Here is a nice little write up with the help of a magnifying glass over on Warseer. This includes a lot of the special rules, and point comparisons, so is definitely worthy checking out and reading through.

Please remember that these were read with a magnifying glass from the January White Dwarf. So there could be mistakes still.

via Dr. Who over on Warseer
On Deathwing Terminators (Elite):
A little more expensive (not much) than your average Astartes version but you get Deathwing Assault, Splitfire USR, Inner Circle and Vengeful Strike special rules thrown in to the bargain. You can pretty much customize the squad anyway you like. They start out as a standard tactical squad but you can upgrade any number of them to assault terminators with either a pair of lightning claws (free) or the omnipresent thunderhammer and storm shield combo (you must pay for that privilege). For every 5 models (you can have a max of 10) you get the option of a heavy flamer, plasma cannon, assault cannon or cyclone missile launcher (no flakk option). You can also have the usual dedicated Land Raider but if you do, then you must pay for the Deathwing Vehicle upgrade which is mandatory.

If there is an option to make them a troop choice, it resides within the character section.

On Deathwing Knights (Elite):
Again a little more expensive than normal Deathwing Terminators (still not much). They have +1 WS, Maces of Absolution and Storm Shields as standard except the Knights Master. He has the Flail of the Unforgiven instead of the mace, and as far as I can make out, also +1 attack (don't quote me on that one). They also have a king's ransom of special rules: Deathwing Assualt, Hammer of Wrath, Inner Circle, Fortress of Shields and You Cannot Hide. The last two were a little hard to make out, so I'm 100% sure on those. The Smite rule is not mentioned by name but I think it is part of the weapon special rules. They can also be given a '... Relic of the Unforgiven' (the '...' part I cannot decipher) and a Land Raider which must have the Deathwing vehicle upgrade as well.

On Dreadnoughts (Elite):
Now cheaper! Same price as the Chaos Helbrute but with a free Storm Bolter! Same options as the Astartes version - including the Rifleman option but the Dreadnought close combat weapon has been replaced with a powerfist. The Venerable Dreadnought is now an upgrade. I don't have my books but I think it is a lot cheaper than before (still hard to make out, but it looks like the price of a powerfist). The Venerable also get the Deathwing Vehicle rule as standard it seems. No mention of Mortis options.

On Landspeeders:
Their Bestiary page is also in the WD. The Vengeance version has a heavy bolter and a Plasma Storm battery as standard. Otherwise it is you standard Land Speeder. The Ravenwing Darkshroud version is a Land Speeder with a heavy bolter and it has the Scout USR apparantly. It also has (or has the option for) the 'Icon of Old Caliban' which gives +1 to friendly units within 12" when determining assualt results (not cumulative). The Darkshroud special rule gives the Land Speeder the Shrouded USR and friendly units within 6" gain the Stealth USR (not cumulative, does not affect the Darkshroud itself).

The codex is mentioned as being 104 pages long.


  1. So the idea of 40 TH/SS Terminators is looking grim? More expensive to start and then more expensive for TH/SS. What's everyone else think?

    1. Since they get 4 extra rules and option to take whatever weapon you want in the squad, not surprising they cost more. But he did stress it being not much more so it sounds like a steal.

    2. of course the TH/SS build is going to suck in this codex! thats how everyone built the deathwing last codex. They cant have you using the same models :P

    3. I also think it is fair to bring them a little in line with other "modern" Terminators, even though the Death Wing is one of their selling points. I don't mind them bing at least one step closer to the price of Space Wolves Terminators.

      now prob the innercircle thing wich is prob worse -.-

      steahlt speeder only 6" range

      104 pages of fail

      thx Vetok

    5. @Azrell

      Anyone who thought their Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield terminators weren't going to become more expensive was deluding themselves, we knew they were costed based on Storm Shields being a 4+ Invulnerable save that only worked in close combat.

    6. Except they weren't. Because the vanilla space marine codex clearly came out with 40/model TH/SS terminators.
      Should TH/SS be more expensive? I say no, I say make DLC and SB/PF cheaper.
      SB+PF and DLC terminators should be 35
      SB+PW terminators should be 30
      And TH/SS should be 40.

