There is just so much out there right now on the latest White Dwarf regarding the Chaos Space Marine codex. I even missed some of it. Here are a couple pics and a few rules that are floating around that have not been posted here....... (at least I dont think they have)


the pics come via mr tscha's picasa page



via Fifth_miracle 
Basic Chaos Marine....Supposedly.
4 + Aspiring Champion 80 pts.
Each additional model +14 pts.
Units size: 5-20
Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Frag and Krak grenades
May take a special weapon for every 5 models in the squad.

meltagun +10 pts
plasmagun +15 pts

If the squad numbers 10 more, one model can exchange its special weapon:

Heavy bolter +10 pts
Autocannon / missile launcher +15 pts
Lascannon +20 pts


via MajorWesJanson 

The terminators are pretty standard. They now have the options for marks and icons, veterans of the long war, and champion can take mutations. Otherwise, they are sort of constrained by the Terminator kit they put out. If they took away options, they would have useless parts. If they added more weapon/wargear options, they would have to add new parts somehow.

These are the more generic units in the book. The terminators and chosen are basic veterans, not cult troops, and thus have a variety of abilities and wargear, but nothing too special. I'd bet that the page following this one covers the 4 cult troops.

As for the other unit entries,
Possessed are Vendetta price for base champion +4, can add more. Looks like bolt pistol CCW base.
Champion can take mutation
Marks plus Icons
Veterans of the Long War
Dedicated Rhino.

Mutilators look like rhino price for one, can add more
Marks
Veterans of the long war

Hellbrute- dreadnought price
multimelta and power fist base
can swap MM for reaper autocannon, TLLC, TLHB, Plasma cannon, extra powerfist
can swap power fist for thunder hammer or power scourge
can add combibolter or heavy flamer
Can add something that fires frag and krak missiles. Havoc launcher?

Chosen- 5 points less than a base squad of terminators for a champion +4 more. Can add more for looks like 1 point more than now
bolter, bolt pistol, CCW, frag and krak nades standard.
Up to five models (maybe? hard to read) may do the following:
replace bolt pistol with plasma pistol
replace ccw with power weapon, LC, or power fist
replace bolter, pistol, and ccw for pair of claws
One may upgrade to take the following
flamer
heavy bolter
meltagun
plasmagun
autocannon
lascannon
missile launcher
champion can replace a ranged weapon for a melee weapon on the wargear list (not sure about that one)
champion can take gift of mutation
champion can take melta bombs
marks and icon options
Veterans of the long war
Chaos rhino as dedicated.

124 Comments:

  1. Deffinately lot to expirement with. The helbrute having a thunderhammer sounds cool.

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  3. And they had all this info just imside the WD?

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    Replies
    1. Yes, there were several pages listed from the Codex. Some of them are from the wargear-, FoC- and special rules pages.

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    2. Hats off for the person who can read it all!

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  5. Sad to see so few options for termies... only time will tell though

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  6. anyone know what will happen with the cultists and if there will be special box exterminators?

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  7. I am excited for the hellbrute changes. I love dreads. So glad to see the rumors about weapon options were wrong and they can still have plasma cannons

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    Replies
    1. You're glad that they don't get a butcher cannon or two auto cannons? I'm not.

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    2. Rumor was no plasma cannon and since I converted a khorne one with a plasma cannon I was bummed

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    3. I'm upset they don't get marks.....lame

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  8. Wait - bolt pistol, CCW AND bolter, Chaos Space Marines are the new Grey Hunters?

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    Replies
    1. They've had that since 2007.

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    2. Chaos apace marines have this currently...

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    3. Chaos Space Marines always had that combination.

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    4. Well, you can tell I don't play Chaos!

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    5. not at all. they're the old grey hunters. CSM have always had BP, Bolter and CCW

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    6. At least they made them cheaper. I don't see what was balanced about a marine with a bolter, BP and CCW. Compared to a marine with a bolter, BP and CCW, acute senses, counter attack, ATSKNF.

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    7. Actually the Grey Hunters are the new CSM, only a tiny bit better.

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    8. They always had BP CCW

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  9. I'm curious as to what a Power Scourge is. Looks like the butcher cannon rumors for hellbrute weren't true, same with the 4 autocannon loadout.

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    1. Yeah, and honestly, it makes them a lot less appealing. Now I find myself drifting toward selling all but one of the helbrutes and rocking 2 decimators plus a helbrute in my elites slots, and a defiler and 2 forge fiends in my heavy slots. Hopefully they will make up for the less than optimal shooting and allow the nurgle decimators to get into contact with the enemy. Blight drones and a dragon as my rapid response units.

