A lot of people have noticed one thing about the upcoming allies rules..... Tyranids dont get them. So how then can tyranids compete against allied forces when they do not get them? Well take a look at this......

Please take this one with a little salt, as Tastytaste explains, he thinks this is happening, but either cannot give the details, or they are a little unclear with his source.

via Tastytaste from BoK
Full Post Found Here
For this rumor though I could end up being wrong or just missd something about how it exactly works. So let me repeat: THIS COULD END UP BEING WRONG. I just don’t have the same assurances that I have had in the past. So I with that said I would put this at 65% percent probability of being correct– if I was a betting man.

Ok, enough of me covering may ass let’s get down to the last rumor I will be having about 6th edition.

So as many of you have noticed in the leaked 6th edition pictures a little Battle Report with allies shown for each of the armies (IG/GK) and (CSM/Deamons).

With Allies are allowed to expand the Force Org chart which has been reported before, but what if I told you that wasn’t the whole story. What if you could break the FoC without having Allies…

Here is example of how it works.
I going to play my buddy which will be using IG and GK to face off against my poor little Nids. In 6th my bugs will not get Allies.

So how am I suppose to fight such a cheesy force?

Breaking the Bonds of FoC
I take 12 Hive Guard if I have to. Oh hell, let me throw in some Lictors with that as well. Oh, wait I need Ymgarls too! Now I can have it all! Well that is easy, once I fill all the “Detachment Requirements” I can now take another Detachment and a whole other set of FoC slots as needed. Detachments are not beholden to Allies it is just one of the ways you can use them. I made certain promises not to go into any more detail. I am either right or wrong, we only have one more week to find out!

61 Comments:

  1. Hello! First post here.

    According to "alliance chart" GW posted for one of their recent event You can see any army can ally with itself... WD article suggest this second FoC is 1HQ, 1 Troop, 1 elite/fast/heavy (however players could just limit themselves for "f me if I know why" reason).

    In best case scenario, You can take double FoC. Most probably You have to have at least 1+1 HQ, 2+1 Troops but You have additional elite/fast/heavy (frag-a-doodle-do).

    Worst case scenario - can't ally with Yourself so Nids got shafted.

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    1. Nidz ARE already a mess. Hope 6th will not make this even worse :(

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  2. And for once i hope to hear the silencimg of tyranid grumblers....but this seems too exploitable though. Im not sure if i missed it but this wouldnt work if your playing with the same army without allies? I would sense exploitability if this worked for all armies. Being able to take more HS/elite options would be cheese!

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  3. Sounds like you need to max out your original FoC slots though to make it work, ie you need mega points to use it properly.

    Anyway most xenos codex could do with less FoC restrictions.

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  4. sweet taking my normal HQ section with eldar will allow a 4th Fire Prism or 4th unit of fire dragons. I like where this is going, not to mention having 12 Warwalkers all with guide :)

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  5. So... space wolves can have

    4 HQ + 2 troops (HQ being Canis + 3 more, troops being 5 fenrisian wolves at 40+40=80 for 2 squads)

    then I ally with
    1HQ + 1 troop (HQ being random HQ, troops is 5 more fenrisian)

    Space wolves will rip you appart with HQs :P having 5 HQs and 15 wolves and then maybee something more depending on points, at low point games this one will kill everything

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    1. Daemons take 6 Heralds of Tzeentch on chariots, with Bolt, WaL and MoS, and FateWeaver.
      Oh, and double as many crushers. And 6 Soul Grinders.

      Don't ask where I get these points from, let me dream.

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  6. Actually, that multiple detachments thing was around in 5th. Check out page 87 of the rulebook. It does say that it should apply to large games over 2500 points, but doesn't say that it NEEDS to be that large of a game. So not much of a change there.

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    1. it says that above 2500 you can AGREE on using detachments (detachment = one more full FOC)

      so not really the same as this

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    2. Technically that rule has been around at least since third. It's just that no one plays 2500pt games other than apocalypse.