    7. @Anon 3:42. I don't like feeding Trolls but that first line made me laugh while I did a face palm.

      The author has a good rep for writing Balanced and fun Codexes and we are only getting bite size info and have no clue what the full picture is. Also I see you don't play SM armies because all the DA units will have ATSKNF which is almost exactly like fearless except you just some dice.

      So here, have a Troll snack. @_@ 'yummy' nom nom.

    8. The author has no Rep. For 40k Dexes

      We are only getting the "Good" Info (like with CSM) Once the dex Hits High Point Cost will be revealed.

      ATSKNF is Not at all like fearless. Fearless means i can lose combats Without Running and being wipped Out by a Opponent that gets to Charge. Also i dont Ever Run of the Board. I cant be caught falling back when the Game ends (Not being able to Auto really caus no more Turn) loseing an objektiv becaus falling back Units cant Score!
      Fearless is much much better
      So maybe you should Play more First?

      This dex will be a major Set back.
      Now i can Run 7 th/Ss cml termi Squads + Belial and Interroger chap. at 2k points. Soon it will be 1 Less squad, no fearless.. Whats the up side? Split Fire???? Lol vengence Strike? Prob smth like acidblood on Nids, nice but meehh!

      This Hobby is becomeing a Game for non pro, non comp Players. Its for lil Kids with Rich parents!

    9. Wow! Really dude? Tell you what I will ship you a win button and some loaded dice becuase you sound like a bad player with a bad attitude.

      But, sure whatever, this codex will be sooooo bad. I will just have to remember this as I am winning in my future games.

      "ATSKNF is not at all like Fearless." LOL hahahahahahahah! Have fun with your bitter whine.

    10. Everything that we're hearing so far about this codex is good, and we haven't even seen really anything about the flyer yet. Of course the points cost were gonna change, the plethora of new special rules far then makes up it. We're practically seeing the best (not counting the horrible op GK ones) terminators ever.

      I want to hear more about two things though, first being the Inner circle rule, I have a feeling that this will confer the fearless rule that everyone is complaining about as it seems to be on all the previously fearless units. And second; What is this Deathwing vehicle upgrade all about?

    11. Might I remind you that GW has always said that this game is meant to played for fun and that they do not write the rules or the codexes for competitive play. So cry all you want about this book being none comp friendly because it was never going to be in the first place!

    12. There should be a reminder the Balial will most likely have Fearless to give his unit that he joins, Termies have a ld of 9 which is nothing to laugh at and in my experience they almost always give more wounds than they receive outside a few exceptions. Example would be getting charged by a Power House unit like other Termies which if you lose combat and fall back you can now charge that unit on your turn. Vengeance is served.

      The complaints are thin and really going out of the way to be justified. And we haven't seen the Codex yet.

      Are you guys mad that 12/21/2012 didn't happen and you were so ready for it? Well get ready for that same feeling becuase the game is not going to end becuase of this new codex and it will be good for DA players who have been waiting for this.


      new pics

    14. @Anon 6:41:

      So because you don't have the exact same codex just printed in full color, it's a setback? Because you have to think of new ways to win, it's a setback? You can't find ways to win with more than 10 new unit entries, unique new special rules formulated for 6th edition, and powerful new upgrades and combos?

      These are not the signs of a competitive player - these are the signs of a bad player.

    15. the same unit has more rules but worse cost & worse rules

      do you get that part?

      whats the point in haveing a ton of equipment and rules if they are overpriced and do lil to nothing for you?

    16. LOL. Oh my god. Really?

      So Split Fire is worse and you already know what this whole new rule is and have test played it already? Excellent, tell us what it does and we will respect your thorough analysis of it.

      Otherwise you do realize you sound like a Troll whining for the sake of whining. And if you think the old DA codex was so great compared to what is being leaked I am going to award you the dumb statement of the year award.

      Heck what does the new DW cost if you are so upset? Do you know the exact number or are you just assuming it is going to be way over priced by what little info has been given to us.