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    2. The power scourge is that arm on the old metal dread that looks like 4 or 5 flimsy rods with a claw on the end

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    3. What were the stats on the scourge then?

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    4. Well, back in 2nd ed, it acted like a lash whip of sorts. It dropped everybody in base contact's attacks by one. but it was weak and only was S6.
      Perhaps it'll go back to that? A basic power weapon that applies a de-buff?

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    5. Just a regular DCCW... nothing special or fancy if memory serves

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    6. what advasntages does a DCCW have vs a power fist as don't walkers use a power fist at their base init level?

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    7. A dccw strikes at str 10 @ initiative

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    8. Power fist strikes @ s:10 i:user on a walker just like a dccw

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    9. The unwieldy rule allows walkers and monstrous creatures to strike at their normal initiative.
      Why does everyone keep forgeting that?!?

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    10. I wonder if maybe the DCCW is something included only for the time being and the plan is to basicly obselete it and give dreadnoughts a greater variaty of CCWs

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  10. A new colour scheme for Ahriman? Look at the first pic, the one with the small colour schemes page. I was literally minutes away from starting to paint mine when I saw this. Now I might have to wait...
    Sad about the Terminators lack of options, but most other things sound good, although I do not like the idea that chosen can no longer take 5 flamers. There goes that conversion...

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    Replies
    1. I think he may be the same as in the BRB, as with the other unique characters.

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    2. Yah I am also bumbed that Chosen look like a overpriced CC specialist squad. I currently have 10 plasma guns that are going to be shelved forever. Really chaos has no need for a over priced version of a loyalist vetran squad (If you wanted a CC dedicated squad berzerkers even with the changes would curve stomp a kitted chosen squad pt for pt). GW better have given them something other then a bunch of shitty over priced power weapons to make them appealing.

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    3. Well if the Havocs stay the same, you can still have 5 flamers in a squad.

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    4. Paint him however you damn well please! To hell with the naysayers, it's your model.

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  11. Possessed also 2 wounds if I can see corretly in mine?

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  12. anything about terminator champions having 2 wounds?

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  13. Even without the new models, my CSM army is going to be awesome on 10/6/12

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    1. It will look great last june?!!? :-P

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    2. He is probably from the States, and we go Month/Day/Year... didn't we discuss this awhile back? Yes it seems wrong to those from across the pond.

      I can understand both, and do not see why people need to make fun of the others when they use a format not familiar with them.

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    3. The US. displays dates as month/date/year, unless your in the military.

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    4. Yes indeed the US does that and it also happens to make absolutely no sense, so no wonder people outside the US thinks it strange (second, minute, hour, day, month, then year which is the clinically logical path that the US some how does not use).

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    5. Most Canadians got month/day/year as well. It's because we say "October 6th, 2012" when we describe the date so we write it in the same order.

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    6. Also different in Canada if you're in the military. You'll commonly describe a date as 6 OCT for example.

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    7. Why do computer nerds confuse Halloween and Christmas? Because 31 OCT = 25 DEC.

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  14. Does that mean basic chaos marine (troops) do not have the options for marks or icons? Are you required to take a mare to take an icon? What are the icons points cost?

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  15. Can anyone see/read how many attacks a Warp Talon has on the profile?

    And if Posessed really have 2 wounds?

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    Replies
    1. All basic models in the fast attack sections have 1A, unit champs getting 2A. So it seems Warp Talons are getting 2 attacks(Basic + x2 CCW's).

      Also, there is only 1 model with 2 wounds in the Elites and that has a 2+ save so i'm assuming its the new CC Oblit's.

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    2. Thanks for clearing that up for me :)

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  16. Looking at the weapon list, since the names in the model list are distorted.

    It is the Hades Autocannon 36" S8 AP 4 Heavy 4.

    Also get your havocs painted up nice because chaos is getting flakk missles.

    And it looks like only 3 non hq models are getting multiple wounds. Only one of those are in the elite list so it's likely plague marines.

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    Replies
    1. The multiple wound models are Oblits, their CC variant and Chaos spawn.

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    2. There also seems to be a s8 ap2 ccw without unwieldy

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    3. Yeah I spotted that. I just wish the picture was a little bit clearer so I could make out the name of the weapon better. It's power something.

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    4. That sounds similar to a rumoured daemon weapon. It's supposed to be a power sword, but in a challenge it becomes s8 ap2 ID and stuff.

