There were rumors that Cypher was originally going to be part of the Dark Vengeance box set, and was dropped. If that was the case, rules and likely a model was already under way. Now, we have word that a codex author has just mentioned a supplement for the Fallen.


Please remember that this is not official, and thus remains a rumor until verified, or released.


via a Reader here at Faeit 212
Jeremy Vetock announced at games day that there will definitely be a fallen supplement coming, however we dont know if this is for DA or CSM.

62 Comments:

  1. Hopefully Dark Angel supplement because:
    - a) what else were they gonna do, Raven/Deathwing?
    - b) chaos fallen kills the ambiguity, renegades maintain the scope to be evil or just misunderstood

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    1. I would like to see this as a Dark Angels Supplement and allowing them to be Brothers in arms with CSM... and DA but only Allies of Convenience for SM chapters

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    2. Fallen
      Allies
      Dark Angels

      Allies

      With Dark Angels, the chapter dedicated to hunting then down and torturing a confession out of them, arguably as much as to the Emperor of mankind himself.

      Is this real life? :P

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    3. caught in a landslide.....

      anyway, it could be done as cypher helps the dark angels even if they dont know it yet. The Fallen being allies to DA is as likely as a whole fallen army because they are both in conflict with the fluff.

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    4. Well if my memory serves you cant ally the eldar supplement with codex eldar so it doesnt mean that all supplements will allow you to ally with the main codex but only if the fluff dictates it like with the farsight enclaves. So really a fallen supplement would just allow you to play codex dark angels differently.

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    5. exactly, a Fallen army is renegades lead by Fallen Angel, so how can they change the DA codex to that? its like night and day.

      Has anyone ever read any fluff where there are more than one Fallen in the same place? let alone an Army of Fallen marines or even a squad of them. (I am actually looking for an answer on this question)

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    6. I was wondering the same thing. Don't they typically hang around with other renegade astartes and guard?

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    7. To answer your question Ben-, Yes the Fallen have worked in small groups before. You will find this in the Codex and the Ravenwing book. Cypher is well known to do this and he stole a number of Geneseeds from the DA recently.

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    8. Ive Read the Ravenwing book and I only recall the Sorcerer being a Fallen Angel, it was months ago so i'll flick through later. What page in the codex is it located on?

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    9. is it

      "...can be found operating in small bands" on page 18

      Still a small band isn't an army you can make a supplement army from IMO, but if they do I hope you are given the choice to either make them tainted or veterans in exile because not knowing if they are good or bad is the whole appeal to me.

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    10. Yes, that is the quote. Also they mentioned that in the Eye that there were a large number of reported Fallen since the 13th crusade and in the Ravenwing book there were 3 known Fallen operating in the fallen space station. One was captured prior to the book, then the Mage and lastly Cypher. The people on the space station worshiped them.

      Of course we won't findout what Cypher is doing yet with the Geneseed and how many Fallen are left and currently active. But since they come from the era before the limited chapter it could be many.

      But yes, as far as the current fluff goes there have not been enough of them to warrent their own codex but with the events unfolding fast as they are I couldn't say either way.

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    11. Like with Farsight.

      battle brother with DA marines, but the army cannot ( not) include Azrael, Asmodai, Ezekiel, Belial or "the ravenwing dude i forgot the name".

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    12. Sammael^

      I remember now, Indeed they could make sense of it on the premise of the 13th Crusade some how but at the cost of the intrigue of the Fallen. ....I mean after all its going to be hard to keep the Fallen a secret when they are fighting every week down your gaming club, soon the whole imperium will know of the betrayal.

      My favourite story of the fallen is when Cypher helps some guardsmen hold the line in time for the DA to arrive for support, tells them not to tell anyone and then vanishes (even calls the DA his legion and brothers).

      If they make him like Clint Eastwood from the Unforgiven I will be happy.

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    13. Well I know if this is true and there is a Fallen book coming it would be interesting to see what angle they take. Most of the Fallen have not followed or worshiped the Chaos gods. They are also very old and would be carrying weapons and armor from the age of the Heresy. The knowledge of the Fallen would be hard to keep, as you mentioned, and a lot of them still see themselves as Dark Angels.

      So I find it hard for them to be a Chaos supplement, along with the fact they would still follow the old structure of the DA force organizations.

      I can go on with the difficulties in truely translating this but I think we all get the idea.

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    14. My feelings exactly, now we must play the waiting game to see what becomes of this rumour.

      I suppose if people really wanted to play the Fallen, they could take the rules from the Dark Angels heresy list from Forgeworld when they get around to making it.

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    15. THe Fallen having only heresy era gear is not a given. They could loot and pillage new gear.

      Besides, even with a warband of them running around, it has been 10000 years of warbands... it might not register for the rest of the imperium.

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  2. There is a Cypher model under CSM.