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  7. You're making a huge and completely unfounded assumption here.

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    1. Tasty included a HUGE disclaimer in his post, nobody is assuming, just speculating

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  8. I actually guessed this being the only way tyranids could make use if the allies rule and was daydreaming about taking three flyrants (new rules make then look brutal), four trygons and four tervigons. Hmmmmm

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    1. So does this mean we could potentially field a 6 Tervigon list now (3xHQ & 3xTroops)?

      Think of the gaunts....

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    2. Although it's not that much more than the 5 tervigon list- and no one does that anyway...

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    3. Yeah - but with potential new MC double strength attacks and "easier" glancing mech's to death with gaunts, this could be slightly more viable.

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    4. I don't think the second FoC maxes out at 1 hq 1 troop, I think that's what's required. So... 10-tervigon. Heheheh. How many hundred gaunts could you spawn?

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  9. I kinda wanna know what can allie with what! For example is there a Lost and the damned in it? This for Chaos Marines! Black Templars okay with every marine chapter?
    I'm so excited about the Allies!!!
    I do wanna know more about the hull points with drop pods! And with the deepstrike rumours being true?

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    Replies
    1. well that you could assault instead of just shooting when you deepstrike?

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    2. I would not think they are true, it just smells so much wish-list from it. I would also love it, but it would mean that the one getting first turn will bombshell everything and kill the other guy, and that game is then over...

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    3. if he has the same still the second player has the advantage of reserving and acting on the first players deployment ;). and bubble wrap is still a big factor here. Together with snap fire this could result in a very disasters assault ;)

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    4. If they've not changed deep strike but introduced snapfire and overwatch then combat only armies - i'm really talking about Daemons here... are ROYALLY SCREWED
      I'm hoping that with the increased 2d6" charge ranges that DeepStrike is modified to be similar to what the faked rules suggested.. i.e. >18" away then it's appear and move as normal... <18" then you get penalties..
      Also i am really really hoping that they've changed DS for larger creatures... personally my Gargantuan Creatures (Daemon Lords) shouldn't misshap, they should just appear like a drop pod or monolith... and monstrous creatures should only scatter 1D6 (IMHO)

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    5. It's possible for the daemon primarch of the World Eaters (or Ang'rrath, take your pick) to fall out of the sky screaming incoherent curses at the enemy, then to step on a grot when he lands and dies. WTF? I like the idea about drop pods, or maybe like the trygon.

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  10. whooo that combined with droppods would make certain armies rather painfull ;) but with the snapfire stuf that might still be scary.

    Would vehicles also get to snapfire? if so twinlinked weapons are going to be sick :)

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    Replies
    1. If you look at the previous rumors, a lan raider used snap fire to fire all 4 weapons after a move. Again exact wording of it may be off though

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  11. Everyone goes on about Nids, but what about the Necrons?

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    1. The new codex states that they are more political, and there is that infamous BA alliance so I think they will have a few to choose from. Obv not inc orks, eldar/DE and nids

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  12. Necrons can add blood angels

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    1. I field Necrons and BA and I can tell you.....I never will ally them together. My BA kill Xenos. Not ally with them. Sure, the fluff said they did "ONE" time....but it was for mutual survival. And that was "fluff" again, BA kills Xenos. Nothing more. :)

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    2. Maybe the Necrons mindshackled a unit of BA.....

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    3. Your BA never have to ally with a Xeno. BA in general? They can make whatever tactical decision they deem as acceptable to fight Chaos or actively invading Xeno forces. The BA 'Cron Bromance has been blown WAY out of proportion.

      They were fighting, Nids attacked, and both realized neither would servive if the Nids didn't get put down. BA acted honorably, and let the Necrons leave. Honor is one of those space marine things that the fluff loves.