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    5. It's Energiegeißel which translates to Power Whip. I can't make heads or tails of the special rule next to closecombat.

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  17. Confused on chosen. Those are the ones I am most interested in, so is it -5 points off of CSM termy squad (3men) or -5 off of SM termies squad(5 men)?

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    1. Am i reading the chosen right? Only one can have a plasmagun or melta? Not all 5?

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    2. Am i reading the chosen right? Only one can have a plasmagun or melta? Not all 5?

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    3. This is what I'm wondering too... That'd be a big blow to their usefulness!

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    4. It's probably just a mispost and not verbatim.

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  18. Below are a few statlines I thought i'd share:

    DP stats:

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
    9 5 6 5 4 8 5 9 -

    What stood out first was the high WS but then as you go across I8! I've looked at it multiple times and there is no other number it can be. Ld9 is a bit strange as is having no armour save (im assuming it has 5+ Inv mind) but i'd like to think you can buy an upgrade.



    Kharn stats:

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
    7 5 5 4 3 5 4 10 3+

    I'm hoping to see Gorechild remain as a power axe but lose the unwieldy rule because otherwise there is very little reason in having him I5. Add in the fact it used to be a Primarchs weapon and well...im sure you get what i'm saying. Assuming Kharn keeps 2+ to hit in CC and he'll be hitting and wounding on 2's against basic Marines on the charge with 7 attacks (4[basic] + 1[CCW's] + 2[Rage charge])



    Berserkers:

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
    5 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 3+

    1 Attack basic is a bit of a shock after years and years of having 2 attacks basic. However I guess it is to make up for the fact they now have rage as a USR. Also what shocked me a bit more was Ld 8. Unit champ gets 2A and Ld9.

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    1. Well they're fearless, so their LD value isn't too big of a deal. Chaos took a LD hit across the board, but basic icons can offer fearless now too; which is nice. I don't like the 1 attack basic either, even if it's made up for with Rage; still means you NEED the charge or they're no better than regular marines in close combat really.

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    2. They will have 2A base: pistol + CCW = 2A. The profile will just say 1, but they will always have 2.

      As to Gorechild making I5 on Kharn useless, Dante would like to have a few words with you. He's I6 but strikes at I1. Seems far more of a nerf than Kharn would get.

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    3. By basic I meant without taking into account CCW. If you want to take it as with CCW they have had 3 attacks basic for years with 4 on the charge. They are still getting 4 on the charge now but if they get charged only attack back with 2 a piece where as it used to be 3.

      As for Dante, i'm going to disagree. He may have 1 more I than Kharn but he also has 2+ armour, 4 wounds and a 4+ invulnerable making him much more survivable against anyone that strikes before him. Not to mention that he'd get his 2+ save against pretty much everything striking before him that isn't a monstrous creature.

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    4. And 2A is what normal CSM have as well which was his point. :P

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    5. But doesn't icon of Khorne give them counter attack? That means they essentially ALWAYS get their +2 attacks, right?

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    6. Wel you can always choose to make the plasma pistol as your main melee weapon and strike at Initiative. This way you won't suffer Gorechild's Unwieldy rule. Though you don't gain any benefits from Gorechild this way.

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    7. Looks like daemon princes got nerfed in to oblivion. Armor -. You'll get a 5+ invul and that's it (4+ for tzeentch). It won't matter if they are I8. With only T5 and 4 wounds they will be shot down long before they make it to close combat.

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    8. I thought Counter-Attack only gave you a charge bonus for each model you move into base contact rather than just every model in your unit.

      Here is an example of what I thought CA was:

      Unit of 8 Khorne Berserkers is charged by Assault Marines. After all AM have moved only 4 KB are in base contact with AM models. The other 4 KB then move into base contact due to the counter attack rule and then count as charging.

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    9. They got buffed stats except for Ld, and brought back in line with the Daemon codex. Nothing surprising there.

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    10. Counter attack means you roll a Ld test when being charged. If you pass, you get the bonuses for charging as well.

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    11. This is anon 9:49, I see now after double checking that mark of Khorne gives counter attack, but this combined with veterans of the long war means your champion is ld 10 for his CA roll. Preeetty good odds he's gonna get his 5 S5 AP2 attacks (if you roll with a power axe). Not to mention the rest of the squad gets 4 attacks each, lol. I'd say, overall, zerkers are roughly the same as they were, since they should come with MoK standard. Well, against PA. Against hordes they'll mow through them like a bull through a cardboard fence!