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    1. Yeah that's the older model but we had rumors of a new plastic Cypher along with official rules for him that was going to be in the limited edition version of dark Vengeance as the exclusive rather than the exclusive interrogator chaplain

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    2. Well some time ago there was also a rumor about SM squad with dual bolt pistols. Similar poses to cypher. Rumor was strongly conected with Fallens back then.

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    3. Forge Worlds 30k space marine Destroyer squad carry dual Bolt pistols.

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  3. I'd like to see a little bit of both

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  4. Yea I think making them useable as a dark angels and CSM supplement would make sense. The only thing is if it is noe exclusively a DA supplement, what would DA get?

    Terminators on bikes?!

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    1. Having them as allies with both DA and CSM would be sweet as I really want to have Fallen as an allied contingent with Alpha legion

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    2. Really the problem is though a fluffy Fallen army should only represent a fraction of the things available in either book, and GW won't restrict them that heavily.

      It should probably be a Chaos supplement if only to represent the fact that the Fallen disappeared with old tech, they should have autocannons, not assault cannons for example, and they feel that book can represent renegades, not only full fledged chaos worshippers.

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  5. I spoke with Jeremy at games day as well amd we had a nice discussion about dark angels and several times he mentioned wanting and pushing for a fallen supplement and eventually an angels of absolution or something along those lines. he brought up a fallen supplement without me asking several times

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    1. What else did he say about the DA? Did he mention how the flyers and LSV are completely overcosted? :)

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  6. That rumor is not correct. The actual thing that Vetock said was to someone on Dakkadakka:

    "Pwn'd You" said: 'I also spoke to Jeremy vetock and he said he wants and is pushin for a fallen angels supplement as well as other dark angels supplements'

    That's a bit different than 'announced at games day that there will definitely be a fallen supplement coming'

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  7. The fallen are interesting but how on earth they will write a full army for them when they are few and far between and only encountered rarely. Only time will tell.

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    1. People keep saying this... HALF the legion got flung through the warp and enter back into realspace at random times and in random number. "Small Bands" was referenced earlier. I don't know about you, but my 1850 list very rarely has more than 50 models, and that includes alot of armor. Exactly how big can a "Band" be?

      Angels of Darkness references several incursions where small groups and individuals would try to find each other and the DA had to stop that to protect the secrets. The Fallen may not be able to field 1000 men like modern chapters, but a small company, I bet they could. Especially since, according to the fluff, they emerge into the modern day with no time passing for them. They are not tainted. They are not crazy. Nor are they evil. Troopers follow orders, Lion assigned every fallen squad to Caliban. Luthor convinced them that Lion betrayed them.(I agree btw) That doesn't make them Chaos though.

      Being a DA supplement would work for me for sure, since I have black marines rather than green. My whole army is first legion. Green marines suck.

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    2. "The Fallen may not be able to field 1000 men like modern chapters"

      You do realize that a Legion was much larger than a Chapter? So if half the Legion is fallen, they are quite a lot more than 1000 people. Probably more like 20-30.000 (can't remember how big the First Legion)

      And hey maybe they have finaly gotten a sizable force together.

      (PS: Interesting thing in the horus Heresy book "First Heretic" about the Lion. There is a passage where all the chaos Primarchs are mention, along with a 10th one that sound a lot like the Lion. And in the Primarchs book it is quite clear that Chaos has had a role in his life for some time. If he probably hasn't fallen to chaos at that time, but that doesn't mean chaos doesn't like hime :D)

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  8. Yes Please!! Even if it's just something Vetock is pushing for at the moment I'd love to see it come to fruition.
    I've often been tempted to start a Fallen themed Chaos Space Marine list, maybe this would be a better way to do it.

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  9. Well, if they can do the Fallen, and I think that's cool, I would like to see a Dark Wolves supplement when the very far off 6th Edition Space Wolves codex is released.

    A guy can dream, yeah?

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    1. If there are Wolves supplements, I'd expect 13th Company before anything else. And I'm totally cool with that.

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  10. I would really expect it to be a DA supplement, if only because CSM is going to be schedule packed for supplements but DA don't have any majorly popular alternates besides fallen

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  11. I was looking through old posts and thought that this must be what the rules for cypher were for a they looked much too official to be fake. I'd like to see the start of a cross over supplement allowing you to field units from boths codices. But then again what do I know I'm not the money grabbing games workshop.

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  13. > Fallen Supplement Announced
    > Releases, No Rules for using Cypher in 40K

    Oh man, if this happens - I'm drinking the tears >:3

    But seriously, they need the Rules for Cypher in there. Otherwise, it's just not The Fallen X3

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    1. Yeah, running Cypher as a Chaos Lord doesn't cut it. I'm pretty sure that Jervis Johnson (who wrote his background/rules for the 2nd Edition CSM book, apparently modelling him off Clint Eastwood's character in High Plains Drifter) confirmed that he's NOT a Chaos Marine. So yeah, having him turn into a Spawn or Daemon Prince wouldn't make sense, fluff-wise.

