This has been one of those weeks, and I can easily see how next week will be a lot of the same. Rumors have been flying around faster than I can keep up with, and some just never made it onto the site. However we are now getting much closer to the big release day for 6th edition and I see the rules getting more complete, making more sense in a larger context, and whew, I am excited for my first game of 6th edition.

Presence of Faeit is my weekly editorial. I generally report during the week what is going on, and today is my day to comment on what exactly it is that I am thinking of. Its a day late, but late is better than skipping it this week.



Balance
Warhammer 40k is making a big change, and so far I like what I see. I think the game will become more visceral, more heart pounding, and more balanced..... Yes I said balanced. Just follow me for a second.

Lets discuss balance. In 5th edition we had a lot of great releases for the game. The power level went up from 4th edition, and to be honest, most 4th edition codices were left in the dust (some more than others). A 5th edition codex, was by far superior to a 4th edition one. This led to 2 levels of play. Most players lost interest in their old codices and seeing them on the tabletop became rare.

Allies breathes a new breathe of fresh air into the life of a codex. It not only allows someone to collect smaller armies and play their different armies in the same game, but it gives older codices a chance to use newer units from recently released codices. So no longer with allies will armies be completely left in the dust, or to gather dust.

It also allows for codices that feel sub par, to be buffed up, or holes filled, and I think that after the dust settles (and the crying stops.... at least for most), we will see a far more superior game.

One thing on tournaments..... For those of you having a hard time with a lot of this, I can't see tournaments not allowing the core rules of the game, which means allies will be there. If you think they won't be, I think the wake up call will be harsh, so I am whispering it gently to you. To not allow core rules of a game into a tournament really means you are playing something else, and not 40k. I can see allies not happening in friendly pick up games, but tournaments are about playing the game as it is, and TO's that change the core rules really do a disservice to the hobby and game in general.

Dark Eldar
Am I a little excited about them? You bet your arse I am. I really need to get a hold of that rulebook, which I should have here sometime this coming week. I am going to be looking hard at how vehicles move and people disembark. My current guess is that open top vehicles can still go 12" and deploy, while non open top vehicles cannot. All I can say is Haywire Blasters.... Which leads me to the next subject.

Vehicles and Damage
Vehicle Damage Table 1 chart to rule them all
1-2 Shaken
3 Stunned
4-5 Weapon Destroyed and Immobilized (I wonder if its both or 4 is Wpn Dstrd and 5 is Imm?)
6 Explodes

AP1 +2 to the damage table
AP2 +1 to the damage table
Hull points:
Glancing hits remove one hull point with no roll on the table
Penetrating hits remove one hull point with a roll on the table

Missile Launchers gone with the wind? for Marines they are free, so probably not, but are definitely taking a hit in their ability to destroy vehicles. Can we say return of the Lascannon? It will be more expensive, but it will return to its former glory, and make its way into more lists now. Even plasma guns being able to fire the full distance even if you moved is going to bring a new experience to the table top. Dark Lances will gain some momentum, and Haywire grenades or Haywire Blasters will gain some new strength for you Dark Eldar players out there.

A word on melta spam........
According to the latest, you can only move your vehicles 6" and deploy. Even the deployment is different now, not giving you the full 2" from the hatch. I am curious how that plays out, but I guess I will have to wait and see. The main thing now is, that you will not be moving those rhino's 12" deploying 2" and double tapping those meltas anymore.



60 Comments:

  1. WOO! MORE NATFKA!!

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  2. Well said. Cant wait to play my necrons in 6th. Those gauss weapons oooooi soooo delicous. I also thought its a little weal to not put allies in TO if you can make a good list with 2 seperate armies then go for it. You take noth of the armies strengths but remember: YOU ALSO TAKE THEIR WEAKNESSES! Cant wait for more rumors...

    At this rate why get the book? We have it all her! XD

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    1. I am not yet a 100% sold on the Necrons dominating through glances part. Remember that you do not roll on the table any longer, so no chance to stun or immobilize, thus meaning you have to get a penetrating hit or lots of glances to stop the enemy from pushing forward. 10 Gauss shots are about 1 glance, so for stopping an enemy rhino at 24" away you would need 30 Warriors, or 60 if the enemy has smoke popped..

