Here is the final QnA compilation broken down once again for easier reading and less searching through all the material. Its late and now its my turn to sleep.


General
everything in the codex either had models or will have by the time the codex hits (from the current advance orders).

Veteran of the Long War is a chaos USR that gives Hatred: Space Marines this is defined as ALL space marine books e.g. SW, BA, GK, etc.

Single models carry the icon. So, yes, they can be sniped.

Icons require the specific Marks of Chaos

Lots of units can take gift of mutation for 10pts which allows a Boon table roll at the start of the game.

As far as I saw the only FOC manipulation is moving some of the elites to troops using marks for their relative gods

Sadly no legion material that I saw. You can theme things around particular gods if you like but otherwise it's only paint that'll set legions apart. Heresy books from FW do more than enough in that department though.

HQ
Marks for lords unlock the relevant elites to be troops e.g. khorne = berserkers.
Chaos Lords
Can chose from most sections of the wargear chart and can be a terminator. Main thing is that giving him a mark unlocks the elites for that particular god (e.g. noise marines for Slaanesh) as troops.

Then the lords can take a mark to make stuff troops if you don't want an SC to do the same. Nothing saying you can't have 2 lords with 2 different marks. Finally sorcerer with mark of tzeentch makes 1ks troops.

Dark Apostle
The Dark Apostle allows units within 6" to use his leadership of 10.
FOC is HQ no way to become elite, 105pts, 
no sign of another model so only one model pose for this guy
cannot take terminator armour

Daemon Princes
WS9 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I8 A5 Ld9 5++ save that's before any upgrades of course.
There is a special table for Daemon Princes and what they get for their Marks:
Khorne - Furious Charge, Hatred (Daemons of Slaanesh)
Tzeentch - Reroll saving throw results of 1, Hatred (Daemons of Nurgle)
Nurgle - Shrouded, Slow and Purposeful, Hatred (Daemons of Tzeentch)
Slaanesh - Fleet, Rending, Run an Additional 3", Hatred (Daemons of Khorne)
Daemon princes are WS9 now at least so normal troops will be needing 5s in combat.
Prince doesn't use icons as far as I can tell. You can pick which god he belongs to and make him upto mastery level 3 psyker.

Sorcerors
Generate powers for free (Bio,Pyro,Telepathy). Don't think mark makes them high mastery. Can pay 25pts per level to make a sorcerer upto ML3.

Yes, they start at 60pts and can take wargear from a lot of different sections of the list. Can pay 25pts per level to increase their mastery rating. They can be terminators and take bio/pyro/telepathy as standard. Can take chaos rewards & artefacts.

sorcerer with mark of tzeentch makes 1ks troops.

Ahriman
Comes with boltgun with inferno bolts
His warlord trait allows D3 INFANTRY units to infiltrate.

Kharne
160pts, fearless, furious charge, mark of khorne

Abbadon
265pts. Chosen can be taken as troops. Can choose to either use Drach'nyen at +1S AP3 or Talon at x2S AP2 (both at full initiative). Gives preferred enemy space marines to every unit in 12"

Lucius the Eternal
Similar stuff. Lash reduces attacks and armour causes wounds when he passes saves. Gets a bonus in challenges that I can't remember. Statline is the same. Noise marines are troops in his army.

Elite 
Beserkers
Can all take a chain axe for +2pts. Champion can take anything from Melee or Ranged wargear list plus gift of mutation.
Squad can have Veterans of the Long War which is hatred of all marines (including GK, BA, SW, etc)
Fearless, Furious Charge and Mark of Khorne (Counter Attack and Rage)
chain axes are AP4. 
2 plasma pistols as before and still 15pts each.

Terminators
Usual options and 31pts base cost each.

Hellbrutes
When a hellbrute loses a hull point you roll a D3 and have to try and direct the effects to the model that caused the damage.

 Roll a D3 in next movement phase. 1 = immobilised (temporary) but fire twice at unit that caused damage, 2 = recovers crew shaken/stunned then has Rage, 3 = recovers shake/stun and gets fleet & rage and must run if not within 12" of an enemy

Noise Marines
Noise Marines are 95pts for 4 plus champ then 17pts each.
Fabius has FNP, Rod inflicts Instant Death, Needler is Ass 5 poisoned 2+. Think he's 165pts
Sonic Blaster: 24" S4 AP5 Salvo 2/3, Ignore Cover

Blastmaster: Same as before but adds Ignore Cover

Plague Marines
1) 120pts then 24 each
2) 90pts then 18pts. Too many options to list
Plague Marines have feel no pain

Thousand Sons
They're 150pts for 4 + sorcerer then 23pts each (up to 15 more). Sorcerer can take gift of mutation (allows boon table roll at start of game)

Possessed
Possessed are 26pts each in squads of upto 20, Daemon (5++ save), fearless, fleet, 2 attacls base. and roll on D3 table 1. re-roll to wound, 2. ap3 attacks, 3. +1 attacks and initiative.

Chosen
2 base attacks and access to a lot of stuff

Mutilators
55pts each and can be in units of 3 maximum. Can take one of the marks of chaos. They're like obliterators but CC versions. 2 wounds, 2 base attacks, 2+ save and can deep strike.
Can chose from pair of chainfists, lightning claws, power axes, power mauls and power swords but not the same twice in a row.

Troops
Cultists
50 for first 10 and then 4 pts each for another 25 giving you 35 max in total.
50 points for 9 + champ and then 4pts for upto 25 more. One in every 10 can take flamer/stubber and champ can have a shot gun. Can take one of the four marks at 1 or 2 pts per model.

All can swap pistol for autogun for a point each. Then 1 in 10 can take heavy stubber/flamer and finally champ can have a shotgun.

All cultists in a Typhus army can be zombies. Get fearless, FNP and S&P. Can't take any options and only count as having a single CC weapon.

cultists can take a mark but not icons. Plague zombies are just special cultists so I would say they're scoring. With FNP and Fearless they'll be hard to shift from an objective in cover too!