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  13. i wonder if you take a second detachment of say space wolves in addition the first can you double up on Unique characters (Say double Grimnar)?

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    Replies
    1. no dubbles of named characters

      thats just silly

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    2. In the 5th edition rulebook, there's a story about the orks on their big green map page, about a Waaaugh! leader who went into the warp, came out before he left, found himself, and fought to the death to get a spare of his favorite gun. "the resulting confusion stopped the Waaaugh! in its tracks."

      Draigo: "Hello, Draigo!"
      Draigo: "Why, hello, Draigo!"
      "Care to go stomp some 'nids with my pals? pal-ADINS, that is?"
      "Me and MY pals would love to!"

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  14. No idea why everyone is getting themselves in a tis about this allies thing.

    It will mostly be used in pick up games where if the guy is the kind of douche that will do this then you shouldnt play him.

    In tournaments plenty of stuff like this currently gets sidestepped by TO's so why will 6th be any different? How many tournaments do you see where Special Characters are restricted / not allowed. Or where the 40k stamp approved Forgeworld stuff isnt allowed, even thought its clear that GW are happy with it.

    It will be open to abuse if the TO lets it be, and you will know that before attending the tournament. If you attend a tournament where that type of play is allowed more fool you for going to it.

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    1. oh yes, only a douchebag would dare use rules written in the rulebook.

      Tourneys that don't allow special characters are hardly the norm, for a reason. This isn't fourth edition. If you bring a special character, you build the entire army around them. Draigowing. Loganwing. What-have-you-wing. Jacobus/Celestine. Imotekh(or however you spell that)

      And "more fool you for going to it"? What's foolish about a tournament that plays by what's written in the rulebook, as opposed to houseruling out anything in there that the TO doesn't like?
      That isn't warhammer. That's an entirely different game, created in the TO's image.

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    2. Allies are a standard rule for any 40k game, not just pick up games. Its rather odd when a TO changes the rules for a tournament, and its unhealthy for the hobby.

      Changing the rules to not allow these new allies rules are most likely only going to happen during friendly games, or with very poor TO's.

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    3. I haven't seen a tourney restrict special chars since the most recent SM book came out, making characters necessary for many army builds, what with the removal of chapter tactics. Try telling people they cant take Logan or Belial or Dante and you'll find turnout drops.

      That said, I think allies will be treated differently, at least at first.

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  15. Necron Lych Guard Assault from a Stormraven :P

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    1. that actually sounds super awesome.

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    2. I cant remenber where i read this but i heard that allies wont be allowed to mix and match. For instance aBA stormraven cant transport necrons while a night scythe cant transport ba. The also goes for any abilities of an iten like a BA blood chalice thingy wont give necrons furious charge. So thats ruined....

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    3. I want two c´tan with writhing worldscape so dangerus test are allways on 1-2.

      BTW, in WD it says that famer does D3 atomatic hits in overwatch.

      And stormtropers geting str 10 hit each with no save when valkyrie get shot down.

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  16. Here's a stupid question, why couldn't the hive mind use mind control, so a nid army could take a ig or ork force as a allie? It would make scent.....or maybe a ig warped army that was sort of a gene stealer cult.. then the nids couls have allies to.

    The nids would just destroy them after the battle anyway...

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    1. Or, an even stupider question:

      Why not allow nids to take restricted IG allies so that, you know, THEY COULD FINALLY FIELD A LEGAL GENESTEALER CULT!

      Sorry. Rage off. I was just starting to get hopeful that this may be the edition that saw the return of The Cult. Sure, you can field them using a Count As force, but it's just not the same :(

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    2. Pink,
      I've been wondering the same thing. I've got too many stealers to field in a normal nid list (at least with the current rules, but I doubt they get better in 6th as your primary troops) but I would love to run a GS cult list with some killer guard conversions. Alas.

