There is one topic that is hitting people all over across the specturm of our hobby, and that is allies. I figured I would post up everything I really know about them here and some nice charts, because the levels of allies makes a big difference.

BTW, the pic above is the full 6th edition rulebook cover front to back.

Allies are taken as a seperate detachment from your regular force, meaning that you must take 1 HQ and 2 Troop from your regular chosen codex before you take a detachment of anything. Once that is done, you can take 1 HQ and 1 Troop choice of an allied detachment, and once complete it opens up an additional 1 Elite, 1 troop, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy  from the allied army codex. Note that as far as we know you cannot take special characters with an allied detachment.

There are some obvious restrictions.... These come in the form of three levels of allies. Lets look at it

via the Video release from GW... Glimpses of the Rulebook Allies Page
Units in your army treat allies of Convenience as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, targetted with psychic powers or have templates or blast markers placed on them. However, if a psychic power, scatering blast weapon or ability that effects an area hits soem of these allies of convience they will be affected along with any friendly or enemy units.

     Can't benefit from the Warlord Trait of an allied character
     Cannot be joined by an allied Independent character

Now that is directly from the video were we get to see the page of the rulebook. I am sure there are more rules we cannot see there.

This is what the rumors say
Battle Brothers: Good can join each others units with IC's and cast psychic powers as if they were friendly.

Allies of convienance: Cant join units or cast friendly powers

Desperate Allies: Have to roll if within 6" of an allied unit. if they roll a 1, they cannot do anything.

While the selection of allies appears to be huge at first glance, the chart I will be bringing up will shot it to be only viable with certain armies. Lets look at who is probably getting what..This chart is out of the rulebook.

This is a good representation of who will be on par with who. Grey Knights for instance have no Battle Brothers then. Dark Eldar get only Eldar, the rest is all desperate allies. Even Imperial Guard do not get as many as I would like to see, there is just a ton of blue and yellow on the chart.

We are looking at some serious tactical restrictions out there. Also remember that these additional detachments take up points. Quite a few in fact. List after list, I have found that at 2000pts and above... were we mostly are playing at, I am less inclined to take allies. What makes a bigger difference in the game than allies is opening up and doubling the FOC at these point levels. So Tyranids doubling up their FOC really makes some excellent choices.

So should these rules, which are not part of the core game be excluded from the tournament? Lets dive into that for a second. Lets start by saying that the new rules are designed around that as being part of it, by removing certain aspects of the game you are changing it drastically. It can be done, and I am sure some TO's will do it. The game in its core parts are written with some balance in mind, (you can argue that to the grave, but if we dont assume it is then tournaments are pointless anyways). Taking out sections like fortifications will allow flyers to dominate the game. There just is not enough anti-air in it. The first tournament to start screwing with the game and not allowing allies and fortifications, is going to see me bringing broken lists of flyers into it. Yes, I already have lists that will easily take advantage of these rules being altered. The game will break down. People will take ahold of any advantage they can, and when you start re-writing the game, (removing parts), you are asking for broken lists... far more than you will get otherwise.

Lets get into the positive, since I have been list making now for a bit.... Double FOC and Allies are in the same boat as they allow a greater flexibility in army types we will see on the tabletop. Its not all about the cinematic, although allies makes more sense this way, than it does limiting everyeone to one codex. The armies we will start seeing will contain an amazing diversity with these new rules. Already I have seen what my guard lists will like, and those lists are much different than they were only a few weeks ago. The amount of flexibility is amazing and fun and breathe some new life into the game.

Balance. I have said it before, that I truly beleive that allies and double FOC are the way to go. You did not see it much in 5th edition becuase the point level was above 2500pts before you could double your FOC. Now with it lowered into playable games, you will get so much more life out of your armies, tactical holes in it will be able to be possibly filled. There will always be some weakness to your list, after all you only have as many points as you did before.

Last notes:
Doubling your FOC far outwieghs allied advantages, but allies are still nice. A more varied game out of codices and the rulebook is what we are dying for, but I know change is hard. I think of us in 5th edition as living within a tightly confined box, and with 6th edition, we can finally break those boundries, tear open the box, and expand our game.

So my suggestion, give it a chance. Take a deep breath, open your mind to the possibilities and embrace them. This is going to be a truly great game.


50 Comments:

  1. Do we even know how Allies Rules are rolled in, yet? Everyone's making a HUGE deal out of them, but in WHFB 8E, the rules are there only to manage how different armies interact when allied together for whatever reason. There's guarantee or promise that you'll be able to use them in every game, just that hey, if it happens, here's how it plays out.

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    1. Everything I have seen points towards this being available every game, and, in my opinion, it should.