Chaos Space Marines
Basic loadout is cheap. Tons of options and can take mark/icon from all 4 gods. Cult marines are all elites and have mark of their appropriate god. Some can take icons.

they only got only a boltgun and bolt pistol
these guys have are 13pts each but 15 if you want CC weapon for the extra attack whilst keeping the bolter.

Fast Attack
Heldrake
A Rule is called Meteoric Descent though and can take hades autocannon or baleflamer.
Hades is 4 shots at S8 AP4 though.

Chaos Bikes
70pts for 2 plus champ then 20 each
not sure where this goes......
there are god specific steeds than give different bonuses e.g. +2 wounds, +1 attack for Nurgle one

Warp Talons
Warp Talons seem like they'll be pretty good as they get a 5++ I think.
160pts for 4 plus champ then 30 each. Champ can take 2 gifts of mutation. All have a pair of lightning claws. Can't take icons only marks. Can't change weapons. Daemons rule gives them a 5++ save though so they're 3+/5++

Raptors
can take both marks and their appropriate icons.

Heavy Support
Havocs
Havocs 75pts for 4 + asp champ, weapons are more reasonably priced FLAKK MISSILES ARE 10PTS PER MODEL AND CAN BE TAKEN WITH FRAG AND KRAK

Obliterators
Oblits are 70pts
 70 each (i.e. 5pts cheaper). Unit size of 3. Lose 1pt of Ld but otherwise same stats. Can take a mark.

Forgefiend
can basically have two hades or two ectoplasma cannons (S8 AP2 Blast) - 25 points more if you want two ecto cannons

Land Raider
Land raider is pretty much unchanged from previous book but is 230pts

Vehicles
Only vehicle upgrades I saw were the ones already published in WD.


223 Comments:

  1. Any confirmation about Thousand Sons being Relentless/SnP if sorceror is alive/dead?

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    Replies
    1. Very nice compilation by the way! :)

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    2. there are a few copy and past errors, but I'll chalk that up to fatigue.

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    3. "Can choose to either use Drach'nyen at +1S AP3 or Talon at x2S AP2.."

      So there's absolutely no reason to use Drach'nyen then. His Talon is superior in every way possible, as he has no Initiative penalty for using it.

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    4. He may not get the Daemon Weapon bonus attacks with the Talon.

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    5. xtra attacks. Drach'nyen has d6 attacks. Its situational, and I agree highly likely to use the PF more often, but upto 9 att at ap3 IS better than 3 at ap2

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    6. Wasn't it the Drach'nyen as AP2 and the Talon as AP3? Pretty sure that is what I saw on the scan, but I can't find it anymore.

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    7. They've got it wrong. The Talon is AP3, and Drachnyen AP2. Hence, Drachnyen is what you use against Terminators. The Talon is what you use against everything that doesn't have a +2 save.

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    8. Drach = S +1, AP 2 Melee, demon weapon, specialist

      Talon = S x2, AP3 Melee, shred, specialist

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    9. http://images.4chan.org/tg/src/1348423039726.jpg

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    10. http://images.4chan.org/tg/src/1348423039726.jpg


      New Chaos codex

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    11. Mr. Anonymous... THANK YOU FOR THE PIC! Can you please attach more? PLEASE!

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  2. Well just had a sigh of relief that plague marines still have fnp

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  3. I think the Mutilator price is wrong, the image in the White Dwarf shows they are 35, but it is fair enough that some of the information might have been mixed up a bit.
    Great read, thanks a bunch to both Naftka and the source for their great work!

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    Replies
    1. Hey Naftka, are you sure Abaddon makes Plague Marines troops and not Chosen ;) Haha.

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    2. No the whitedawrf shows they are 55 that is correct.

      also Abbadons AP values are around the wrong way, the sword is AP2 the talon is AP3

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    3. Talon is a lightning claw, but Horus Heresy book gives it AP2... Would be fun if they lined up ruleswise but then it loses x2 strength

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    4. Talon: x2S, AP3 SHRED

      FROM THE CODEX

      Sword: +1S AP2 Daemon weapon

      both have specialist weapon and melee

      Im reading the page right NOW

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  4. Replies
    1. I had a read of the codex at games day and the defiled is 195 points basic with 4 hull points and 12 front armour. Seems very expensive IMO.

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    2. Guess he'll be in the corner playing cards with the Monolith :p

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    3. Also has It Will Not Die and a 5++ save.

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    4. Haha wow, take a mediocre unit and utterly ruin it. Sadly I'm cheap so my forge-spam list will still rock one, means I only need to buy 2 forge fiends and the dragon to get my list together.

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  5. Many thanks for the infos.
    20 Points for bikers looks very interesting, I'll have to paint them after so many years XD

    55 points for mutilators is waaaaay too much, hope there were some mixing and they are 35. At 55, I think we won't see much of these on the field (and the minis won't help...)

    No confirmation for 17 pts raptors?

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    Replies
    1. The WD definitely seems to say they are 35 each, it is probably just a mistranslation. At 35, they are good. At 55, they are too expensive.

      Given Bikes had their cost reduced by 13 points, I think it is fair to say Raptors would be about 16-17 points each now.

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    2. They are 55pts according to the book itself, I assure you.

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    3. They are pointless, then... Too bad, but the profile reflects the minis I guess ;)

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    4. um for less than 6 they can be T5 2W and will brutalize things with 3-4 attacks each.....

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    5. There's always hemming and hawing about units before a codex drops. Then there will be the second wave of complaints after we get the book. Over time, units will be used and evaluated for their battlefield performance, not their book entry. It will all be OK.

