It looks like some serious point changes are coming to Daemons in the next couple months. This is a little expected and could even include daemons from the last White Dwarf update. We will see.

Daemons are already a strong codex, and hopefully this coming February's update gives us a nice update to keep them competitive.

Please remember that these are rumors.

via theDarkGeneral over at The Daemonic Legion
I have the gracious oppurtunity to glance over some of the new pix and pdf rules...

There will be many players i'm sure that will shun away from Daemons because of the obvious slant towards 40K ish models continuing to trickle in. There will also be a huge uproar from many Daemon players at the points change for MANY units...re-work on spells and much broader range on Magic Standards does help us.

Without saying too much more (and thus throwing up red-flags) I will say that I'm only slightly disappointed in it, rules wise.

New Bloodthirster and Great Unclean One look SICK!!!! However I'm still under the impression from "friends" that we won't see some of the new plastic Greater Daemons 'til closer to summer.

34 Comments:

  1. I am just thankful that no one in my local area play the extreme flamer / screamer lists. But they do appear to need a adjustment so there is more than just 1 build.

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    1. There are actually plenty of daemon builds that are competitive but those that are unimaginative don't try them.... I hardly ever play the same daemon list twice.

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    2. obviously this Melon_head character has no idea what he is talking about, the mono-build of screamers and flamers is OBVIOUSLY the only competitive build

      lol

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    3. Oh god Kevin my arch nemisis shows his true colors. And he has defeated my daemons a few times too.

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    4. As a daemon player who started using the book when it first came out. No, no it isn't. I own several units of entry in the codex and have plaid it brutally through the editions and they have become strongest in 6th than any other.

      Screams and flamers are good, but not best.

      Epy and Blightdrone spamming mono nurgle forces are brutal.

      Surprise mega khorne walker forces are brutal.

      Fiends and Skarbrand full retarted re-roll fast attack lists are brutal.

      Slaanesh super chariot fleet and friends is brutal.

      I have played all of these lists in six and still find them effective and do well at local stores.

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    5. Exactly my point....we need to talk lists...lol

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    6. Same guys as above ^
      Another real daemon player...I didn't think they existed.

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  2. Wow, talking about vague!

    Btw. why is anyone still listening to theDarkGeneral? His 'rumors' on CSM were not exactly accurate.

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    1. Yea id say nothing this guy said was accurate

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    2. TheDarkGeneral gets his rumors from playtest rules. There's quite a bit that changes during the design process, and the rules for a given codex may undergo countless reworks before the final product is ready and finalized.

      While his rumors may not be accurate now, they were particularly spot-on at the time.

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  3. What's really annyoing is that everyone complains when screamers go from melta bombs to s5 armourbane and flamers get two wounds, but lose a pip of save - suddenly these are 'evil' and 'overkill'. Well, what other army has it's deployment utterly, completely, totally enforcedly random? What other army is forced to deploy all over the place, usually out of cover and get shot at for a turn?

    Daemons are not 'overkill' nor are they a strong codex. They're far too random to enjoy playing them sometimes. Mostly I think people just don't understand the game properly to defeat daemons - it's far too easy: the enemy controls your deployment.

    However, I for one want my new plastic greater daemons and some war engines. A silver tower of Tzeentch or some such. Changes to enforced deepstrike would be welcome as well. At least give us the choice.

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    1. And somehow the flamer+screamer lists from this "not overkill and not so strong codex" manage to simply r@pe all other players in my local club and tournaments (in the last 2!, the 1st and 2nd players where both Daemon players with *gasp* flamer and screamer lists).

      And one more thing. The deployment method of the Daemons (while realy random, as you say) has one huge benefit: they get to shoot at the opponent first! Sure, only half their army comes in, but with good use, that half can easily cripple your army, and the only thing you can do is watch.

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    2. I'm guessing ots unfamiliarity with Daemons. I have been playing then since they dropped in forth so all my opponents know how to defeat them...and do....quite regularly. The ramdomness defeats me before my opponent fires a shot sometimes. Small arms fire defeats them like always. Also this rumor is for Fantasy daemons not 40K daemons... other than models there is no 40K info there

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    3. Flamers became 12 pts cheaper and 2w 5++ is tougher then 1W 4++. Want to assault them? Lose one unit to overwatch, then let another unit attack.
      Screamers got more expensive, and went from being quite good vehicle/monstrous creatures slayers into being virtually anti-everything but flyers. A full squad kills 3.9 thunder/SS terminators on the charge, and they cost as much as said TH/SS squad.