      There you go. More troll treats to chew on. 'Nom nom' @_@

    17. split fire is in the main rule book
      1 weapon can shoot at a nother target
      so only good when runing SB CML and shooting at vehicles + a unit... thats 3 more wounds on the unit than just shooting at the vehicle....BIG DEAL!!!

      in all other cases its not usefull
      with DW you want to run melee terminators with TH/SS in the squads for challanges and ap2 hits in melee
      what good is splitfire then? not much!

      if you never played DW and youre a noob maybe you shouldn´t be so judgmental
      clearly you have no understanding of how 1-2 points on a model make the whole unit and the whole dex not byable.
      Ofc i am takling about comp gameing
      not fluffy "that looks cool" bunnys like you

    18. LOL.... Ok you are right I don't play DW and am a total Noob. I have no way of looking at these new leaked rules and seeing that there is gold in there and that I am going to have to switch up my normal list from the past to optimize for the new rules.

      I mean the old DA book is the best Codex and is the envy of everyone and this new codex is going to suck becuase you have already deemed it so from the tiny little info that has been leaked.

      Yep I am going to sell my army off right after you do. All 3500 pts of it. Just let me know when you do it.

      (I seriously can't tell if your being super sarcastic or are for real becuase dude you sound like a fool who is going to be stuck trying to play this new codex like it was the old one.)

    19. To the anon suggesting other terminators getting cheaper, that would not be fair to Chaos players at all. We get ours for 30 points base, they don't get a power-fist base, they don't have access to 3++ saves, or assault cannons, and they don't have marine special rules like ATSKNF etc. TH/SS terminators SHOULD be more expensive.

    20. @ anon 3.33

      I'm the fool?
      Dud... The facts are the wargear is the Same the points are going up. LC are only ap3 in 6th and stormbolters are just Weak... So you have to Take some Hammers if you want to Run DW. And as we See they will Cost extra ontop of what the squad costs extra now. And ontop we lose fearless. I cant imagin those rules we dont Jet know makeing Termis Sooo much better that it makes up for haveing to field One Less Unit.
      This will be a mediocer dex.
      And i for One am stuck with a 20k Army with Titans and the whole 9 Yards. I cant be bothered going for GWs policy if this is turning into the edition of "BuY Flyers & Allys" and they so mediocer rewrights of Old dexes.
      WE only get 1 Real New Unit
      And a modified speeder termi Bikes
      Sure These rules will be all so Super fun and Good on paper.... But i really Dont have the Time for Fun Games. Nore the Money at These redicules Price hikes we See!

    21. Dude you are one sad puppy. You should really trade your DA army for a GK army and do the rest of us a favor and save this 'Competitive' whine for the next codex. Your opinion has obviously swayed no one and you just sound like someone I am glad I will never play.

      You need to lighten up and wait to see the rules, becuase we Haven't yet, and then take up this topic with your opponents as you continue to lose.

      Or maybe if you want to continue to play DA maybe instead of complaining, becuase it is not going to Change the codex now, you can instead look for the new way to make this army work.

      But save the competitive BS becuase if you were a hard core competitive player you would not have been playing DA becuase the last codex is very out dated with fewer options, weaker characters, and almost everything costs more than their brothers in the Vanilla SM and the VSM had more options and better characters. Let's not even talk about the other SM Codexes.

      And any competitive player knows that to be competitive now days it is about the allies and find the right fit. DA I find works best with IG, BA or Tau. Now just work out what the new best fits will be.

      "Epic Troll Battles of History."

      But hey good luck relearning the DA and I hope after the codex is released your great fears will be relieved.

    22. "But i really Dont have the Time for Fun Games."

      Then why the fuck do you play?

    23. Did... did someone call ATSKNF bad because you get wiped in combat? What? Did you READ the rule book? In what way is getting to charge again with a unit that excels on the charge a bad thing? I have no idea how good this codex will be but this is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen.

    24. imagine playing poker,,, and any card wins
      you just change the rules so everybody can win all the time.
      Full house is over powerde so lets make it worse so its not as good as a pair

      would that still be a fun game?
      in the long run?

      i have no intresst in fluffy rules that do nothing but extend the game lenght

      you might not play comp
      but the bigger part of the hobby does
      all the long time players and vets do
      i have seen enough editions of this game to say this is the least comp ed in a long time

      weak sauce dexes like CSM and DAs are just insult to the community
      and the game is not exactly new player friendly now, with a ton of rules a extra phases added.
      I dont see this ED as way for GW to sell flyers to everyone that played tanks before... and sell a ton of allys and terrain stuff

      If you think GW is actually intressted in makeing a BALANCED game you are deluding youreselves.
      I think its lame that they basiclly are just rereleasing what we allready had in 2nd ED.
      The only real new thing is the flyer
      RW had better cover save without buying a extra speeder back in 2nd

      In a few weeks from now everybody will be crying how unplayable this dex is. (you just need the blogs to tell you becaus you wont belive me) Just like with CSM.

