So yesterday we saw some of the pics regarding the rules from the starter set. While they were the basic rules, there was some confusion on the hellbrute and its number of base attacks, as well as what is going on with Chosen and their leadership. This set clears those issues up, and gives some more insight to the upcoming Chaos Marine Codex.


Please remember that these are rumors.

via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)
Chaos will not spend long without in-game rules for Cultists and the Hellbrute.  Both are included in the new codex.  No rules supplement is coming in the October White Dwarf.  Figure it out.

Hellbrutes are 2 attack base, +1 for each close combat weapon they take, meaning 3 with one CCW (such as the one in the DV Box) and 4 if you take two.

Chosen are all, in effect, "Champions," they don't have a Champion Champion, that would be a Chaos Lord.  Hence why it's 2 attacks base.

On the whole, Leadership has gone down here and there for Chaos Marines to represent the fact that they think for themselves and believe that running away and saving your ass is the better part of valour.

There are ways around this, through Marks and even the presence of Characters (who are Fearless and confer it in a bubble), because no one wants to piss off their Chaos Lord.

The DV box set doesn't complicate the game with points, as it pre-assigns all of the models on a per scenerio basis.

Everyone needs to calm down and consider that you "got the boxed set a few weeks early" in essence, not that the Chaos codex is "a few weeks late."

If you like the concept that Chaos Space Marines are malignant forces, tainted and changed by the warp and their dark worship hellbent on nothing but seeing the galaxy burn through whatever is their favorite means, you will be very happy with the new codex.

If you wanted evil space marines who are a tactical spear tip strike force, then you will be disappointed.

The new chaos is an evolved version of what you had before, and nothing like space marines except being WS/BS/S/T 4 in power armor.

57 Comments:

  1. I would just like to add that I need a few extra arms to finish all the chaos models I get these days if the codex should hit next month.
    And I can't even decide what I should paint first -.-

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  2. Can't wait for the codex

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  3. skipped all the points i cared about... shotguns strength 4?!?!!

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    1. I don't get it. Are you complaining that they're str 4?

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    2. No, more that cultists get S4 shotties; scout marines get S4 shotties, guard vets get S3 shotties :(

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    3. Well in this case it kinda makes sense. No point giving the leader in a squad of autoguns a 12 inch range autogun basically.

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    4. Chaos Marines don't need their scout shotguns anymore so they give them away to cultists, the loyalists are still using theirs (or so the codex would have you believe, I defy you to find a player who would use them, especailly with the new Rapid Fire rules)

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    5. I don't see the big deal here. Sure, the leader of your cultists gets a str 4 shotgun. If you max out your troop slots, that means you'll get a grand whopping total of 6 shotguns, which act like bolters within 12" range, so you're actually losing shots at longer range.

      What's the big deal?

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    6. It's a difference between a str 3 shot at 24 inches, or 2 at 12; or 2 str 4 shots at 12 inches. In a spammy unit like cultists; it's nice to have anything that increases your firepower.

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    7. It's 2 str 4 shots. You're not going to damage anything. You're rolling 4's to hit to begin with, and then 4's to wound. If it costs any extra points, I'd spend those points elsewhere on something useful, y'know, like a Plasma Gun.

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  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  5. The last three paragraphs made my day. It's just what I wanted. Hope it is confirmed.

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  6. Anywho - I really hope they are using this new edition to move the time line along. If Chaos is bringing back the flavor but changing the playstyle, I don't see this as a bad thing. Now just kill off Abaddon and give us a new civil war in Chaos. That would be epic.

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    1. Nope, timeline still stops at the 13th Black Crusade. Anybody that tells you differently is flat out lying.

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    2. there have been rumors that will bump the timeline forward. Reliable ones. I believe we had one posted here not too far back. Without looking it up though, I wont comment more because I do not immediately recall what info I was allowed to release on it. Someone here though should be able to recall what was said, or later when I get the chance I will look it up.

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    3. I'm sorry Natfka, but after the big debaucle with the 6th ed fluff being so revolutionary, only to end up not moving a single inch forward, I'd be surprised if anything really got 'moved forward'. I could see things being rewritten or added in that weren't there before, but not moved beyond the 13th Black Crusade.