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    12. @thorhammer: 5 bucks says you can upgrade them to have a 3+ AS. I seriously doubt they completely took it away. I bet it's exactly like Chaos Daemons now, just like the rumor said.

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    13. Counterattack will not work in the second turn if there is one (which is more often than melee based armies like to ^^)

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    14. As i read the rules for rage in the brb and unless they faq it, rage is useless against marines. It says +1 extra attacks on the charge and defensive grenades negate the charge bonus. From what i've seen so far i've started telling myself this codex will still remain uncompetitive and just be thankful for all the cool new models and fluff. Avoids the inevitable dissappointment...:)

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    15. Not at all... your charge bonus is the extra attack you get for charging. rage confers a seperate bonus attack

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    16. If the DP is the 150 pts its rumored to be then it can have WS10 and I10 for all I care its still looking pretty shitty for a T5 monster with a 5+inv save base.

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    17. Why do ppl keep saying they are bringing it in line with the CD DP? The CD DP is a piece of shit that only works because it can be taken for a retardedly low price as a cheap MC. A un-upgraded DP is actually pathetically weak in that even a standard CSM lord with a 5+ inv and a decent weapon can do just as much damage at 1/2 the price. Years of conquest to become a bullet sponge or get dragged down by 15 orcs. Yah anyone in favor of this change obviously doesn't play CD much (Hell I dropped them from my army all together till wings made them flying MC's).

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    18. @anon 11.02
      Had a chance to look at the brb now. Rage states +2 attacks for charging and defensive grenades states (p62) units do not gain bonus attacks from charging units equipped with defensive grenades. Quoting would make it clearer but i'm not sure of the comment section rules. The way i read it, it makes it pretty clear you get no bonus attacks from charging defensive grenades regardless of the number of actual attacks you would normally get. Could be wrong though..;)

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  19. What's this veteran's of the long war? New rule?

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    1. +1 Ld and Hatred (Space Marines)

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    2. where does it say flakk missile?

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  20. No flamers for basic chaos marines?T_T

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    Replies
    1. They're in there for 5 points, he just forgot to put them in.

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  21. If you're saying that terminators can't take marks, I highly doubt it.

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  22. All of the named HQ's that weren't already in Finecast have dropped from the GW site. I know a lot of people don't put much stock in this sort of stuff, but I love seeing the actual thing happen. No more rumors, this is it!

    So have Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, Dreadnoughts, Raptors, and Obliterators of course.

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  23. The basic chaos marine has 2 attacks in melee? One for pistol and one for CCW?

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    Replies
    1. Correct. It's been like that since the 4th edition codex came out, this should not be news.

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  24. We can assume that a standard marine uses bayonet and pistol? It is good to have 5 marines and so a total of 10 dices to roll in melee!

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  25. Question: if a normal marine has pistol and ccw attack in melee, is still worthy to have a sergeant with a chainsword and a pistol? It would be better to have a sergeant with a bolter and a ccw, he is going to fire better and he is going to be equally good in melee!

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    Replies
    1. If he only has a bolter and bolt pistol, he'll lose the extra attack in close combat because he doesn't have two close combat weapons.

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    2. CSMs always had two attacks in melee, 3 on the charge, all CSMs have bolter, ccw and bolt pistol, the sergeant gets all three as well.

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  26. I was too lazy to read the comments but where's flamer for CSM squad?!?

    Guess he simply forgot to mention it.

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  27. So am I right in thinking that the new WD has some of the rules from the upcoming Chaos Space Marines codex?

    If that's true, what's the point of it all? Either all the rules you need are in WD so you don't need the new codex, or you still need the new codex and the rules in WD are just a waste of ink?

    If it's a 'taster' of the new rules, then that's just advertising on a grander scale.

    I can't make any judgements until I pick up my copy, but as someone who subscribed between issue 66 and 230-ish, a new format has never been an improvement.

    Hopefully my doubts will be unfounded, but I'm a grumpy old reactionary :)

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    Replies
    1. Truth be told, every image of every model and every book they have in the White Dwarf is an advertisement. Every little bit is to make you go 'Oh, that looks cool, I want it!' and so you go and spend your money on it.

      A teaser of the new rules is the same as an image of a model.

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    2. I very strongly have to disagree with you, some new upcomming codex bits with additional photos are an awsome change. If they add a battle report with the new codex they get my money. I don't expect an entire codex in the WD but a taste is awsome. I have been playing since 1st eddition and have picked up WD's here and there, the model of just publishing adds for $9 is a complete waste of my money, since you can view adds fro free on the internet.