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  14. I think it'd make more sense to be a da supplement, think of it kinda like the 13th house of space wolves, they disappeared with older tech but would you make them a supplement of anything else?

    Also they should be desperate allies, to my understanding fallen work to help dark angels but tend to keep their distance, maybe a special rule where they have to stay so far away from dark angel allies? but at the same time you look at dark eldar and eldar and they're battle brothers so you never know with games workshop.

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    1. Dark Eldar don't worship or venerate chaos though. They're more piratical and diabolical and seen as a risk by the craft world cousins due to the fact they still engage in the kind of debauchery that led to the fall. Plus, CWE are too few to be fussy when DE pitch in with some heavy lifting once in a while.

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    2. No I know that but I could see Allies of Convenience rather than Battle Brothers.

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    3. I could actually see the Fallen being the first joint-Codex supplement, taking elements from both DA and CSMs. Still, a DA-only supplement would work, since any Chaos Marine elements could be written into its rules.

      I'm also hoping for more HH-era equipment lifted from the Forge World rules, since a lot of the Fallen haven't really experienced much time since the Fall of Caliban. Volkite Calivers? Yes, please!

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  15. Pitching in with more than a 1 word statement, everyone seems to be forgetting the largest part of a Fallen Army in the background- GUARD. Could this Suppliment not work best as a Guard army? Marine HQ and elites, fast attack and 1 squad of marines for every 2 of guard? Because the Fallen need lots of meat shield/speed bumps to slow down the Ravenwing with when they come knocking

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    1. You have a very good point. Astelan was captured leading an entire world of PDF, following in Lion's footsteps. I don't think it will be a guard supplement, as they have many many other choices that work better for them, but a supplement that would incorporate pdf/conscripts and some regular guard would be neat. Though that would defeat the purpose of Allies.

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    2. It depends on the circumstances under which they appear. I can see Fallen being a great allies choice for Imperial Guard, yet I can also see them banding together into a SM Company-sized force in their own right (Cypher's gift for attracting the Fallen to his side would play a huge role in this). After all, even though the DAs only have the names of about a hundred Fallen from Luther's original list, as per Angels of Darkness, there are many more that they DON'T know about. After all, the Fallen made up as much as half the Legion, depending on your background source!

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  16. Pretty exciting stuff. Would be massively dissapointed if this was a Chaos supplement though. All the fluff suggests it should be a DAngel supplement.

    Then there's the fact that there is very limited scope for DAngel supplements, whereas Chaos already have the 9(8?) traitor legions to go through if they so choose.

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    1. 10 if you include Red Corsairs...

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    2. With the non-specific way that the Chaos Marine Codex has been going in terms of God dedications since 4th edition, I'd think that the current book is perfect for Corsairs, as well as for some of the First Founding Traitor Legions (with the return of cultists and Dark Apostles, CSM with Daemon allies can cover Word Bearers perfectly). Still, I'll be interested to see if they're trying to break some of the more generic Legions out of that mould, which seems to be implied by the upcoming Black Legion supplement.

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  17. From what I've heard, we're getting the Next csm supplement wrong. The Fallen is supposed to be next supplement for Chaos.

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  18. From what I've heard, we're getting the Next csm supplement wrong. The Fallen is supposed to be next supplement for Chaos.

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  19. I think it will be a DA Supplement with access to Guard platoons and veterans, No deathwing Knights or BlackKnights access

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    1. Actually if you were going to do it that way, they couldn't take any DW or RW as both those units hunt the Fallen. RW finds them, DW catches them, Chaplains interrogate them, and apparently Dark Talons transport them. Just as well that awful model needs a job, sucks on the table.

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  20. Natfka! You should start writing your post titles like newspaper headlines. For example this post should have been something like "fallen suppliment info drops" or "rumours of fallen suppliment caught"

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  21. Natfka! You should start writing your post titles like newspaper headlines. For example this post should have been something like "fallen suppliment info drops" or "rumours of fallen suppliment caught"

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  22. Wow so many comments, I'm sorry if someone else posted this but why not make it that the fallen can be allies with the da but the da can't be allies with the fallen, would make for some interesting games!!

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  23. If it's not a Chaos supplement, the wole Inner circle rule doesn't make sense anymore. So the codex will remove all the HQ and the DW of the DA codex? I don't call that a supplement but a rewrite...

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    1. Yeah, it would require a lot of revision, since a lot of the Dark Angels' more deviant elements came after the Horus Heresy, in reaction to the Fallen (the only exception being Company Veterans, who are a holdover from the Marine Legion structure). I could actually see it being a joint supplement that uses both the DA and CSM books.

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  24. Some update where DA could use new SM models would be nice....

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