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  7. All sounds good to me. Can't wait! Will have to have at least one helbrute with two close combat weapons.

    "Hulk smash!" hahahahaaaaa

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    1. Nurgle Hellbrute - gives an excuse for it to look like the hulk!
      Yes! No more living in the marines shadow! New levels of awesome! October release!
      Now for two unanswered questions - can chosen still spam weapons and infiltrate, and do daemon princes actually get more options?

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    2. agreed it's good to see them really giveing chaos some distinctiveness. the inclusion of chaos cultists could really be a great thing too, as it'll give chaos marine players cheap disposable "Screener" troops.

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    3. Shrike... Chosen are rumoured to have lost infiltrate and be 19 points... I'm also wondering the same thing about weapons (shooty, not just cc)

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    4. Since it says "No rules in Octobers WD", that must mean the codex arrives before October, else that sentence would be rendered pointless.

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  8. Sorry if I missed it on another rumor post but do we know what new models are coming out along with the codex?

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    1. No idea. Probably the new kits, like the Maulers and the rumored flier 'dragon' at the very least.

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  9. I collect Ultramarines, and was kinda dreading the idea of collecting an army that basically played like Space Marines again. I'm so glad this isn't the case. <3

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  10. "Pre-assigns all of the models on a per-scenario basis"
    Does this mean that the forces might not be as unbalanced as they look? Surely not! That might mean CSM could win!

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    1. Who cares? Who really plans on playing these missions?

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    2. like this?
      http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/08/starter-set-missions-are-here.html

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    3. the starter set missions are basicly designed for players to sit back and learn how to play. which is how they should be.

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    4. Yeah, which based on the scenario, it tells u which models vs which models which was Shrike's question

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    5. I am planing on playing the single player missions. Since everyone at my store is so far ahead of me and my adhd make, very hard to learn this game... I do have a question. Does anyone know if there is a learn to play video? Or would, maybe Natfka, maybe able to put one up for people like me... maybe a walk thru game? I do so love this game.. but most of the guys I know do want to teach they just want to play. Thank you my friends. I will give my email if anyone could help me.
      peloquin

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  11. Chosen are supposed to be the most experienced and Battle hardened soldiers we got now their cowards when the going gets rough what ever happened to trying to acquire the favor of the dark gods. Also now chosen don't have a champion or are they all characters? If their all champions they should but if they aren't well that's a disappointment right there then.

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    1. They'll probably all be characters if they're all supposed to be 'champions'. Also leadership 9 isn't that bad. Take a look at the Space Wolf Codex, and they seem to do just fine.

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    2. not to mention it looks like there are plenty of upgrades if you just must have improved leadership.

      Otherwise, these 10,000 year old marines would prefer to live another 10,000 years, rather than just die on the field.

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    3. Also remeber CSMs are much more self centered and individualistic then normal marines. without a chaos lord on hand to "keep them in line" then yes It's entirely possiable they'll flee rather then stay in an intenable position

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  12. I'm really looking forward to this finally hitting. Helbrute seems decent enough based on some of the rumors. Getting 2 close combat weapons and therefore getting 5 attacks on the charge will wreck most vehicles. If you can give it rage, then that's 6 attacks on the charge.

    The Cultists I'm less and less excited about. I'm sure they'll be a great tarpit unit, but at the end of the day they're Guardsmen. Who gives Guardsmen an extra close combat weapon so they can charge something? Why bother?

    I don't mind the drop in leadership. I'm more concerned that they're going to repeat what they did in the current codex and give a bunch of stuff Fearless. For things like Cultists, fearless is great. For Chaos Marines that want to stay alive a little longer behind a nice 2+ cover save Aegis Defense Line, Fearless isn't the best of things. Or if they get assaulted by a walker that they can't do anything against.. We'll see what happens.

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    1. I really think that a lot of people are focusing on the wrong kinds of things right now. Cultists with shotguns? Woop-de-freakin-doo.

