Squats are Dead.

Normally before posting a piece like this, I would spend the time to research a few things this rumor mentions. However, these next couple days I just do not have the time to be able to do so. Its very difficult until I get settled in the new home to do the extra research that I normally like to do to complete a rumor. So I am going to just give it to you as is.

One thing to consider though is that taking this rumor as true, it is still possible for the Demuirg to be done in the future.

via Unforgiven from the Faeit 212 inbox
I've heard some info about squats and why they will never return. Not sure if this has been posted before, but the chap who came up with the squats fell out with games workshop and took the license with him, telling GW they can never use it again. There is another wargame who has the squat models in but I don't recall the name.

Sorry to all the people who want squats back, but I've been told it will never happen in 40k :(

123 Comments:

  1. Is that the way their licences work? i know that at the company i work for if you come up with anything while working for them the company owns the IP not me.

    it seems odd

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    Replies
    1. Agreed, highly doubt it. I've never heard of IP not being owned by the company and an employee?

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    2. Today yes, but back 20ish years when GW was still growing who knows.

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    3. Usually that is in your employee contract, GW could have asked him to sign such a thing giving them his IPs and he refused hence the reason they fell out. I don't know what happened but they would be his if no such agreement was made.

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    4. The same thing happened with the Chaos god Malal too though.

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    5. Look at George Lucas grabbing all the merchandising rights to SW. If the developer was smart enough, and GW short sighted enough, it is possible. Just not likely.

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    6. Happened with Spawn comics in the 90's (Neil Gaiman?) with a character, Cogliostro I think. Anywho, they still can't reprint the issues he was in so it clearly does happen...

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    7. No
      This rumor is 100% fals. Everything an employee does for the Company or in private during his Time working for them is owned by the Company!
      Even a contractor who sells his ideas to a Company can Not Claim them back unless agreed on in advanvce.
      The Story is just made up.
      If that means Squats are still possible is a nother Question.

      IMO One should Not belive Emails from Trolls!

      Delete
    8. Just to clarify for some people. This rumor could be true. Heres a bit of the legalize.
      http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-protect-intellectual-property-rights-29913.html

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    9. This rumor could go either way, IP laws vary from country to country, many companies tell their employees that they own all IP rights, and make them sign documents to that effect, but signing a document does not always make it so. Employees have the right to reclaim their IP in most cases (I've seen it done personally). to the anonymous above, spouting that "This rumor is 100% fals." is a sign of willful ignorance. only in the US would such a law be even remotely possible, (the mentioned story is from the UK in case you were so inclined to actually look into it rather than issue a blanket statement) and even then laws such as these, if they even exist, only have power because employees are too frightened of losing their jobs to fight for their IP rights.

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    10. melon head, good link, and it reinforces what i said above. but again, the link you posted relates to US law, and the rumor is from GW which is from the UK and therefore would be subject to UK law.

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    11. No Malal was a different case because wasn't he brought up in a book and not a codex?

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    12. In the old days of GW they used a TON of outside contractors. They were less than diligent about getting paperwork from those contractors.

      I rather doubt that this is the case though. During the ChapterHouse case, this was brought up. GW was able to prove they had the paperwork for all but one of their contractors. There was a blog post from a guy that worked with GW in the early days that knew that GW didn't give him paperwork for part of what he did for them. I don't think he worked on Squats though.

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    13. Depends on contract, if its "art" creation it belongs to "This guy" and is licensed to company.

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    14. @anon (Spawn reference): The character was Angela. And they eventually settled after 11 bitter years of court cases. There's irony in how a comic that was supposed to set artists/creators free to keep their IPs fell in popularity for doing just that.

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    15. I have heard a lot of things on this over the years about GW and it's ineptitude at the beginning with closing off IP laws to own the rights to its own products. Anyone remember Man o' War?

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  2. Very well could be Warpath from mantic games.
    http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Forge-Fathers.html
    Of course this is pure speculation.

