This rumor bit declares that Finecast resin models from Games Workshop is meant to only be a temporary stopgap between the high cost of metal models, to a complete conversion over to plastic in the near future. Of course that near future might be 2-3 years out, but that is near enough for me.


This conversation was collated by Kroothawk. I did edit out the drama from the quotes. (that kind of negative melodrama is really only ever needed in Soap Operas, and I am saving readers from it) Its not often I remove parts of rumors, hence the explanation.

Please remember that this is a rumor. Salt required.

via faj3r over on Warseer
I heard, from reliable source, that all finecast are going to be mail-order exclusive (my source gave it as a fact) 

Comment was that it's possible, that the're going into plastic with characters - instead of finecast and metal - because it's cheaper and technology of plastic miniatures they have great these days (that I think is my source speculation)



via 75hastings69 on Warseer
 I have HEARD via my sources that finecast has pretty much been recognised as not fit for purpose, and within the timeframe I gave in that thread it is as Starfarer suggests that GW will go pretty much 100% plastic.

They are presenting (or getting together the presentation) that FineCAST was only ever a stop gap, and that plastic is the real future..... 

Plastic may well be the future, but not if its all angular CAD sculpted soul-less crap, with increasingly less detail..... that's not the future,

Plastic is my medium of choice, so I applaud a move to all plastic. 

This all plastic rumour shouldn't be attributed to me, I'm just passing on what I've heard.

A week ago, on 18th January:
via 75hastings69 on Warseer
There is however a long term goal, although its a bit shorter now and should be seen in the next 2 - 3 years if my sources are correct  FineCAST is not work in progress it's a live product that is on sale to the public, it was work in progress for the minimum 8 months before public launch that they were meant to be testing it!

70 Comments:

  1. "100% plastic"

    *dies*

    Seriously though. Finecast was a good idea. That was just executed really bad.

    REALLY BAD!

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    1. Of course it was a really terrific idea, they can sell ONE mini for 20$. GREAT idea to make a hole in our pockets. There is no possible explanation to keep on doing models with a material that is more expensive and in most cases harder to work with (bending, holes) than plastic. The suposedly "higher quality" is a lie: no one can tell if a mini is finecast or plastic by just looking at it, there is no real difference right now, only the price.

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    2. GW touted FAILcost as being MUCH cheaper with eh same quality, then released the same old sculpts for a MUCH higher price and much LOWER level of quality.

      It was a marketing/PR disaster I think. I have hundreds of GW minis, including quite a lot of Forgeworld, however I have just 2 FAILcost models in my collection. I did have 3 but I sold my first one (cheap) as it wasn't made right, broke when I tried to fix it, and never looked right thereafter.

      Even the two I still have had issues, though they were minor and easily concealed, however the level of quality does not match the exorbitant price, thus I won't purchase any more of it.

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    3. The idea of having a lighter more detailed model sounded good at the time.

      Unfortunately you are right and they are less of quality( still a little easier to paint and more detailed than metal imo) and more expensive. I have an entire Death Korps of Krieg army plus numerous other FW resin stuff so I can tell that resin can deffinately be good.

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    4. It doesn't put a hole in your pocket unless you agree to buy it.

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    5. to: Ricard,
      I think the point of Finecast was to use a material that was cheaper than metal, while also leveraging the facilities already in place to cast metal minis. They already have the molds, so figuring out how to cast in resin -- which people were already doing, was a logical step. They just couldn't scale up to the volume needed without quality issues. Oh well. Customers still bought it, and continue to buy it. Soon those models and molds will be legacy product, and superseded by plastic models.

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    6. The first batch of finecast stuff had issues - given that they had to cast enough to replace their entire inventory, that was perhaps inevitable, but definitely not the best start to the new range.

      But since the first lot, none of the Finecast minis I've bought have had any more issues than any metal mini I've bought over the last few years. Putting together my latest batch of 'nid finecasts was really painless compared to putting together the Skorne stuff I bought for Hordes.

