There is often a lot of conversations that go on behind the scenes here at Faeit 212, and while most of them will not see the light of day, I was given permission to post up on two recent conversations. This is the first.

To catch up, we were discussing the role of White Dwarf, pot holes, and codex updates.
 pot holes; a term meaning "a unit left out of a codex when it is released"


Please understand, If any parts of this seem missing or feel like things were removed or moved around, its because they were. This is the part of the conversation that I was given permission to share here on the site. The parts that are here, were left as is, and not edited.


Look for the second conversation to be released later today!


Behind the Scenes Conversation (the not me part, and must remain anonymous source)
You can expect to see a lot more rules updates in White Dwarf in the future.  A focus of 6th edition isn't just to be cinematic, but also to make sure that armies stay relevant and current even as their codex ages.


This means not only point cost or stat changes to existing units, but also entirely new units and models being released after a codex has been printed.


A lot of good ideas in the past have sat waiting for the next edition to come out.  This new method will allow inter-edition changes, either to address concerns a specific army may have as the edition matures or even just because it's awesome and shouldn't have to wait 4-5 years to become part of the game.


We're seeing a new era for White Dwarf that is more than just a glorified catalogue of upcoming releases.  Expect good things.


------------------------
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Natfka wrote
Another thing I was thinking about regarding this. It also helps GW with not having to leave units without models for extended periods of time (the chapterhouse debacle thing). Instead they would just leave that pot-hole there, and fill it when they can get the model into production.

This could also very much lead to even higher quality models, as designers would not have to rush a model at the last minute to make a codex deadline (and then have the design, if it missed the deadline, sit out for years). This will also help keep codices up to date, and for the obsessive hobbyists like myself and many that I know, it will help armies stay valid, and instead of the huge gaps between codex releases we would be seeing updates.

So I see a huge positive in this model, even if they intentionally leave something out because the model will not be ready. (personally it only hampers my modelling somewhat, I love to convert, i just wish i had more time for it).

I had started a post loosely on this topic over the weekend when I heard that a codex insert was in White Dwarf (still in draft form). I was wondering if anything of this conversation was usable or not for the site. The idea of intentional pot-holes in codices was not something I had considered.

77 Comments:

  1. I can't wait for the white dwarf to be usable again. I have been collecting it since issue 142 and the last couple of years it has been nothing but a glorified advertisement of what's new. And the price is ridiculous now.
    I can't wait for usable rules, to look forward to what the next issue may bring, to be excited once again that it is out. It has been to long since I have looked forward too the new issue, let alone read the entire thing.
    Here is to hope once again, and to sixth bringing it all back to life!

    ReplyDelete
  2. The pot hole idea would also tie in well with the new digital media being release. If these updates are free or not is another thing

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. as long as everyone doesnt have to but an Ipad... we need them on Android too!!!

      Delete
    2. be nice if they released them in a simple ebook reader format too. or maybe something a laptops can read, I don't have a cell phone and won't be getting one

      Delete
  3. Guess I did the right thing in subscribing for a year after the last couple of very good issues.
    Previously I only bought it once every few months.

    ReplyDelete
  4. So now er will have to BuY wd for rule FAQs !
    Thx -.-

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Funnily enough in 3rd Edition you did buy WD for FAQ's and rule errata's so I am okay with this.

      Delete
    2. No one mentioned buying FAQ's. I dont know what article people are reading.

      Army and unit updates, including new units.

      Delete
    3. Natfka, I think he is complaining about the idea that he might have to buy White Dwarf to be able to get the updated rules...People love to hide behind anonymous handles...

      I am sure rules will be made available in a PDF form or something on the site after the release to be safe.

      Delete
  5. I imagine a number of people will be unhappy that you'll need to buy every White Dwarf again - I think it's nice though, a return to the old days when WD was awesome and new exciting things came out because they could!(Although I don't know how long the cycle will last before they stop it like they did last time, when to play a game you needed a suitcase full of rulebooks and WDs...)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well there is the Chapter Approved series that can be brought to life then...

      Delete
    2. White dwarf wasn't awesome. It was required to play. Entirely a different matter...

      Delete
  6. This sounds great. Another important development in the sustainability of codices is the new Codex: Space Marines for iPad.
    With 6th edition they released an update that completely revamped and updated the book, including all the tiny changes made in the last years (and big ones, like the Stormtalon) as well as brand new stuff, like Hull points.

    Not that everyone owns an iPad, of course, but those of us who do will always have solid, updated codices, and GW can basically change them any way they want.
    Huge win, in my opinion.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would agree digital codecies would b awesome i would even consider buying my first tablet or ereader if they were more than just for ipad

      Delete
    2. agreed, they need to make these e-reader friendly if they want this to be something avaliable to everyone. ereader friendly would enable you to read it on just about any digital device

      Delete
  7. Cool, I wonder if we will see the return of Chapter Approved books?