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    6. The units I thought were shit when the 4th edd book came out are still shit now at its death bed. Some units are up in the air at the moment, but I think we all can see the obvious winners and losers of this edition already...kinda like how only fools supported the use of spawn in the FA slot when the book first dropped. Now their are lots of units that may surprise us, but in a game of numbers only idiots back units that just don't add up (in this case literally). FOr instance the defiler looks all but unplayable as you can tack all the bells and do dads you want on a unit, but doing so reduces its ability to return on the points you invested in it and a dreadnought with a single pie plate weapon is not worth 190pts+ hell they could give it a constant 4+inv save and I still wouldn't take it just because of the fact it will still die and accomplish next to nothing in most games. Its like people are taking some sort of crazy pills that make them forget that AV 12 is still av twelve and as such it will still go down like a bitch turn one to any competent ranged army. Whats that you have a 5+ inv save and can regen str points well that's nice but my 4 laz cannons just caused 2 pens have a fun time exploding!

      Simple logic really. Paying more for a unit that got a minor reliance boast for 50 points from a unit that was already meh in damage out put to begin with is not a sensible change. Think about it this way what would you rather take in a game a 350pts land raider with only HBs that comes with a constant 3+inv save. Or a av12 vehicles that had a heavy 4 str 10 gun for 150pts?

      Still I am loving the price point changes on noise marines, bikes, raptors ect. Now these units reflect their tactical usefulness. (Example of this concept can be seen in any edition. For instance when I first saw that bikes where 33pts a pop when 4th hit I could tell right away that they would become a fetish unit for casual gamers, while DP's for just over 100pts was a bargain).

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  6. the CCW as an option for CSMs is nice. CSMs are looking like they'll be viable as both a spam army or a small elite army.

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  7. who gets to use thunder hammers?

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    Replies
    1. So far, we know the Helbrute does, but not sure about anyone else.

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  8. ZOMBIES!!!!! I'm thinking buying the zombies from the Vampire Counts and using them in a Typhus army. I would have to replace the close combat weapon with something a little more futuristic, but I think it can be done :) So excited for this codex!

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  9. "Plague Marines:
    1) 120pts then 24 each
    2) Troops when you take abaddon, 90pts then 18pts. Too many options to list
    Plague Marines have feel no pain"

    Presume point 2 is a typo, and should be under Chosen rather than Abaddon?

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  10. I wonder if Berserk Champion could take a Juggernaut...

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    1. Don't know about that, but it seems as if it was hinted that bikers could be upgraded to ride mounts appropriate to their mark. I hope this is true. I really really want to bring a juggernaut lord, but as it stands now, there is no place to put him!

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  11. From the looks of the Forgefiend I would guess that he gets 3 Ecto Cannons (2 arms, 1 in mouth).

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    Replies
    1. on the topic of forgefiends does anyone know what the hades cannon does?

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    2. Hades Autocannon

      Range: 36"
      S8 AP4
      4 Shots

      Two Hades Autocannons on one Forgefiend is essentially the equivalent of two Psyflemen Dreadnoughts, though of course they aren't twin-linked and the FF is only BS3. But you will average the same number of hits, and can possibly hit with many more.

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    3. 4 shots, S8 AP4 pinning for hades cannon

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    4. Yes my bad, they are Pinning as well. Dirty.

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    5. Riflemen and Forgefiend w/ hades do average almost the same number of hits, but the S.D and variance of the forgefiend is much higher - they have the potential to get more hits, but by the same token, they also have the potential to fluff their rolls! Would say a psyfleman is more reliable at shooting, although it doesn't have that 5+ invun and IWND!

      Not sure what I think of the Forgefiends, if the hades autocannon one is a similar amount of points to the maulerfiend or a psyfleman (about 135) they should be worth it, but after the WD saying that the triple ectoplasma forgefiend is 200 points, I have my doubts!

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    6. 8 S8 AP4 shots at BS3 is pretty meh. Against light-medium vehicles its probably not bad, but against Infantry its just going to suck, ala Dakkapred Syndrome, where even though you chuck out a ton of high strength shots, you're still killing only 1-2 Marines a turn, which is absolutely abysmal for something I expect to be in the 175-200+ points range.

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    7. Math is hard.... 8 shots at BS 3 = 4 hits.

      4 TL Shots at BS 4 = 3.52 hits.

      How you figure 1 of the fiends is equal to 2 psyflemen is beyond me.

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    8. I think he was just saying that they are S8 autocannons and have 8 shots (much like 2 psyflemen). Besides them both being walkers, that's where the similarities end (BS 4, twin-linked).

      Also this is intended to wreck light vehicles not mow down troops, that's what the ectoplasma cannons are attempting to do.

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    9. I was quite obviously talking about how you put out twice the amount of shots. That was it, and it was quite obvious too. I even said how it will average the same number of hits but with a greater deviation on its rolls - potentially a lot more, potentially less.
      Thanks a bunch though for taking the time to read my post.

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    10. Think beyond shooting at marines. In a 2K game against Necrons 2 weeks ago, my 3 psyflemen dreads took out 5 out of 6 Wraiths on turn 1, neutralizing that very real threat to my DragoWing. A few turns later 1 of the dreads took out the Necrons flyer the turn it came in. If Defilers aren't worth their points, then I'm seriously considering 2 FFs with hades auto cannons to shoot the hell out of threats like that. Just one possible scenario, but something to consider beyond just shooting at marines. Also consider taking out light vehicles regularly and certainly, which is good against a lot of other armies (DE, rhinos, razorbacks...). Just saying'...

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  12. "not sure where this goes......
    there are god specific steeds than give different bonuses e.g. +2 wounds, +1 attack for Nurgle one"
    This is probably from wargear section of Chaos rewards

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  13. I really hope Kharne gains something like everyone else did. I hope the rumor of him getting extra attacks for models killed is true and what is the stats on his weapon. If his weapon becomes ap3 or stays unwieldy, then he'll stay one of the worst characters in the game since it looks like he's staying 3+.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He's hardly one of the worst characters in the game. In 5th Edition, he was obviously boss. In the new rules, if he is AP3 but strikes at Initiative order, that is great.

