Apparently there has been a lack of Sternguard and Veteran box finecast box sets in GW stores of late, due to a problem with the quality of the molds. I do not have confirmation on this, but it was worth mentioning in case readers are waiting for or looking for these models.


Please remember that this is not confirmed, so if you have some information to add, please do so below.

via David from the Faeit 212 inbox
not sure if you've had this info but have you noticed the lack of sternguard and vanguard vet box sets in GW stores? this is due to the extreme poor quality of the moulds and resin used. gw hobby centers were requested to send these boxed models back to GWHQ and are waiting for the new re-done resin models to be sent back. ive been informed the resin they use has been improved and the moulds have been redone.

56 Comments:

  1. If they make veterans in plastic it would be better...
    Finecast was the worst choice GW ever made...

    Master Sheol

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    1. Finecast > pewter all day every day

      I'll admit that plastic might be more sturdy and easily manufacturable, but I've had nothing but good experiences (save one, and GW customer service rectified it) with finecast. It's easier to work with IMO and holds paint better than metal and even plastic

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    2. Truth-be-told. the best way to get Sternguard is just buying the Command squad box, and Vanguard you could just buy some Assault Marines with Terminators Honours Pads. Then its down to your modelling skill to achieve the "Veteran" look that suits you.

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    3. You have clearly never tried to paint FW resin then... Finecast has a tendency to absorb the paint for some reason instead of letting it sit on the surface.

      To be honest I dont understand why everything isnt done in plastic these days, especially with how well they can detail plastic now (Dark Vengeance anyone?)

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    4. My thoughts exactly. I'm still yet to come across a perfect example of a finecast miniature. I've seen acceptable, but not perfect. I often wonder who does their quality control, because some of the stuff that seems to slip through the cracks are just awful.

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    5. Jess Goodwin and other folks at GW have said they would much prefer to do everything in plastic. Apparently it is cost prohibitive at the moment. It has something to do with the nature of the molds and the casting process. They seem to be able to use the old pewter molds to make finecast models, but with the plastics they need to be re-sculpted from the ground up. In other words, to get everything in plastic, everything would need to be re-sculpted.

      So its never been a finecast vs. plastic issue, but a finecast vs. pewter. Everyone agrees plastic is the best. I prefer finecast over pewter but find both of the mediums flawed.

      My guess is that as new models are made, we'll start seeing more kits like the plastic chaos aspiring champion. Notice that none of the new chaos releases that were brand new sculpts were done in finecast. The closest things were the mutilators, which were just built from the obliterator kits.

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    6. Actually, I am wrong there. Dark apostle and Warpsmith.

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    7. (I'm not ignoring your point, just following up my own)

      Plastic > Resin in every way for many reasons, easier to convert, easier to stick together (GW Superglue is awful), interchangable parts which aren't really possible on finecast.

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    8. If quality control lets through model with defects i wonder how bad some of them must be before the quality check.

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    9. I agree. A plastic kit, or box, would have let the consumer create the options tailored to their preference. The old metal miniatures were too limited.

      My plan is to use FW MK3 bodies as my Blood Angel Sternguard, unfortunately, that plan has been delayed thanks to the Kingdom Death: Monster kickstarter.

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    10. Finecast would be great if they would slow down a bit, and try to eliminate the bubbles. I think they are in such a hurry to produce the models, they are not pouring them properly.

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    11. Not saying that I wouldn't prefer everything in plastic, but as a fanatic converter, finecast is a dream when compared to pewter.

      Case in point. I tried to convert Sammael twice, the first time - in pewter - I gave up because of the sheer arse-ache of having to saw limbs and file Dark Angel paraphernalia. I did the same with the finecast kit and it took me a fraction of the kit.

      The resin they use is lovely and soft under the knife, which makes it easier than even plastic for conversions.

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    12. @Unforgiven: Are you priming your models first? I've painted several finecast models and never had any problems like that.

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    13. As neat as the Sternguard models look, I just don't want to deal with resin. I've been putting together a plastic squad using bits from the Tactical Squad box, Commander box, Command Squad box, and Devastator Squad box. There are more options in these boxes than come in the Finecast kit. And if you have some extra vehicle storm bolters lying around, a quick conversion can replicate the box magazines found in the resin kit.

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    14. truth is : there is NO quality control.

      it would cost much more to employ someone to control the models than to replace them everytime.
      if theres a problem with the model - just let them be replaced by gw.

      the only thing they do is steadily improving the production process.

      last finecast models i bought were a champion of the emperor which is simply fantastic and space marines veterans and sm veterans in mk2 armour which also were great.
      only "problem" were the bent swords and that problem was solved with some hot water.

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    15. @Martin, nope i hadnt, it was the imperial primer and abaddon black it absorbed ;)

      I am aware using the spray resolves the issue though.