    ReplyDelete
  8. It also means that their Digital Codexes become more important... if they update the ibook (or whatever) version with the latest stuff then it becomes the most up to date thing..
    Personally i'd prefer to carry my iPad (or droid tablet) around instead of all of the books...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This would be nice. Instead of having to purchase White Dwarf, I much rather have an updated digital copy.. even if I had to pay a couple of bucks every quarter for the updates.

      I'm with you, I carry my iPad for charts, FAQs, etc. I would like to add my codex too (without having to scan to pdf, and upload). Not until 6th did I start carrying a book again :-)

      Delete
    2. They NEED them on Android!

      Delete
  9. Just hope the system changes so you can use them on iPhone/android.

    ReplyDelete
  10. What nonsense. The game is expensive enough at 45 quid just for a rule book, without forking out every month for an update. This is what priced the game out of my playing in the mid 1990s. How can two people play when the accumulated rules they own will be different?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You don't have to buy every WD. In fact, even when they do stuff like chapter approved, all you need is the one WD with the rules you want to use (lets say for a special legion).
      You also don't have to play any special scenarios that may or not be released in the WD.
      For example, one of the last issues had rules for deathworlds but if you don't want to play them you'll never need it.

      In the end you could also just copy the 1-2 pages of rules that you want instead of bringing the mag with you all the time.

      Delete
    2. Well as the June flyer issue had sold out and my local store owner didn't have a copy i scaned the rules for the flyers and he gives a copy to anyone who buys one of the flyers that was released

      Delete
    3. and that's IMHO one of the big flaws, back issues.
      let's use a fairly major example. the Sisters of battle Codex. if you where just getting into 40K now, you'd even if you wanted to, basicly be unable to play SOBs. it seems to me that if they are going to go this route, they'd be well served to offer for sale "digital back issues"

      Delete
  11. I have all (Ok I missed 3 or 4 around issue 125)german WDs since issue 20 and I would love to see the old quality of the magazine come back. :)

    ReplyDelete
  12. I have got the digital space marines codex and the digital necron codex, both of which are excellent. They are ready for 6th edition an updates are free!

    I'm buying all mine this way in future

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. NICE free updates! Can't wait till my Army Dex is released digital.

      Delete
    2. And on Android...

      Delete
  13. I've always found anti-economic for GW to update rules trough codexes only, If someone only care for rules ( like most of us ) he whould just buy codexes. If he owns 3 armies, for example, he whould buy a codex every year and a half , more or less, for 90 £ in 5 years for GW . If he buys white dwarf for 5 years instead 7*12*5... much more money GW!!! ;)

    ReplyDelete
  14. To the people complaining about needing to buy the white dwarf magazine... If the price of a magazine monthly is the breaking point I'm surprised you're still here. That's 3 coffees I can't buy a month, or as I like to refer to it... The money that would have likely fallen out of my pocket on my run to work.

    As to the good ol days of white dwarf... This will only work if they start doing digital WD. Anyone remember issue I think 360? I think that's the number... It was sold out day one. My three local hobby shops were out and even GW was sold out within days. If they do a digital WD I'd be all over that because ill agree, I enjoy paper copies more than most but my girlfriend can't complain about my tablet taking up the same amount of space as all my codices and WD's.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That would be coffee for me for about 3 weeks, so I could have coffee every 1 in 4 days to trade off the price of WD???

      Just because you spend a lot on coffee or other stuff and have money just falling out of your pocket doesn't mean others don't have to watch what they are buying in some form or another.

      Delete
    2. If you can afford the game and models a $9 magazine when needed shouldn't be too outlandish .

      Delete
  15. There's a reason thes digital media isn't just downloadable PDF's. It's so that they can be updated.

    I would expect that rules from WD a few months later would go u for free download on the site or something.

    People overlook how much it costs to produce a magazine. Physically produce it mean, not write it. Printing and shipping is very expensive.

    Overal I feel like this will drive sales and keep things fresh. Maybe GW is learning from their competition.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. eh just make it so that it remembers your account and you can download it again once updated or something. by going with an ipad propertarity format it locks it out for anyone without an ipad

      Delete
  16. I'm confused. Who is having this conversation about WD updates? Is it just the Faeit guys, or is this some sort of leaked info and/or something from the open studio a couple weeks ago?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Neither. It is with a source who needs to remain anonymous.

      Delete
    2. that makes more sense. The whole "conversation behind the scenes" thing didnt suggest to me an external source, hence the confusion. Thanks for the clarification!

      Delete
    3. thanks for bringing it up. I edited the main post to make it more clear.