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    1. It in fact is this... Thankyou for reminding me. The beared armoures guys are from the same artist who owns the IP to Squats.

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    2. Wait so the forgefathers... are squats? MIND BLOWN

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    3. The problem with that is that Bob Olley designed nearly all of the Squat models. He doesn't work for Mantic, and makes Space Dwarves of his own (called Scrunts).

      There's been speculation for years that GW doesn't have the rights to it's early models. I am starting to wonder if what really happened is that the molds got tired and the masters got bad enough that it wasn't worth fixing them. Also, there's the problem with GW's scale creep in some of the lines (ie Orks and Space Marines).

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    4. There are even upgraded Thudd guns on that site. Another missing piece from the olden days of 40k.

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    5. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/IMPERIAL-QUAD-LAUNCHER-THUDD-GUN.html

      Yeah, totally missing.

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  3. This is what happened with Malal, but I believe it was because GW hired freelancers.

    I'd take an Atlantic portion of salt with this one though. Someone just reset the Squat clock ;)

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  4. I am a law student in the USA. If they hired a freelancer, but didn't get an assignment of copyrights (which is more common than you think in smaller operations) then this very well could have happened. I've read a case or two with an almost exact fact pattern. If they don't contract that stuff out in advance, and just pay a guy to do something, it's assumed the guy keeps the creative rights except for the term of production.

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    Replies
    1. And GW's legal bookkeeping has always been a mess.

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    2. Again, ur an American law student, studying US law. GW are a British company and thus all IP is covered under UK law not US

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    3. no really? we have different laws? good grief, he is just saying he encountered similar stuff to what the rumor is in the US, not saying thats the absolute fact of the matter. But thanks for the obvious- we are in different countries and therefore have different laws...

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  5. Just call them Squatz with a Z give them slightly longer beards and your done, not the same name or model. Get them made get them shipped

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    Replies
    1. Better yet, just shave the beards...

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    2. So an army of tyrion lannisters. I can dig it.

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    3. Too bad tyrion has a beard in the books. Peter Dinklage asked that he not have the beard because he wore a beard for so many of his roles that he wanted to avoid typecasting.

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  6. From what I've learned over the years, GW didn't lock down individual artists or writers until much later in their history. As a result, some designs and even artwork belong to those rights holders and not GW. Kinda sad mismanagement of assets.

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    Replies
    1. The whole Blizzard/Starcraft legal war was about the same timeframe, iirc. Probably why the IP lawyers started getting brought in en mass.

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    2. From what I understand, Blizzard sends checks to GW for royalties. Esp for the Starcraft stuff.

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    3. Except that they don't and not letting Blizz finish WC as a WH game is one of the biggest goofs in video game history.

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    4. Yes, that's true. I heard from someone working at GW that they Sued Blizzard for stuff that appeared in Starcraft. Their Marines, the Zerg and other elements were too close to GW's IP. In those days Blizzard wasn't backed by the might of Activision. So I believed they settled and started paying royalties for that stuff. I am not sure that anything in Warcraft can be proven to be GW IP. Beyond Green skinned orcs, Blizzard did a pretty good job of scrubbing the Warhammer IP off of Warcraft.

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  7. From what I've read, this "assignment" issue (though not involving stunties) has come up in some of the Chapter House proceedings.

    That said, this isn't very useful information without at least the name of the freelancer in question.

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  8. I say that, while this rumour gives the wrong reasons, the Squats are not coming back on a tabletop.

    GW would never mention the Squats in the 6th Ed. rulebook if there was any chance they might be sued over the IP of the concept.

    Squats are mentionned both by their vernacular name "Squats" and latin/High Gothic name "Homo Sapiens Rotundus" on page 405 (1st column, 2nd paragraph) of the 6th Ed. rulebook.

    Hence I would argue that the Squats are clearly back, at least fluffwise.

    IMHO there is little to no chance they'll ever feature as anything more than a couple of units in an allies supplement.

    I believe the source of this rumour was misinformed.

