We have all been waiting for the introduction of Flakk Missiles for our armies to combat those pesky flyers from wrecking out day, and it looks like we finally have some information on them. So take a look.


Please remember that these are rumors. This also includes some other anti-air rumors as well.

Digging through comments is not something everyone does for every scrap of rumor that just might drop, so I figured it was good to post them up. This way the discussion takes place centered around Flakk and other anti-air weapons.

via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)
From our Dark Angels Rumors Earlier

Whirl Wind AA will have the option as an upgrade and 3 different types of missile to choose before the game.
Replace both Castellan and Vengeance with Helios Missile launcher for free.  Heavy 1, Twin Linked, Skyfire Interceptor

Devastators can upgrade to take flakk missiles at +5 points per model, replaces Krak and Frag options.

via Faeit 212
From the Comment Section via Anonymous Commentor

there was an iteration of playtest where you replaced only krak with flakk and was free. because there is no modelling difference, players could (without adjusting their list) swap to flakk when they saw / suspected lots of flyers.

In the end it was simplified to being an outright replacement of both for all missiles in the squad, at a cost to avoid the above. Either it's Flakk or it's Standard.

Flakk have also (as a whole) been reduced in effectiveness as they were Imperium only, and the GW designer involvement wanted to steer away from the Imperium having all the tricks.

If you want to take out flyers, you need to either run flyers yourself or dedicated units / vehicles that are ground to air.

This levels the playing field for all races who will each get at least 1 flyer, and 1 ground to air unit that can semi-function ground to ground.

Infantry just don't do that well against Flyers.

I think guard will get more use out of Flakk than Marines.

The Tempest which can come in squadrons and is cheaper than a storm talon though less versatile do an excellent job at shooting down Night/Doom Scythes.

Sorry no Storm Talon or Storm Raven for DA.

And the Helios' interceptor rule makes it really solid, since unlike the Hydra it can still shoot at light armor in the event that there's no flyers (or shoot light armor, then again in the enemy's movement phase).

Also, it can be taken as 1-3 vehicle squadron for 1 Heavy Support.


Separate Anonymous Comment

(in response to the why the tempest?)
It's no different than the Vendetta/Valkyrie or the Hydra for Imperial Guard.

It's also plastic, which makes it more available.

(For the Hyperios whirlwind it's just a different set of warheads you can glue or magnet in).

Beyond that there are still two new, unique units which are very cool


62 Comments:

  1. Replies
    1. haha. nice :)

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    2. Bring your knee pads?

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    3. I still dont like anons -.- but thanks

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    4. Aww! That hurts. But we all love your witty first comments.. *sobs*

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  2. Like he's gonna make it in time

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  3. Interesting Picture. I was a 7212 Stinger Gunner in the U.S. Marine Corps. I fired two of them. The first one failed and blew up right infront of my instructor and me, the second blew the training target.

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    Replies
    1. That is not a very good success rate, 50% :(

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    2. At least it wasn't a plasma gun. Then that botch might have killed you.

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    3. Sounds like IG shooting to me.

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  4. Did we not hear before though that GW were going to stop with using FW stuff?

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    Replies
    1. Not from GW or FW.

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    2. Actually FW said so in a gamesday Video in Youtube. Think it was 2011 uk

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  5. Personally, I see no reason to change the missle pod physically. If you paid the points and you have a middlepod that should be enough.

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    1. WYSIWYG is very important. At the start of the game you can tell someone "this chainsword is actually a power fist," and have it on your list, and show your opponent your list, but don't be surprised when he is shocked you have a power fist when he charges you later in the game.

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    2. Yes, WYSIWYG is important but I disagree with your example.

      A chainsword that is called a powerfist is a proxie and I don't think Cain is trying to site 'proxies'.

      The arrangement of the bumps large/small or few/many on the missile pods for Whirlwind/other stuff can count-as for 'many variations' of Imperial munitions.

      I also include the idea that having to magnetize 'stuff' or buy all the variations of 'stuff' is laborious and expensive.

      I think we, as a community, can cut some slack on some things and I think the 'missile' thing is one of them.

      I'll be in some corner...

      CK

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    3. Its just a rumor still.
      I can See it go either Way maybe they want to sell New Kits with AA but then i would say Way Not a lakkturret on s rhino?
      Or they will do what we had Before with different ammo Typs on WW were you say it Before the Game.
      No wysiwyg is need!
      That only applys for when you have actually different Modeled weapons. You dont Need to See the frag grenades on youre SM!

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  6. "I think guard will get more use out of Flakk than Marines."

    There is still that rumour that when 6th ed starter drops, there will be an FAQ mass update that will have some rebalance and unit changes and such. I am hopeful that this will include Flakk Rockets from my Guard. if that's the case, then my heavy weapons squads will likely load up on some Flakks and be done with it.

    If the rumour comes to pass.

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    1. I don't understand how Guard really needs flakk missiles that bad. You guys have one of the cheesiest flyers ever, lots of mass str 6 shooting, orders for rerolls, Hydras (the AA vehicle, might be getting the name wrong).

