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Skitarii Tournament Report from the Storm of Silence

  hj0oehngwphg0333td
Why hello there reader, come sit here awhile while I tell you tale from the Storm of Silence! Be sure to check the Tactics Corner for more great bat reps!

Recently over the first weekend of May, a large number of Warhammer 40k player gathered up to Spokane Washington to participate in the annual Storm of Silence tournament at Gamer’s Haven. This was not my first trip up to visit Bob’s magnificent store in the Spokane Valley and it was once again a great event ran by a fantastic TO (Dan Winters). The event had roughly 50 players participate in it and it was one of the first ITC event to allow for the new Eldar Codex though the event had some slight alteration of the ITC rule-set as it did allow for re-rollable 2+ and unnerfed invisibility. I decided to take a new army concept that I have been scrounging up. It’s a new take on an old concept, Skitarii with Blood Angels. The event was 1,850 points and here is the list I took up:

Skitarii Maniple Detachment:
1x (10) Skitarii Vanguard (Warlord) with Arkhan’s Divinier, Omnispex, 3 Plasma Culiver and 7 Radium Carbine
5x (10) Skitarii Vanguard with Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles and 7 Radium Carbines
1x (2) Vengeance Batteries with Quad Icarus Array

Flesh Tearer Detachment:
1x Sanguinary Priest with Auspex
1x (5) Sternguard Marines with 5 Combi-Grav in a Drop Pod
2x (5) Tactical Marines with Combi-Melta, Meltagun in a Drop Pod 6x (1) Drop Pod

The overall concept of the list is as you can obviously tell, a drop pod list. Effectively the Priest would ride with the Sternguard while the Skitarii will ride in the Fast Attack Drop Pods of the Blood Angels. The list has some obvious tricks and some not so obvious. One of the obvious tricks is the null deploy of the list with the 9 Drop Pods (5 on turn 1 and 4 in reserve) and that its effectively has some nasty shooting capability. Let me clarify for those who have no read or played against Skitarii, at the start of the shooting phase they can pick from a list of 6 unique Once per Game Doctrines. 3 of them impact ballistic skill and 3 of them impact weapon skill until their following shooting phase; 2 of +1 of either WS or BS, 2 of +2 of either WS or BS and -1 to the opposite and 2 of +3 of either WS or BS and -2 to the opposite. Which means on the turn the Skitarii come down, they can effectively gain BS 7 but WS 1 as their opening volley of fire. The combination of the accurate opening volley and their guns make for quite effective first turn shooting against many armies. Radium Carbines have an 18” Str 3 AP 5 Assault 3 and the Radium Poisoning rule (Any roll of a 6 to wound results in 2 wounds to target unit versus 1 no matter the toughness of the target) which effectively makes them great all target basic gun as the turn it lands it will have 21 highly accurate shots. The Arc Rifles are 24” Str 6 AP 5 Rapid Fire Haywire which makes them quite effective against any armored targets and can still bring some nasty punch to any Toughness values. The Plasma Culiver are 18” Str 7 AP 2 Assault 3 Gets Hot but due to the Skitarii automatically gaining Preferred Enemy, the gets hot is not all that worrying.

The Vanguard themselves have some cool attributes such as having Relentless, 6+ FNP, 4+ armor and lowering the toughness of any unit they are locked in combat with (couple with the BA Furious Charge can yield a bit of extra punch). The Arkhan’s Diviner was the cheapest of the relics (5pts) but has the greatest potential helpful yield due to it allowing that unit to reroll the mysterious terrain result and thus maximizing on the opportunity for Skyfire results. Finally, the last little trick in the list is that the Skitarii Maniple detachment grants all the models in the Detachment (not solely Skitarii faction) Scout and Crusader which applies to the Vengeance Batteries. Now I am sure that is probably an oversight but until the mechanic gets errata’ed differently, you can redeploy the Vengeance Batteries 12” before the game starts and if you were not aware fortication such as Buildings bought from your list are considered claimed which means they are scoring units.