      Ofc there will still be people claiming they win a lot of games now. But those are not people that ever win anything in a Tournament. There opponents suck, thats why they win.

      for all i know about GW policy the rules in WD are peaks of the best not the worst ones in the dex. The bitter pill comes afterwards with FAQs and pointcost. rember how everybody thought the drake would be imba and then it turned out it was 170 points and not twinlinked!
      And from those rules we do know everything is getting worse than the 8 year old last dex. you must be real retarded to wish for that. And ignore that the prices have significantly gone up for no apparent reson. The flyer is hardly bigger than the talon or daka jet. But i guess some people just love everthing that comes form GW HQ and benefits the stockholders?!!

      @ eyjio
      youre comment shows how lil you understand about the game mechanics. You don´t always get the charge after you run from combat. Sometimes its youre opponents turn. Other times you fleed to far or dont make the charge roll, or youre oppnent consolidated away from you. Besides you get overwatched one more time.
      How can you say AKSNF is better or equal to fearless? in 5th maybe... but not today

    25. read ftw

      DW 225 up 10
      DWK 305 for kg5????

      i don´t really see how 1 wound 2+ 3++ is worth that much?!!!

  2. Well our termis are already 15 points more expensive that standard astartes, (he compared price to SM codex not current DA) and it kinda makes sence having to pay for TH/SS given how epic they are.

    1. Except his perspective of "not much more" is subjective. We could be talking 220 per 5 and that might not seem like "much more" but then consider that it's 5 points per TH/SS.
      Now it begins to add up real fast. And that's before special weapons. In the end, a 5TH/SS loadout with a 25pts special weapons will clock in at 270 and that's ridiculous.

    2. 5 points for a 3++ seems affordable to me... Isn't that what BA pay? isn't a 3++ on non character too much anyway?

    3. Hey even Chaosterminators got more expensive - what did you expect?

    4. Shields on my lychguard are 5 pts each and they are only a 3+ and 4++ so quit crying there

    5. So when stuff gets cheaper, people complain that they have to buy more models to fill an army. "Stupid GW trying to make more money!!"

      When stuff gets more expensive (*cough*more balanced*cough*), people complain that they can't fit more models into their army.

      Can't have both folks.

    6. Lychguard are also T5, and with the shield, are basically 3+ 4++ 5+++ (or 4+++ with a reanim orb). A 4+ rerollable is better than a 3+.

  3. Reading this makes me pissed off at how crappy the chaos codex is...

    1. I know right? The helldrake is such a P.O.S.
      And 10 point autocannon havoks? Don't even get me started.

    2. 12:27 anon, I was about to start calling you an idiot until I noticed the blatant sarcasm lol. Stupid me.

    3. I hear so much complaining about the chaos 'dex, but thus far I'm doing very well with it.

      Dark angels do seem to be getting the grey knight treatment though. I'm not as annoyed by imbalance as I am by the number of little special rules that are a pain to keep track of and generally unnecessary.

    4. The Chaos Codex simply doesn't have a lot of mono build spamtastic lists inside, it's what GW is trying to move away from. Not everyone wants a cheesy codex with 6 Razorback troops squads and 3 Riflemen, at least I certainly don't.

      My shooty DW are very excited about the prospect of split fire so my storm bolters can actually shoot something while my missiles glance vehicles.

