This has to be one of the most heated parts of the faq. Hence while waiting for Friday to discuss it was a key. It let the idea of a Dawn of War deployment sink into my thoughts and let me analyze my thoughts on it.


First off, the first question is....
Can in a dawn of war limited deployment, and Imperial Guard player deploy his entire platoon including that chimeras taken as dedicated transports?

There are a few people still arguing that they cannot, however, this is mostly from FAQ shock, and the standard OMG this is overpowered. Here is the ruling......

Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately.”

So to be honest, yes, the chimeras are deployed. Get this straight though, this is only for limited deployment games like Dawn of War.

Is this overpowered? Well, lets really take a look at it. First impression is wow, that could be strong in a list. However, a player really has to build his list with this option in mind (not solely for it as it only comes up 1 out of 3 games).

I have been building lists for to take advantage of this all week, and I have to say its not overpowered. It has its advantages, but also in the balanced tournament style play, it has some serious disadvantages.

It does help get your large platoon style lists on the board right away. In general it also puts you closer to the enemy. So all the advantages that you are thinking it might do, bring a drawback. How close to you really want to be to the opponents board edge. I like the idea when playing my dark eldar and my Grey Knights if an IG player deploys his army at that 24" midfield position.

Do I think this new ruling for the FAQ is overpowering?... No. Do I think it will change some lists and tactics on the tabletop?.... yes. This is not the end of days, and players will adjust to new tactics and lists. As I am reworking old platoon style lists, I will share some of these lists later.

25 Comments:

  1. I believe that, according to the FAQ, you can deploy the entire platoon as a single unit. However, their Chimeras count as additional "units" for the purposes of DoW. Since the FAQ specifically only refers to dedicated transports for the purposes of reserves and outflanking, it has no bearing on the DoW deployment. However, this does mean that you can deploy your entire foot platoon, including separate HWT and SWT, with them all counting as a single unit, as per the FAQ.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I agree with Ahrimaneus.

    Yes, you can deploy your entire Infantry Platoon including all parts, SWS, HWT, Conscripts, etc.

    No, you cannot deploy the Dedicated Transports for the Platoon past the 2 Troop limit as these are additional units.

    The context of Platoon units in non-dedicated transports speaks to "Can I deploy my Infantry Squad in a Vendetta?", answer is no.

    I think going so far as to say you can deploy a FULL Mechanized Infantry Platoon plus units on the ground in DoW is saying too much and looking to stretch the FAQ ruling. I believe the ruling was intended to clear up the tie for the Infantry Platoon as 1 Troop choice for deployment but does not speak to Dedicated Transports because they are already covered in the DoW scenario rules.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Everything in a platoon are additional units. That doesnt have any bearing on what is deployed. It says the platoon, and it is obvious that dedicated transports are part of a platoon. They are however an additional unit, but for a limited deployment the entire platoon is deployed as a single unit (for deployment purposes). As per faq.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Most 'mech guard' armies that I've encountered, tend to not move forward at all till the. end of game objective grabs. so don't assume that they're going to get too close to those GK & DE.

    Personally I think GW ruled it as teh whole platoon (chimeras included) to draw people away from the Chimeltavet spam that we see so often...

    ReplyDelete
  5. Has anyone thought that maybe the DoW scenario rules are in error, as the "rule" everyone refers to is ONLY in the example and not in the scenario rules?

    We're quibbling over what defines a "unit" here, ultimately.

    Personally I come down on the side that (at deployment at least) a troop and its dedicated transport are a single unit.

    ReplyDelete
  6. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  7. "It says the platoon, and it is obvious that dedicated transports are part of a platoon."

    I disagree.

    If this were the case, it would also be obvious that a rhino is part of a Tactical Squad selection, but it isn't. In fact, the main rulebook uses that in its own example.

    It says specifically in the Codex that Chimerae are dedicated transports, and they are added to the infantry platoons as such. Also, if you note, Chimerae are not listed in the composition of an Infantry Platoon, making this, IMO, quite cut-and-dry.

    It seems pretty evident to me that Ahrimaneus' interpretation is correct.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nerk, here is the the rulebook quote you are trying to quote

      Multiple Unit Choices
      Note that occasionally the Codexes allow the player to include several units in his army at the cost of a single force organisation slot (like dedicated transports, etc.). Apart from being bought as a single choice, these units operate and count as separate units in all respects.

      Source: Page 92, Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook

      However, a chimera is part of a platoon, just as is your example of a rhino is part of a tactical squad. However they are treated as seperate units.

      The new faq now has changed this for a platoon during limited deployments. The entire platoon is treated as a single unit for deployment.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    3. I see where we differ then. pg 96 of the IG codex says as you have claimed, " each infantry platoon counts as a single troops choice on the foc when deploying, and is rolled for collectively."

      Dedicated transports are not a seperate choice as you claim, they are the same choice. Just as in any other codex with a dedicated transport.

      then following that reason. the main rulebook declares that a single foc can actually be multiple units including dedicating transports. pg 92 main rulebook.

      this establishes quite clearly that multiple units can consist of a single foc choice.