  Omnissiah

  Now off to my match ups at the Storm:

boxing_round1_xlarge


Round 1 against Vincent Price’s Imperial Knight with new Craftworld Eldar Army. His army contained an Adamantite Lance, a CAD Eldar with a Seer on Bike, 1 Unit of 9 Scatterbikes, 1 Unit of 3 Scatter biker and 2 Crimson Hunter. Vincent was not looking forward to our matchup for two reasons, I had a lot of Haywire Guns which can bypass his shield facings with smart placing of pods and because we are both competing for Agents of the Imperium Faction (WHERE IS THE ADEPTUS MECHANICUS FACTION Reece!). The mission was Kill Points primary and Objectives secondary. I won the dice roll for first turn and made Vincent go first. He deployed his Knights extremely by packing them into a corner and minimizing the angles and facing I can deep strike into. I had 1 objective next to one of the batteries and scouted the other battery to cover another objective during my deployment. Vincent had deployed too far to shoot at the batteries and chose to maintain his tight formation. On the drop I brought in 4 of my Arc Rifle Vanguards and 1 of the Melta Tactical Marine. The scatters were favorable as I stuck around in the midfield on objectives while still getting plenty of coverage of various different facing. I chose the BS 7 WS 1 Doctrine and waited to see how Vincent placed his Ion shields. First Volley from an Arc Rifle unit, all 6 Hits hits, all 6 Glance, Titanic Explosion, and stripped 1 HP from another knight. Second and Third Unit killed off the other knight and finally when the fourth Arc Rifle unit and the Melta Tactical squad fired at the last knight without his shield roll, managed to only strip him down to 2 hullpoints due to a cold roll on my part which made this a game as if I killed the lance on turn 1, would have tabled Vincent as he had reserved everything else. The rest of game was basically me collecting Maelstorm points and locking his big unit of Bikers in melee as they had perma invisibility they entire game. Vincent is always an awesome player to play against and even though this was the paper to his rock, he did win Best Imperial Knight at the end of the event though. Quick summary of what I learned in the game, Vanguard unit in combat with Jetbikes is not terrible as they lower their T to 3 and Vengeance Batteries really only need to force things to jink over trying to kill them.

"Ring Girl" Announcing Start of Round Two
 

Round 2 against a Craftworld Eldar army. His army contained a Wraithhost formation and a CAD Eldar. His CAD was a Farseer and 2 small Biker units but did not have scatter laser in it. He did however have 3 Serpents with 2 normal D-Cannons and 1 with D-Scythes. The Mission was Big Guns and Maelstorm secondary, I won the dice to make my opponent go first. He shuffled to cover some objectives and got first blood by popping 1 of the Batteries with a Wraithknight shot. My first turn coming down was basically holding the middle and focusing firepower into his Invis carrying Farseer Jetbike in one of the biker unit (he had cast invis on the knight instead) and killing his Wraithguard unit covering his maelstrom objective in no man’s land while maintaining distance from the D-Scythes and Knight. The Radium truly shined in that game as they basically oblirated everything they shot at this game. Pop the Transport and the Warlord’s Plasma Culevin and Radium did short work. The Sternguard I sent after the Wraithlord as he had infiltrated it with his warlord trait into my deployment zone. They did absolutely nothing with 10 Grav shots, (this would prove to be a trend the entire game). The game played out that I would deny him maelstrom with reserve pods and keep focusing down his wraithguard and bikers. On turn 2 I had killed all of the bikers and the D-Scythe Wraithguards. By turn 4 he had a full wounded Knight facing two thirds of my army by himself. He chose to hide in the corner and get linebreaker and we mutually called the game there. Quick summary of what I learned in the game, I don’t need to kill Wraithknights as much as minimizing their potential and killing everything else and Sternguards felt out of place in the army.

round 3
 

Round 3 was against Brian Haler’s Decurion Necrons. His army was the Reclamation with Zahndrek, 2 Flayed Ones Units, 1 Unit of Deathmarks and the Triarch Formation. The mission was Scouring primary and Maelstorm secondary. Brian is a budding competitive and experienced 40k player and the combination of the mission plus his army was going to prove very difficult for my army. He chose to go first and had overwhelming board presence with his vast unit count. Right off the bat, I knew that I couldn’t win Scouring with 6 Fast Attack drop pods against all the Gauss so I focused all of my efforts in denying Maelstorm and taking the lead in it. The sheer durability of all his units with Everliving and my lack of low AP weapon or Melee prowess meant that I had my work cut-out for me in killing any Necron unit outright. Turn 1 I decided to kill his Triarch stalker to lower their fire prowess (+1 BS) and remove the re-roll to hit and wound form the Triarch Praetorians (also give me First Strike) while the rest of my army created a wall of Drop Pods and focused down his Flayed Ones. The overall strategy of the game went well, I had secured an early lead in Maelstorm but I was haemorraging units quickly. By turn 4, I had 6 Drop Pods left, 3 Skitarii, 1 Vengeance and 5 Tactical Marines left but we had very few minutes left before we could start turn 5. We called it here with a perfect Draw. We ended with both 5-5. I will fully recognize that if we had enough time to get into turn 5, he had a strong chance to pull ahead depending on the Maelstorm he rolled. That game was brutal, I knew Decurion Necrons were tough to kill but man in the game I felt like I was shooting rubber bullets at a reinforced steel wall. Brian took Best Necron at the event and even played the winner at the top table.