    5. I also do rather well with my Chaos dex, playing deathguard 2500 battles. I can say that my list is excellent in objective based missions.
      1 Typhus,
      6 Termies (With combi plasma + 1 reaper autocanon,)
      2x Plaguemarines 10 man sqauds (with Pfist + 2meltaguns + dedicated rhino transp,)
      2x plague marines 10 man squad (with pfist + 2plasmaguns)
      1 Helldrake (flamer)
      2x Obliterater 3 man squads (mark of nurgle)

      I have not lost any objective heavy game so far. Plaguemarines are beasts, and yea I might lack anti air, but one oblie squad that morphs assultcannons brings down about one fliers a round.. + the champion of chaos special rule for characters is kinda cheesy if a champ suddenly becomes a deamonprince!

    6. I love the new chaos dex. I wont say its better or worse, just different, and now I play a little differently.
      plus gotta love the Heldrake, massacres MEQ squads

      I dont play DA but it sounds like a solid dex to me.

    7. New chaos dex is super boring with everyone taking plaguemarines, nurgle obliterarots and helldrakes... fun.

    8. Those aren't the only viable options though. I personally take standard CSM instead of mass plague marines, I don't even use obliterators, and Heldrakes compete with super-cheap bikes, spawn, raptors, etc.

  4. When I read the "You cannot hide" special rule, please tell me im not the only one who read that in Sauron's voice...

  5. Wait, why are Loyalist Dreads the same price as Chaos dreadnoughts AND get a free strombolter?

    1. Welcome to GW's idea of balance.

    2. Because we are the astartes and will rain down hell on the fallen for cheaper!

    3. it does have the crazed special rule which is a bonus on every result for the most part.

      But I'm curious to see how much better these termies are than CSM termies at just a bit more expensive.

    4. Well they're WS5, they get stormshields, and tons of special rules. That should sort of make it obvious.

    5. Listen to yourself man.

      Its a stormbolter. Its not a big deal.

    6. Fair enough, though that 5 point differnce means one extra Storm shield or melta bomb.

    7. Because the Helbrute starts with a Multimelta?

    8. you can have the storm bolter if i can have havok launchers on my rhinos.

    9. Azrell (and a few Anons) are right: the points between a Hellbrute and a Dreadnought are really a wash.

      Crazed + Multi Melta


      Storm Bolter + Useless weapon other than twin-linked rifles

      Some of you are just like the media: leave out the important facts to make something seem unfair.

    10. All loyalist dreads since C: SM have had multimeltas base, anonymous 10:51...

  6. Well, BA also pay 5pts extra for thundershields, so I guess this makes sense.
    Still kinda sad at the lack of plasma mortis, though.

  7. BLood Angels pay the extra five because they were under costed in the space marines codex.

  8. How epicly failtastic is it going to be that the elite hunters of the fallen don't have the weapons to fight off a squad in power armor ;/

    1. Try talking to a daemon prince. He lost a point of leadership when he ascended from a Chaos Lord to an immortal daemon with unimaginable power. And the daemon primarchs must all be dedicated to one of the Gods. Thy can't be unmarked any more. Oh, apparently Thousand Sons can now mutate as well.
      Yeah, fluff doesn't always translate very well to rules. I'm sure there are better examples, it's just that I'm reading the Chaos Space Marine Codex at the moment.

    2. You mean PF, no? Maybe DLC, no? How about a CF? Or even a PS? So you're telling me that none of these AP3 or better weapons will kill a PA squad? Either your opponents are cheating you, you've got some seriously rigger dice, or you're just not smart enough to look at the whole picture.

    3. Callum, i believe he is referring to the deathwing knights having mauls, as opposed to something that is ap3. That is just my thinking though if that is what he is referring to. We still have deathwing with the ap2 and 3 weapons azrell, just a less uber squad.

    4. Duh, silly me, of course he is! Wel there's the "Smite" special rule that makes them S10 AP1 for a round, so four with two attacks base and Knight Master with three (I assume, that's always how it works, isn't it?), if they get the charge is 16 attacks at S10 AP1 plus Hammer of Wrath it's gonna kill a lot the first round, but you're right, it'll struggle against 3+. Well they look cool, so I'll take a squad and run them into some big nasties, possibly give them a LR. Oh yeah, and their attack are WS5 and I4, sweet!

    5. But they will be going at I1 seeing as how no one has mentioned assault Nads. The reason TH/SS termis work so well is that they might have to go last but hit hard when they do.

      Trading 1 round of str10 ap2 for an entire game of str8 ap2 is an easy choice.