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    3. I just don't see the point of putting in a load of rules from the upcoming codex, especially when it will be out quite soon.

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    4. Ahhh, I see now. The rules are just shots of the codex.

      Magazine is nice. Covers a lot of different subjects. I like the 'average' quality of the painting in the painting guides as it actually represents the results you'd get following the guide.

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  28. Do basic chaos marines have the option to take icons/marks. If so what are the points. Do you require a mark to take an icon, or is it just the icon limits you to certain marks? Thanks!

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  29. So did anyone notice the "siege crawler" special rule on the other WD rules pics? We're looking at Maulerfiends moving like beasts (which means it's an MC not a walker) and having rage and counterattack (if marks are allowed)...oh and melta cutters.

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  30. So much for my combi-weapon chosen. At least my two heavy weapon dreads appear to still be legal. Unsure that the Blastmarker Billy build will ever be legal again.

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  31. Not much liking what Ive read thus far about the chosen. So far no improvements and a lot of nerf.

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    1. I'm concerned about this too. Previously they were useful because you could Outflank a bunch of special weapons a lot closer to the enemy and unload in one turn, particularly with Melta and Plasma. Since troops became a lot more important, people opted out of Chosen and went with troop spam instead to get the special weapons they needed.

      Now it seems like they kept the special weapons but lost what it was that really made them special. If they're still this expensive without any extra bonus, I doubt we'll see many on the table. But then, they may get some new rule or combo that we just don't know about yet.

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  32. Hey Natfka. There's a rumor over on a certain image board that claims someone has been kicked off the codex team.

    "It is now established that I can't mention that guy who formerly f***** up codex after codex by name. Please accept some Horus Heresy stuff to celebrate that he no longer shits out bad rules and even worse fluff. Yes, he's been kicked from the team."


    Seems pretty false, but it's attracting a lot of attention.

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    Replies
    1. Hope this isn't true. It would suck for a genuinely talented dude to be off the team because the random went full retard with their stupid hatedom.

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    2. I really do not know who this person is. Sounds like a little too much drama for me to dig into.

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  33. Wardhammer aka ThorhammerSeptember 21, 2012 at 11:42 AM

    I assume you mean cruddace because ward codecs are BOSS

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  34. Let's start a chant. ... Tau! Tau! Tau! *fist pumping action silmontaneously

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  35. Anyone hear anything about Huron Blackheart?
    Any rules...or if he even made it into the codex!?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He's one of the more recent models and debateably the focus of the last ed codex. I'm sure he's in :)
      Probably same rules and statline too.

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  36. Replies
    1. If an enemy unit suffers an unsaved wound from a weapon/unit with the soulblaze rule, then on a 4+ (each turn) they take d3 str 4 ap - hits

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  37. Natfka: When do you think you'll be posting codex pictures?

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    1. Hopefully we will see something out of Games Day UK on Sunday, otherwise probably all over the next 2 weeks.

      Delete
  38. the deamon prince is not that bad...... its stuck 6 to hit when its swooping if it has wings(with it always should have)

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  39. Naftka you need to name and shame the "must remain anonymous" sources that have been feeding you BS for the last couple of weeks, especially that Dark apostle rumour, they are quite clearly in the HQ section of the summary right under the daemon prince.

    Oh yeah sorcerers are now 2 wounds as well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. first off those sources under that title are more than one or two different people, so that doesnt make sense.

      Second, everything we get from those sources are from pre-print copies and definitely give the direction of how things are looking for upcoming products. Any information that is early from no matter where it comes from is not from a final product. some of it will remain the same but most will not.

      It would be very dangerous for a person with great access to information to give final copy information when only a few select have it. I cannot release anything that only a few named people have. That type of information, even if I receive it, I am not allowed to post.

      Lastly, the readers here do a great service to this hobby, by responding with thought out responses to early information (and less drama). It gives the people that matter good feedback on what they are proposing beyond simply playtesting and ideas. There are many people within Games Workshop that really do care and read what people say about upcoming products. Few believe it, but what you say (if its thought out) can really effect how units end up in the final product.

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    2. Eh I just have trouble that the bloke who fed ou the first DA rumours and the bloke who supposedly corrected them aren't full of it that's all, this close to release a change like that is pretty big and they should have known of a re-purposing. Dropping something from the rules is easy changing how it plays within the army at the last minute isn't.

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