FAQ-Round-4
 

Round 4 was against Joel Talley and his nasty Daemonkin Dog Spam army. It was focused around a CAD Daemonkin and the Blood Pack formation; he had 2 Lords on Juggers with Fist, Claw, Mark of Corruption, 4 big units of Dogs, 2 units of Cultists and 2 Heldrakes. I knew that game was going rough again due to the overall durability of the army. I want to point out that not only was the army durable but so is Joel. Joel is a very renowned and acclimated Warhammer player in the Pacific Northwest, the night before he had to go to the emergency room because he tripped in the shower and bruised his ribs. He showed up to the game ready to rumble and he delivered. I won the dice roll to make him go first and once again focused my entire game on Maelstorm over the primary mission. I split my forces on turn 1 focussing my Plasma Culevin and 2 Arc Rifle units on his right flank (but middle of the table) where 1 of my objectives was and my Sternguard and 1 Arc Rifle unit on his left flank to cover his home objectives. The left flank was sacrificial but he had to deal with them while the right flank forces had one mission and that was to kill his Warlord and his dogs. The combined firepower of the three units managed to kill all but 2 dogs and his Warlord, which also relieved some pressure on that flank. Also the Arkhan’s Diviner did its job and managed to roll a Skyfire Nexus. This proved amazing for then the Drakes came on the table. They arrived turn 2 and scorched alive the Warlord and most of his unit and 1 of the Arc Units. On my turn 2, with some luck I managed to blow off the gun from 1 of the Heldrake and used the Skyfire Nexus to kill the other drake which I think turned the tide of the game. As Joel army as this point was gaining FNP with the blood tithe, it became much harder to kill his units. I kept the left flank contested and harassed while reinforcing the right flank. On the top of turn 5 I had both the Primary, Secondary and Tertiary but Joel had some moves he could pull to change all that. He managed to kill off my contesting units on his home objective but failed a crucial charge to kill my last Skitarii claiming Linebreaker. The game ended on turn 5 with me having 6 to his 1 (or 0?). Quick summary, that Daemonkin list is nasty and makes a really competitive assault army. Joel took best Daemonkin at the event and even played his last round with his bruised up ribs.

round 5
 

Round 5 against Cody’s Tyranids. He had 3 Flyrants, 2 Crones, 2 Malanthrope, 1 Dimachaeron, 2 Units of Gaunts and 1 Unit of Rippers. The game was Crusade and a modified ITC Maelstorm (unique to Storm). I changed my strategy a bit for this game against Cody, mostly because I wasn’t at the top table and this was literally the 5th game I had with the army. I chose to go first because I wanted to see if the sheer alpha strike power of the army was enough to be functional in later turn if I was forced to go first. Cody deployed smart by keeping his Flyrants in the back but toe in cover and putting his Dimachaeron in the front with both Crones and malanthrope. He castled in the same piece of terrain with his entire deployed army. Turn 1 I chose to deploy 3 Arc Rifles, Plasma Culevin and the Sternguard with the Priest. I covered the middle of the board but created a “U shaped” wall around his army. The Priest lowered the cover of the Dimachaeron as any of the Flyrants would force me to drop off the objective and too close to his face eating monsters. The army took BS7 WS1 and the Plasma Culevin opened on the Dimachaeron and with Preferred Enemy and -2 to cover, the Dima was executed. The Sternguard and 1 of the Arc Rifle Unit took out one of the Crone while the other Arc Rifle unit dropped the other Crone to 1 wound. After that first turn of effective shooting, I clenched for the Electrogrub and Crone flamer template deaths. But by turn 3, Cody only had his 3 Flyrants alive (one had 1 wound left and the warlord had 3 left). Cody played for Linebreaker and the game ended on turn 5.  Quick Summary, thank the Omnissiah for Omnispex and Auspex. Cody took Best Tyranids at the event.

  Omnissiah2

 When the dust settled from the last games, we had a Best Overall Ork army and me with my Skitarii/BA in second place with Best General. For their very first outing and my experiment with them, I couldn’t be happier. All my opponents were great and I can’t wait to take them to Guardian Cup Ocho in a few days with some adjustments made to the list. I definitely liked the Vengeance Batteries as great backfield scoring unit and making people consider Jinking. I don’t think I need the Sternguard in the list at all. And with the potential of 3 Sources being alive in ITC, I have many options to play with.