    The argument mentioned in the rumour was used for Malal. However the Squats existed as far as late 2nd Edition, by which time I would argue GW had consolidated its IP.

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    Replies
    1. Also, is it really possible to Copywrite "Dwarves in Space"? If so, there's a bunch of different sculptors that are looking at a bunch of Lawsuits.

      Including Former GW Sculptor and designer of many of the original Squats Bob Olley. His Scrunts fit the Look and feel of the original Squats so closely that it's a wonder that GW hasn't sent him a C&D letter.

      Also if Mantic somehow owned the original IP, one would wonder why they aren't using it better. By releasing models that conform better to said IP, instead of using their own ideas. Also where the Mantic guys working at GW during the Rogue Trader days? Or where they hired later?

      Perhaps what is really going on is that GW is treadling lightly to make sure they don't step on other Space Dwarf IP.

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    2. GW dosnt mention squads in the 6th ed rulebook, they mention demiurg. Not only that but they are listed as abhuman so they are in the universe they just warrant anything more than ratlings.

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    3. See earlier poster:

      Squats are mentionned both by their vernacular name "Squats" and latin/High Gothic name "Homo Sapiens Rotundus" on page 405 (1st column, 2nd paragraph) of the 6th Ed. rulebook.

      They are mentioned explicitly as Squats

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  9. The problem with this, is that they're mentioned, only fleetingly, in the 6th edition rulebook. We've heard rumours about them being part of the Tau Empire, which I doubt... and if they were to make any sort of comeback it would possibly be in the rumoured allies book or white dwarf update. GW have said before the reason the squats have never made a comeback is because they couldn't find the right image for them. From the bikers to the 2nd fantasy dwarfs with boltguns, they were never happy with their aesthetics. I'm taking this rumour with a huge pinch of salt simply because of all the other rumours I've heard and the fact they're mentioned in the rulebook.

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    Replies
    1. I agree, previous statments made by Jervis Johnson in 2004 would contradict this. Well, the reason for killing off the squats, I mean. They are still very much dead.
      1d4chan, among others, has the entire article. Just look up squats there.
      As an aside, I doubt the concept of "space dwarf" can be easily copyrighted, and the demiurg would support this thought, too.

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    2. @vandalworks
      Squats in the Tau empire is a fact, there are (battlefleet gothic) models of demiurg (tau empire name for squats), and they're still current as far as I know!

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    3. Sorry but it's not a fact. The demiurg are very similar to the squats but GW have NEVER stated that they are in fact the squat by another name

      And as pointed out, fluff wise the squat have returned, in a fashion, as a type of abhuman like the ratings, ogryns and beastmen

      Also the demiurg are mentioned in the HH novels as a very ancient race (as old or older than the eldar) so sorry but logic and the balance of probabilities weighs in favour of 2 separate races

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    4. Squats have always been abhumans from the earliest days of Rogue Trader. While it was disappointing that GW choose to make them a flavor of Human Mutant. They did have a fun flavor.
      Though I was always hoping that a "Forgeworld" would be a HUGE hallowed out planetoid. Fitted with maneuver drives and whatever it takes to travel the warp. It was disappointing that a "forgeworld" was only a human manufacturing planet that churned out designs that had been made for 10k or more years.

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  10. This is obviously a lie.

    They are the next book in bound. They just dont want to raise suspicions.

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    1. It would be hilarious if the demiurg were in the Tau codex now (and they somehow miraculously jumped ahead of DA despite still being play tested) :P

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    2. I think you're right ill start my conversions now, so I get a jump on stuff.

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  11. Bob Olley maybe old as the internet this news.

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  12. see Scrunts being the main sculptor of the old range of Squats

    http://www.olleysarmies.co.uk/home.html

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    1. The funny thing being is that he releases a line, casts them up. When he sells though that cast. He sells the rights to some other company who never seems to actually cast the figs they have the rights to. Kind of a funny way of doing business if he does own the Squat IP. Also if he owns the Squat IP, why change the name and call them Scrunts?