    6. There's more rules to them, and they're essentially the same rice as a plain Jane Deathwing Squad all with TH/SS.

  9. The ANALysis you guys perform is bizarre! Get a life or another hobby and stop trying to ruin this game with your negative views. If GW went broke you would all have nothing to whinge about. Like others have mentioned - dont buy it if you dont like it.

    1. That's the dumbest attitude I can imagine towards anything. It's a game that many people are already heavily invested in. Imagine getting full golf equipment and then finding out there was a special handicap for wearing your particular brand of cleats. Oh well, just stop playing.

      If you don't like negative views. STAY OFF THE INTERNET!

    2. I find most of the negative posts ridiculous becuase they tend to not look at the big picture and instead focus on smaller parts and compare it to the most powerful entry in another codex.

      Even though this type of analysis is wrong, and will be easy to refute when the full codex is released, you still have to remember this is the internet and indepth rational analysis is more rare than a white buffalo. Knee Jerk responses is the only thing you should expect.

      Oh just a reminder, common sense is never common. ;)

    3. "It's a game that many people are already heavily invested in. Imagine getting full golf equipment and then finding out there was a special handicap for wearing your particular brand of cleats. Oh well, just stop playing."

      I get what you're saying, but I still find it amusing that when they FAQd SS and CMLs most people replaced the majority/entirety of their DW units without complaining at all...

    4. Now now Kitkat. Let's not bring a rational reply in here, it will upset the Doom and Gloom that is traditional for all new codex releases.

      They have their right to freakout and be as pessimistic as they want to.

      But also most players will refit their armies in a heartbeat for nice bonuses like th/ss + cml (which are still an option.) becuase its seen as a 'cool' change when it is faq'ed. New codex changes are always bad for the first couple months of the new codex, then it looks good after that.

      Looking at you you Dragon Beast of firery death and those all annoying Zombies that can hold up an death unit for 4+ turns in combat.

    5. "If GW went broke you would all have nothing to whine about. Like others have mentioned - dont buy it if you dont like it."
      Err... but if nobody is going to buy it wouldn't GW eventually go broke?
      So if I care about GW I should say it when I honestly think that the product is subpar.
      Personally I like the ideas proposed in the rumors... I'll wait to read the codex however.

    6. The book isn't out yet and Dark Angels players are complaining that they cannot automatically win with it. Change your tactics, re-hash your armies.

      This is what happens when children play adult games. Get over the "I want to win" approach and play better. Actually, while I'm at it, read more books. Heck, even read the fluff. Learn to flippin' spell!

    7. bizarre negative views say the anonymous man.

    8. @Pickman: Why is no one going to buy it? GW's basically been on a steady increase in sales (by volume, not just profit) for nearly 2 years now. Dark Angels will sell plenty fine. No one has refused or jumped in based on rumors. They talk big, but rarely make a purchasing decision until they have a live copy of the codex to look through.

      Much like voting, people will go with the popular flow instead of thinking for themselves. They certainly won't speak out against the mob. Right now it's "cool" to complain about GW, even though they've made a bunch of good changes recently (ex: increased release clip, scenario rules straight from TO's, more strategy involved in every phase of a 40k game, bringing more Forgeworld into the mix, frequent FAQ's, etc.).

      Someone reputable on the boards once did it, so now everyone uninformed just runs with it. Like believing the GOP only cares about rich people: someone in the media started it (even though there's no policy, proof, or economic state in history to support it), and everyone believes it. No one does any research or thinking for themselves. We are a Twitter/Sportscenter culture now. They want a headline, not an article. They want to Google, not do real research. They trust Wiki, no academia.

    9. tons of people complain about the 'new codex' before release just because of the rumors. hell the how many of you claimed to hate 6th when it was being leaked with the rules and swore this was going to be the worse edition ever, and now like the rule set? CSM still has their haters but some turn-a-rounds as well. Sure DA, Tau, Eldar will be the same. If anything, most DA people will probably hate the codex since it's not a Ward dex and no blatant cheese. Of course if it was a Ward dex, people would still complain on that same point. oh well

  10. I'm a chaos player, and I feel if we can have an infantry annihilating dragon, dark angels can have some specialized terminators.