Thank you with putting up with this long and dry text wall. I will try to get back to as many comments as I can.

Post a Comment

124 Comments

  1. Not dry at all, I am curious to see how this army would stack up against my precious Tau...

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    1. I would be interested, too. At a glance, it really does sound like a Tau interceptor list would WRECK this...

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    2. Reece I'm disappointed that you ruled against the BA formation that provides Augur Triangulafion allowing first turn assault concluded b/c fluff and how it would create a negative experience for an opponent, then, RAW out moving forts around b/c of RAW at the expense of your opponent's experience.
      Hypocritical.

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  2. Oh tournaments. Scouting fortifications? Surprised the TO didn't say anything. Does the Maniple have a Fortification slot?

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    1. That said, aren't fortifications deployed prior to placing terrain... So how do they get to benefit from scout?

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    2. I had to reread it to find what you were talking about but oh my god that's retarded.

      You should be ashamed for making up something as ridiculous as scouting fortifications. It specifically used the word "unit type" in the definition at scouting. Fortifications have "terrain type" so even some silly RAW explanation falls flat. If I were your opponent I'd have had the TO down your throat in 2 seconds.

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    3. Actually the RAW as written is that if its in your army, it's a unit. Fortification is a Battlefield Role for units per the BRB, claimed buildings are scoring units, etc.

      Having the terrain type and subtypes is no different then having something like the vehicle type and subtypes.

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    4. scout is a "re-deployment" not a movement. It's in essence pre-battle prep. And fortifications were terrain in 6th, not so in 7th. Makes sense and is fine.

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    5. So how far can a fortification "re-deploy" then? It doesn't have a movement characteristic so I'm assuming 6"?

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    6. Page 171 "Infantry, Artillery, a Walker or MC... may redeploy 6". If it is any other unit type, it may redeploy 12" of its current position."

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    7. Redeploying buildings isn't such a stretch; when units are deployed/redeployed they don't move, they're placed on the table to signify how the battlefield is set. Redeploying a building can signify the enemy's sensors being jammed or returning gammy readings and they've deployed their forces in response to where they thought the building was, not where it actually is.

      Gameplay-wise it's a bit of an iffy call but fairly justified (and thankfully rare).

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    8. Remember Drop Bastions are canon and were available in Planetstrike! So i'm ok with it if people model thrusters on their buildings :)

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    9. Something I'd like to say in case anyone in is wondering. Even though claimed buildings count as scoring units, when a claimed building is destroy by an opponent it does not give a victory point if playing purge the alien. I learned the hard way. Although I not sure if stronghold assault would overrule something that might be in the 7th ed brb yet on this.

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    10. Don't think of it as the Fortification moving, but as the Fortification being in a more desirable place at the start of the confrontation because the forces involved have lured the enemy into such a position.

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    11. Oh is Ian not understanding RAW again....

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    12. Or the fact that the scout special rile only applies to the models listed in that particular formation, NOT army wide.

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  3. You probably should mention at some point who you are.

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  4. Nice summations. Nice to see some Skitarii reports. I thought about a drop pod ally but don't have the desire or funds. I am also glad to read about the batteries. They seam an interesting addition to an the Skitarii I just might have to add those into my list.

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  5. Great read, thanks for posting!

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    1. Yeah, thanks! I love skitarii aesthetic, and its good to see them doing well vs the harder lists out there. Alpha strike is so nessesary with them, thats why the pods are so important. No idea why peopl3 ( see below) are crying like little babies...

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  6. Stopped reading after skitarii in drop pods. Also stopped any desire to play in tournaments.

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    1. Welcome to the world of "competitive" plastic dolls. Where D-weapons are endlessly complained about but skitarii in drop pods are purrrrrrrfectly palatable.

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    2. I particularly like the part where he basically wipes two knights on turn one. :-(

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    3. I particularly like the part where he basically wipes two knights on turn one. :-(

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    4. Both are cheesy. How's that?

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    5. Is it really that bad? O.o

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    6. A) Knights are the cheesiest crap on earth. Them finally having a hard counter is not bad in the latest.
      B) I really don't see the problem with Skitarri in drop pods. They build and maintain them, why not use them?

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    7. ^ this. they use them coz they make em, also what irks me is people are fine with Dark Eldar transports filled with Vanilla Eldar.....yes that from fluff is whack. unlike admech using something they build. #EagerlyAwatingExterminatus

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    8. I suppose I feel like anything outside of Space Marines shouldn't be in drop pods, in my mind the sheer gravitational change and impact would crush anything not protected by power armor and super human bone density with increased healing.