      He's cheap, remember, and he will butcher virtually entire squads of marines on the charge. He has 7 attacks on the charge, 4 base, +1 for two CCWs, +2 for rage. He hits everything on 2s, and he will kill marines on 2s with Furious Charge. Hardly a bad character.

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    2. He used to have 7 on the charge AND be left with 6 after that - so far he's just lost an attack.

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    3. Wasn't saying he'd gained anything. But he's still a killing machine. Not everyone is amazing against Terminators, or needs to be. And if he does generate additional attacks for every model he kills, even better! If that is the case, he will wipe out entire non-terminator armoured squads in one round on the charge - tell me how many single models can do that for 160 points? Not many.

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    4. The biggest problem Kharn has right now is Unwieldy though. He doesn't strike on initiative so any champion with a power weapon will beat him in a challenge.

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    5. That is in the old rules. According to most rumours, he is now AP3 striking at initiative order. Hence why the rumours about generating extra attacks say his bonus attacks are resolved at I1 - they are done after his normal attacks.

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  14. Hey there answers are fab but only one question I would like answered is the can chosen be upgraded to terminator armour? Cheers guys for great work

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    Replies
    1. Lol are you retarded? There has been oodles of rumours stating Chaos Terminators in the next Codex can be upgraded to Chosen Termies.

      That is, in essence, upgrading Chosen with Terminator armour, only the inverse. The result is still the same.

      Furthermore there's stuff floating around about the Chosen Termies being 2 wounds. Looks like they're giving Paladins to another army, just under a different name.

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    2. If chosen termites get 2 wounds each, and Abaddon unlocks them as troops... Oooooo, yummy.... :-)

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    3. (Damn iPad... That's supposed to be "termies", not termites... Sorry...).

      Sounds like I'm going to spend a lot of time modeling possible list in Excel and hoping folks will want to play big games... LOL!

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  15. What are the exact options for the khorne berzerkers, only the ap4 axes? if my eyes are working i saw a profile of 1 attack?? please give more info about ze good ol' zerkers

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    Replies
    1. They have 1 attack base, yes, but they have 2 CCWs so they effectively have 2 base. They have Rage and Counter-Attack, so they have 4 on the charge like they used to, and 3 if they are charged. Like Kharn, they have lost an attack after that first round of combat. They also still have Furious Charge.

      However, look at how much cheaper they are. They used to be 21 points a model. Now they are 15 points a model for one less attack. And for 2 points a model, you can give them AP4 weapons which will absolutely butcher any non-powered armoured units in the game.

      Big plus for Berzerkers with the new rules.

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    2. Yeah, they lost an attack but Mark of Khorne gives Rage so all in all, when you charge, you still have 4 attacks per guy. But the next rounds will be worse ...

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    3. so no heavy chainswords, no 2hand chainaxes, nothing from the glimpse of the 3rd edition armoury, that's sad. It could be good to show the chaos CC specialists some more love, especially now that the rules about those exist.

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    4. Anyone else find it odd that having the Icon of Rage will give rerolls to charge distance, but freaking Khorne Berzerkers don't seem to have this same capability? That alone would make Berzerkers a lot more reliable as assault troops in a normally non-assault edition.

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    5. Noone said they can't take the icon as well ;) (noone said they can, though)

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    6. @Ondskapt

      they would have 5 attacks on the charge.
      1 base + 1 pistol/close combat weapon + 2 for rage & +1 for charging = 5 attacks

      4 attacks when charged :)
      even better

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    7. Rage replaces your usual +1 attack on the charge mate, it isn't in addition. Instead of +1, you get +2.

      Also, who says that the Berzerkers don't come with the Icon of Rage?

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    8. Rage replaces the normal +1 you get from charging. That would be so stupid other wise

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  16. Any word on hades cannon or ecto cannon on predators?

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    Replies
    1. I'll ectoplasm all over the place if they can.

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    2. I seriously doubt they will be these options, as it would greatly decrease the fiends attractiveness!

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    3. predator main weapon should be kinda better than hand held autocannon. turret hades would be pretty nice. i would like that. ofcourse with no cost increase. then i would pick cheap hades pattern preds and fire on the move!
      optimum target, maximum efect!

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  17. "there are god specific steeds than give different bonuses e.g. +2 wounds, +1 attack for Nurgle one"

    Wait, what? Where was this stated in the Q&A? Or is it from another source?

    If it's true, does it mean actual Daemonic Steeds (Juggernauts, etc.) or does it mean that the bike "steed" confers different bonuses depending on who is riding it?

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    Replies
    1. Daemonic steeds would be awesome. Can anyone in-the-know comment on this.

      If it means daemonic steed we should see a lot of different statlines and rules within that entry since riding a steed will (probably) make the unit cavalery (slaansh and khorne) or jump infantry (tzeentch) or just plain infantry (nurgle).

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    2. Chaos Rewards Table:

      Aura of the Dark Gods - 5+ Invuln
      Combat Familiar - 2 Additional S4, AP - Attacks
      Juggernaut of Khorne - +1T, +1W, +1A, Change unit type to Cavalry
      Disc of Tzeentch - +1A unit type is Jetbike
      Palanquin of Nurgle - +2W, +1A, Very Bulky
      Steed of Slaanesh - +1A, +3" to Run Moves, Acute Senses, Outflank, change to Cavalry
      Gift of Mutation - Before deployment, roll on Boon table
      Ichor Blood - Unit that inflicts unsaved wounds on a model with Ichor Blood immediately takes a S3, Ap4 Hit
      Spell Familiar - Reroll failed psychic tests

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  18. Sorry for lame question but what is USR??

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  19. Just want to say I love that bikes got cheaper. I often use them because I have a lord on bike conversion.

    Currently 3 bikes (3x33) + champion(15) upgrade is 114 points.