      Now that I'm used to alternatives, I hate metal models - they need pinning, they need gap filling, they're heavy and the paint chips easily. Finecast minis might need a bit of a tidy up, but no worse than metals.

      Delete
  2. "Plastic may well be the future, but not if its all angular CAD sculpted soul-less crap, with increasingly less detail..... that's not the future, I can buy that kind of cartoony crap now from PP! "

    That's not really a valid characterization of GW's plastics imo. I think they are fantastic, including their single-character blisters they started making. I love plastic and hope to God this rumor is true, because I really dislike finecast.

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    1. Agreed, the new DA plastics I've gotten are as crisp as any GW/Forgeworld model and free of the defects that plague finecast.

      I can't see how this could ever happen (the mould cost is too high for low-selling kits) But I would love for it to be true.

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    2. What does that have to do with his comment? He was making a moronic comment about Privateer Press, but that wasn't about GW at all as far as I can tell.

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    3. I took the first part of the comment to be about GW and the fact that they need to either maintain or improve the quality of their plastics - punctuated with a jab at PP.

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    4. All the plastics from both of those companies are awesome! I think Hastings probably hasn't seen the new PP plastics.

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    5. I think he was referring to the plastics in the space hulk, and dark vengeance sets, due to the constraints of the material some of the undercuts were simply filled in and so from any angle except top down the detail is soft, and elements of the models tend to blurr.

      The PP comment is purely his opinion. And one that many will disagree on. I'm not one of those people though. Whilst I admit they have improved, PP is still well behind GW on the plastics front.

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    6. They _are_ a much younger company.

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    7. Doesn't matter if they are younger. It's not like PP had to start with the same tech GW started with, just years later. They got to start with the latest and greatest. GW is just better at making models.

      If youth were the argument, then PP will never catch GW, right?

      To be fair, most of PP's stuff is low-detail, single-pose, very few - if any - additional bits, and costs more per model than GW.

      PP also doesn't have the logistical nightmare of making enough models to feed giant armies to thousands of distributors and millions of players. Smaller factions, smaller scale game, fewer carriers of the product. Yet they still charge more per model, for worse models. It's just a fact, not an opinion.

      Jacks with hulking bodies and tiny legs?
      Trolls that came straight out of a Saturday morning cartoon?
      Blades so big they put Final Fantasy to shame?
      Hand and feet proportions that make Super Hero Squad look to-scale?
      The whole idea that a warzone the size of Virginia can house a dozen factions with the resources to build standing armies and building-sized machines of war? Right...

      I think PP is great, by the way. Competition always is. It is complete nonsense to think GW is the biggest offender of anything in the genre, seeing as how they've managed to pull ahead of PP even further in the last 18 months after what appeared to be a closing gap. Both in profit and in volume. Obviously they are doing something right. The consumers decide that with their money.

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    8. Actually the "worse models" things is an opinion. Warmachine and Hordes has a different feel to the models and are less detailed but that doesn't make them worse. And the more money per model argument is not always true. Warjacks / Warbeasts range from 25 - 40 not including the Battle engines / Colossal / Gargantuan models. Most warcasters are under 20 which puts them in the ballpark with GW characters.

      Don't get me wrong, I still play 40k / WHFB but they are still way ahead in pricing.

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  3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  4. I like both so I'm happy either way.

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    1. That's a good(and rare) outlook.

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    2. GW make very good plastic models, and I like their finecast. So you're not alone!

      Maybe I'm yet to have a bad experience with it but I've never seen anything bad about finecast (except people complaining about it on the internet of course!).

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  5. Guess I'll wait on Throgg :)

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    Replies
    1. Agreed, love the model but I can't justify that price insanity.

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    2. Don't expect them to lower the price when he moves to plastic. Chances are he will come with additional bits and even builds (a la the Hive Tyrant) to justify the price. He will still likely be around $58, however.

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  6. GW had better move to all plastic pronto or Mantic will be eating their lunches. Those new Stormtrooper upgrade sprues that they are releasing are stunning and remarkably more economical than anything GW is doing.