      Let's talk about how Noise Marines weapons are going to get a big fat nerf in the way of Salvo, meaning they can't assault after firing their sonic weapons any more. Now that's irritating.

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    2. Noise Marines aren't usually used to shoot and assault. You just sit them there and blow your load on anything that's coming close; then if they assault you can overwatch with a doom siren, as well as all of your sonic weaponry, then attack before them (in most cases).

      Noise Marines right now are just stupidly expensive (40 points for a blastmaster? Really GW?) and sonic blasters basically make noise marines 26 points a model just to have storm bolters, which can be weaker heavy bolters if you don't move.

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    3. Hmmmm...maybe they are making room for more options? Giving you a Noise Marine / salvo / range option...and then maybe a hardcore assault loadout? Please?

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    4. I like the idea of Noise Marines sitting there and blowing their load BETTER than before AND (possibly) ignoring cover. I'll take it. 20pts Blast Master? YUM!

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    5. Well, from what I'm expecting, we'll have two different options for Noise Marines. One will be a loadout of Sonic Blasters and Blastmasters that'll shoot things at range and ignore all sorts of cover, which will be a boon against horde armies and other footsloggers.

      The other option will be a retinue for a Lord, giving a Noise Marine Champion the Doom Siren and that whip that lets you force challenge acceptance, giving your Lord an opportunity to roll on the Eye of the Gods table.

      This is all highly speculative, but I imagine it'll pan out well.

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    6. From what I can tell based on FACT (ie whats in DV!) We are stuck with the same ol shitty "Almost as good as marines BUT..." Crap we always get, if lords are again limited to q 5++ unless they take tzeentch well that's a joke.

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    7. I don't mind it if their starting cost is less.

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  13. Can anyone explain what does 'tactical spear tip strike' exactly mean?

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    1. Space Marines have always been "the pointy end of the spear" for the Imperium; a focused attack with great strength at a specific objective. For comparison the Imperial Guard have always been "the Emperor's hammer"; extremely powerful en mass, but relies on brute force to win.

      Nice to see Chaos Marines set to play differently than the loyalists.

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    2. Normal Space marines basically.

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    3. I genuinely hope they play vastly differently than regular marines. When you see the old Chaos codex you kinda think: "hey, these are pretty much crappier versions of space marines with a few oddball units thrown in at the expense of some of the awesome space marine units".

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  14. Aim low and from a far for maximum ouch!

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  15. This sounds like what I always wished chaos was.....looking forward to restarting chaos marines.

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  16. We get the starter early? Months after the rule book? Demons were scheduled for last month then? They never intended on releasing more than one 6th edition codex year? What is this source smoking, sounds better than my weed.

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    1. Silence you! I'll have none of this critical thinking business. Just because you make sense doesn't mean you're even close to right. :)

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    2. You get the starter early relative to the codex, instead of having to wait for the codex release to get the starter. Natfka never said anything about daemons or other sixth edition codices.

      Maybe you should lay off the drugs. They seem to be bad for your reading comprehension.

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  17. Damn I will be disappointed then. From this and the rule book it seems like Chaos Space Marines will be Orks in Power Armour, selfish and with no beliefs. Too shallow for me.

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    1. Many of the Chaos Marines ARE selfish individuals with no strong beliefs. I mean it can really depend on who they are in question. Yes some chaos marines have very strong belives, but I imagine most word bearer's squads would have an icon of chaos glory. and I'd say leadership 9 with a chance to re-roll failure is proably better then a ldr of 10 anyway

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    2. But don't you think that it's a bit boring if Chaos Space Marines is downgraded to Space Marines who just want a lot of power for themselves and to whom Chaos is just a weapon instead of something "higher"? If Chaos is just a weapon for them then we're back to "if only you knew the power of the dark side..." and that's why they turned traitor, to have more power. That's too shallow and overused.

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  18. Still no word on whether or not Helbrutes can take plasma cannons, missile launchers, heavy bolters? Dissapointing.

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  19. Harvesting an appropriate number of does each year to maintain a deer population.
    ported barrels

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