For two years now we have had no models for Tervigons and Tyrannofexes. As with any model we have no comparable size, and no model, people have custom built their own these last couple years, only to have the size of the official model end up much larger than many expected. Are these old models going to be legal in tournaments now?

Check out the size of that Tervigon.

Personally I love the new models. However it creates an issue for tournament players everywhere if there is a significant size difference in their model compared to the official one. While the new ones have had me considering to finally making a tyranid army, the players that have been playing them for the last couple years......... are crying foul. (At least several are). Tournament wise, a model cannot really be of a different size without being considered "modelling for an advantage".

I know that personally, if a model is of a different size, I tend to allow its play against me, however many would not. When I play, I just generally agree with the player that we accept the scale of their model to be what the official one is, regardless of its real scale. This can be difficult, but its all you have, and in this case it makes it a very difficult since there was no model for so long. Think of all the money going into peoples armies that custom built all these tervigons.

Personally if they were my models, I would have the blades out, cutting and re-designing them to fit the new scale. Not having a model is one of the big drawbacks of some units, and part of the reasons (at least for me), not starting certain armies. For example, I really want a Voidraven or two in my Dark Eldar army...... Cant, I have no real good reference as to the scale of a conversion, and hence it is one of the things bugging me about dark eldar at the moment. An unusable unit in the Arsenal of an army is rough.

So we come down to this. What are tyranid players going to be doing now? Technically their conversions are not board legal in a tournament. Lots of tyranid players are initially upset. I still really love the models, love the release, but I can feel the tyranid players pains that are going through this.

31 Comments:

  1. Shouldn't be too bad - older conversions can just be rebased on a tall scenic base to make up the height difference.

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  2. Just put it on a bigger base. Easy.

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  3. Even if my scratch built Tervigon is smaller than the new model, it's 100% GW parts (even the green stuff) and on a legal base for its unit type. Besides it's a Tervigon, I never got cover to begin with. It's like the old Terminator models, smaller than the current ones, still legal.

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  4. I'm sorry but I don't feel bad for those that decided to buy Carnifex and chop them up. Games Workshop is a business... And being a business, especially one to sell models, it makes sense that they would nerd the Carnifex and not sell the Tervigon model because they knew a lot of people would chop them up. Then others, like myself and a few of my buddies realized, GW has been screwing us for years so it would be No surprise if they launched a model out of No where that was not what the tervigon was shown as in the book...

    So what do we get? A smaller version of the Titan on a larger base. In a friendly game, proxies don't bother me. At my local hobby shop though, there are two types of gamers; the you play with legal models or don't play at all, and the casual gamers. So No I don't feel bad for those who spent loads converting instead of just taking a carnifex and saying its a tervigon. I will be buying three of the tervigons and letting my carnifex sit idol by as I wait for 6th.

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  5. I feel I have to throw in my two-pennethworth. I am so sick of hearing "uproar" from the tournament scene. As if that is what the hobby is for, I would wager that 80% of all games played are outside of a tournament setting and thus have not even a nodding acquaintence with thoughts of "legality" of a particular model. If you are a tournament gamer, if you have to live within a strict set of additional rules - mostly put in to stop people being douches (because we need to legislate that out of our fun now apparantly, people can't just choose not to be dicks) - then you KNOW about these rules and will just have to live within them. Whining and carrying on will not change that. I find that most of the negativity about this hobby on the internet stems from tournament issues.

    Lets focus instead on the important elements of this story:
    - There is finally a sweet Tervigon model
    - Bluddy hell it is huge
    - Tyranids are calling us.

    Here endeth the second pennethworth.

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    1. I whole heartedly agree.

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    2. True Spoken.

      Making a smaller Tervigon so that he can fit in cover? Ha, screw that, make it huge!

      And they did a good job in making it huge. No more Tervigon conversions that look like a pregnant carnifex.

      rejoice!

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    3. Like a lot of things people who are happy arent going to cause an uproar about the model being great,

      whereas the tournament scene have the proablems so cause uproar.

      Its a case of who shouts the loudest gets heard which can be applied to a hell of a lot of things within the hobby and life itself :P

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    4. I'd only disagree with one part of that, 80%? I'd wager that 99% of games are played outside of a tournament setting, even those that are playing in preparation for tourneys. You seem to have underestimated the number of people who play the game for what it is, a game, and just for fun. ;-)

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  6. You'd have to be a bit of a facist to not let someone use a converted Carnifex as a Tervigon. They're both monsterous creatures FFS.

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  7. Did I convert my own Tervigon? NO.
    Did I convert my own Tyrannofex? NO.
    Did I convert my own Swarmlord? NO.

    Why?

    Why waste time, money and effort on something which one day would be released?