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    Replies
    1. Mantic? Sorry, but for myriad reasons that will never happen.

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    2. Thank you for using "myriad" properly.

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    3. Mantic has some quality issues to iron out before they can compete.

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  7. Gdub is going all plastic! duh... little late to the party on that rumor.

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  8. Completely plastic was old news, but the "long term" in GW corporate speech would actually mean within 2-3 years? Sound rather abrupt, but they did manage to crunch out the Finecast quite quickly too.

    My spider-senses tell me that along with this, Battlefleet Gothic, Epic 40K, and Warmaster will be going the way of the dodo, with Blood Bowl, Mordheim, and Necromunda following close behind (unless GW has read my mind and is preparing "core" game kits that can be used in the Specialist Games as such or with upgrade sprues or with moderate conversion - alas, BFG or 6mm scale do not have this "get out of jail free" card).

    The question remains, what will this mean to Forgeworld, whether they will keep doing what they have always done, or will GW start converting more and more of their kits into plastic too - remembering that producing a pirated recast of injection-moulded plastic is much more difficult and expensive than that of hand-cast resin.

    Also, plastic being plastic, its resale value and reusability are lower, so in the even longer run, GW will no doubt hope to gain back some of the sales it has lost to eBay and the like. Or not. Now would be a good time to invest in ANY metal figure from GW, because once the Collectors range and Specialist games start dropping out of sale (keep an eye on those!), the prices WILL skyrocket. And of course, as always, all the panic and hoarding of the remaining metals will result in a speculative bubble on the aftermarket that will eventually burst when some investors join the party a wee bit too late at just slightly too high price, and are left with a fortune invested in metal miniatures that are no longer so valuable anymore, and start dumping them on the market at any price...

    That said, plastic Sisters, plastic Rough Riders, plastic Stormtroopers, plastic servitors, plastic Inquisitors, oh my!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "emembering that producing a pirated recast of injection-moulded plastic is much more difficult and expensive than that of hand-cast resin."

      Have you seen some of the recent bootlegs on Ebay? I bought what I thought was a plastic Chaos champion still on sprue. When it arrived from China, it was clearly still on sprue and new, but also clearly resin. Great quality though. The bootleggers willmake it happen, as obviously GW couldn't.

      What GW should do it move to all plastic, and release *metal* Finecast/Limited editions. The the cost is justified, and the detail is whatever the sculptor can manage.

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  9. It has been hard to find most finecast characters on the shelf recently (unless they are literally just released!)
    Still, I won't hold my breath and I'll plod along with finecast for now...

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  10. Ok Folks, Hate to burst GW's plastic bubble. Gw plastic is not that good. GW is still using 2 piece injection moldind, Now the current norm is a 4 piece sliding plate molds. What is the difference? Plenty the new plastic still have way to much non negative spaces and they are reusing designs over and over again, just point and click. There is a ton of room for GW to improve there plastic molding DO NOT GW FOOL YOU!

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    1. I don't have a word on plastic injection, and I don't mind/care, I simply like the results, it doesn't matter if there is one injector or 20, the final piece, when it is assembled, can have 3 or 40 parts... if it is a nice model, it will look good. If it is a crap, it will be a 4 injection crap.

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    2. And yet they still make the best miniatures by a mile. If there's is crap, what is everyone else's?

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    3. The way I understand it, GW has been using sliding plate since the release och the first Apocalypse expansion. (WD had an article on its use on the Baneblade).

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  11. Off topic, but my not-so local GW has said that all Limited Edition Dark Vengeance's are being/have been sent back to the warehouse due to "limited time on the shelves". If you ask me I think it may be more of a "didn't sell many to due insane price".

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    1. I really hope so, and I really hope because I don't want to be the only one to think that their prices are a complete madness. The only way we can show them is choosing wisely what to and what not to buy.
      One finecast mini for 20$??? NO WAY when the same manufacturer sells 12 plastic figures for 24$... and they get profit of plastic anyway.

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    2. Yeah its not really worth the extra $$$ unless you are an avid DA player who just NEEDED that chaplain.