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    2. If GW can still say Squats, maybe he owns the image and they own the name? Just a thought..,

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    3. IIRC the first Space Dwarfs shown in WD were modelled by the Perrys, the Squats done by Bob Olley (who BTW modelled the best Ogryns ever)were published in WD a couple of months later.

      http://www.solegends.com/citrt/rt03spacedwarfs.htm

      vs.

      http://www.solegends.com/ironclaw/ic501squats.htm

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    4. Best Ogryns and best Ogres too!

      Noone has been able to make anything as nice as Olley's Ogres and Ogryn.

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  13. Shame.

    I was so much looking forward to doing a 40K Hobbit.

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    1. 40k Hobbit = Ratling. Who can only be snipers due to their size. I guess they can carry sniper rifles longer than they are tall and fire them, but firing a las-rifle is beyond them for some reason.

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  14. Hi there!
    Me I remember I read this story, back in 2004, by Jervis Johnson, back when honesty was A Thing, it seems (I post only the important part):

    No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation.


    Bliss,
    Andrea Bonifazio

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    1. Interesting answer but I think we are dealing with GW becoming more Orwellian than the Imperium because I distinctly remember a FAQ page on the old GW site (Maybe 2001) which specifically answered a question about the Squats returning with "There are no Squats there never have been any Squats"

      As somebody who still has the 2nd edition Codsex Imperialis which listed the Squat army units AND was a great fan of the (since re-released) Inquisitor Draco trilogy by Ian Watosn featuring Grimm the Engineer, this came as something of a surprise.

      In the reprinted Draco novels Ian Watson explains how he was told that their homeworlds ha fallen to the Tyranids (impressive for a race we had been assured NEVER existed).

      I am afraid that whilst it may be fun to blame Matt Ward for GW's elastic grip on it's own continuity it long pre-dates his tenure.

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  15. The guy is mixing a lot of things up here, I think... he's alluding to Tuomas Pirinen who practically wrote up the extended background and rules for the Chaos Dwarfs for Warhammer Fantasy back in the 90s and when he parted ways with GW (though a lot more amicably than Andy Chambers and others did), the Chaos Dwarfs were quietly discontinued as an army of their own - but this wasn't because of any IP, but because no other designer was interested in CD enough ever since...

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    1. This is what I believe. I would say that right after the Malal affair, GW Legal would have renegotiated any and all contracts that had "open" IP issues and simply ditched anything then and there that could not be secured. GW would not dare to mention something in the core rulebook (which is rather difficult to recall as opposed to a expansion or Codex) of all things, if they were not 130% certain they held all the relevant IP. Key word here being "relevant".

      The IP's regarding the actual design of some Squat miniatures and models might still belong to outside artists, but that's not really an issue to begin with. Most of the Squat figures are 20+ years OOP (with the exception of the Epic vehicles, they're only like 15+ years OOP) and would NOT be rereleased in any case, ever. Even if the unthinkable happens and the little fellas make a comeback either as themselves and/or the Demiurg, either as allies to Tau and/or IG or full Codex, they will have a reimagined concept complete with brand new figures (which may or may not recycle individual component design from FB Dwarves).

      On the other hand, since the Squats are now re-retconned back into the fluff, I eagerly await the reintroduction of Chaos Squats, who were mentioned in Space Marine/Epic 2nd ed. rulebook to have been the builders and maintainers of Chaos Titans and Dreadn... erm, Helbrutes.

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    2. I could see chaos squats maybe happening one day, chaos dwarfs (/dwarves?) snuck back into fantasy with the hellcannon

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    3. indeed, if squats ever came back they'd proably be completely reinvented anyway

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    4. No, no, no..beards beer and lasguns 4evs.

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  16. This ain't news, it's been well-known for 10+ years.

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  17. Hmmm, heres a crazy thought; if you like squats and want to play them, you could buy the mantic ones (which look like decent models and reasonable prices) and just get on with it.
    Problem solved for everyone!