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    2. Auto glance at 6 with gauss on basic wariors most vehicules have 3HP (some exceptions) so i doubt many vehicules can surivive 20 warriors shooting or rapid firing for that mater

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    3. 10 gauss shots are about 1,111 glancing hits. So yes... you'd need to shoot with 20 warriors in short range to have some hope to save yourself from a deepstriking dreadnought assault. And this only if they don't have some cheese against glancing hits.

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  3. Woohoo for plasma !!!!!

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  4. So you don't think it will look like the warhammer fantasy allies system then? I can tell you that the tournaments I've been to here in Cali don't use allies in tourneys . It still feels like fantasy to me without them.

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    1. The WHFB allies system applies to multi-player games..which is why you don't see them in tournaments. They are not part of the 'Core' ruleset.

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  5. Anyone else feel like he is talking directly to them?
    Well, except for the crying, my tears aren't 6th Ed related (give us a Tau codex soon PLEASE!)
    Anyway...
    While I dont see a lot of winning in my immediate future, I think 6th is looking highly entertaining.

    Thanks for all the info natfca!

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    1. I can't wait to get some Venom Wyches alongside my Tau :)

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    2. Lol tau have a new meat shield now its called space marines

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  6. I can't wait til they make the game real tactical where they dispose of the foc entirely and allow cross faction armies too. I mean if you can create an army using any units from any codex then that s just you being a good player and only people who can't compete or who aren't creative would want to limit the game with any semblance of foc or percentages or faction only rules... 40k 9th edition and a competitive gamers view, first predicted here

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  7. i dissagree on allies helping older dexes
    1 or 2 units from a strong dex don´t help you at all, if everybody is running multi-powerhouse list, combining the best new dexes into smth IMBA

    allies are just opening the door for chees, not balance

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    1. I think railguns have a boost being 1 of onlY 2 weapons I can think of being str 10 ap 1 and so can hav +3 on the pen chart vs open topped vehicles do you think they will start appearing in more armies 4 allies or something like that.

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    2. I disagree with your disagreement. For the moment, the strongest armies are those that have no clear cut weakness. GK, SW, BA. Power Armor in general.

      The mid tier armies are decidedly mid tier because they have clear weaknesses when trying to contend with an all comers environment. Orks Lack AT and Long range reliable shooting, so, it's their clear Achilles Heel.

      If you mix GK with Space Wolves, you don't get anything terribly special. If you mix Orks with IG, you can fill a huge hole in the Codex, with long range shooting and AT. Now, they can be monsters at close range, and can pop some vehicles open on their way there.

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  8. Agreed, the notion of allies in tournaments is nonsensical. We ran 5e tourneys without 'core' rules like buildings and had no problems. Leave allies to the B&P set.

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    1. If your not gonna play with the rules then why are you gonna play? Where is the fun in chosing selct rules? Sure I do tuned games but thats mostly with objectives. But taking out allies altoghether just so a few players dont whine is crazy. If their really TO level players they should just play the damn game and quit moaning about allies!

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    2. Nonsensical? Why, exactly? It offers up loads more tactical possibilities and army combinations, as well as shoring up weaknesses in older armies. What's wrong with that? How are new scary combo's any different than new scary units/builds EVERY time a codex comes out?
      Oh, NOESS!! Nob bikes killed the game!!1!1 Or not.
      Oh, NOESS!! 30 Thunderhammer/storm shields killed the game!!1!1! Or not.
      Oh, NOESS!! Paladins ruined the game!!11!! Or not.

      Again, I ask, how are new army/ally combos any different?

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    3. IG with termies? Assault marines? Allies will allow us to tackle the weaknesses of every army. Let's see demons deepstrike behind my gunline only to have power claws rammed down their throats!

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  9. http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/vj64o/im_sitting_here_with_a_new_40k_rulebook_ama/

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    1. Yeah i read it. Interesting....but no extra shot with relentless :(.... . But with dift contradicting allies is strange...

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  10. Being at the tail end of a six-month project building an 'Iron Wolves' army that had 'non-optimal' units like: No Long Fangs, Predator Annihilators, Extra-armor on everything (mainly because it looked better) and a general lack of spam..I really hope you're right about some of your armor vehicle predictions. It would be great if a 'fluffy' army ended up being reasonably competitive. I'm also psyched about being able to add some Aettguard to the list..maybe a couple Leman Russ..