    New codex it's 70 points.

    Massive change right there.

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    Replies
    1. If the price is true im getting more bikes (got 4 now and they have been gathering dust for a long time).

      I hope its true cause bikes could be awesome.

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    2. For some reason, 20 point bikes was my only nerdrage moment as a non-CSM player.

      Still, this is awesome. I am not sure if I have ever seen someone use a Chaos Bike before.

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    3. I've used them a number of times. Before, one of the main uses was as a fast moving icon for daemon summoning, but that's not an issue now.

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    4. I've been using them since 6ed no longer negates toughness value. I run them with icon nurgle for that lovely T6!

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    5. I am thinking of running some bikes as well since the points are rumored to make them so much cheaper...Disc Riders of Tzeench anyone? That is how I will convert them =).
      -Yriel

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  20. Are there any options for Havocs and Dreadnoughts, using blastmasters?

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  21. Thanks for the compilation!

    As TastyTaste put it over on BoK: nobody will ever be happy with this codex, as the wishlisting has grown too strong for that... but what I read here is fine enough for "me" and as I like enough of the models... guess my next army will take me into chaos, then...

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    Replies
    1. I'm beyond happy. and I've only seen 9-10 pages!

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    2. I will be happy if everything is priced appropriately for what it does. If the DP is 145pts for worse stats (the important ones as no one really gives a shit about I and WS above 7 anyways) then I will be a bit unhappy. If chosen are the same price, but lose infiltrate and all weapon options then they better damn well be able to kill a carnifex in one turn (FWI ever since the GK book having power weapons on a squad for 25-30pts a model is playing a losing mans game...and one that current rumors have chosen really sucking at considering how many units out there will be cheaper and deadlier). Honestly I hope all CC units get cheaper because this edition is merciless for idiots that think they can run 40 CC marines up a table and win.

      In this vain I am ecstatic that zerkers are so cheap as they really aren't even worth 19 pts with the way this edition works...to bad about the retarded maulers being 55pts, if I wanted to kill something after walking towards it for 3 turns I will take 10 terminators with 4 chain fists...

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    3. WS 9 is a massively good stat. Don't be a tard.

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    4. Still hit on 3+ tard. WS is one of the most pointless stats above 7. Next to I obviously. Tell me what the difference between I5-9? or WS6-9 not much 90% of the time, and the few times it make come into play will not justify it being 50pts+ more for the same model.

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  22. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  23. The Dark Apostle also allows rerolls of Chaos Boon table rolls if there is another character in the unit he is in.

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  24. One thing I don't get is Nurgle Daemon Prince. SaP is only bad since DP has no Ballistic Weapons, right? Shrouded? Sure, but for a large DP that wants to get into CC what good is cover saves?

    Compared to Slaanesh with Rending, fleet and extra movement the Nurgle DP seems quite useless.

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    Replies
    1. Yeah, I thought the Nurgle mark was crap too for DPs. Tzeentch isn't much better and Khorne is ok depending on cost. Slaanesh on the other hand combined with Wings would be a VERY fast moving DP that could get into a fight very quickly. 12" Jump move + Rerollable charge range FTW?

      Delete
    2. The +1 toughness will be a big deal as the Daemon Princes lost Eternal Warrior, so T6 will be a very very big deal.

      Delete
    3. Tzeentch DP will be badass I think. 4+ invul, wings, daemon weapon, mastery level 3 psycher, and possibility of using that artifact that allows you to re-roll saves of 1. Now of course for all those upgrades he will probably cost 400+ points, but I see some potential there.

      Delete
    4. Looks to me that since DP's were all the rage in the current codex, they have now been nerfed into the ground in an effort to (over)compensate. Looks like it even lost its armor save? Coupled with the huge price increase and loss of eternal warrior I don't think many people will be able to field DP's anymore except for a lark.

      Delete
    5. Unfortunately, Tzeentch DP won't have a 4++ anymore, as demon of Tzeentch only gives them a reroll of the 1s for armor rolls (not event for invul!!!) So Tzeentch DP is quite screwed...

      Delete
    6. I think you're missing something, flying MC's have a 5+ jink save by default, which is a cover save. Shrouded + jink = 3++. That means a flying nurgle DP can only be hit on 6's (or skyfire) and once those hits land, 2/3 of them will do nothing. Nurgle DPs look a lot better in the new book, even if the price did go up. Just don't hover and whiff your charge roll.

      Delete
    7. Tzeentch rerolls all saves of a 1, not just armor. But you are right, they don't get +1 to the Invuln anymore.

      Power Armor is an additional 20pts added to the 145pt base cost of the Prince.

      Delete
    8. I understand why they made them more expensive, but why lose EW? If I'm going to be paying 200+ points for a model that's very hard to hide and is going to eat shots, why did he lose EW?

      Delete
    9. Looking at the entry i would say that it is able to take rewards and artifacts so maybe its possible to give them daemon weapons? http://images.4chan.org/tg/src/1348426712843.jpg

      Delete
    10. They better be free as only idiots spend 225pts on a T5 MC with 4 wounds. Hell the leading cause of new gamers losing is not managing points right. Look like the DP will be the new noob trap for new CSM players that get models because they look cool. Kinda like 3rd but about 1000 times worse. What I don't get is MC's became worse this edition yet the DP is even more expensive then 4th edition? Retarded isn't it?