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    16. On the moulds:

      Pewter and resin minis are done by pouring molten material into the mold until overflowing and then shaken to get out the air bubbles. The rubber can withstand the heat of molten pewter and is soft so it can be peeled off in two halves once hardened.

      However, plastic manufacture is done by injection moulding and in that process the liquid plastic is injected into a steel mold at very high pressures. This is to force out the air as well as to get even results and smooth and sturdy models.
      Plastic injection moulding requires the moulds to withstand very high pressures without deforming and still stay sharp and hold the detail.

      Thus, injection moulds are precision machined out of high grade steel and are usually unique, although modular moulds are starting to become popular.
      It is because of the demands of plastic moulding why everything isn't plastic. The investment in a precision made steel mould is considerable and for models that do not ship enough units to be worth it, they obviously don't do it.

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    17. Got my wonderful vanguad veterans in metal waitin for a couple of layers of paint... they are GREAT! NO filling problems, no holes... GREAT!

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  2. On a slightly related note, Is anyone else getting really annoyed with the way GW Staff are getting recently. My local store was all about booking tables and playing games and having fun, now everything is just geared to how can we force people to buy stuff they don't want to buy.

    This month will be hobbit games only.

    Last month we could only play games if we were playing with the new Chaos releases.

    They think that by doing this they will generate more business, but actually they are just alienating their regular customers as noone likes to be told what they should be buying or doing in their spare time. I'll do as i please thankyou GW...

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    1. I suspect it's due to a common flaw in many big businesses, orders filter down from the top who've never set foot in a store and don't understand the customers...
      Or at least that's how it seems to me and everyone I know who's ever worked in retail in some way!

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    2. I can not imagine that being true. There is no way our local store would dictate ONLY x games played (and it is a GW store). It sounds like your local manager is a dick. Write to head office, tell them. I really can not imagine it being condoned.

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    3. I worked at GameStop for a year and a half, and you're right, corporate policies make you look like a d-bag, but if you don't follow them you could get yourself canned. I'm not saying this excuses the staffs treatment of regulars. I always gave regulars (nice and curtious regulars) special treatment and leeway.

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    4. While on the topic of mt local GW store, i to this day dont own a DA codex, so i asked them to order me one in. I saw the order details myself of their stock up which included 3 DA codexes, but showed 0 delivered, confirmation of January release perhaps?

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    5. The local store to me got a chaos space marine codex in their delivery 2 days before the new one was released, so as likely as I think a dark angel release is, GWs stock levels don't mean much

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    6. FLGS all the way. I used to be a regular at the 'local' GW (20 miles) and had good experiences over a few years playing various games organised by store or by booking a table with friends. Then they closed off the extra gaming area and only allowed games that matched corporate sales drives. I stopped going and then found a good FLGS called No-Mans-Land in Maidstone (shameless plug) which also happens to be local store for Dan Abnett! Can't say cooler than that and the store is no pressure and good gaming all the way.

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    7. Gadzooks! Another Maidstonian!!!
      The Maidstone GW staff are nice guys (which is more than I could say for bluewater staff), they're just a bit hog-tied by policy like all the others. So you recommend No Man's Land? For some reason I've always been a little too intimidated To ever go in :P

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    8. 20 miles... Probably not an actual Maidstonian (curse speed reading!), still it's a nice surprise to see my hometown mentioned here of all places :P

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    9. Well blow me, three Maidstonians in a single thread?

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    10. 3?! Well this must be proof it's a small world after all! xD

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    11. Count that 4! Albeit one who sold out and moved to sunny Dubai.

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    12. Tried something similar myself once in Anaheim California, but it didn't work out. Great experience though!
      I must say this is almost surreal :P

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    13. It might be worth us all meeting up for a game ;)

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  3. You kids will miss pewter when it is gone. OK probably not but you will never learn my style of kung fu.

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    1. Pewter has been gone for years now. 'White Metal' has been the thing for about the last decade.

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  4. New plastic casts for Hobbit are very high quality and I would prefer to finecast all the way. I would rather by ebay metal than finecast.

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  5. The finecast Vanguard kit is awful, all the swords are bent and you have to spend hours trying to get them straight again, not sure about the sternguard. The last couple of finecast models I have got have been perfect. Both were limited edition space marines. Finecast has grown on me, but I'd still rather be painting metal once it's under coated well.
    Moulds for plastic are metal so aren't as flexible as the rubber used for resin, which is why they can't just put everything into plastic without re-sculpting. If they tried to mould a finecast line in plastic the halfs of the mould would not come apart once the plastic had been injected (without breaking the model and leaving bit stuck in the mould) It also sucks for detail compared to other mediums. I can't stand plastic faces, although there are a lot better then they used to be. I wish forge world resin didn't cause cancer, it's the best material by far.

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    1. I think I agree that the worst quality of plastic is generally the faces, but I do think they've improved enormously in that area.