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    1. No, Mantic Space Dwarfs look terrible. Though they are reasonably priced.

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    2. I quite like them

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    3. Yeah the Mantic Forge Fathers are rather disappointing. Also the Scale is closer to 25mm than 28mm and look a bit funny next to "real" squats from back in the day.

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  18. Squats would have been either Brian Ansell or Rick Priestley.

    Not a bad thing if these rumours are true, Squats were a joke.

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    1. And Space High Elves aren't? Please.

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    2. But the space high elves actually grew and do their own thing. Space dwarves never got over the 'Dwarves in SPAAACE' phase...

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    3. Oh come on... A bunch of short, fat, hairy bikers wearing Iron Maiden T-shirts and riding around on three-wheeled choppers?

      They just didn't work in 40K.

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  19. Whatever the reason, they don't have a place in the 40k universe anyway. They were overly goofy, and there's no reasonable way they could have a standing army that's a threat to any of the other races.

    Nostalgia doesn't equate to "good for the game".

    If they did come back, I would hope for a Forgeworld treatment, a la Chaos Dwarves, so that they were a bit more realistic. As a side note, the Russian hats and curly beards were just plain stupid looking, but Forgeworld has made them believable.

    Still, they should be a sideshow, and not a full-blown army. There's nothing in the fluff to support that in 40k right now. Seeing as how GW owns the fluff, they can do what they want with it.

    If you want to play Dwarfs, play Fantasy.

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    1. Yeah! and all you Eldar/dark Eldar people can pack up and go home...And all you Ork players we know your just fantasy. You ain't foolin me. Hey necrons you'd better not be undead,...I got my eye on you too.....

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    2. I completely agree. Throwing dwarves into the 40K universe is just absurd. It's not like the Eldar where you can make them believable and work. Dwarves are, and always will be, a joke in science fiction and they have no place in the 40K universe.

      That's why we have Fantasy/

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  20. Well Bob Olley did a lot of the original sculpts for the Squats And he produces Squat style models still. http://www.olleysarmies.co.uk/home.html
    And Paul Bonner did most if not all of the artwork involving Squats back in the day.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That he was Rhasputine, that he was.

      That pic looks exactly like the old multi part plastic squats n guard. I loved those models. Wonder if they're sitting in the bottom of a cupboard somewhere? Well I'm goin on a hunt!

      LinZ

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  21. I didn't take time to read the full comments, but I'll drop this link here.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20060129002420/http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic/forum_b/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2532&whichpage=3

    Reading down this blog-post is a reply from Jervis Johnson, explaining the "Lack" of Squats in the 40k game.

    Personally, I would just use Fantasy Dwarf kits to recreate the "Look of Squats", whilst using the Space Marine or Imperial Guard codex to field them.

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    Replies
    1. I'm going to use my old Squats to do a Tau army when the new Tau book comes out. :)

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  22. Whether Squats come back or not really doesn't matter. It's been so long now that they are mostly a distant memory if at all for most 40K gamers. Squats were my first army and should they make a(n unlikely) comeback, then I'll use the mini's I kept from back then to play them. I don't think the OP is correct though as Squats were mentioned in the 6th Ed main rulebook and so are still part of the fluff.

    Were they a silly aspect to the setting? Perhaps, but certainly no more ridiculous than the silliness of Space Orks and Space Goblins or the utterly stupid looking tall-hat Space High Elves known as Eldar.

    I find it funny for most of the folks commenting here who probably weren't even in the hobby when Squats were around, to have such a negative opinion on them, yet not have the same or similar opinion on Orks or Eldar.