    Am I going to convert a Harpie? NO.
    Am I going to convert a Myceptic Spore? NO.
    Am I going to convert a Parasite of Mortrex? NO.
    Am I going to convert a Doom of Malantai? NO.

    Why?

    Because one day they too will be released.

    I've no simpathy for anyone who complains because they couldn't be bothered to wait.

    Tournaments are boring! All rules and restrictions without the fun and joy this hobby is supposed to be about!

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    1. re: mycetic spore, i dunno, SM had droppods for a long time before they got a model

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    2. I totally agree with you on this one.

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  8. Live RevTibe and Anonymous said, wouldn't a fairly simple re-basing solve the issues for scratch-built scale? And I would have to say that people who scratch-build units that aren't available, but exist in the rules, should be applauded for showing a little bit of initiative and creativity. At the game shops I frequent, there are a lot of kickass scratch-built units, some with "legal" GW parts counts and some not. They all look cool, and they all work within the rules outside of official sanctioned tourneys.

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    1. Just rebasing is not enough. The new tervigon model is almost as tall as a Trygon and twice the width. People's converted Carnifexs are not nearly big enough and because this game uses TLoS, the size of the model is very important. Even in casual play I would frown upon the use of converted Carnifexs and demand that they be replaced with the legal model.

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  9. 'I've no simpathy for anyone who complains because they couldn't be bothered to wait.'

    No doubt thorson didn't play orks who had to wait more than a decade for a battlewagon to be released...

    I'd say send a pic to a T.O. if you're curious about legality in a tourney, but for regular casual games, the converted ones have worked so far so why stop using them now?

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    2. Reply removed. Name calling? Come on.
      There are forums where that accepted.

      I agree, asking a TO in person or with a picture is all it takes for tournament prep with models you want to be sure with.

      Casual games as long as both people agree, its all fun and games.

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    3. @Da Masta Cheef:

      Warboss, mekboy and Nobz mob on trukk. Mek has force field giving trukk a cover save.

      Trukker boyz behind a biker boyz smoke screen.

      Large mobz of boyz behind a grot bullet shield.

      4th Edition Orks, but Orks nontheless.

      I rest my case!

      I've also played Tyranids, they're my first army and are still a favourite. I found my problems were with Hormagaunts. They run up the battlefield, out of synapse range, get shot, flee into synapse range and rally, run up the battlefield, get shot....you get the idea.

      Thanks to 'instinctive behaviour FEED' that problem no longer exists. Trygon Primes are also helpful. Now I have a flying Tyrant in my sights. LUNCH TIME!

      Having a Termagant factory on the board will also be very helpful. I want 3.

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  10. This whole thing about the conversions and mixing an matching is garbage! The game is a HOBBY! I pay for the models so if I want to strap TNT on to a carnifex for the 4th of July why can't I? Then if I like the marshmellows in Lucky charms but I also enjoy Captain crunch why can't I mix the two to make something that appeals to me? Same with conversions. I should if I buy the parts with MY money and build one with MY time then who gives a crap?!

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    1. You can but its also a matter of the person you're playing against also saying... I paid for this model and i dont appreciate people who proxy when theres an actual model. As said, casual game sure. But there is a difference between a carnifex and the tervigon size wise.

      It's the same with a rhino and a land raider. They are separate vehicles.

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  11. But that's different if the actual model has been released then their just being cheap. I dnt min people proxying for models yet to be released. I also don't really get bothered though by proxies for released models as long as they at least vaguely resemble ie: No using guardsmen for trygon! Yes that did happen at my store too.

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  12. wraithguard and wraithstormers will be a joint plastic kit i am told the former are already known and the latter are wraiths with sword/ lance and pistol and are coming in september with other models such as arch autarch yulthein athruith of beil tan

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    1. Care to elaborate? If you have something you can always email at natfka@live.com

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  13. Well, it's a hard question. First, Nid players whine for two years that there are no models for the Tervigon. then, when it FINALLY arrives, they whine that it is WAY bigger then their custom biult Carnifex-converted models.
    As a Tyranid player who have been eagerly waiting for this moment to come to have official, legal model for the Tervigon, I say this.

    Many people put money, time and effort to create their OWN models, and they used those to play as there were no official models awailable. That was THEIR choice. There are definitely some Tyranid players like me who CHOOSE not to build these units, not to proxy these units, not to use these units, not to ever use the advantages these units provide. That was OUR choice. Since TLoS, home-build models were always an issue on ANY tournament as there have never been two Tervigons that were the same size - so yes, modelling for advantage could kick in - not because of deliberate action but because of lack of information on how big these bugs are supposed to be.