      From there DOW says
      He can now deploy up to two troop units from his troop selections.

      the faq is very clear that the platoon is treated as a single unit for deployment.

      Since an infantry platoon consists of multiple units (including dedicated transports) as per rulebook, there is no other real conclusion following raw.

      Even the page discussing dedicated transports does not say they are something on their own outside of the unit they are purchased for. It says...

      Dedicated Transports
      Sometimes a unit entry in a codex will include a transport option, allowing a ehicle to be selected together with the unit. These dedicated transports do not take up a a slot on the Foc.

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    5. Nerk, This type of argument does not belong here. The counter argument to this ruling is rather inane, and there are other places you can get your opinions heard at. Here is a link to the argument for you.

      http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/423740.page

      I apologize to everyone else for being sucked into the drama.

      Delete
  8. This makes me happy being that I never run Vets... mostly all infantry and sometimes an armoured company platoon

    ReplyDelete
  9. Personally, I agree with Natfka. The Chimera arrive with the platoon from reserve, so it would only make logical sense they would deploy with the unit as well. Effectively, you can "deploy" them into reserves in their Chimera, but not onto the battlefield, which seems silly to me.

    I guess the question I would have is when could you use a dedicated transport in Dawn of War? I believe the initial deployed units can always be in their transport, just as in the other two deployment types. However, if you count them as a separate unit, they never can be, as a dedicated transport is neither a troop nor an HQ. So, can a Space Marine Tactical Squad deploy in a Rhino? I say yes, and it is the exact same scenario here. The fact that the unit deploying consists of eight bajillion squads and two dozen Chimera (I exaggerate, but c'mon, there are a TON of those little buggers) changes nothing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. On a completely unrelated note I forgot to mention, I have been reading this blog for at least six months now and I just realized when writing that post that the t is before the f in Natfka, and I have been saying it wrong this whole time. Not that I know what correct is (I don't think my mouth can make a "tfk" sound).

      Delete
    2. Benjamin, there is no correct pronunciation of the name Natfka. Its a long story how I got the name. Perhaps I will post it up sometime.

      There are a few people that call me that in person sometimes, so this is how they say it.

      Nat-fka

      Delete
  10. Blame GW and their sloppy writing!

    At the moment nothing convinces me that the situation has changed for dedicated transports in a DoW deployment.

    Ahrimaneus has it right - all the errata does is define that for DoW deployment purposes a whole platoon comprises a single unit, including the associated HWS, SWS and consripts!

    Anything more is just wishful thinking.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I dont think its sloppy writing. Its very clear about the platoon being deployed as a single unit in DOW games. The whole platoon includes dedicated transports, as they are part of it. They are not a seperate choice, although are a seperate unit. pg 92 rulebook, as quoted above.

      Delete
    2. FAQ states every unit in a platoon is treated as one unit during DOW deployment.

      There is no rule that states a chimera bought for a unit in a platoon exists outside that platoon. Dedicated transports share the same FOC slot as their parent unit.

      Yes, the FAQ is essentially breaking DOW deployment where instead of deploying two troop units, you are allowed to deploy two troop FOCs.

      Delete
  11. Regarding DOW deployment I've always been a bit confused. Why is the dedicated transport a second unit? From Rulebook pg 93:

    "...player B then deploys a unit of Troops, already embarked into their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of Troops)."

    I agree with Natfka's interpretation of the IG FAQ. Since dedicated transports don't take up a slot they should be deployed with the unit.

    Can someone help my confusion about why a dedicated transport is a second unit of troop?

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hello there! This post couldn't be written any better! Reading through this post reminds me of my old room mate! He always kept talking about this. I will forward this article to him. Pretty sure he will have a good read. Many thanks for sharing!
    Here is my blog - reputable payday loans online

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hi there, I found your website by means of Google whilst searching for a comparable
    topic, your site came up, it appears good. I've bookmarked it in my google bookmarks.
    Hi there, simply became alert to your weblog through Google, and located that it's really informative.
    I am gonna watch out for brussels. I will be grateful when you proceed this
    in future. Numerous other people will probably be benefited
    out of your writing. Cheers!
    my page - how to make money of the internet

    ReplyDelete
  14. I don't drop many remarks, however i did a few searching and wound up here "FAQ: Imperial Guard Platoon Deployments". And I actually do have a couple of questions for you if it's allright.

    Could it be simply me or does it look like a few of the remarks look
    like they are written by brain dead individuals? :-P And, if you are writing on additional social sites, I'd like to follow everything fresh you have to post. Could you make a list of every one of your communal sites like your Facebook page, twitter feed, or linkedin profile?
    Also visit my blog post ; electronic cigarette ireland

    ReplyDelete
  15. I’m not that much of a internet reader to be honest but your sites
    really nice, keep it up! I'll go ahead and bookmark your site to come back in the future. Cheers
    Feel free to surf my page ; make money online site

    ReplyDelete
  16. Hi! This is my 1st comment here so I just wanted to give a quick shout
    out and tell you I really enjoy reading through your blog posts.
    Can you suggest any other blogs/websites/forums that cover
    the same subjects? Thank you so much!
    Feel free to surf my page :: Google options

    ReplyDelete

 
Top
Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...