      I have waited forever to make a combined space marine and imperial guard army.

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  2. I agree, it will def expand the game!

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    1. DO YOU KNOW THAT CHRISTIANITY IS CORRECT? THE WORLD AROUND US REVEALS THAT GOD DOES EXIST, AND THE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE REVEALS THAT JESUS CHRIST REALLY DID COME TO THIS EARTH AND THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE THAT HE PHYSCALLY ROSE FROM THE DEAD.
      JESUS IS COMING AGAIN AND THE SIGNS OF THE END TIMES THAT WERE FORETOLD IN THE BIBLE ARE COMMING TO PASS, AND THAT ISLAM IS THE ANTICHRIST SYSTEM!

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  3. Hmmm nice article man! Also on GW theres a littke pic of the back of the book. Also some other merchandise like a beanie....allies is gonna be fun but doubling the foc is gonna make things crazy fun! Cant wait!

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  4. Do we have confirmation that you can't use SCs as allies?

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    1. To the contrary, it is almost certain you can. At least considering the fact that GW is offering SC HQ's under the "Allies" page.

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    2. That's what I thought, but it's so hard to sort out who to believe these days. Happy to hear, but I'm still going to wait till I have the book in hand before I purchase Logan and Commander Farsight :P

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    3. Better to be safe than sorry. That said, I've adopted the rumor filtering policy of: "How many more models will GW sell if this is true?" Seems to have worked so far...

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  5. Space Marines with IG tanks = the new cheese

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    1. but you have to buy 1 IG Hq and 1 IG troop choice to get 1 IG Heavy support slot...so your already paying between 200 - 300 points before you buy your tanks...dont know if it will be that viable in low point games :)

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    2. Space Marines with IG tanks = the way Imperial Armies have always been portrayed in the fluff...

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    3. Agreed. And let's not forget using IG troops as cannonfodder/screens. That is very fluffy too. I love how there's almost 0 argument against allies fluff-wise.

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    4. I still think it ridiculous how sm can ally with orks fluff wise. Those 2 armagedon wars were nothing?!

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    5. You can take an IG HQ and Troop for 120 points. They would be pretty worthless, but that is the minimum.

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    6. @ Lokken - A Priest/Techpriest and a squad of vets will set you back 115 points. Add in three Vendetta's at 390 for 505 points. In theory, you can now ditch a couple of Las-plasbacks and a Landraider and you're nearly even on points, and added some fast, flying transports which bring nine Lascannons along to the party. Who can say 'Sixes to hit and squadron rules?' :)

      I Agree with Natfka, IG is the way to go if you'r looking to bring in allies. Need a bigger head count? Check. Want 13 scoring units from a single troop choice? Check. Want some big guns? check check check. How about a few vehicle squadrons? you got it, thats a check too. Besides close combat potential, when you can 'cherry pick' only a few units, there is no dex offering you more bang for your book.

      I don't mind this, as it fits the fluff. You can hardly hack the head of an heritic in the galaxy without being within a stones throw of a guard settlement. And being mere humans makes them very susceptable to to the pull of chaos (or the greater good, or the Waaaagh!) so it fits the fluff to see them as the most used allies.

      My concern re allies is not the creation of unbeatable lists, its the worry some Codexes may start to fade away only appearing as allies, and guard are the prime example. People play guard to get access to the heavy hitters. Give assess to those heavy hitters across the board, and why bother with a dedicated guard list? with a HQ, 2 troop, heavy, fast and elites choices combined with the vehicle squadrons and infantry platoons means the allies FOC is enough to build nearly any guard list you want! Thus freeing up your compulsaries for another army.

      Seeing that Sisters and Guard are battle brothers (outrageous sexism!) and are my two principle armies, I can't see me dragging out a full guard list in 6th for some time. I'll have me a platoon for cheap scorers and mortar spam, some leman russes to replace the ever unreliable exorcists and some Vendettas for my Battle sister squads. Throw in a couple of dominion squads and thats 5 scouting vehicles full of melta coming in your face whilst anything else gets plasma blasted and mortered off the board!

      Can't wait! But sad for my guard.

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    7. Wow, I think just the opposite. My two main armies are IG and Space Wolves. If I take out some chimera vets, I can add a Rune Priest and two squads of Grey Hunters in Rhinos for the only thing my army lacks: mobile in your face punch. Instead of IG fading away, I think you will see even more lists with some added allies to fill in around the edges.

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    8. JayDee- They are Desperate Allies meaning they only fight if they absolutely must (like maybe against a Chaos invasion). Orks and IG make sense as allies of convenience because neither are fanatical whackjobs like the Space Marines.