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    4. That's the problem....you don't assault flamers you rapid fire them to death. T4 5+ save..... they drop fast to shooting.....they are the definition of glass cannons. They put out the hurt but can't take it. Screamers are actually a bigger problem in my experience as they are awsome. But rapid fire whittles them down too. And keep in mind they can at most be in three squads of nine per squad. And deploy ramdomly and scatter when they do come in. There is inherant risk....also if you play marines think of a libby with nullzone...and watch a daemon player cry. I know I do....lol

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    5. I think the big annoyance is that 2 wounds T4 with a 5+ is equivalent to a T4 3+ in terms of averages, but because of the 2 wounds it means that the minimum number of shots to wipe the unit is higher, and they're stronger against low AP weapons. A unit of flamers is essentially a unit of assault marines where everyone has better guns, super flamers, and a 3++ save (except two wounds with a 5++ is theoretically better than one wound with a 3++) while a unit of screamers are better than a unit of assault marines with AP2 frost blades, +1 attack, and a 3++.

      Now then, since those are essentially equivalent choices in terms of damage and durability, would you consider those assault marines well costed or undercosted if they cost the same as screamers or flamers? I'm pretty sure people would be even more up in arms about them. Screamers and flamers are no more glass than units of marines with power armour and storm shields. Face it, they are undercosted by a fair margin except against the rare null-zone librarian.

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    6. What a relief. All my assault squads are only good for trying to limit their deployment, but a tactical squad rapidfiring and shooting a flamer squad will kill 2 and wound 1. Huzzah! Only 13 more wounds!

      They are actually exactly as difficult to kill as a SM with boltguns, but way tougher versus AP3 and better.
      And of course, if they have any kind of cover, Nullzone only helps in melee. Which is a place you strictly don't want to be.
      Deepstrike is a problem for flamers. They will probably not flame anything the round they come in (although the full squad warpflaming will kill about 3 marines or a lot more Sv4 or worse)
      Screamers can turboboost 24" in the turn they deepstrike. Going down next to a friendly icon and then setting up for a charge is not that hard.

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  4. It looks like we're talking Warhammer Fantasy here - not 40k.

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  5. As long as the new Bloodthirster and Great Unclean One are among the "some" waiting to be released until summer.

    I'm wanting to have a complete army of one power or the other. Or just Undivided. But my decision is based on the models not rules since I prefer playing the roleplaying games; and they have their own rules anyway.

    "slant towards 40Kish models" has me worried though. I don't want helldrake, forge fiends and mauler fiend lookalikes.

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  6. TheDarkGeneral - Total rumors: (12 TRUE) / (64 FALSE) / (11 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/448304.page

    There is not enough salt in the sea to take with The DarkGenrals rumors/BS.

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    Replies
    1. Slander! I have proven him correct.

      http://branchbaboon.blogspot.com/2012/12/apocalypse-eventually.html

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    2. Bwah haha! bookmarked! :)

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  7. I wouldn't exactly call Daemons a "strong" codex. They have basically a single list (flamers/screamers) that's giving people serious trouble, and I think that's more so because most people are not familiar with the Daemon codex. Their deployment is too random to be truly competitive, and they basically have to rely on spamming screamers and flamers to win.

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    1. They are not THAT strong, people just go to a tournament with a balanced build for everything and the flamer/screamer combo is good against a jack-of-all trades list. A tournament ist just about building a balanced list, its about trying to build against what you expect to see or be the most difficult...

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    2. In other words, I agree with you lol.

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  8. The quote is most definitely talking about Fantasy, not 40k....spells and magic standards?

    While Flamers got a boost in 40k, they were already over-the-top in Fantasy, and got a decent nerf in that WD. I expect more nerfing to many Daemon units in Fantasy.

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  9. I hope they get released march/april at the earliest because I could not resist to buy new greater daemon models but I have so much to paint and build still...

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  10. Oh, boy, yet another shinenigan from Dark General.

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  11. Daemons were tough as nails when played well in 5th. Now they're just broken in multiple ways.

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  12. TDG has no friends

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    1. Not when it comes to rumors with his track record. He needs to get some tips from Hastings if he wants to be part of the rumors patrol because ATM no one should be taking his rumors seriously.

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    2. I think that's a little harsh, no-name neckbeard Anon. Do you expect rumors to be 100% accurate with the Hobbit license on the line for GW? Rumors will continue to be from the only "safe" point in the design process, which can only be expected to change frequently. This is why people with legitimate early information don't come forward with it anymore. People who've never contributed a damn thing to anything ever tend to screech the loudest when things don't turn out exactly to their unpaying expectations.

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  13. Flamer Warp Fire makes a joke of big tanks...I've lsot multiple Leman Russ to small squads of them round 1. A little TOO easy to glance vehicles (AV is worthless vs same)

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