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  23. Squats are only dead if you lack the enthusiasm and imagination to do some proper modelling - and by that I mean converting and scratchbuilding, not just re-posing existing kits! There are still loads of Squats on eBay, both the plastic RTB models and the lead miniatures, and they are totally GW-legal. That is, they are official GW models and are therefore acceptable (and usually warmly welcomed) by local GW stores and tournaments. My 'local' GW is in fact Warhammer World in Nottingham (I'm lucky enough to live nearby to our spiritual home!) and the guys who work there regularly come over to look at my Squat Guard army. The vast majority of folks - GW employees and gamers - are very nostalgic for Squats. They are not, however, just a nostalgia trip - they are still a playable army, using the codex of your choice, for example Imperial Guard, vanilla Marines or even (don't tell the Ancestors) Orks. It really just depends on your imagination and how you would like the Squats portrayed. Loads of tanks? Use IG. All-bikers? Use Orks. Most reasonable players love counts-as armies, because honestly, aren't we all playing make-believe to a greater or lesser extent anyway?

    For those of a truly creative bent, the lack of a codex doesn't prevent you from scratchbuilding Land Trains, Overlords and the like, then creating your own codex entries. They may not tournament legal, but then 95% of players aren't interested in tournaments anyway! Personally I am a (admittedly poor) tournament player, but my conversions and scratchbuilt models have been warmly welcomed by the tournament community here in the UK - in fact my Squat army won Best Painted Army on Saturday at the Blog Wars tournament, which must show that folks still love to see Squats on the table.

    Personally, I would love to see Squats back in the fold with their own Codex - or even just as a couple of units in a possible Allies supplement. How likely is it? Fairly unlikely! But that won't stop

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    1. Dude you're hilarious the first few lines telling me squats are legal... In 6th? No they still have no codex and no one is letting you use the old one I don't care who it is. Sounds ridiculous is people are actually letting you play squats. So stupid.

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    2. Yeah he's right squats are not gaurd. And would be ratings if they were. A count as squat army is foolish. Squats were always better than gaurd imo.

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    3. This is not make believe...it's warhammer and I can feel the earth tremble before me when I play. Waste of money and time playing squats as orks... ffs orks and marines and gaurd? No they are all way too far out. IG MAYBE but they are tougher than gaurd so this plan is an epic fail

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    4. Props tho for taking the time to probably make some awesome models

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    5. Anonymous # 1 and 2, I think you missed the point.

      Running older, but still official, GW models using a modern codex - in my case Imperial Guard - is absolutely acceptable, certainly in the UK tournament scene. If the English and Scottish ETC team members are willing to play against it, and Warhammer World are willing to have it play on their hallowed tables, it's good enough for me!

      I certainly wouldn't condone using the old first or second edition army lists however - they are certainly out of date.

      Delete
  24. ...creative players re-imagining what Squats could be in the current era.

    Personally I'd like to see the rocker/biker image removed, with a bigger focus on the Squats' engineering abilities - there could be tunnelling machines, airships, plasma and energy weapons, and so on. The possibilities are endless - let's hope that p. 405 of the rulebook is just the start!

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  25. Here are a few preliminary pics of my Squat Guard army taken at Warhammer World recently. Stay tuned to the Claws & Fists blog over the next few days for more pics from last weekend's tournament...

    http://clawsandfists.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/squats-as-imperial-guard-first-pictures.html?m=1

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  26. I heard another rumour, probably false, but from an ex GW employee from the old days when everybody was told everything (like when it was still a company run by friends and not by bigwigs): "Someone spoke about bringing squats back, and (either Gav thorpe or alesso Cavatore) litterally flipped out."

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  27. This same 'rumor' has been around the block a few times with different aspects dropped from GW's games in place of 'squats'

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  28. Nonsense. Squats are explicitly mentioned in the 6th ed rulebook. How could that happen if GW didn't own them?

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  30. Some fella may own the rights to the name squats, but could never own the rights to little people. That is a totally absurd idea.

    The question is. Would little people view the word Squat the same way they view the word midget? Potentially creating bad publicity for GW. /shrug

    UmbraVinco

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  31. Not sure I really care. Seriously, how people people would pick up space dwarves anyway? Half their symbolic stuff has been taken by the space wolves.

    Tutovinco

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  32. This rumor is like 10 years old.