      Maybe I wouldn't mind so much not allowing Desparate Allies in tournaments. They should probably be relegated to fluffy games vs. specific opponents.

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    9. @Robert, Well it cheers me up to be proven wrong! :) I don't consider Melta/Plasma vets to be 'standard' guard infantry. I limit myself to one veteran squad per Platoon for my own 'it just isn't right' reasons, which is probably why I see swapping out my platoons for powered armoured sisters as a boon! Plus, there is so much combat nastiness waiting to be unleashed from the sisters dex now rage doesn't mean you run around like a headless chicken all game!

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    10. Well exorcists might be a good choice for HW slot as they are AP1, so no downgrade in vehicle damage potential. They still aren't good vs AV13/14 though.

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    11. Oh, Space Marines & IG tanks? Sure, buy a basic platoon (Cmd squad + 2 Infantry squads) with the 3 Chimeras to carry them. 295 points is all. One FoC, three scoring units, three tanks. Need an HQ? BN command and Chimera bring it up to 400, so four tanks. Now, start adding on firepower to that, easy enough. You get help by being able to toss your Rhinos/Razorbacks for Chimeras, which just happen to let you stick a couple of ICs with your 10 man squad...

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    12. @Loopy - Orcs not fanatical whackjobs? What universe do you come from! And as for Imperial Guard being fanatics, that varies. ;)

      Anyway, for Imperial Guard and Orks to be "Allies of Convenience", no that's a no-no for me. Will never build such a list, as they should be "Desperate Allies", and critizise anyone (including GW) that states anything different. Orks do take over human planets, but then they enslave the population, and don't leave the fun fighting to anyone else but themselves; and the Imperials know this. However, having unscrupulous Imperial Guard captains hiring in a few Ork mercs would be in line, but they wouldn't turn their backs to them! (Hence "Desperate Allies" and not "Come the Apocalypse".)

      However, the Imperial Guard should have Tau as Battlebrothers, as it is even in their Lore that they have had Imperial planets come over to the Tau and fought as part of their armies. (Even if they are usually crushed by Space Marine chapters in the end.)

      I'm also a bit surprised about Tau having Space Marines as "Battlebrothers" (but no other special Space Marine Chapter) and Chaos Space Marines as "Allies of Convenience"... Even though they are naive enough to ally as freely as they do, they should have learned by now that all Chaos are bad, especially after the Eye of Terror campaign. Of have I missed some Lore? And as for Space Marines... no, there is no reason the Tau would be Battlebrothers with every regular Space Marine Company in the galaxy, "Allies of Convenience" is enough.

      So, Imperial Guard should downgrade Orks and upgrade Tau. And Tau should downgrade Space Marines (Chaos or not) and upgrade Imperial Guard.

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  6. If Allies are a part of the standard rules, and they make the game more fun, I plan on boycotting any tournament that doesn't allow them. This is especially true if they add balance for weaker armies and give them a better chance in tournament play.

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    1. Well GW held events look like they will have them in. Spoke to Warhammer world today and they gave me this response to the question below (talking about the 40k doubles event at Warhammer world)

      Q:
      ...And finally, looking at the new White Dwarf and the review of 6th edition, it looks as if allies will be well and truly in 6th Edition. Will the Allies rule be eligible for use in the tournament? i.e. could we potential fight an army consisting of a force of Blood Angels with Space Marine allies and a force of Space Wolves with Grey Knights allies? Will the rulebook allies matrix potentially alter the matrix published on the event guide i.e. could our army potentially be illegal under a new system of allies? And will any specific allies rules defined in the new rulebook, such as the way independent characters and transports interact between allies, override the existing rulings (see the bottom of this Email string from Adam @ Events team) and details laid out in the events pack?


      A:
      Ahh haa. Well this one is a bit of a stickler. The best answer I can give you is that as soon as we have actually gotten our copy of the rulebook, we will digest it and get this question answered for you and lots of other people as quickly as possible! We will print an FaQ if necessary and the likelihood is that we will do a "Shotgun" approach and blast the answer out over Facebook and the GW website rather than have to send 5 bazillion individual emails. I hope you dont mind too much.

      I can pretty much guarantee you that we will not be making any exceptions from what is written in the new rulebook. We will use it word for word until we release its first set of FaQ's/Erratas (fingers crossed it wont need them!), but for the time being im afraid the answer is we simply don't know!

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    2. The first sentance of the second para is the key 'I can pretty much guarantee you that we will not be making any exceptions from what is written in the new rulebook' - To me that says if allies are in the rulebook, they are in the tourneys

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  7. There is no doubling of FOC. That is an exaggeration. You can extend your FOC in a limited fashion but this requires taking one extra troop choice and HQ.