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  7. This article is clearly full of lies and mistruths. The Craftworld Eldar player didn't marauder your list by the end of his first movement phase then go to your house and carry out sexual relations with your significant other.

    What kind of person writes these kinds of devilish lies?

    /s

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    1. lol firstly he had an alpha strike and probably killed the D scythes and invisibility farseer.

      secondly single shot D weapons don't do shit to 10 man squads of guys, where 7 are just fodder.

      Thirdly he had a lot of cover reducing stuff, so jinks would be ineffective.

      So yeah eldar aren't unstoppable.

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  8. I stopped reading at "Re-Deployable Fortifications".

    Gratz on your win and all, but that's a move that won't fly 99% of the time.

    Dear god, we need some TO's that own a pair in this hobby.

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    1. Seconded. it's a move worthy of a double-barreled Dreadsock.

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    2. A fortification is a unit in 7th so it makes total sense with RAW. And re-deployment is not movement - it is extra pre-battle setup, so it makes total sense with RAI.

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    3. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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    4. Knowing the rules does help with that.

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    5. What is the response when your opponent asks how you redeployed the Fortress of Redemption minutes before two armies encounter one another?

      "We pushed real hard?"

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    6. Oh Rhino, say that again! It was so cinematic! :-P

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    7. you're not getting it. that's just it - it's not movement.

      this all happens in the deployment phase

      scouting bikers didn't "move" from their previous spot. In essence they never were at the previous spot. When the game/battle starts they actually "deployed" where they ended up and nowhere else.

      It's a simple game mechanic used to represent having a strategic advantage via the placement of units, the setup of a battlefield, or deciding where to meet the enemy. It's not an extra movement phase.

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    8. "Sir! Our sensors were jammed; the fortress isn't where we expected!"
      "Balls. Carry on."

      It's that simple. lol

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    9. Or the fortress was where it was the whole time, and the enemy blundered closer to it than originally planned due to poor intel, adverse conditions on the larger battlefield, etc.

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    10. Here's the rub.

      Fortifications are not a unit type. Only WAAC asshats would argue that you can "move" it in any way.

      If this isn't FAQ'd out then TOs need to step up and ban it

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    11. Check "Battlefield Roles"

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    12. Drop Bastions are a thing, you could get them in Planetstrike. That the Adeptus Mechanicus might have strapped big STC thrusters onto other fortifications? Or be holding onto a big stack of archeotech drop-fortifications just like drop Bastions?Totally not unlikely!

      After all, unless an army is defending how did they get those fortifications built in position in time anyway if they didn't drop them in from orbit?

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    13. TheRhino. The ammount of times i've been on a training excercise, where nothing ever moves (because the MOD cba to make new towns every other year) and yet we have still made mistakes mapping out attack lanes/where buildings are exactly/angles of buildings, has happened enough to justify the idea that in a game of 40k my army may not actually know where a fortification is :)

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    14. I'm perfectly OK with this ruling.

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    15. if people are fine with RAW being ignored so they don't get miffed......there is another hobby this way ----->

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    16. Alendrel & Deus +1

      Yeah, it's not like the building actually moves, you don't have to be a "WAAC asshat" to understand that a redeployment isn't actually a move.

      Again, as plain as day in the Building rules:

      "Claiming Buildings
      To keep track of which side currently controls a building, we use the concept of ‘claiming’ buildings (or, if you prefer, planting your flag).

      • At the start of the game, all buildings that were taken as part of a player’s army are ‘claimed’ by the owning player, whilst all other buildings are ‘unclaimed’.

      • **A claimed building is a unit in the controlling player’s army** and will remain so, even if it later becomes unoccupied, until the building is either destroyed or claimed by an enemy."

      The **part is actually emboldened in the BRB so it's a bit difficult to argue against it. Point 1 + point 2 + Skitarii Maniple = every model has the Scout USR. Scout USR = "If it is any other unit type, each model can instead redeploy anywhere entirely within 12" of its current position." As a purchased building starts as Claimed, it is a unit and thus complies with the Scout 12" redeployment criteria.

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    17. As per the quote from above...it doesn't become a unit in your army until the start of the game...game starts after deployment...you can't move buildings.

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    18. As per the quote from above...it doesn't become a unit in your army until the start of the game...game starts after deployment...you can't move buildings.

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    19. ^ building didn't move. it was re-deployed. what is so difficult to understand that a pre game move is not a move using everyday context of "move". nothing moved post game deployment until first player turn. since no buildings moved in game it didn't move. it did in deployment (could it be because of a special rule it otherwise doesn't normally have....surely not)

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    20. It isn't a unit that can be redeployed...it says it in what Mauler said, it isn't a unit in your army until the game starts.