      I personally hate finecast. I've bought a fair bit of it - none of it was perfect, and I've only ever had one model I didn't need to return. Yes, some of that is shitty luck - but a lot of it is GWs awful quality control.

      I'd rather have a plastic model with a resin head, though. The finecast stuff does seem to stick to plastic better than metal with superglue. (Yes, I'd rather just have resin heads and entirely plastic everything else)

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  7. No word on sending back sterngaurd boxes to corporate. False as far as I know.

    -friendly neighborhood GW employee

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    Replies
    1. Because a GW employee would do anything but openly deny this was the case openly on the internet ^^

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    2. Ignore either of the openlys to make this sentence proper. Got a bit carried away.

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    3. Re No Mans Land in Maidstone there is a Thursday night gaming club, so anyone interested should turn up and ask. It is an interesting group and a higher age bracket than GW (most are 20+ and youngest is 16) and wouldn't recommend for younger. Very relaxed atmosphere and can model, paint or play games as desired and no sales pressure at all. Also lots of non GW gaming. Only 'intimidation' is having to ask someone as no one will try and shove product etc down your throat...

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    4. Cheers, I'll give it a look sometime!
      I think it's just something about the area, I'm sure it's fine.

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    5. Well it is Maidstone, so in general you should take care anyway ;-)

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  8. I tried to reply to what others were saying about GW stores, but for some reason it wouldn't let me. Anyways, I stopped going to GW stores about 2 years ago because I wasn't allowed to play on a table. Supposedly, it was designated for warhammer fantasy. So I kindly moved to the table next to it, and was told to move my stuff, it was a warhammer fantasy day. The only other tables available were for painting. I had just gotten into the hobby at that time and was pissed that I had driven 15 miles and was not allowed to play, even though I was using GW product that I had bought at a GW store. GW corporate is full of morons who have no retail experience or customer service (in the actual stores). Needless to say, I've never bought from a GW store since.

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    1. I hear you bro sometimes you get one of the worst emplyes in your home near store yet ... not always the case is like that ... find another one there are always good people treating others in a better way ...

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  9. Again, there has been no communication from corporate to the effect of this rumor. I've stopped caring about people bitching about finecast. It will win people over eventually, or be added to the long list of things people complain about just to complain.

    What is important is that we have received no official word on sterngaurd boxes. This means, as far as my store is concerned, this rumor is just plain false. Your opinions on finecast are irrrelevant.

    -friendly local GW employee

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  10. I could see them going to a 5 man box like the Grey Knights. Vanguard don't nessicarly need jump packs. Sternguard could use more combi weapons, they could add 1 of each heavy weapon and just add bolters for Tactical squads and charge you $55 a box. Bits galore though!

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  11. Mostly @Unforgiven: I have to disagree with you on most of your points unfortunately, duder.

    Are you washing your resin before you spray it? Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs (what with your being a painting chap an' all) but as the resin used is slightly porous both GW & FW resin kits retain some of the release agent used to unstick the shaped resin from their moulds. If you don't wash the resin parts in warm soapy water before priming there is a good chance that the coating that's still on the resin will repel the paint (rather than absorb it) so that it pools in blobs or just runs off rather than spread evenly over the surface and dry. I wash both GW & FW resin parts before use even though only Forge World advocated it to start with and the only time I've had issues painting resin is when I'd forgotten to wash a few parts.

    Also, I'm not sure where you are (Kent?), but in Essex I've had no problems with GW staff, they've been amongst the most friendly staff that I've ever experienced, anywhere, ever. Just yesterday I was in the Chelmo shop trading in some unopened items for a new Triarch Stalker and the only guy working in there spent 98% of his time at the gaming table teaching new young'uns how 40k works. Most excellent.

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    1. I assume he was originally referring to the Maidstone GW (which is THE county town of Kent for all it matters :P)
      In which case I will vouch for the staff saying they are nice blokes, far less 'aggressive' compared to others I've met but it's their 'initiatives' to push product that let them down. Of course this all stems from head office's whacked out expectations...

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    2. The individuals themselves arent so much the problem, but the decisions that have been made which prevent us from doing the one thing which is most important here... Gaming.

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  12. A couple ppl at my local 40k club have had issues with vanguard and sternguard finecast models. These were usually bubbles in the legs or imperfections like that. They contacted GW and usually got a new kit out of it, while keeping the original and just using green stuff to fix it.

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  13. I've rarely had a problem with Finecast. I think people should've give it another shot. Finecast has really improved since its release. However, its funny that the 1 miscast I do have is of a sternguard. Called GW today and they said they'd work on getting me a new one.

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  14. Plastic>resin plastic allows more creative individual models . For instance the death company can be vettrans better than resin .

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  15. Uh oh. I got my Sternguard in metal, the box had been sitting at the LGS forever, got it at a low price... but right now I'm waiting on delivery on a big order. About 14 different finecast kits or blisters, including Vanguard. Hopefully they're not flawed...

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