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  33. Clearly, Space Dwarves are out of the question. Because 40K is not supposed to be Space FB, and we don't have Space Empire, Space Witchhunters, Space Sisters of Sigmar (of Mordheim fame), Space Bretonnians, Space Chaos Warriors, Space Chaos Daemons, Space Orcs & Goblins, Space High Elves, Space Dark Elves, Space Wood Elves (Exodites), Space Vampire Counts (Blood Angels & co., basically), Space Tomb Kings, Space Lizardmen ('nids), Space Norse (Wolves)...

    Space Ogres, Space Halflings, Space Engineers and Space Wizards are of course part of Space Empire lists already (ie. ogryns, ratlings, techpriests, and psykers). Space Beastmen lack their own Codex list (Chaos cultists or IG Penal Legion being the options to represent them, unless you dig up the old Chapter Approved article from 4th ed. where they were rules for using various abhumans in an IG list.* Space Skaven do exist in the guise of the Hrud, but only pop up in the fluff occasionally, not having any models or rules.

    Curiously enough, Space Amazons - unless you count House Escher from Necromunda, SoB is pushing it because they are thematically worlds apart - are absent from 40K. But then again, Fantasy Tau don't exist either.

    ---

    *) The said CA also included rules for other "forgotten" stuff, just with "abhuman" names - Afriel Strain were clearly Commissar Training Squads (ATSKNF, every army in the game had them as Preferred Enemy), Subs were Penal Legions (as there were no "regular" Penal Legion rules in the Codex, only the Last Chancers) Slave Levies were clearly Squat-like (Slow and Purposeful etc.), and so forth.

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  34. Squats are so old and forgotten that in 2012, they've just garnered 72 post replies in 8 hours...

    Obviously someone still cares! Perhaps the GW Sales & Marketing team will notice the groundswell of popular opinion... and release another Power Armour / Marine codex.

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    1. Release a PA codex filled with Murderous Bearded Space Marines and I would be all over that, and buying up all the models I could find.

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  35. Fond memory of squats...

    First 40k game I ever played (Gen Con/Origins '88 and yes I'm old as dirt)...

    My squad of Space Orks (yeah SPACE Orks) squashed a bunch of them and knocked on the door of the primary objective just as the game ended >:D

    Sometimes I miss the random effects... lucky hit on their lascannon and chaos ensues >:D

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  36. Wow you guys need to get a life. Or a girl. It a game calm down

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. NO! 40k is life! Only people who don't play 40k are losers!

      Delete
  37. I live in Catalonia, ruled by Spanish laws, and as I work in a Broadcasting TV we must sign when we are contracted another paper that allows the company to own the property of our audiovisual creation. Anyway, I have seen coworkers use their right to use their production and even having signed the paper, they were allowed by law. Here, rights for things you do are totally yours even when you have signed a contract that explicitly tells you the rigths are for the company. You can sign, and then go to tribunals and they, using highest law, give you your rights. Just to show how the laws are different in different countries, here it is said that authoring rights are unrenounceable. Even when sold.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Ok. I'm to tired to read anything in the comment section. But does anyone remember the 5th god of chaos? Malal? The same story with him to.

    ReplyDelete
  39. After altering necrons to be good or at least neutral race, nothing will suprise me...
    Space dwarfs called demiurgs why not?
    And they have nice introduction in gothic, they likes mining, hates orks , trading with others and use lots of robots, I also read somewhere that ion cannon from tau is based on their technology which tau bought:)

    ReplyDelete
  40. Jervis Johnson has explicitly stated that are no, zero, nil plans to introduce Squats as anything more than a historic footnote in 40k and the Demiurg are unlikely to have a presence on the tabletop.

    So no official little fat 40k people for anyone.

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  41. If this was the case they would not of been mentioned in the 6th edition rulebook...

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  42. Just think of the siege engine you could add to your forces.

