughing at all of his readers. His two biggest issues are that he doesn't introduce enough new characters to replace the old and those he does do not emotionally engage you very much. I mean Brianna is not very likable now is she?

    The second issue is that I don't think he knows how to end it, at least in the traditional story book fashion of bringing the story arcs together and tying it up.

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    1. Book four introduce a lot fo new characters though.

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    2. Its hard to like a character that is hard, cold and unemotional. She doesn't open up. I am sure he has an idea of where he wants to the endings to meet. Right now, enjoy the travels.

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  5. I was shocked when I read the books too but by then I was aware that Martin is not attached to any character beside Jon Snow (Have you guessed who his parents are?) and the Mother of Dragons. Because they will sing a Song of Ice and Fire.

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    1. SPOILER ALERT











      I hope his mom is Tagerian high born. Blood of both realms in his veins, Fire and Ice.

      That or Danress is his highborn cousin/sister...

      Can't wait to find out.

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    2. SPOILER

      You know, George R.R. Martin went to some pretty long lengths to tell the readers just how much Rhaegar Targeryen loved Lyanna Stark... *cough* *cough*

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    3. What about Brann? To me he seem to have more of a plot shield than Jon Snow. But yes I too think Jon and Dany are the "mainest main characters".

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  6. One God!
    One Realm!
    one King!

    Long live Stannis!

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    1. For the night is dark and full of terrors

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  7. Why isn't George RR Martin on Twitter?
    Because he killed all 140 characters.

    Red wedding was awesome sauce.

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  8. Jon Snow could become undead yet. Thats if he is actually dead at all.

    I think Martin likes the Imp as well. He just seems to keep on going like a long life battery.

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  9. One thing about the current season... The red wedding is chapter 51/80 (or thereabout) in book Three, are they going to rush almost 30 chapters in the season finale? =/

    Or are they saving some of book 3 for season 4? :)

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    1. Considering that books 3 & 4 are at the same time, they're probably stopping here to leave joffrey's wedding and much of the other stuff that happens later in those books for the next season

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    2. They officially said book 3 will encompass seasons 3 and 4.

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    3. Book 3 was divided into 2 parts so might be season 3 & 4. Book three set up the rest of the story for the next few book. Don't get attached to anyone. You never know whats going to happen. People you hate now might be the people you go for later its twisted but awsome.

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    4. Book 3 has been released in two parts in paper back around the world (so has book 5), with the Red Wedding being the end of the first part, and the Royal Wedding the end of the second part.
      @Kelly: Books 4 and 5 happens at the same time, not 3 and 4.

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  11. The Red Wedding is a fixed point in the story, and it had to happen, just like Ned's death, and Joffrey's wedding (*giggle*) and its fallout. Yes, some good characters die throughout, but, as I tell everyone when they complain about character death in George's universe: no one wins when playing the game of thrones. Everyone loses. Just some sooner than others...

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  12. The problem I have with that scene is not that they kill some characters, which is part of the plot, but the way it was shot - the scene stabbing a pregnant woman in the belly is gross and offensive.

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    1. Read the news. Have you heard of a place called Syria? What you find offensive is hillarious given that its fiction

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    2. Are you retarded? what is the relation with Syria?

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  13. In the late nineties I read the fist two books of "A Song of Ice and Fire" at the recommendation of a few friends on a fantasy forum. I didn't like it.
    Over a decade later I watched two seasons of "A Game of Thrones" at the recommendation of practically every geek ever. I still didn't like it.
    Neither time it was anything like seething hatred, mind you, but just blatant indifference.
    Do I have to turn in my nerd badge now? I kinda feel like I failed you guys...

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    1. Never. To be a Nerd is to love something too much. We must never judge what other Nerds should and should not love. Game of Thrones is not for everyone. You should keep your Nerd badge, if for no other reason that you are posting in a mini-gaming fan site.=)

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  14. Nobody cares, just read the books and stop crying. IS it Warhammer 40k site or games of thrones.

    Dude :(

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    1. ...? Your audacity at begrudging Natfka the right to post about whatever he wants on his own blog is truly astonishing.

      There have already been several 40k posts in the last 24 hours, and some on other games systems - its not like your losing content! -_-

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    2. Natfka has stated that he intends to broaden the scope of the blog, so no it is neither, and yes it is both.

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    3. Interesting, In the timeline i see posts about Malifaux, Dark Age, GW Legal, and yes, Game of Thrones. Seems like this is more a wargaming site. Since GoT is popular among wargamers (and most other types of human, and several species of ape), It would follow its a good topic for a blog post.

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  15. Best part of series, Ned Stark being killed twice!

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    1. Lmfao first time ive seen this one.

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  16. Im just glad they kept the bit about Bolton choosing a bride based on her weight so he could get loads of silver one of the funniest bits of the books, on second note Robb's wife getting stabbed in the belly... i just didn't see that one coming utter carnage, i guess that puts to bed any theories of robb having an aire. The series just keeps getting better and better and i can't wait for joffery's wedding although i dont think it'll be till the next season.

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    1. AS far as I remember she was not pregnant in the books. Her mom had some house medicine against that.
      I bet thousands of mothers in the US wanna know the recipe lol.