    It's the book as a whole I am concerned about. CSM cannot be easily broken (if at all). I don't want to face some dark angels list with an easy button.

    As of right now, I obviously have not read the codex. So although I fear the DA book will be grey-knightish, I reserve judgement for now.

    1. Vengence Strike is prob prefered Enemy CSM :D

  11. Can't we just all play green painted Grey Knights with wings and feathers and call it a day? Save GW a lot of time and effort too... heck, paint them gold, red, and black with skulls and "nemesis force chain-axes" for all I care and we can all just play with one codex and keep everyone happy dangit!!!

    1. Yes, it does seem that some people are not going to be happy until their units (and only their units) have a 2+ invun save with a jump pack and feel no pain 2+ with an assault 10 master crafted multimelta lascannon large blast and 10 attacks at s10 ap1 hitting on a 2+ with re-rolls. Oh, and the unit must have 'it will not die 2+ and seven wounds.

      Oh, and it can't cost more than 3 points and be a troops choice. It's just fugging stupid, boring and petty. It's a game. For once GW are creating fluffy codexes with some character.

      The whining is boring and tedious.

    2. ever heared of Invisi council?
      2++ with reroll

    3. @Nick: You're right, but remember, people also want to be able to buy fewer models at 10% of GW's own cost and still play a 2,000 point game.

      That's right...they want lower points cost, but the ability to buy fewer models for a 2,000 point game as well.

  12. People bitch too much and sceam OP all the time.
    Everybody has something cool, something over coated and/something super killy.
    I don't think comparing point values/units from a different army with point values/units from a current army makes much sense to me. Points are based off of how something works in its current Dex with that specific army.

    Ppl will bitch about anything on the internet. Everyone is a tough guy

  13. Sure the increase in TH/SS cost sucks, but it's not unreasonable BA have payed five points for the upgrade sonce their codex. It'll be annoying for six months until C:SM goes the same way. Honestly, TH/SS isn't as neccesary anymore with the changes to power weapons and wound allocation, you're gonna have S8 somewhere e'se in the squad. And finally, the overall price increase does suck, it's gonna make it difficult to make smaller point DW armies (Especilly of Belial goes up), but and addition fie points per base for rhe potential to make them scoring, arrive on turn 1 or 2, splitfife, and take mixed squads is pretty good to me, the previous edition's points costings were based on the old, crappy SS. I'm just sick of people complaining about the Codex and comparing it to the CSM Codex already, nobody wants a "win button" Codex, it's just not fun.

    1. You haven't played DW???
      You Must Not have.
      DSing is fluffy & Fun but its also pretty much Auto lose. Splitfire wont help much. Stormbolters Suck!
      The only Thing Good about Mixed Squads is the Heavy weapon. But with TH/Ss going up in points and loseing fearless what have you to win? Every possible List that Works now will only be weaker if the points go up. You Need at least 1 Th/Ss per squad... LC dont Cutt it alone! You Need the cml to Give you Range.

      GW just wants to sell the Knight Version of DW and we will all have to Pay to Play?

    2. Of course I have.
      Just because a rule might suck, doesn't mean it's without a price tag.
      Well, if I wanna fire my CML at a flyer, I can shoot another nearby squad which I can then assault.
      There's still ...And They Shall Know No Fear, presumably, which is albeit, not quite as good, but still good.
      If they just wanted to sell the DW Knights, they would just sell, Deathwing Knights. I'm excited to get some Deathwing and actually have a good looking "Command Squad", but if everybody's just gonna be butthurt then they can just go play Draigowing.

  14. yes moron. if gw doesn't make money, there is no hobby. every company in the world tries to innovate, if they don't, they won't last long. So please, anyone crying like a two year old, at least wait till the codex releases and you actually see the rules before starting your temper tantrum....

  15. One thing i have come to hate about rumors and the like...
    People complaining about a codex we have yet to see. It could be crazy overpowered, possibly worst codex ever (reprint of current DA dex would suffice there ;) ) I get showing concern but really, we do not need to hear how the codex we have never seen is the best/worst codex ever...

    /Step off soap box

  16. Natfka I was wondering if anyone had posted this here yet but I have found some more leaked pictures.

    1. They've been up for ages. They were taken down due to copyright infringment, on DakkaDakka too, but that's all there is, at least for the moment.