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    3. Well, it costs them a whole lot less to pump out sprues of plastic that will sell en masse than it does to make a mold for a single character that no one will ever buy more than one of.

      The only way to profit from a Finecast character is to max out the price. Plastic infantry kits will sell by the truckload and the profits will be easily had in volume.

      Pretty much every business under the sun understands that.

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    4. @McDoogle

      It costs GW at most $30 including labor costs to produce a Finecast mold, that will probably produce 12-18 copies at a time. Plastic injections molds are MANY times more expensive and take much more time. They use the same molds (more or less) for casting metal minis as for Finecast minis. Takes one guy 2-6 hrs to produce a production mold for Finecast from 1 model.

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  12. I dont think changing over to plastic is going to do one tiff to the pricing. If anything, I expect a bump in price due to the Awesome nature of plastic and the new higher quality of the models because of the change. I mean, Finecast was supposed to be cheaper, according to the propoganda they fed us, and prices jumped up way high. Now they are telling us again that plastic is cheaper...

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    1. They will justify it as they did the Hive Tyrant: throw in a ton of extra bits, even alternate builds, and then keep the price the same.

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  13. Slightly skeptical. I mean, didn't they just release a whole new swathe of miniatures in finecast, that could very easily have been plastic? Throgg, for instance?

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  14. I don't really have issues with any of GW's materials. I loved the old lead/pewter/white metal models (especially the price as I remember when a £3 blister pack got you either 3 Marines or 2 Terminators) but the weight sucked if you had to lug about a significant amount. Back then though, the metal models were insanely more detailed than the plastic, one just has to look up the old Space Hulk Terminators or it's Genestealer expansion Librarians to see that.

    Now resin has mostly replaced the metal models, the plastic boxes now are at least as detailed as the old metal figures used to be and I'm cool with both. Both Finecast and Forgeworld resin have been mostly joyous to work with and one the very rare occasion that I've had an imperfect resin model, GW and FW have replaced it with the absolute minimum of fuss at no cost. Resin is much easier to work with than the metal models too, just soak with hot water, set the piece to it's correct shape and leave for a few mins, done. No pliers or any tools needed and if you do need to get tools involved then resin is much easier to file, drill and pin for conversions.

    Most people complain about Finecast quality due to bitterness over the pricing, not because 95% of the product is actually bad.

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  15. I have just one questioN:
    Why was it impossible to make a transition from metal to plastic?

    To me it sounds like a legend made up to cover the royal eff-up Finecast proved to be. Now they say:" Wait, that was just a misunderstanding, my friends. Of course we always intended to shift everything to plastic. And you can't prove the opposite."

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    1. Finecast resin can be cast into the same molds/processes used for metal minis. FW uses completely different casting process for their resin, which is why the minis from FW and China are a different color/texture.

      GW was trying to save money and time while keeping the detail and ease of production.

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  16. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember gw through white dwarf going on about wanting to move to all plastic in the long term for years, IIRC first time I remember hearing it was around the time of release for the 4th ed space marine codex and the space marine commander box? (which I happen to love btw)

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  17. Well, if they were to go 100% plastic, they'd have to re-do all special characters. Which is very unlikely in my books. Plus even if they did actually do that, the price to the consumer wouldn't go down. If anything it'd probably rise to cover the cost of making up new sculpts/molds.

    And the CSM Aspiring Champion is a good example of how new single-model plastics in the future won't be cheap.

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    1. Cheaper than a lot of the finecast single figures!
      I'm looking at you warpsmith with your awesome doctor octopus fashion sense and your rediculous price tag... >:/

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  18. I like Finecast a lot. However, there is some good ground for them to cover. The Aspiring Chaos Space Marine Champion is a fantastic mini for a plastic. I imagine that they would have to do some major resculpts on the current Finecast range unless they seamlessly carry over to plastic molds.

    Basically- I'm inclined to say that this rumor is not true.

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    Replies
    1. agree Travis - the CSM Champion is a fantastic model and shows what GW can do with plastic if they really put their minds to it. same with the DV Librarian - I just finished painting one, and the detail on it took me a week to get through.