    Has anyone figured out what extra-armor does now? I can see it being the same or going a couple different ways.

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    1. A large FAQ is said to be coming soon so we'll just wait and see....

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    2. Extra hull point??? I sure hope so. I'm sure you were thinking something along those lines.

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    3. Extra hull point? Yes! I take it anyway in my list, forget it's there half of the time and feel like an idiot afterwards. This would stop me from forgetting what it does (and make my land raider almost worth its points).

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  11. An important note about melta and vehicles.

    Beyond not being able to disembark past 6" vehicle movement, you also can only "Snap fire."

    Meaning if you intend on moving 12 to get melta "in their face," it's going to be firing at BS1.

    Plasma guns are becoming more and more attractive with their potential output and additional turn(s) of shooting.

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    1. Not sure thats correct - Melta weapons are still assault, so you could still move 6" in the tank, move the models 6" out of the tank and then fire the weapon 12", giving a nice big 24" AP1 threat range, and 18" of 2D6 armour pen... surely? moving and shooting heavy weapons is the only time you need to use Snap Fire BS1.

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  12. As if haywire wasnt annoying enough???

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  13. or you can look at the obvious truth that vehicles will suck in 6th edition. they will be just too fragile so anti vehicle weapons will be less needed, since they will be essentially more effective.

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    1. I think you may be a bit too hasty in that conclusion. I think a lot of the heavier gun line tanks will be good. In 5th ed you can get a glance, and probably stop it shooting for a turn, now you take off a hull point and the vehicle can fire at full effect next turn.

      Ap1 and Ap2 shots have the same chance to kill a tank as 5th edition, but Ap3 or worse actually find it harder to kill tanks (requiring a 6 on the damage table). Tanks don't fear the space wolf missile spam as much :)

      I wouldn't be so hasty to reduce your anti tank yet. I would even advise taking a flyer or one of the fortification weapons to help against flyers, unless you're good at rolling 6's ;)

      Rathstar

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    2. I would have to think that missles would be a perfect weapon to be anti-flyer. At least they are IRL.

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  14. I really like how allies system helps Tyranids out and how not everyone can have the same access to every ally. There is inherent unbalance in the allies system that rewards some armies more than others. I can definitely see that as being a reason to leave allies out of tournaments and let players simply play with their own armies. The argument that "its part of the rules, if you are not using it then you are not playing the game as intended/why bother playing at all" falls short. Specifically, not all rules in the BRB are conducive to competitive or balance and a TO should be free to choose what rules to enforce to make an event more balanced in his mind. Certain tournaments in WFB ban special characters, despite them being a part of the game, for example. There is great merit in limiting special characters like Teclis when certain armies have no access to anything of that power....There is also great merit in limiting certain BRB rules that unevenly benefit certain armies more than others.

    Sure there are arguments for both allowing and not allowing but I think not allowing them in a competitive setting is more balanced and competitive as it forces players to all be limited to their respective armies. Every army has a weakness/hole...playing through those weaknesses is what makes players stronger.

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    1. You make too much sense.

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    2. Remember that several of the last codices were written with 6th edition in mind. they were written this way on purpose, and to delete adjust or change the very basics of the rulebooks, will unbalance the game for the worse, not only now, but in the future as new codices come out.

      When I play a game, especially at a tournament, us competitive players prefer to play by the rules of the game, not a "I like this rule but not that rule", or "I am going to ignore these ones" type of game.

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. I am a competitive tournament player and while for the most part I think all the core rules should be a part of a tournament, I like balance to be a part of the game and if a particular set of rules doesn't mesh well from a balance perspective, they should not be included in a competitive setting.

      After all, just because it is in the main rulebook doesn't mean it is a good idea for tournaments/competitive settings (as you are arguing).

      Case in point is that there were rules for buildings and multiple detachments in 5th but they were not allowed in tournaments for various reasons. Previous editions had allies and come tournaments did not allow them. Also, as I mentioned above (I was the anonymous poster 2 posts up), how is it a good idea to let SW and IG ally making a super combo while Tyranids get nothing? Do you think it is a good idea to make the game unplayable on a competitive level for certain armies? Allies make the playing field more uneven rather than more balanced.