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    2. *cough, Elysians cough*

      Yes I can get more Valk/Vendetta/Vultures than anyone, but I usually need them to do what they are really good at, support the boots.

      Flakk missiles would be a nice option.

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    3. Some of us refuse to use cretin super-cheese aircraft, and hope they get rebalance in the future.

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    4. It's not cheese, it's superior- the Imp Guard has superior everything: Superior numbers, superior artillery, superior flashlights, superior casualties... :P

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  7. I play Tau and the few armies I do well agents now have flyers. Turn 1 I do well taking out stuff here and there. Thin BAM flyer, and its over. I think GW needs to get other flyers out very soon or a way to even the playing field with out paying for a fortification.

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    1. You could bring either Remoras or a Barracuda...

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    2. well some people don't like playing with forgeworld stuff and the barracude only has 2 hp's and the remora hasn't been given any but I say it has 2 aswell.

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    3. But FW isnt exactly affordable for everyone, and you need opponents permission...

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    4. All FW stuff was approved by GW in normal games, so you don't actually NEED permission

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    5. What really surprises me is that the Skyray was introduced in Imperial Armor 3 as causing great concern for Imperial pilots, as it is primarily designed for the AA role.

      I haven't checked yet, but is there no AA capability in the Skyray at present?

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    6. "All FW stuff was approved by GW in normal games, so you don't actually NEED permission"

      I still haven't found any official conformation of that actually in writing by GW.
      Not saying it's wrong, I absolutely hope it is right (I want my blight drones no questions asked dag nammit!). I have probs missed it somehow but could someone please point me in the direction of whatever it is that 100% confirms this?

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    7. Imperial armor aeronautica explains the official stamp in One of the First Pages.

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    8. I meant in general so people don't like putting FW in their lists and the skyway in apoc can be upgrade to aa mount

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  8. Geez, would they just pass them out already... Just 1 unit per army is all you need so airborne armies don't swarm those without.

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  9. Was playing in a doubles tourney the other week. One of the teams took a deathscythe and the d.eldar flyer. The flyers killed about 5 infantry models the entire game. Flyers arent that bad, just ignore them.

    Flying monsterous creatures on the other and are dirt.

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    1. Try ignoring a Storm Raven. It will eat you for lunch and poop out marines and a dreadnought. I have never had a Storm Raven not earn its points back with a single turn of firing in 6th Ed.

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    2. I kinda hope vanilla marines will get access to the stormraven at some point in the future. The model is quite ugly but its battlefield role is fantastic. Stormtalon is good, too, but can't drop a dread onto some poor fool's head.

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    3. Well with AV 12 allround machinespirit and you can now Take 4. Its clearlly the go to Imba Unit in the Game. I would Even say its better than Vendetta.
      And with not much AA Around we will See stormraven SPAM dominate very soon!

      I Wonder if the pricehike on Stormravens.....
      Oh no they wouldnt make SM faceroll Army again or would they....?????

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    4. Poped a Storm Raven the turn it arrived my last tournie...lol, Bloodthirster with daemonic might FTW, no skyfire for daemons and dont need it....lol

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  10. While it does SEEM to be very balanced to swap your missiles for a single shot skyfire autocannon shot that'll ignore having to hit 6's. But with the advancement of flyers in 6TH making headway over tanks, there is no real guarantee that you'll even see a flyer. Even under a blue moon. So why would I pay for my guys to swap their equipment when I could pay for a quad-fire autocannon or Icarus Lascannon, both of which having Skyfire that would deal a lot more damage and/or more succesful hit + wound ratios than a single S7 AP4 weapon? It just doesn't seem right to sacrifice something for something else that just might never even be used, i.e. the flyer might not even make it to the board, deep-striking off-board, or your guys armed with the flakk missiles get killed or stuck in combat because those weapons weren't that useful against land forces. Anyway ranting aside I think having Flakk is good but should be free or swapping a SINGLE missile for free i.e. changing your frag missile for a flakk + krak combo for the single gun sounds a lot more tactical in choice and suits how you want them to be used. +RANT OVER+

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    1. Doesn't seem balanced to me at all.
      "Okay guys, not only do you have to pay 5 pts per model to have a way of taking fliers out; but you also need to sacrifice the ability to tackle any ground targets at all"

      Dev/Havocs are already expensive enough, then according to rumours I need to (for 5 pts a model) kit them out to take out the 1, maybe 2 fliers my enemy has? Nah I'd rather stick with the utility of having frag and krak, and my expensive unit not becoming useless after killing 1 vehicle.