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    2. Teh Aspiring Champion is a great sculpt. Just a crappy pose. Why [hands raised to the heavens] must every Chaos model be action guy? Whats wrong with "Evil Guy" pose? I almost picked one up, but couldn't get past the "Running Man" thing. Great sculpt though.

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  19. "Why was it impossible to make a transition from metal to plastic?"

    Because the metal moulds were still usable and still represented an investment that needed a return, so they would be used to cast resin (which is much cheaper than tin) instead for as long as possible, and only after they would have to be sold for scrap, they would be replaced by the new plastic moulds?

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  20. As a Tyranid player, I really welcome this move (if true). With roughly half the 'nid line being Finecast now, I'm really glad I bought most of my stuff during the metal days. Broodlords, for example, used to be around $12. I think the Finecast one goes for close to $30.

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    1. The broodloard seems to go for $19 using the current $/£ exchange rate.

      http://totalwargamer.co.uk/tyranid-broodlord.html

      I actually think a lot of the complaints over pricing is due to the fact the the USD has lost a significant portion of it's value over the last few years, and GW probably uses the UK as a baseline for other countries.

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    2. Very well could be that. The dollar's been climbing, but not enough to bridge that gap. Hadn't thought about that, but you're probably right.

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  21. if this is true, I just wet myself.

    seriously - after buying only 4 finecast models, I have sworn off the sh*t for good. I'd love to have a Sternguard Squad, but it only comes in failcast. If these things are made in plastic, with multiple options for builds, I will be a happy camper.

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  22. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    1. It may be misleading, but I continue to edit or delete portions that use melodramatic terms finecrap or other associated garbage. Its just plain form. So I apologize that I had to delete your comment and repost your comment.

      Here is what starfarer commented minus the drama. You are right I could of edited it much better.

      "Natfka, the way you have edited that quote makes it pretty misleading. That was part of a discussion on Warseer about future releases, and I mentioned that GW's ultimate goal was to transition completely to plastic over time. They themselves stated this around the release of Finecast and stated then Fineast was a stop-gap between metal and all plastic. The fact that you snipped the first part of Hastings quote makes it seem as if I'm privy to some inside information, when I was simply discussing already known plans, and answered poster's question about plastic releases on the forum directed at Hastings, which he then confirmed, which is why he mentioned my name.I love your site, but cutting bits of quotes from a forum discussion to make it seem there is more of a rumor than exists isn't cool. If it did not have originate from you, I apologize, but I haven't seen Hastings quote edited as it is here on other sites. Here is the full sentence from Hastings, which gives more context: "I have HEARD via my sources that finecast has pretty much been recognised as not fit for purpose, and within the timeframe I gave in that thread it is as Starfarer suggests that GW will go pretty much 100% plastic.

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    2. I also changed the original post as well.

      Thanks Starfarer.

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    3. No problem, just wanted to clear up I'm not the source here. Thanks for updating the main post to clarify.

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  23. If anyone is expecting all the old metal/FC moulds for special characters to be replaced in only a few years you're going to be sorely dissapointed. It's true that FC is a temp solution for old metal models like Draigo and plastic moulding will be phased in to eventually fill all major releases, but don't expect plastic Draigos anytime soon.

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  24. So, to sum up:

    In 2-3 years time, all NEW releases will be in plastic, not Finecast. Over this period, Finecast is gradually phased out from NEW releases in favour of plastic (cf. the new Chaos Champion that could have been Finecast just as well and in the days of yore would have been metal), it will be used only in the kits and upgrades presumed to sell less (unless those are eventually relegated to Forgeworld entirely).

    Meanwhile, as stocks run dry, old metals are replaced with Finecast versions (if GW wants to keep them stock, that is), and existing Finecast stays Finecast even after no new Finecast is released. New plastic kits are only made of the metals and Finecast (or rather, of their subject matter) if GW really wants something in plastic, or when the moulds finally do wear out.

    Did I get it right?

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