      Simply because a rule is in the rulebook does not automatically make it a good reason to include it in a competitive setting. The rule being conducive and balanced for a competitive setting should be the standard which is ultimately up to the tournament community.

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    5. Well, considering Nids are getting swappable Psychic powers from their HW, Elite, and Troops slots, flying deathstrike hard to hit MCs (up to 5), Genestealers who can reliably threaten vehicles, and a myriad of other buffs, maybe, just maybe, GW saw they were singling out one army and gave them a healthy dose of compensation for it?

      I agree with Natfka, its going to be a very naive TO that arbitrarily bans these changes, and only the narrow minded are going to think that they are "imbalancing" rather then balancing.

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  15. @Natfka:
    I'm not as optimistic as you about the DE in 6th. Sure, Haywire is nice, but keep in mind that it has no supression effect on the vehicle 5/6 times. So if it's not wrecked it's free to act next turn.

    Also I think the worse cover save and the worse FnP and the possibility to focus fire all favor Power Armor- and T4-armies.

    And finally, our Dark Lances get a nice boost. But our skimmers will die just as fast since glancing AV10 is still not a problem and with AP2 now getting +2 against us it's not looking good right now. And I'm not even sure that we get 3 Hull Points - our AV10-transports might as well get 2. And with the harsher effects for passengers of zooming skimmers...

    I don't know, looks like another MarineHammer-Edition to me...

    Lucius

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    1. Agreed DE don't really benefit from any changes but screwed by many. Lances ? Boost ? Seemsvto me they are exactly as effective as before ....

      Cannons/psyfles will be worse now ooh 2 to 3 glances. Job done....

      It's shower of shite

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    2. I was actually thinking this too and typed out a huge response on my phone and it wouldn't post X.x

      Anyway as pointed out haywires will be good, BUT:
      -DE light skimmers will be total rubbish.
      -If the 6" limit on vehicle movement to disembark is true even for fast/skimmers then wyches will be quite literally useless. (They would have been good with nades since wrecking vehicles wouldn't explode them, and they would be able to hit far more often).
      -The FNP nerf means a Haemonculus isn't worth the points for a wyche squad.
      -Lances (and blasters) are still overpriced since they don't seem to be getting any new benefit.

      If you can move 12" and shoot normally as passengers in OT vehicles it will be something but since you'll be dying so fast anyway...

      Honestly with the changes it's seeming more and more like a game just for marines and guard.
      2+ saves are becoming insanely good, bolters are getting better, ATSKNF is still huge and shooting becomes more deadly to lightly armoured infantry, light vehicles are good but only if they are really cheap.

      Are we really considering this a bonus to xenos players? We won't be seeing xenos getting battle brother imperial allies, but the bets are on that most imperial forces will be battle brothers with each other.

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    3. AP 2 is getting a buff, not sure how you missed that. And FNP is getting more reliable, if not as potent. Wiches with a 4++/5++ FNP against every weapon in the game not S6 or more? That's a buff brother, not a nerf.

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  16. You mean Tau-Hammer. Rapid firing firewarriors at 30 inches. Marker lights able to boost snap fire and overwatch, and make it easier to hit flyers. Broadsides can move 6 inches and hit with their normal BS if you have a few lights! Oh, and if someone does take an ethereal and they're killed then they confer preferred enemy to every tau unit. Even the Tau's worst unit buffs the army when it dies now!

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    1. Dude... I'd completely forgotten about markerlights :)

      I can see it now... c'mon Marine guy, challenge my Ethereal to a fight and see how nasty a bunch of p*ssed of Tau can be.

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    2. If you are only hit on a specific value then I can't see marker lights having an effect. They can boost BS all they want but needing a 6 to hit is a 6.
      They will help fire warriors, and I think Tau will be stronger, especially since it will take less markers to remove the 5+ saves.

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  17. LOL! Thunderhammers will sure break any tank in half quite easily now... Automatically cause a crew stunned result when hit...

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  18. Have to agree with the Dark Eldar excitement. Although random movement will be an assault nerf for me(go go below average dice rolls), I'm extremely excited to see if this brings back the return of the Gunboat.