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  43. Definite fake or misinformation.
    NO WAY that such a big (and lets be honest greedy) company would be pulled on something like this, not in 2012 when even a bum sleeping in a box has his own lawyer. And every company that uses your brain to create something makes you sing a deal that everything you make for them is theirs. Even I working in some backwater TV station as animation maker had to sing such a thing. JUST NO WAY.
    Besides if it worked that way then the guy who invented eldars could fall out and take license, guys who invented space marines, next one with a falcon...

    ReplyDelete
  44. Can the people in this thread who aren't IP lawyers please be quiet and stop making themselves look ignorant?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And the people who are IP lawyers but not in the UK...

      Delete
  45. Not commenting on UK copyright law, but having studied some copyright law on the European mainland...

    The poster mentioning Spanish author rights actually brought forward the biggest difference between "continental" (Roman-German tradition, really) and "Anglo-American" copyright law: "continental" copyright law typically (at the minimum) gives the original author the unalienable right to be recognized as the author of the original work, even if he gave away all commercial rights. Also, a copyright cannot be born to a corporation in "continental" law, only to a human being, so what changes hands are only the rights to distribute the work and profit from it. Moreover, if it was a freelance work and not one made under employment contract, under employer supervision and/or guidance, then the author's rights may be even larger in "continental" practices, allowing derivative works and such, whereas GW for example requires that once a story is submitted to them, even if rejected, it may not be republished anywhere (even with all references to GW owned properties removed), and may not have been published anywhere previously either.

    The "author rights" were actually the reason why GW Legal went to the extremes of banning the fan film Damnatus: not that the Damnatus crew would have tried to profit from the film (they couldn't even according to German law), but out of the (not really believable) fear that because they would be recognized the authors of the film, their copyright could be expanded to cover everything shown in the film, including perhaps things that GW claims copyright and/or trademark on.

    So if in the past, GW had bought some work, especially from non-UK residents (as it is harder to apply UK legislation for them) and had not made a contract beforehand stating therein that the work is made for them and UK copyright law is to be followed, then there is a very real possibility that there might have been other cases besides Malal where the original author could have kept some of the rights.

    However, the very inclusion of the word "Squats" and their physical description tells that this is either a free-for-all concept (Space Dwarves, duh) or the name is firmly in GW hands (used commercially for years without anyone contesting it leads to a silent acceptance of it as a GW trademark in this context even without any formal registration), and as such, the original rumour is bogus.

    Also, what Jervis said in 2004 was very true for 2004: they did not plan anything at all for Squats or the Demiurg for the foreseeable future. However, that was almost a decade ago. At the time, they also said they did not want to make 40K "FB in space" and so came up with the Tau (well, wanting to attract manga & anime fans was another reason for that). Since then, they have reinvented the Necrons as Tomb Kings in space, and the more Hrud appearances there are the more apparently they are just Skaven in space. So who knows what they are really planning to do with spacemen of short stature, say, in five years' time?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Too much nerdrage and GWhate to wade through, but if someone posted this, sorry for the repost.

    The sculptor in question is Bob Olley, and he *STILL* makes the Squats, though they are called Scrunts now (possibly an agreement with GW, or the licensing bit - the name Squats is owned by GW?).

    Here's his page:
    http://www.olleysarmies.co.uk/home.html

    And yeah, he's still making the 1987-1990 era Ogryns... check his Gallery.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yea and we enter him site we are greeted by mini stolen from SW:Miniatures that is Mandalorian Basilisk...
      So the guy is no reliable to me in terms of licensing....

      Delete
    2. *his site sorry
      And gallery 8 and 9 thumbnails are also SW: Miniatures minis. Gallery 9 is the tarisian war droid and gallery 8 don' remember the name but played agains this one dozen of times.
      So my guess: no...he doesn't got licence for shit.

      Delete
  47. Thank god. This things were ridiculous, 40k is better off without them. I hope this is 100% true.

    ReplyDelete
  48. This is Hillarious as Squats are back as of 6th ed.

    http://i.imgur.com/WfOL7.jpg

    ReplyDelete

 
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