      Delete
    11. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    12. I don't really think its fair to label the arguments as "stupid shit" Shadar. Maybe yours have been different but in my experience fear has been insignificant. The single S6 Ap- hit from Hammer of Wrath has also been insignificant in the DP's primary role of hunting vehicles or other high priority targets. Crush is actually quite the nerf; it's the same ignore armor they used to have, the extra strength seems pretty close to the old 2d6 armor pen but now his attacks are halved. Yes its easier to get cover saves but it was honestly not that hard to get them previously with the DP. Combine that with his loss of EW meaning he can be wiped off the board with single shot and I've found him to survive much less. You can try to make him last by keeping him in the air but with the new price tag it simply won't be worth it

      Delete
    13. Yah I got to agree with nate you obviously don't use MC's much do you? Fear only helps on picking on shit units (80% of the units a DP will be attacked by are fearless or have LD9-10 so unlike fantasy no one gives a shit about a fear check in 40K). Also most of your argument assumes that the person is paying for wings which makes the model 190-210pts which really isn't worth the added move rate especially considering it has no ranged weapons and still sucks at fighting flyers.. Also as stated only a idiot thinks smash is a net gain as MC's used to auto wreck most vehicles thanks to double pen. Simple math really 4-6 attacks at str6+2d6 is a lot more scary for most vehicles then 2 str10 attacks. Also as nate said the thing also lost EW and is now basically a free kill if you face GK.

      You really shouldn't call other peoples comments stupid when you obviously haven't thought the subject through in a fair and thorough manner.

      Delete
  25. In the wargear section I see "plague knife" listed do with know if plauge marines get them or if this is a HQ option?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't know for sure and someone will probably give you a more definitive answer, but the rumors were that plague marines now have poison attacks in CC.

      Delete
  26. Anyone know what USRs or other rules the heldrake gets?

    I know vector strike but anything else?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. they get the daemon special rule making them have a 5++ save and cause fear - so nothing interesting for 170pts

      Delete
    2. Except for a freaking 6/3 torrent flamer...while I agree the heldrake seems sub-par in its role as a dedicated anti-flyer unit, there are other options for that (havocs come to mind...), and a 12/12/10 flyer with an inv. save is freaking hard to take down

      Delete
    3. I do agree that as a support unit it will do very well. Looked at that battle report and those warp talons with one upgrade being 170 I think the heldrake and bikes are going to be my choice for FA.

      Delete
    4. havoks will be the answer to everything. remember that kelly wrote this one so no list can go without long fan...I mean havoks.

      Delete
    5. Really disappointing to only have one anti-flier option. I hate being forced to take certain units

      Delete
    6. Nate,

      You could always take a bunch of Forgefiends, 8 S8 shots is better than a rifleman at skyfire (since BS doesnt matter). We need to see the rule that allows them rerolls on one turn for to wound/penetration. This could be killer for the turn you want to eliminate a flyer. Depending on when you enact that reroll (ie start of turn, start of shooting, start of rolling to wound/pen), it could be really useful for a turn where you land an unusually high number of skyfire shots. Making flyers dodge is frequently suppression enough to hurt their battlefield effectiveness.

      Delete
    7. Chaos Space Marines with solid FA choices? The world really is coming to a end!

      Delete
  27. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  28. And what about ALPHA LEGION? Does the codex says anything?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. rule#1: do not talk about the alpha legion... it's secret!

      Delete
    2. Well fielding Alpha Legion is easy. Go to the store and buy any codex and an army from that codex. You now have an alpha legion army. Sure, they look like tau and they hit like tau, but nobody can prove they ARENT alpha legion.

      Delete
    3. HAHAHAHA, brilliant

      Delete
  29. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Another troll who wants the "thread" to be closed... That happens too frequelntly these days!

      Delete
    2. Yes and what is with the Anti-Amercanism?

      Delete
  30. Did someone say berzerkers were 15pts?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Any change on Huron Blackheart?

    ReplyDelete
  32. what's the deal with Demonic Possession? Do models have to be "inside" the vehicle in order to roll the D1 and get 1 Hull Point?

    ReplyDelete
  33. 100th woot!

    Great complination Natfka!

    ReplyDelete
  34. Any news on Fabius Bile? I saw him prefly mentioned in the noise marines section, does that now mean hes a unit champion (please say no please say n please say no) cause I reckon thar fabius bile is too cool to be simply a unit champion.

    More on that any news on the warpsmith or Huron Blackheart?

    ReplyDelete
  35. What happened to the storm shield equivalent for Terminators? Didn't make it into the book I assume?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I assume that damned Mutilators are the answer to your question. I hoped for chosen terminators with tons of wargear, marks, icons options too.

      Delete
  36. Why no icons for damned Hell-Butterflies (1.hell - is the trend word of new codex; 2.warp talons have those fairy wings on their packs)?
    Does anyone know if special weapon options for raptors have changed?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are those chain axes available to 'zerkers only? WTF, mr. Kelly, for hundreds and thousands of years of the Great War all traitors could mix all the parts of their armour but still keep integrity of their wargear complex? lawl. Chaos must be a crazy mix of everything in the grasp rich. rant's over.

      Delete
    2. Oh, there's no marks on vehicles. No special weapon upgrades? e.g. Inferno bolts for tzeenched rhino or sonic weaponry for slaaneshi land raider? Fucking sad.

      Delete
    3. Pardon my swearing, I've expressed my disappointment too impulsively.

      Delete
    4. Ahem*

      WAIT TILL YOU HAVE THE ACTUAL CODEX!!!!

      Delete
    5. Yeah, I mean no other army is limited on who can use wargear. Everything in the Orc dex has access to big shootas, why would the followers of Khorne not be willing to share their gear with the guys they've been fighting for 10 millenia? And how come my Night Lord flavored models can't use icons? Everyone knows they're devoted followers of the Gods of Chaos and don't consider them just as pathetic as the Imperium.

      Delete
  37. Some off topic posts removed, along with some anti-govt stuff and codex author bashing.

    Discussions about codex writers is generally ok, but gets off topic quickly, but trashing them needlessly gets wiped clean.

    New readers,
    You can make your points without trashing on people.
    You don't have always be positive here, but at least be constructive, and get the dialogue going.

    While deleting I accidently wiped one non-drama comment and its reponse. I apologize.