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  19. Eldar bikes to become the reserve bane?

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  21. Eldar bikes might work due to having a save however DE reavers will be extinct ...

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    1. on the contrary, i think i'm about to use reavers en masse, probably leaving beasts at home due to the fleet nerf. we'll see.

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    2. I think beasts actually got better. The fact that they move 12" in the movement phase now means their average turn 2 charge range is longer.

      Plus beasts ignoring cover means they aren't slowed down by using to keep them alive longer. Also if they fact they ignore cover means they don't strike last when charging out/into it would get rid of one of the biggest weaknesses (no grenades).

      However I'm with you on reavers still being good (see my comment below).

      Rathstar

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    3. oh, i guess i missed the stuff about cavalry then.
      nevermind then, still good!

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  22. Wy would you do it ? they were merely ok before, nerfs to cover and FNP just make them expensive bolter food ?

    Care to explain your reasoning ?

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  23. I doubt the reavers will be extinct, particularly as they are the best heat lance platform (our only ap1 gun).

    I'll still be using a unit of 6 with 2 heat lances in my first 6th edition games. A longer turbo boost 1st turn to get into a better position, plus a 2D6 move in the assault phase after I see whether I've blown up a tank, and finally pre-measuring ensuring it's easy to get perfectly just within 9" for the melta shot. Only downside sompared to 5th edition is when they use their 2D6 fall back to get into terrain it's likely to only be a 5+ cover save rather than 4+.

    They're fragile, but so is everything in the DE list.

    Rathstar

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  24. basically it's a matter of tastes, and the fact that i never, never, managed to play good games with the usual lance and venom spam. lances that never pen when they hit, vehicles that never survive the first hails.
    i've learned to use bikes to bring meltas and make them effective, and survive till endgame, using a dark footdar sort of list. i'll stick to melta in 6th, as the ap1 bonus looks tasty on the pen table.

    reading all this stuff, seems obvious they get nerfed. just like the rest of the stuff you ppl, sadly, reported.

    gonna give a try to a close combat approach to reavers, and hellions also for their rumored extra attack.

    for the rest, i'm close to clueless. venoms, raiders and ravagers will fall as easily as before. close combat gets risky due to snapshot.
    wyches, beasts and other cc "specialists" having issues with assaulting distances.
    wracks' and homo's fnp nerfed
    will be fliers worth a try? sounds like so, for now.
    basic warrior spam then? :D
    as for chars... i'm looking with lustful eyes at duke and malys (if psyker are going to rule the table)

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  25. in any case, if there is a dawn of war sort of mission like before and the possibility to block units from entering the table, then that move+turbo crap looks almost autowin on turn 1 to me, granted the biker goes first of course

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  26. Has the AP "-" penalty on the roll on the vehicle damage tables been removed??

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  27. "but tournaments are about playing the game as it is"

    Wrong. Tournaments are about playing the game in a competitive (balanced) way. That's why special characters are banned in WFB. That's NOVA OPEN has their own missions, game lenghts and terrain system. That's why in my region units inside transports haven't been able to claim objectives during the last 12 months.

    You can bet your ass that allies will be banned in most tournaments if they unbalance the game, just like Dogs of War were banned in WFB tournaments. For all you that thought you could just patch up the weaks sides your army was designed to have, I'll fetch my violin.

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    1. You are going to be in the minority. Battle Bunkers are already declaring they will not be changing the core rules, and if allies are in, so will they at tournaments.

      Its OK though, if your region wants to play a certain way, or even if certain players want to. However, changing the core game how it was designed to be played always has its consequences, and most of them bad.

      Nova is not a good tournament to quote for your cause. Mission changes and terrain system were in place because of a lack of rules/ missions, not to change them. They play by the rulebook.

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    2. Exactly.I love how all these "competitive" players who have been exploiting the cheesiest tactics are crying foul the loudest. They don't give two shits about a "competitive" game. They've been exploiting the hell out of the cheesiest tactics they could find and are livid that everyone else will have access to these tactics without the giant 600 dollar investment of buying the chees de jour. Rich (or veteran enough to have collected a bunch of everything), uninspired, shitty netlisters are the ones bitching the most because they have the most to lose

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