    2. nope :)

      NEW PICS

    3. I stand happily corrected, thank you my friend!

  17. Prices for units aren't really comparable from codex to codex. They must be costed in relation to how they fit into their own codex. DA can field a lot of Terminators and you have to pay a little extra for that privilege.

    It seems as though codex writers are in a lose-lose situation with a lot of the vocal critics. Either a codex is overpowered and filled with cheese (like GK), or boring and unbreakable (what most people would call BALANCED) like the recent Chaos codex.

    Finally, no-one has seen the codex, let alone had time to absorb its potential.

    Someone mentioned that the game is now for kiddies with rich parents. If that is true, it will get rid of all the opiniated brats who can't see beyond the competitve (and totally unsupported by GW) aspect of the hobby.

    1. look a speeder for 50,-€
      a stormtalon conversion for 60,-€
      termis and bike up 15,-€ to all others

      is it not clear what the next price hike will do to termis bikes flyers in all armys?????

      how is this not an elite hobby for rich?

      look at the mediocre dexes
      lack of antiair in ALL dexes
      look at random charge ranges
      random WLT
      and psy-powers (buy the cards or app)
      and nightfight
      look at pre messureing!!!

      how is that not putting the lvl down to a more, ""i got expensiv Cron-Air chees"" lvl?
      how is that more comp?

      how comp is it loseing a game caus you don´t make a 3" charge
      or lose 1 model to overwatch and not makeing a 5" charge after?
      or an opponent makeing a redicules 10-12 inch charge and owning you in turn 2?
      how is nightfight balanced to not auto f.. over shooty armys vs melee armys?

      how is the game not more for rich kids now?

    2. I was with you until you started your rage about rules.
      Your charge didn't work out - deal with that.

    3. The random charge ranges are awsome it makes the game mush more cinimatic and its the same with overwatch.

    4. DA Anon, that's basically like saying "hurr how is this game competitive when you keep rolling 1's for everything an your opponent roles 6's?"

    5. yeah charge didn´t work

      thats not exactly balanced if the turn out depends so much on getting a charge

      its not like screwing up a moral check or armour save
      its more like loseing your entire unit instead of owning up youre opponents unit!

      if you play elite armys you need those charges, caus you will only get a hand full per game

      and don´t you think, that low BS armys profit more of off overwatch and snapfire?
      5 or 6 compared to 6 to hit is not as big of a diffrence than 3+ to 6+ to hit

      how can you say the game is balanced now?!!
      when it is clearly less balanced than 5th and more fluffy!!!

    6. Nothing is going to get cheaper. A niche hobby certainly won't.

      As long as Western society continues to push for government picking winners and losers instead of letting the free market offer opportunity to people, the value of every currency will tank, every business will be taxed sky-high, and the prices will continue to go up.

      This isn't just a GW thing. Don't act like the price of milk, dried fruit, whole produce, meats, car repairs, utilities, etc., haven't all sky-rocketed.

    7. There are no reasons to explain a $75 plastic dragon. Or even worse $50 for five terminators. Thats $10 each.

    8. The reasons to explain it is that GW sells it for these exorbitant amounts, and people buy them anyway. Kinda hard for the consumer base to complain about the prices, yet buy them anyway. This is why I purchase all my stuff through online retailers.

    9. The reason is PROFITS!!!

      And nooo
      People will Not Pay any and every redicules Price GW Charges.

  18. Back to the shows a watcher in the dark carrying a sword....the text for the pic says he is carrying a perfidious relic. Perfidious means deceitful and what is he carrying? A sword of one of the fallen?

    1. Definitely, possibly something from the time around the destruction of Caliban.
      The weird part I thought was the foot under the cloak is bone white like the Deathwing, I mean the foot having any kind of armour is weird, but then again Azreal's little Jawa buddy has had it for a long time.

  19. its not a setback but when u can see abaddon 265pts duelling mortarion primarch of the death guard 425 pts and win 3/3 of the battle im sure DA purist are looking for some respect after 2 crapy dex of DA.i dont asking for an auto win button but more option and rules from the new codex... sorry for my poor english


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