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    2. In the book though she is a totally different character.
      But I think we just have to accept that Robb is gone.

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    3. Azatoth, I think its called progesterone, and at least 90% of US women use it at some point in their life ;)

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  17. In season one we are told:
    "When you play the Game of Thrones, you either win or die"
    This was also one of the quips at the back of the first book.

    Keep this in mind :)

    BTW I find it funny that you mention Jon Snow as a more "isolated character" than Robb Stark. Considering how Jon is portraid as more of a "Main character" in the books.

    It's going to be interesting to see who of the original characters actually survive til the end of the series (Of books/TV)

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    1. I think he meant isolated geographically speaking, someone who isn't surrounded by armed guards at his disposal and members of his family etc.

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    2. Yeah, okay. You really didn't get the right feeling that the Northmen were drunk as hell from the episode though. All we learned was that Balton "dont drink", even though we have seen him drink before.

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    3. Think Arya is also a very main character as well, perhaps more in the books at this point than the series.

      Tyrion, Arya, Brann, Jon and Daney are the main focus now, with the Onion Knight and Stannis a bit back. That changes of course.

      Cannot wait till the tv ies gets to Sun Spear :P

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  18. Grrm has stated that Ned had to die because everyone assumed he was the hero and he would somehow save the day. He then said that people would assume his eldest son would save the day and have vengance so Eobb by default had to die as well. Grrm says if a character is killed and you get up and get more popcorn than it was a waste of a character. Grrm makes you value the characters more because none of them are safe.

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    1. True. Plot sheilds makes for less interesting characters. Just like american banks some characters just seem "to big to fail" :P

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  19. I had not intended to engage anyone in a conversation about this. I watched the show with my two roommates -- one of whom has read all of the books and another who has not read any of them. I have also not read any of the books, and had no intention of doing so at least until the show reached its end.

    I did not like S3E9. I was not upset, or crushed, or screaming "no." I keep hearing all of these descriptions of the way that I was supposed to be feeling, generally as described by the snickering crowd that have previously read the books ... and I can safely tell you that I felt absolutely nothing. Nothing, at least, save confusion.

    There was no logical build-up in the narrative to reach this point. The pacing of the show thus far did not in any way justify the abrupt abortion of the what was frankly the majority of the entire plot at this point in time. I sincerely believe that the only reason these characters were all thrown up into a wholesale slaughter was for GRRM to have some sort of giggling fit at how "upset" everyone got. In other words, the only justification I can see is that this was done exclusively for "shock value."

    Well, there are other genres out there that specialize at producing "shock value" entertainment -- splatter films, extreme pornography, and perhaps we can even throw snuff films into that list. No one ever discusses the "literary brilliance" of any of these, because we rightly classify them for exactly what they are -- pornographic. They are not works of art. They are certainly the furthest thing from what I expected in the fantastic storytelling I have thus far been exposed to in Game of Thrones.

    I also keep hearing people say that it is "so cool" that this happened because it shows that "no one is safe! *giggle, giggle!*"

    So? At what point was the audience (and I assume, the reader?) not clued in to that fact when Ned had his head chopped off? The difference, of course, is that when Ned was killed ... there was proper support for that in the narrative. It fit the pacing. It was an "anticipated" climax that was built up through the sequence of events in the literary dream established by the show. The cliche' of it was violated by the show actually -DOING- it rather than having some sort of deus ex machina event arise that saves / spares Ned in the final moments. But at any rate -- you could feel fate closing in on that character prior to his demise, and it enhanced the entertainment of the show.

    I'll say again, S3E9 was nothing like this. It was an abrupt termination of everything that the audience / viewer has thus far been able to identify as the "story arc" of this narrative. Those of us who have not read the books are literally felt thinking that we have just wasted 29 episodes worth of our lives becoming invested in a story that was explicitly set up for the purpose of going nowhere. The only reason it was even created was to giggle at our expense when it was killed.

    And now we praise this as quality storytelling? Seriously?

    I did not even like any of the characters who died in this episode. Frankly, I -disliked- most of them. My offense and sense of betrayal comes at the fact that it was not the characters who were murdered ... it was literally the story itself.

    That, in my opinion, is inexcusable.

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    1. With Winterfell burned, Brann and Rickon and Arya thought dead, the fall of the Starks verged on inevitable. Just as Renly and Stannis had their falls (though Stannis being toughest and truest heir, and wielder of a very powerful weapon in the form of Melissandre, still has his head), the point of the show is that the quest for power is a war of attrition, and at some point someone wins wars. You're complaining about the Stark household's fall, but you're ignoring the plot lines of Stannis, the Ironborn, the King in the North marching on the wall, and of course the inevitable invasion of Westeros from Dany Targaryen. All but one (excepting the northmen, they can always just go back to the north) of these forces will perish in the end, and they're all fighting over the throne while the white walkers wait for winter. Even the winner will potentially face the greatest invasion in thousands of years, and the potential end of Westeros as we know it.