    ReplyDelete
  38. I was wondering if there was any news on the Warpsmith. Is he just a chaos techmarine or is he the equivalent of the "warsmith" for Iron Warriors?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. nothing like what you're thinking, but still great

      flamer/melta/+2 attacks
      repair vehicles
      curse vehicles 18" (gets hot)
      shatter defenses
      weapons options
      wargear options
      MARK options
      Veteran of the Long War for 5pts

      I'd say he's a good Iron Warriors HQ.

      Delete
  39. No ones asked this, you sort of dropped bile in the middle of the noise marines... do noise marines get fnp?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Word is the NM Icon gives them FNP (and any other Slaanesh marked units that take that icon, not sure how that works yet since I don't have the book)

      Delete
  40. Very sad about the daemon prince. I agree with bringing its cost in line with daemon dex, but doing tha AND making them less effective than daemon dex makes no sense. I'm hoping there is an eternal warrior usr for them that we just havnt seen yet. The nurgle dp is now just dumb. In most situations he will be in the open charging the nearest enemy, so you will have a choice between 5+ invul or 5+ cover from shrouded. If I field him, its gonna be behind an aegis line defending my cultists. At least he will be safe with a 2+ cover. I'm also disappointed in the foc for dark apostle. It would have been far better if previous rumors had been true in regards to up to 3 in an elite slot, that could be split to join other squads, like the necron royal court. That would have given us some amazing list possibilities to explore. The HQ slot is way too cluttered now.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How about a flying nurgle prince jinking for a 3+save?

      Delete
    2. Too expensive for one, and if you dive to gain jink you can do nothing your next turn if im not mistaken. Not only that, but Ive lost more wounds on my DP's from that damn impact test, than actual wounds caused by shooting! Flying DP's are VERY over-rated! And now they are a lot more expensive!

      Delete
    3. And also, how does slow and purposeful work with flying?

      Delete
    4. You sir have just made my day, by making nurgle DP viable again. my hat to you

      Delete
    5. S&P means can't run can't overwatch, so it's means nothing for swooping version of flying. When gliding you won't be able to use either of those things. My question is does the Demon Prince still have an armor save, or just the 5++?

      Delete
    6. He has an armor save if you buy him an armor! Otherwise, it's no armor save, only 5++!

      Delete
    7. Also important to note, S&P also means that they can't run (including while Swooping since they just Run 2d6). Yes you have to pay for armor but you do in the Daemon codex too. But rejoice, you are WS9 so most things hit you on 5's!

      Also Daemon Princes were extremely rare in the fluff until after the 4th edition codex. It was kind of stupid that the most popular choice in the old codex was 2 Daemon Princes from a fluff perspective. Also if it's true that they don't unlock the respective cult troop choice, that will also help them become as rare as they should be (to match the fluff).

      Delete
    8. Anon,

      To be fair, Psycannons are supposed to be the rarest weapon in the imperium, but the GK book managed to give them to like, everyone.

      Delete
    9. Rare typically is represented by a limitation of 0-1 or forcing you to take a special character or unit. Over pricing things into making them garbage is just bad design and product pushing.

      Delete
  41. Is there any possibility that chaos gets more HQ slots now? Like the space wolfs... Im also sad that there are so many options in the HQ section.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. the only way to get more HQ is to play a game over 2000pts. it remains that space wolves are the only army to gain 4 HQ's

      Delete
    2. Daemon heralds count 2 as 1 HQ slot. They did that before Wolves.

      Delete
  42. Remember folks, the guy that did the Q&A is running off of memory of what he saw when he looked at the codex. He doesnt have it onhand answering questions, this means he can me off on certain things a little bit. If i only had five minutes to glance through it, I would really study what I was personally intersted in and glance over the rest.

    Here are a few things that are incorrect according to the WD or pictures of the actual codex that have been leaked online.

    Terminators in the WD show me 90pts for 3, now i cant make out how much for addtional ones but it wuold be very strange for the first three to be 30 each and the rest 31. Just saying :p

    The Forge Fiend can have three shooty weapons, not two. The model has three posed in it, the WD battle report had three ectoplasma cannons.

    Not busting anyones chops, just pointing out the fact that running off of memory when you only get a few minutes to glance through something can mean mis-remembering stuff.

    The thing that worries me the most to be honest are the darn Possessed. 26pts each for what they would do with these rumors would be a serious overpricing. So heres to hopeing that there are more to them that is currently being talked about, or the price is not correct completely :P

    ReplyDelete
  43. 230 points for a Land Raider? We get the shit variant and it's that expensive? Wow.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree I would recommend taking the defiler over a land raider.

      Delete
  44. Are plague marines still fearless then? I don't want them legging it off objectives

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes they are still fearless so you have nothing to worry about.

      Delete
    2. Cheers mate. Was getting concerned that the last few Month of nurglising squads with green stuff had been wasted

      Delete
  45. Did anyone catch that the Helldrake can enter hover mode? Under the http://images.4chan.org/tg/src/1348423039726.jpg picture, it has Fl, H which means flyer and hover as per the table at the bottom of the page. Just thought this info should be updated in the Helldrake entry =).

    -Yriel

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thats great... I quess it can wreck vehicles with its claws...

      Delete
  46. I'm really looking forward to seeing the 'Wargear/Rewards/Artefacts' tables - I think that'll put a lot of things into perspective for me, especially with points.

    Don't suppose anyone saw how many points Lucius is? Or how many points it costs for a Sonic Blaster/Blastmaster/Doom Siren?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lucius is 165pts
      sonic blasters are 10pts each
      blast master is +18pts

      doom siren = no idea

      Delete
    2. Seriously, is this true? A sonic blaster is 10pts per model? So a Slaanesh marine with sonic blaster is what 26 points? Wow, that is higher than the 25pt price tag now. Was hoping for 5 points or so...though the blast master is way cheaper and better.