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    21. Bran: "The Turn" section:

      "‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’

      During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle..."

      Deployment, not the first turn, is the start of the game.

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    22. Aaaaaand he got me! Imma move my forts from now on!

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    23. Sorry :'(

      (But only if you're playing Skitarii because AFAIK their Maniple Detachment is the only detachment that gives Scout to all non-Scouting units within?)

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  9. You mean, in actual game play outside of internet theory/whine crafting, Eldar can be beaten by a competent player? No....

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    1. It's a crazy world we live in.

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    2. Yes, by a competent player ...with a hard counter.

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    3. An Eldar player got beat one time by a hard counter... everyone let's go home. It's all over now. That definitely means they're not OP at all.

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    5. I have seen one beat too! I've also seen 3 armies get tabled so far. One game should never be taken as an indicator.

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    6. my orks table my bro's eldar ore times than i care to remember.... (pre current eldar dex, haven't had a go at current eldar dex yet)

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    7. At the end of article it's mentioned that Orks came out on top, which is pretty exciting to me as an avid Ork fan

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  10. Not that you need to, since you won, but if you were to alter your list what would you change?

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  11. Two things, well actually three:

    1) Fortifications cannot score because they are not units.

    2) Fortifications cannot scout because they are not units.

    3) It's spelled Caliver, not Culevin. I'm not sure where you got that from. Are you using one of the non-English codexes?

    Anyway, nice summary and it shows how Skitarii can be competitive. I just have issues with what amounts to a loophole with the allied drop pods. It's more evidence that GW doesn't give a damn about playtesting.

    Rant over. Carry on.

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    1. The logic with the drop pod doesn't make sense to me either. Drop Pods are a dedicated transport, so I always thought that they cannot be purchased by themselves without a unit. And when purchased with a unit, that unit is the only thing that can begin the game embarked upon it? What are others saying that I am missing?

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    2. Blood Angels and Space Wolves drop pods were moved from a DT role to a Fast Attack role in their new codexes.

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    3. This is explicitly covered on pages 112 and 134 from the main rulebook.

      Particularly: "Any unit can be a scoring unit, unless: (Pt. 4) It is a Building or Fortification that is unclaimed (claimed buildings count as a scoring unit from the claiming player's army)."

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    4. And: "A claimed building is a unit in the controlling player's army"

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    5. I think culverin is a 30k thing. Maybe that's where the confusion was. Though I am not the most reliable source of 30k information.

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    6. @JRBunn: That's another worm can though. The implication is that the opponent can claim your fortifications. If so, do they become scoring units for the opposing army?

      Let's say I claim your Aegis Defense line. I am now the Controlling Player. Woohoooo, I just gained an extra scoring unit! Do I get a cookie?

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    7. Fortifications in general cannot be claimed, only Buildings. In order to claim a building, you must enter it with a unit. In this situation, a Vengeance Battery may not be entered, and as such, may never be claimed by the enemy.

      However, if you were to walk into, say, a Firestorm Redoubt, then yes, you would control it from that point forward. It would score objectives and fire at enemy units until your opponent regained control.

      This is also basically covered on page 112.

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    8. Unfortunately:

      1) Claimed buildings are units.
      2) Claimed buildings are units.
      3) You're correct. Culverins are currently found in 30k; they're a Volkite weapon one up from a Volkite Caliver (hence the possible confusion) and are roughly the volkite equiv of a heavy bolter. (Factual imposition: a caliver was a light match/flink-lock firearm, an arquebus is a heavier wheel-lock version, both were replaced by the musket. A culverin was similar but heavier, eventually evolving into a type of cannon which was surpassed by the field gun. Interesting terms, had to look them up!)

      With regards to claimed buildings being scoring...it's a double-edged sword for a careless player. All the opponent has to do is get a unit inside and back out again, then they have a claimed building sitting on an objective for them.

      Drop pods for the 7E Marine codexes are now a FA choice as well as DT options, thus as an undedicated transport allies can start embarked on them. Fluff-wise it's perfectly cool but as far as the game goes I'm not sure if I'm cool with it. On the flipside there is the CAD to pay for if they want to bring more than one and while a psyker HQ is useful the two Troops may be not so much given how expensive Skitarii are.

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  12. If fortifications can't score, then why does the BRB specially list unclaimed fortifications as non-scoring?

    If they aren't units, then why is Fortifcation defined as one of the possible Battlefield Roles for units?

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    1. Because occupied buildings can score.

      But they arn't. They have their pwn seperate section after unit types.