      Just saying, you're overly attached to the "the good guys win" story line. Martin doesn't see the righteous character winning in a game of politics. Robb sewed the seeds of his death when he relied so heavily on the Boltons and alienated one of his most important bannermen. He was a flawed leader, and while his martial skills were unparalleled, his personal foibles (youth and indiscretion) were too great for him to be victorious.

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    2. Well Said Ian. Especially about Robb.

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    3. There WAS a logical build up to the Red Wedding. How many times was Robb warned that Walder Frey was a dangerous man to cross? How many people told him he lost the war when he married his foreign wife instead of one of the Freys? If Roose Bolton was loyal, why did he free Jaime? Who burnt Winterfell?

      As has also been said, Robb was losing despite winning all his battles - his Honour caused the Karstarks to desert him with half their army. In the books Roose Bolton "accidentally" was beaten in battle by the Mountain but his only casualties were troops loyal to Robb, not to Bolton. He turns up at the Twins with only half his army but they are nearly all his men, not Robb's. Robb had lost - we just had to see how he lost.

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    4. Having read the books, but not watched Season 3 yet...
      Winterfell has been raised in the series but they haven't shown who did it?

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    5. Yeah Felix they were leaving that out to build tension, they jump cut from one of the iron men knocking Theon out to Brann and Rickon escaping the smoking ruins of Winterfell and running into the Maester.

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  20. @Ian -

    That's a pretty jarring simplification of my statements. I'm not sure at what point my complaints of story for the sake of the story came across as "whining because the 'good guys' didn't win," but that was not at all the point I was trying to make.

    The problem I have is that this did not fit the pacing of the narrative, and was frankly the mark of an amateur writer relying on shocking the audience under the excuse of 'violating cliche'.'

    Did you miss the part where I mentioned that I didn't even like any of the characters that died, or did you simply reply after reading the first few sentences of what I wrote? I don't mean that to come across sounding like a flame -- I realize it was a huge wall of text. But you've horribly missed the point of everything I wrote.

    Like it or not, the narrative of this story was executed in such a way as to establish the Stark <---> Lannister conflict as the primary axis upon which all other plots were rotating. Maybe the books execute this better? I don't know, I haven't read them. But the fact that the show has been shot in this way makes it feel like there is nothing left but minor characters and revolving plot points that either had very little association with the main story arc, or are so far and away that they are not yet able to be relevant to the story (i.e., Daenerys, White Walkers, King in the North, etc.)

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    1. Whether you like the characters is irrelevant. This wasn't about "shock" value, the Starks were going to lose. it was just a matter of how. With Winterfell already destroyed, they had nowhere to retreat to. Their deaths were inevitable, and E9 of the series is always a major plot event. I suspect E10 will setup next season's major conflicts.

      Just because you perceive the Stark v Lannister conflict as the main one, the point of book 3 is ending the rebellions. Someone had to lose. It was the Starks. In my opinion, the true conflict they are setting up is the invasion from Esteros and the North. All of the internal politics of Westeros is a distraction from the true threats, which is why its so important that everyone ignores the Night's Watch and lets their defenses fall apart.

      And yes, I read all of your post, but I didn't think your complaint was valid. The Lannisters won the War of 5 Kings, it was almost inevitable that would happen. If the Northmen wanted to secede they shouldn't have invaded the south. Its not like things were going well for Robb Stark up to that episode and he got secretly murdered (Which is what happened with Renly after all), his keep was razed to the ground, he lost his largest contributor of troops, and Roose Bolton made a deal with the Lannisters in the previous episode. The strings were all coming together for this.

      As for the distance of threats from the main characters that are left, don't forget the Northmen are marching on the wall as all of this is going on. Their invasion could start at any time. And don't forget Jon Snow, Stannis, Arya, and Brann. They all have a role, not to mention the Brotherhood Without Banners, who didn't depend on Stark support and remain a guerrilla threat to the ruling families.

      Much of the reason for the focus on Robb Stark in this book was to setup the defeat of the Starks. I promise if you stick with it the point and direction of the plot does come together.

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    2. Oh and I hope you didn't think i was accusing you of whining, I just dispute your reasoning, I don't disparage people I disagree with, just challenge their assertions ;)

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    3. Admittedly, this is why I had trouble enjoying the show. It just couldn't adequately capture how many things were going on at once. Reading the books, you definantly rooted for Robb and the Starks but it was always in your mind that they would fail.
      Robb blatantly insulted Walder Frey, was young, brash and was definitely not a perfect leader.
      One thing to bear in mind is that the show completely changes events and even characters (Robb Stark's wife is actually a minor Noble in the books, adding further insult to the old and proud Walder Frey.)

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  21. The narrative was driving towards this point from every direction, you just didnt saw it coming.
    I will like just to add that the same person that killed Renly when nothing could avoid his victory said he was going to die, the logical end of the war was Robb´s death (unless you want the hiperpredictible hero wins aganist imposible odds kind of history) and Robb has to pass to leave space for other starks more interesting: The one with unknow mother, the one with powers,or the one who learns from... Ah I wont tell but just believe me that Robb is not such a big lose for the history. He was bound to fail even if he had conquered Casterly Rock, because then... WTF was him supose to do with all armies of westeros attacking him in a city where everyone hates him?
    Sorry for my bad english!

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