      Delete
  47. Anything about Huron Blackheart? Does he even exist anymore and if so is he worth something now? Also does the zombie upgrade that Typhus confers to cultists cost anything?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Huron Blackheart is still in and remains nearly the same. the zombies gain feel no pain , slow and purposefulness and fearless(don't quote me on the fearless part)

      if you want to upgrade to zombies then they are 8pts per model and can score. so dearer than a ork but has feel no pain.

      it is up to you if you think it is worth it. personally I don't think it is.

      Delete
    2. But zombies only have 1 CCW.

      Delete
  48. Im very happy with this codex and look forward to read it and feel sorry for those who thing this is a legion codex logicaly is not, look more competitive now, tons of options and units, will be very fun to field an army with it, stop asking about specific legion, there is not such thing like that in the new codex, this is not the 3.5 old dex, is a new fun and balance dex, thanks Phill Kelly

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fun how? Balance is good but all I'm seeing so far is the same book only with more restrictions and a couple new things designed to distract you from what we didn't get.
      And to write a book without the option for poeple to play legion specific armies is just bad planning.
      Now I know we don't have teh book in our hands yet and we're going by onyl what we've heard from others but it would be nice to hear some good stuff from this book for a change. All I'm hearing is how expensive everything but havocs (which no one used because of the point cost) are getting and how no ones list is going to work with the new rules. ( because they've invested in now very over priced demon princes or they didn't have a lord because cult troops were troops among other things.)
      It's looking like it's been designed to punish anyone who already owns an army unless they purchase all the new things (or get the now cheaper havocs).
      Do you notice how everyone seems to be raving about the new Warp Talons?

      Delete
  49. It looks good. But we would have gotten 2wound chosen terminators AND juggernaught riding berserkers if Ward had written it. Maybe by 9th edition

    ReplyDelete
  50. CSM's are goign by their track record one of the worst codecies when it comes to drastic changes in edition change overs. I am sure at least a few people will be pissed at the sweeping changes that it will hold. Some shit units will become super stars other great units will become gaming tumors on your army, and some mid range units will be forever lost to mediocrity. Still this late in the game most die hard CSM fans have left 3-5 years ago, and any hangers on will either be ecstatic about any change or will bitch for a bit adapt and roll with the paunches. I am of the latter group although it looks like GW is really going for the tit in how drastic some of the changes are.

    Lets recap what we know so far. DP is now garbage, Bikes are looking like a solid and robust choice, Plague marines are more or less the same. Berzerkers are now better at taking out garbage units but now suffer a noticble drop of in fighting units that take more then one turn to break or that can guarantee the charge. So far most of the other units are looking like a net gain in effectiveness.... well maybe not chosen unless I am missing something, as 28+ point units with power armor and power weapons typically are a shitty overpriced idea.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So apparemtly being the first codex of a new edition to fully implement new rules and changes is not "drastic" enough?

      Tell me more about how you loved last editions codex even more...

      Delete
    2. DP is far from garbage, but I think unaligned+psyker ones will be the best. Possessed are more reliable and supposed to be 24 points/one. Guess it's still not enough for them to be cost-effective, but people won't call you silly and laugh to no end if you field them...
      Only really bad unit I see is mutilators, at 55 points each, this unit is a big fail IMO. On the bright side, no need ton convert/paint/look at them, then! ;)

      Delete
  51. Any word on Plague Marines getting a cc weapon with the boltgun and bolt pistol? Or is it an upgrade like the chaos marines?
    And can you throw Blight Grenades? If so. What do they do?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You can throw Blight grenades. I can't remember exactly what it does, it hinders the enemy in some manner.

      Delete
    2. Also itsays in the weapon profiles that blight grenades are a Blast weapon... so 10 plague marines throw 10 S3, Blasts to 8" range... cool.

      Delete
    3. Each unit can only ever throw one grenade.

      Delete
    4. I am pretty sure the rules state only one model may throw a grenade

      Delete
  52. One good advice, we are not read the codex yet, maybe the armory and upgrades that can take units make then better so, I thing we have to wait until release for see if it worth it or is not

    ReplyDelete
  53. I saw it posted earlier but I have to ask to see if maybe someone corrected it. Is typhus now str 8 with his demon weapon and its AP2? doesnt that kind of put abaddon to shame as far as damage dealing potential?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Would love to know any other news about Typhus, if anyone has the inside scoop.

      Delete
    2. I agree, wielding Typhus as a CC weapon is very unwieldy indeed! (Just laughing at reading JayDee's comment as if Typhus was a weapon a model can wield) =)

      Delete
    3. Jaydee can you post the pic of typhus stats? I would like to know what else he has

      Delete
    4. http://images.4chan.org/tg/src/1348423183858.jpg

      Delete
  54. Can Hellbrute have butcher cannon and mark of nurgle[it will not die]?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. the butcher cannon is a forgeworld only weapon as far as I know and mark of nurgle is not what gives "it will not die"

      Delete
  55. What are the stats on Magma Cutters as found on Maulerfiends? Page 68 of the CSM codex?

    ReplyDelete
  56. Any news on whether plague marines got slow and purposeful? It was strongly rumoured and would really hurt!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not going to happen. Plaguemarines would go from the most popular cult troop to a lot le$$ popular overnight. They seem to be getting a bit cheaper but with slightly less ability to feel no pain.

      Going back to having to model nothing but plague knifes would suck, but I see it as a rule and not a one pose law, basically a fancy way to fluffily give them poison.

      Noisemarines should be the best cult troop, given that they can do well in H2H and the shooting phase, but depending on points costs Bezerkers and Plaguemarines will probably remain the most popular. 1000 Sons might appear more as a Sorcerer of Tzeentch with bells and whistles may become a popular 2nd HQ choice. Personally I think it will be hard to resist the cheer leader, err Dark Apostle. That dude leading a large squad of cultists seems like it will become a popular and possibly winning strategy. Put them behind the porta-wall and they would be fearless and in hard cover...

      Delete

 
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