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    2. The reason you wouldn't take just a quad gun is because that thing will only ever kill one flyer at most if your opponent is intelligent. Way too easy to kill, having a squad or two of flak would allow you to deal with more than one flyer, safe guarding you against lists that are gaining popularity such as the daemon flying circus, tyranid flees, or the other flyer spam lists of guard or necrons. It's a safeguard, just like psychic defense used to be, an ohm case of choice so that you can deal with such an army. The question is do you want to lose your ability against ground pounders, and at least right now the answer is probably yes until flyers go away dye to the meta game. perhaps another reason to replace three missiles is so that you can assert your own dominance in the air. Everyone knows there is a certain Rick, paper, scissors element in list building and thus is one of those cases. Hopefully you would then have enough other units in your list to deal with other armies a well (guard likely being the best at this though that bit is uncertain). As I see it you would want to take more than one squad and a quad gun for redundancy in case of unforseen circumstances.

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    3. Intresting.... I dont think Flak is Way to go...Ever
      But if it Plays Out like you say
      Just go hord
      So many cheap Units that you cant be wipped Out.
      A player that Gose Flyer heavy cant win the ground war. And a AA going Player will have Less to Hold you of.

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  11. I see this topic is generating a lot of flakk....

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    1. Dudes are on Krak.

      -Fred

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    2. Cut it out, or I'll Frag you both!

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  12. "Infantry just don't do that well against Flyers."

    Nor should they. Though I think flyers could use a points hike. Not too drastic, but enough to make you think twice about flyer spam.

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    1. Flyers mostly are reasonably priced, you are looking at almost 200 points for a fully missiled up Voidraven, and it's only got 11 max armour, and no option to go hover mode to spin on a dime and avoid leaving the board if it's far enough away from things to be safe.

      The Stormraven is similarly expensive, even the Stormtalon and Ork aircraft are fairly costly for what they pack.

      Meanwhile the Valkyrie/Vendetta was undercosted when it was released and just acted as a fast skimmer, let alone now with all the new found 6th edition buffs to speed, durability, and weapon output.

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    2. Anon is right - flyers are actually TOO expensive with the Vendetta and Nightscythe being the disgusting exceptions.

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  13. "and the GW designer involvement wanted to steer away from the Imperium having all the tricks."

    I find this the hardest part of this post to believe.

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    1. I thought the same thing. Still I think after the new FAQs come out I'll still be relying on Forgeworld to compete.

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  14. Sounds like GW favouring some armies while stuffing others right up the wazoo again.

    *cough* Daemons *cough*

    Still if rumours are correct that we are getting a new codex in the not too far future I can bide my time. Its all part of the plan after all.

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  15. Ugh, a one shot weapon that shoots up is no answer to flyers. The new whirl wind is going to absolutely suck if it has only one shot per frame against air. With two twin linked missiles it's very decent and feels Almost well balanced as a fragile answer to fliers and light av at almost 100 points, but with one twin linked shot, do they comprehend how many points worth of whirlwinds it will take to reliably take down a vendetta? Or like, even a rhino? And all the rest it does is try not to get shot.

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  16. I see the flakk or standard as a realistic gw move. Its the same mentality as to why the hydra didn't get interceptor.

    Frankly, if I had all it would be auto include x3

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  17. Thinking about it, I totally agree with the flakk or standard as well. To hit a flyer your launcher would need sophisticated tracking technology. It is dang near impossible to dumb fire a missile and hit a Flyer unless it was stationary on the ground, and even THAT would take a 3+ =).

    The systems in the Marine Launcher do not have tracking technology, otherwise they would hit on a 2+. So a whole new weapon system would have to be included or added to the existing system to make a flakk missile happen.

    As a sidenote, the reason a Stinger cannot generally shoot Vehicles is because the missile pops out of the tube via a small drive motor (you can see it behind the missile, and note the missile has not flamed up yet) falls significantly near the ground and then blasts up to the sky. If you were aimed at ground levelthe missile would hit the deck. Bad news there.

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    1. I think you maybe thinking of FGM-148 Javlin when you talk of a significant fall. Stinger is very good at engaging ground targets but is severally limited in it armour defeating capability.

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    2. The javelin does that and it pops brdm tanks like nothing. Then again they are probably av10 all around.

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    3. No, Im pretty sure its the FIM-92 Stinger, since my job for 3 years was to shoot...stingers....

      Please never base ANY weapon knowledge off of Modern Warfare.

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  18. Little confused about the design ideology:
    "People are complaining only Imperials get to make any army they want and have superior options. This stops here! No-one gets to build an army that can stop flyers without MORE FLYERS! Oh, by the way Jeff, did that design for the flying Baneblade come through for the next Guard codex?"

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    1. Not sure any army can tackle the necron airforce though. Even 3 vendetta squadrons wouldn't have the firepower.

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    2. My IG friend easily pops Necron flying circus. 2 Vendettas, 2 hydras and aegis do the job.

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    3. There's no point in taking more than 3 Vendettas IMO, squadrons still have to fire at the same target. To be totally honest though, mech is still good against flyers, as are TL assault cannons/autocannons which most armies have, or at least an equivalent. Unless your army is built off small amounts of elite units, Necron air forces shouldn't bother you hugely (though they're still too good IMO).

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    4. How does he fair in tourney play though?

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