    An extra troop choice is not necessarily something you might want and IMO is part of the price for extending the FOC in a limited fashion. I like it.

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    1. These rules are amazing for IG. I often take two HQ anyway, and 4 troop choices? Please, I never roll without at least 5. But now, if I organize things correctly, I can take 6 LRBT's without having to squadron them. Or two Manticores and 4 Hydras. The possibilities are endless. To me it totally removes the abomination that is the Leafblower list and allows for incredibly fluffy armies that are effective too. Think Gaunt and the Narmenian Tanks.

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    2. Incorrect! You can double up the FOC once you fill up the Primary Detachment of the FOC. I quote from page 110 of the new rulebook(i got mine a day early for prepaying): in bold: "PLAYING A GAME OF 2,000 POINTS OR MORE, YOU CAN TAKE AN ADDIFITONAL PRIMARY DETACHMENT." Meaning you get a full two extra HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elite, 3 FA and 3 HS plus another full allied detachment and Fortification.....

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    3. Incorrect! You can double up the FOC once you fill up the Primary Detachment of the FOC. I quote from page 110 of the new rulebook(i got mine a day early for prepaying): in bold: "PLAYING A GAME OF 2,000 POINTS OR MORE, YOU CAN TAKE AN ADDIFITONAL PRIMARY DETACHMENT." Meaning you get a full two extra HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elite, 3 FA and 3 HS plus another full allied detachment and Fortification.....

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  8. I'm excited, suddenly I can use the random Ork and Dark Eldar models I have lying around, or build a traitor guard contingent, work on expanding my Astral Claws to a Tyrant's legion, and finally actually play with my great unclean one and plague bearers. I'm excited. If no special characters are allowed, it will make my Daemon allies choices easier (Great Unclean One if Epidemius isn't available) and having 2 troops means I can take both Plague Bearers and Nurglings in my fluffy list.

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    1. Fellow Anon, you have a choice between Allies, or Double your FOC for your core army. That's what they mean by doubling the FOC. You get TWO full FOC if you want them.

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  9. Fellow Anon, you have a choice between Allies, or Double your FOC for your core army. That's what they mean by doubling the FOC. You get TWO full FOC if you want them.

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    1. Don't think the Double FOC OR Allies is made clear enough in this post. Is that really legit - it is Allies where you extend your FOC or you can simply double it???

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    2. So by doubling do you mean with Space Marines I can have 4 combat squads of marines a couple of HQ choices and then 6 Storm Talons?

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  10. The thingbisbthe penalty for the Desperate Allies isnt even bad. It only happens if im in 6in...and evem then only a 1/6 chance of bad stuff..so im deffinately taking DKoK and necrons now

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  11. I'm assuming, "fluff wise", a lot of these ally matrix charts are not supposed to be taken literally. I think it stands more for a representation of what sorts of units could be integrated into other armies, not necessarily the racial parleys and codes between armies; for example, power-armoured orks with looted land raiders for orks/space marine allies, orks riding cyborg carnifexes controlled by a nearby big mek and his synthetic synapse generating warp field device or some other crazy justification for orks and tyranids working together, grots with looted eldar weapons for eldar/ork alliances, etc. Whether or not this will actually pan out in the minds and conversion abilities of the players is another question entirely. Gene Stealer cults come to mind.

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  13. Anyone seen anything about having multiple allies in one army, or is the "allies" a 0-1 deal? Can't recall. Just want to know how deep this rabbit hole goes.

    And for the record, it will take less than a week for someone to brutally break the game somehow. GW just doesn't write enough tight rules to cover the possible exploits and it will take them forever to update the FAQs (after the initial release).

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  14. Hmm, so I cannot ally two armies of the same type? Good to know, there was rumor that such might be possible.

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  15. Natfka, Love your blog and information you provide, your site is a real asset to the hobby. That said, I have to respectfully disagree on your analysis and conclusions regarding Allies.

    "The game in its core parts are written with some balance in mind". At its core, I would agree, but the problem originates from codex balance becoming so erratic and inconsistant as codex rules trump BRB rules. What this highlights is that GW can't write balanced codexes to the point that they felt compelled to to reintroduce Allies back to "level the field" due to their own mismanagement of the codex power level (and of course to meet their primary goal of selling more models, which goes without saying).

    "Doubling your FOC far outwieghs allied advantages"
    I gotta call B.S. on this... Allies allow players to "plug the holes" of the inbuilt weaknesses of their armies with the strengths from another. Doubling FOC doesn't, you are left with the same inbuilt weaknesses.