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  17. For the doubles tournament the interation of allied armies is restricted, so no allied units can use the others transports, IC's can't join allied units and special rules which effect 'friendly' units only work for the host army, not their allies (i.e. Kyrinakov's (from the sisters codex) fearless bubble wouldn't effect any allied units).

    I had this confirmed by Warhammer world events organisers, as they stated it has been 'previously abused' in other events. I would imagine if allies are in for normal games, the power will be reigned in as it has been here.

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    1. Should have gone on as a reply to Sjon's comment. Goddamn shitty IE!

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    2. so, thats apple and microsoft on the hate list, next............. ;)

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  18. Sooooooo... (I'm new to warhammer 40k BTW) Does this rule mean that one person could take, say, GK and IG in the same army? Or am I missing something?

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    1. Yes apparently you can take "allies" if you play IG for example you can ally with GK, all sm, sob, and maybe more.

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  19. We don't know what the rules on allies are as of yet, we've just seen the chart.

    Regardless, it's obvious to see that GW is putting fluff before competitive balance, but that's the way they've always done things.

    WHFB/40K is incredibly popular for many reasons, so it's no suprise that competitions and tournaments are also popular. Unfortunately, for the tournamant players, they've chosen the wrong game if they want to take competitions seriously.

    Years ago when I was part of a wargaming club in the RAF, we used to have competitions. However, we did things a little bit differently. Instead of a list of x amount of points, we were able to build an army of x2 points, then choose which elements to use in the next battle.

    This meant that you could be more flexible in your unit choice, dependant on which army you were about to face. The flipside of the coin was that you were unlikely to use your full point allowance for each battle as you were choosing units from a pre-written list, and the GM would have the scenario and points value of each round different to the next.

    Bottom line was that and disparities between the opposing armies was nullified by your ability to pick the right units from your pre-written list.

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  20. So to counter allies Nid players will have the privilege of buying more stuff to bring to the table top. GW does it again!

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  21. "WHFB/40K is incredibly popular for many reasons, so it's no suprise that competitions and tournaments are also popular. Unfortunately, for the tournamant players, they've chosen the wrong game if they want to take competitions seriously."

    I never met a person that solely plays 40k for tournaments. So find me these mythical people that don't enjoy the hobby aspects of 40k as well..

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    1. People that don't enjoy the hobby aspect? The ones who will put the models from AoBR together badly, play with them unpainted or sprayed Chaos Black, and then "counts as" half their models so they can field a list. Sadly, I've seen a fair number of these.
      Also, where did you get that thing about playing the game solely for tournaments? He just said that 40k isn't a very good game to get extremely competitive about.

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  22. How about in stead of BA and the Necron, Chaos ans the Necrons, and use the necrons ans the Dark machnaus (sorry for the spelling) sort of an unstopable army.... maybe?

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  23. I don't see why you could not use a gene stealer cult army as a nid allie.... maybe the will put in the next white dwarf as an update....

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  24. That is quite a shame that Tyranids don't get allies, I was hoping they'd allow Imperial Guard so that people can do Genestealer cult's.

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  25. Isn't it like always? Gw is op-ing all SM (eg GK!!!) Sure 1HQ and 1 Troop is not that much but if they can choose from every SM-army it could be unfair.

    I mean there are 6 imp-armies and 8 xenos, the xenos can't coop with each other but the imps do...

    sry but wtf is with GW

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  26. The allies thing cuts both ways though. Since we can't take allies from our enemies it means our enemies can't take allied tyranid units from us. I would personally hate to see enemy armies get their hands on genestealers(they belong to us dammit). Maybe a white dwarf will give us genestealer cult special rules.

    Still I always thought a dark eldar or necron tyranid team up would be pretty neat even if it made no sense lore wise.

    I guess the necron one makes a little sense since you can't nom necrodermis. Maybe the ctan and the hivemind could come to some kind of arrangement. The tyranids nom a planet into a death world for the bio mass and then the necrons get to turn the dead world into a tomb world.

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