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    2. This has been covered and refuted using page numbers in the post directly above.

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. You are welcome to make the point that even though a Building is a unit, it does not have a specific 'unit type'. This is a stretch for me, and the result would probably be us agreeing that we will not agree on these points.

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    5. If fortifications aren't units, then you can't include them in an army.

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    6. Read the stronghold assault book...
      Buildings and to some extent fortifications are explain in the brb but remember all the rules specific to fortications are in stronghold assault.

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  13. This would not go over well at the tournament I help organize.

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    1. Funny thing is TO's make their own rules....i wouldn't be all that surprised if your TO has a rule that other TO's wouldn't have....it's called "house rules" also i have only been to smallish local tournaments and they don't have the same house rules, all ways of playing in a legit manner in a tourney should be allowed (with obvious exceptions)

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  14. The only thing to remember here is that the quad Icarus array on the vengeance battery DOES NOT have the rule to let it prioritize flyers, that rule is a rule for the Firestorm Redoubt (and applies to any weapon mounted on it, Icarus or otherwise) and that rule does not exist for the Vengeance Batterues. The Vengeance Batteries must shoot at the nearest enemy model, so they're only going to make things jink if your opponent left what you wanted to shoot close to it.

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    1. They have interceptor, so the closest valid target in the opponents movement phase is the flyer arriving from reserve.

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  15. He should go and play this list and other questionable ones like it at the GW main store in Nottingham, against GW staffers every day, until they see just how ridiculous their rules are.

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    1. GW staffers would probably have a jolly time forging a fantastic narrative for the scene, and have a pint or three at bugman's after they picked up their models.

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    2. they wouldn't see the bad stuff...c'mon dude it's GW we are talking about...the bad stuff is the good stuff and the good stuff is good....it's all good in the eyes of GW.

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  16. ...redeploying terrain? It's pretty clear that isn't RAI, tournament organizers there are stupid, players enabling such behavior is cancer, etc etc

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    1. It's not "moving" though. It doesn't make sense that you can place a fortification on the table anywhere, unless it's coming down on drop ships. It's perfectly reasonable for an enemy army to fail to map the location of a strongpoint/unit correctly. This is basically what scouting is.

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    2. Two things with that...

      1) How does this explanation apply when the fortification is something as large as a Fortress of Redemption that can be seen from kilometers away?

      2) Many places in the rulebook describe Scout as a *move*, i.e. a move made by infantry, artillery, vehicles, etc. Move as in, moving in the movement phase.

      ???

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    3. redeploy a squad of devastators or something that requires to stationary (example only) since you haven't moved you can still fire turn one...... that is what redeploying is, it is a move that doesn't count as a game turn listed "movement" it is a move special rule, but it isn't movement.

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    4. also scout is the same deal, it happens (IIRC) before both players have a player turn, since it happened before the battle whatever unit which "moved" in this way have not "moved".

      also #1: magic......it happens by magic.

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  17. yknow, i really would have liked GW to spend a bit more time with the skitarii. theyre such an important, new release, but they get two weeks and then GW goes NO ELDAR NOW

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    1. That jarred me too. I'm still recovering from the shock.

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  18. It is really cool that you made it to this tournament. I have read your articles for some time now and am an avid follower. I was very surprised to see you attending a local event! I will make a point of making his next tournament and hopefully playing you there.

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  19. It is really cool that you made it to this tournament. I have read your articles for some time now and am an avid follower. I was very surprised to see you attending a local event! I will make a point of making his next tournament and hopefully playing you there.

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  20. You dont get command benefits from the skitarri maniple because you didn't have the correct units also redeploying fortifications is insane and probably why people keep giving up on 40k. Whatever though congrats on making things worse

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    1. Er, how did he not have the correct units?

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    2. He may be getting the formation maniple confused with the detatchment maniple, but I agree with his other points.

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    3. You are right starchild I did have those two confused. Thought rhe detachment was called something else

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  21. Seems like every 40k article, blog entry, GW release, rumor, etc. over the past couple months has just reinforced my decision to focus my hobby resources on Infinity.
    40k has some problems.

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    1. Some games just aren't meant to be played competitively. I think 40k is one of those, personally.

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    2. Forge your own narrative...
      Although competitive play depends on what the TOs will allow. Also on how far a player will push their interpretation of the rules;

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    3. Im forging a narrative all right. Its Ariadna vs. Nomads in the human sphere.

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    4. So... why are you even in a 40k forum? If you are so unhappy, just let it go.