    "So Tyranids doubling up their FOC really makes some excellent choices" Like what? As a Tyranid player myself, I have to say this doesn't give us anything awesomepants...I'm not saying that the extra Elite slot won't come in handy, but we still can't overcome the inbuilt weaknesses of the codex (like lacking tools to reliably pop vehicles at range, and not being as mobile as mech armies). In the big picture the inclusion of Allies, especially at the Battle Brothers level, primarily benefits Imperial armies (with Tau being the only notable Xeno exception). So what we have is currently stong codexes being able to ally with one another closer than their Xeno "equvilants" (and I use that term loosely because they really aren't anymore). I'm trying really hard not to be all doom and gloom, and maybe the rest of the 6th Ed. BRB will make more sense of this, but on its face as it looks now, the strong get stronger, and the weak get left behind.

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    1. I don't think GW has only advantaged the Imperium, I was really looking forward to having some GK allies, but they are not BB with marines, in fact BA trust them as mucha as Eldar apparently !! (big fluff mistake IMO).

      Dark Eldar are looking great in this new edition, as well as Necrons (pop land raiders with 4 6's t glance). Tyranids will not have to fear lightning claw terminators (AP3), and can attack before the termie fists and hammers...Also you got some nice rules for rage and flying monstrous creatures !!

      Cheer up buddy ! I'm sure everything will be great !

      PS: that said I would like to know how tyranids will cope with flyers...hope they get one too ! (giant flying allien...sounds good!)

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    2. don't forget that no one knows the GK exist...

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  16. Here's my conundrum...I don't see anywhere that you can take an allied detachment of the same army your playing in the first place. Every spot on the chart is taken up by an icon designating the level of cooperation of each army...except the same army you are looking at! This leads me to believe that you cannot take an allied detachment of your own army...ie: Tyranids can't take a detachment of Tyranids to gain an additional FOC.

    Now, I could've wrong here, but can someone please point out to me the confirmed rule from the rulebook that says this, either way?

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    1. Yeh, without that this doubling FOC things sounds like nonsense.

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  17. From what I've been reading on the various forums and rumor sites it's that at 2000 pts you get a second FOC chart (meaning 2 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elite, etc.) for you main army. Allies can be used at any point cost. I haven't seen anything about if only one ally can be used or not. Would really like my CSM to have Daemon and Traitor Guard allies. We won't really know if any of this is true until we have the book in our hands though.

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  18. Would Imperial Guard Basilisks be able to use Grey Knights Servo Skulls?

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  19. orks could be great allies for imperial l guard, almost a free bubble wrap with boyz! Also consider the benefit you have with snap shots+ shoota, it's almost a free shooting phase , from bs 2 to 1... also power klaws will be ap 2 !
    Derre

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  20. You may only have one type of ally not two....and the doubling up of FOC also does include the doubling up of the ally too....all of it is covered on pages 108 to 113 of the new rule book. I have mine already.

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  21. ok so i can have a farseer acompanied by a unit of incubus?. can they use each others transport's

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    1. Yes.

      However, that Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar are "Battlebrothers" is against the Lore, as the Dark Eldar don't respect the Craftworlders, and the Craftworlders don't trust the Dark Eldar enough to be in their units as they would fear to be stabbed in their backs by these homocidal and treacherous psychic vampires.

      More correctly should be:

      - Craftworld Eldar Allies of Convenience with Dark Eldar
      - Craftworld Eldar Battlebrothers with Corsair Eldar
      - Dark Eldar Battlebrothers wiht Corsair Eldar

      So, this is in just until they make a proper Corsair Codex, I guess. Forgeworld is not 100% GW approved after all.

      The Corsairs should probably also get their own status with other races as well, with some the same status as Craftworlders and with some as Dark Eldar. As Mercs they could probably have "Allies of Convenience" with all armies that have either Eldar or Dark Eldar as such, which includes downgrading Battlebrothers with Tau to that as well. This leaves Orks and Sisters of Battle as "Desperate Allies", and Necrons, Chaos Daemons, Chaos Space Marines and Tyranids as "Come the Apocalypse" (the Corsairs still fear Chaos more than the Dark Eldar).

      There is also a bit of room left for Exodite armies and full Harlequin Masques for new Eldar Codexes as well. (Space Marines got plenty of Codex variants, so why not Eldar too?) Exodites should then be a bit like Craftworld Eldar but a bit more xenophobic (mainly fight to protect their homes, and don't like to share worlds), and Harlequins being foremost a Ally army that likes to fight Chaos, with similar ally list as the Corsairs, apart from possibly having Grey Knights as Battlebrothers.

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