    Now, after two long years, we have the official models. The choices are
    * someone has built a custom model - either they rebuild it, or buy the new one.
    * those who do not have the official, will either buy it, or not. It's their choice.
    We, who waited, respect the effort of those who built their own models. But please, respect our patience and try to be happy for us that we have what we waited for. We will put money and effort info buying and building these models... are we worse because we wanted to wait for the official model and not built our own?

    Everyone made their choice. Some enjoyed the benefits of these models for two years, some will start to explore new army build from now on.

    But sad fact is the fact, you cannot play football with a ball you made at home saying "it's like the original, a bit smaller, a bit more rectangular, but it's almost like the real thing. Matter of fact is, when there are standards, you either cope with them, or do not play. You cannot enter a Formula-1 competition with a stock car, even if it was built for racing, regardless of the fact that both are cars.

    So yes, there were two years when custom-built Tervigons ruled. Now, it's official model time. I myself put time and effort to make a Winged Tyrant, had to make it 2 times because the first one went bad, but still I am happy that I have the possibility to have an official model. I myself put time and effort and money into 3rd party boneswords and lash whips, yet I'm happy that I have the chance to have the official thing.

    On the other hand, I've never seen any Marine army that has home-built Land Raiders, Terminators, etc. (Orkz do have home-build proxy models, I've seen horrifying conversions of Battlewagon at local tourneys, that had nothing to do with the actual model. But Orkz are Orkz, for some reason, people are generally more kind with homemade Ork conversions.)

    So bottom line, I think all Nidz players - regardless if they have converted anything or nor - should be happy because of the fact that GW at least cared for us and maybe- just maybe - Codex Tyrands will live another edition and will make our bugs actually playable again.

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  14. Yeah tyranid players always find something to whine about.

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  15. Honestly to me it isn't a matter of base change because anyone that actually took the time to pay attention to the tyranid codex would notices that:

    1 wound models = 25 mm base
    2-3 wound models = 40mm base
    4 wound models = MC base
    6 wound models = large oval base.

    That is rather consistent in the codex.

    Regardless of them being an MC and no defined base size before.. It was consistent for what was in existence for the models.


    Also when Creating my models I did take a look at the size as compared to the pictures. They are both Much larger then a standard carnifex or a tyrant so I made them as such.

    Personally I bought the Chapterhouse kits... but not only did I purchase those kits... I also modified the carnifex legs making them taller and larger.. very few things could actually stand in front of them and give them cover (usually a trygon).

    I say to tyranid players... it's a hobby. If you are going to put effort into something in this game and then they later write it out of the codex, or change the size of it... while it kind of sucks... it is never unexpected and you have to be prepared for change.

    Now if you want to make your own custom model... you at least have a design to base your models on.

    Whether you cut your model up and adjust it.. or get the actual model now created you have something to work with and we finally have an official model from GW.

    I am excited for this kit.

    What I am not excited about is the fact that Of all the actual models being released for this Tyranid 2nd wave (2 years after the codex has been out mind you), we only get 1 Kit of "2 models" that we don't already have.

    Yet we are still missing:
    -Doom of Malan'tai
    -Tyranid Prime
    -Actual Ymgarl stealers*
    -Parasite of Mortrex
    -Shrikes
    -Sky Lasher Swarms
    -Mycetic Spores


    *If they are going to do something other then the genestealer head swap. who knows


    This models are what I wish we would have seen more of.

    I am thankful for the Hive Tyrant going to Plastic as I love Plastic models out of the options we have now to me they are the best.

    Biovores were already way too expensive before the change and now they are $40+ per model... That is outrageous.

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  16. Also to note. I LOVE the Tervigon and the Tfex models. I think they are awesome.

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  17. Although there are certain issues with the Tervigon, noone seems to see the flaws with the plastic Tyrant kit.
    * no MC Devourers - buy a Carnifex, it has them.
    * no MC Deathspitters - no problem, noose uses them, but Carnifex has them
    * no Armoures Shell - Carnifex has it, buy one
    * not any sort of WYSIWYG indication of thorax-mounted weapon options

    * the wings take the upper hand slots, so we cannot make a legal Flyrant (2x TL MC Devourers, Wings) with the official model. Unless we put weapons... to the leg slots...
    * similarily, you cannot give any shooting weapons AND LW / BS to the Flyrant as shown above.

    So, either use the official model and unable to equip it properly, or stick to the Balrog-wing equipped converted one saying tail and wings are not part of LoS so size does not really matter.
    I think this is a problem.

    Besides, food for thought: BRB states that a model's body is it's head, torso, arms and legs. One simple question: what about jetbikes? :) Is the bike considered "decorative element"? : (Of course I know it's considered body, but taking RAW seriously, one could argue as the biker has body and the bike don't... just a little fun fact :)

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