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  22. I don't understand what all the complaining is about for these tournaments, it's not like the TOs randomly determine the rules after you get there, people typically have ample time to craft their army around the rules beforehand. If for some reason you lack the ability/imagination to craft/justify your list around the tournament's rules, you, in fact, are the poison in the hobby.

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  23. To all you people complaining about admech guys hopping in a drop pod, okay fine, that's a little bogus from a fluff standpoint, but I still think it was way more bogus that up until this edition a marine couldn't get in a chimera, like, ever, for any reason.

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    1. I'm honestly fine with drop pods. I mean these are primarily robotic beings, they could survive it fine.

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    2. pods are fine, dark eldar or eldar in each others transports is more whack and not fluffy than a robot guy who makes robots and machines and then rides into battle in said machine. now trying that same thing with Genestealer cults...i'd say nope right off the bat. also there are more whack combos than admech riding in pods. let's ignore all of those and go and see/have a problem with one that is essentially a non issue/problem in fluff.

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  24. I don't understand what all the complaining is about for these tournaments, it's not like the TOs randomly determine the rules after you get there, people typically have ample time to craft their army around the rules beforehand. If for some reason you lack the ability/imagination to craft/justify your list around the tournament's rules, you, in fact, are the poison in the hobby.

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  25. I was the tyranid player in game 5. Jeremy played a great game. The army is brutal. I had no idea I was that unsafe in a 2plus shrouded bubble. Plus slapping the ballaistic skill 7 card down and reducing my over just made me want to roll upinto a ball and whimper:). The one squad alone whiped out a toughness 6 , 6 wound monster. Very difficult to play against. I would love to try again though now that I no a little bit more about the army. The weakness of the vangaurd is obviously there range, and hoping they survive long enough to get into it, The drop pods competely took that away. Allowing them to drop and wipe what he wanted and reducing cover made a huge difference.
    On a side note to anyone playing kids. (or anything else for that matter) If I was to play this again with my list I would have done things differently.

    I made a big mistake with my objective deployment. I deployed them all around me and only 12" apart, allowing Jeremy to deploy all his pods in a c shape around my army, right on the objectives and still be in range to shoot.

    What I would do next time would be to only deploy my fliers on the board and start them in complete opposite corners. Rest of army in reserves. Then deploy my objectives as far away and as spaced out as possible. I would have tried to take turn 1, got in the air and hugged the board edge moving towards his deployment Forcing him to either drop on the objectives and be out of range of me, or deploy away from the objectives and go for the kill. As one of the worst parts about this list is even after you survive the rediculous casualties and kill lots of him stuff he still has like 8 drop pods all contesting objectives, which alot of armies will struggle to kill. unless you have a ton of obj secured. I believe if I could have pulled that off the game would have been much closer

    I also had an exocrine and 3 hive guard too. Jeremy played well. congrats on best general.

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    1. Thanks for taking the time to feed back! I generally don't play tournies anymore as I prefer more relaxed and/or league games but I always appreciate hearing how other players are doing, especially if they have good attitudes :]

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    2. Agreed. And that is what it all comes down to, Mauler. If it is not fun, or the people you play with are unpleasant, then you shouldn't do it. Your comment about having a good attitude says it all.

      The game is what you bring to it.

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  26. woops, for anyone playing kids, not kids,

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  27. damn auto correct, for anyone playing NIDS, not kids

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    1. Too funny. At our local game store the owner has a very cool cat (an actual live cat) that will occasionally jump up onto the gaming tables to check things out. House rule is that anything he knocks over is dead in the game... You can always tell a person's attitude by how they respond to this rule.

      It is supposed to be fun, right? Thank God the cat has calmed down as he has gotten older. Keep it up Hobbes (the cat). :)


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    2. Oh, my point... I've never played with kids on the table, but cats yes.

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  28. I got to play against this list last week, and oh my it's brutal for sure. However it does not have much sustainability. If you have anything close to a CC unit survive they can wipe a skitarii unit pretty easily.

    I did survive the first turn alpha strike. Despite the fact that he rolled below average on wounds I also rolled almost no saves. Out of my 32 bikes I had less then 15 left.

    I also had a unit of 2 bikes that lasted way longer then they should have, making about 15 saves in a row and passing 2 morale tests in the process.

    But one the Bully Boys got out of the battlewagons, the Skitarii folded like wet paper.

    I played Jeremy with:
    CAD
    Zadsnark
    Painboy on bike
    2x 15 bikes w/nob (klaw and bosspole)

    Ghazzy's Bully Boys
    3x 5 meganobz, 1x killsaws, battlewagon w/ram, big shoota

    https://youtu.be/dbvdjwmVjvc

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