      Delete
  17. Why is everyone complaining? You can only play Sisters of Battle if you have the 2 issues of White Dwarf and they have run that in the past with Chapter Approved. I think that it is just a little something extra that they can do now and then release it digitally as well. (Even if I don't have an iPad)

    ReplyDelete
  18. I really like the idea I just hope they make a proper distribution platform to back this up so it is easily and reasonably accessible in the long term.

    ReplyDelete
  19. The idea that your army will not have to wait for a codex to be updated (sometimes 5+ years) is not on peoples minds? The cost of a White Dwarf for an update is not much. Just pick the ones that you want, your local game store carries them, and if they don't now, they will.

    This is not a "I must buy every White Dwarf thing". Once or twice a year just pick up the relevant ones that belong to your army or ally.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, I'd much rather them do this versus have them not release updates at all. Really, those are the two options. So, if you want to complain about getting updates, be careful what you wish for.

      Delete
    2. I think this will make the quality in units increase significantly not to mention quantity and the cool models themselves.

      Delete
    3. I feel like this is almost like a subscription based video game as well (not quite but similar). I for one am willing to pay a monthly subscription (in this case a couple times a year) and know that the developers are updating content more regularly. Ultimately creating a higher quality product. Also I think its nice for armies (lets say Nids, Tau, etc.) who aren't one of the next few Codex (Chaos and DA) to keep them in the loop and not feel completely alienated or neglected. Eg: See this months WD. Who saw that coming? Certainly not me. Nice surprise for Daemon players though.

      Delete
    4. I'm just worried about what happens if I decide I want to play a new army and I can't find the old WD issues I need.

      Delete
    5. excellent question. I hope someone is reading this comment section.

      Delete
    6. I think this will be more of a temporary "growing pain" concern. Eventually, all the codices will be available in digital format. Once that happens, you'll likely just be directed to use the digital version that is already updated. While the digital copies are only currently available on ipad, GW does intend to release it on other platforms. Thus, using the digital copy wont be as cost intensive as it is currently.

      Delete
    7. I'm sure they would have some way around this. I'm also a comic book collector and some comics allow you to buy a physical copy of them and inside it contains a code you can acquire the digital copy. That way if you lose your WD (if you buy them physically you will always have it digitally). If they do that they would have them available digitally and you could just pay the cost for the ones you need? Just an idea. There is a lot of issues with digital content though (as a librarian I know its touchy) so I'm not sure how they would handle this.

      Delete
    8. It's more money that I'd rather not pay, and the irony here is that if the White Dwarf print doesn't keep up with demand (let's say that someone gets into an army late in the game) then people will just start scanning it and pirating it, and how could GW refuse that? If they don't make the rules readily available once the White Dwarf sells out, then they're telling people who want to start a new army 'tough, you should have been collecting from the start'.

      On the other hand, if they make the rules leaflets readily available a few months after the White Dwarf releases, then people are just going to be upset that they paid for a White Dwarf to get rules they could have gotten for free.

      The only answer I see is a rise in copying the White Dwarf and giving the rules out to people. I'm even going to advise my FLGS manager to start scanning the rules leaflets that come out in White Dwarf so that they're readily available for new players and for tournaments.

      Delete
  20. People are complaining a lot about paying for WD. Would you rather buy the 2 issues you potentially need to field new units? or wait 4-5 years for them to completely redo your codex? I for one am happy with this change. Digitally updated codex would be amazing. I don't have a tablet (Ipad) yet but it would be one more thing to add to the list of why it would be beneficial.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I personally don't mind, and would love to see WD go digital, as well as all the codices.

      However, this is a moneygrab. That's not an insult, GW is a company to make money. My opinion 6thED is maybe an extremely SUCCESSFUL money grab. From a company standpoint they were able to produce (my opinion) an edition that is an absolute blast, AND incorporate just about every possible model they sell. Allies and Planetstrike (fortresses).

      The WD decision is a good idea too. Keep the game updated, and sell more copies of WD. Brillant.

      Some peeps are a bit bent as they would rather see updates for free via PDF downloads. That could've been a good strategy too.

      To me it's a good sign to see GW finally trying to help the game and the bottom line at the same time. Previously decisions to help their bottom line just seemed to alienate their customer base.

      Delete
    2. I completely agree that it is a money grab as I don't normally buy WD to be honest. But I am willing to shell out some funds because ultimately I think it does help the hobby as well as the players. I'd rather spend the X amount for a WD and have units usable in 1-2 months than wait the 4-5 years. It will spread out peoples purchases too so your not getting a new codex that year then having to spend X updating your entire army (or a good portion of it) in a single month or 2. Back to your original point I do know it is a slight money grab from GW, but one that will ultimately be easier on the wallet instead of people dumping hundreds of dollars every 4-5 years or even starting a new army altogether. Don't like the way your army is playing at the moment? Don't worry others probably feel the same way, GW can now fix the problem sooner and potentially keep their client interested longer while still keeping people buying. Sorry, kind of ranty. But once again I do agree it is a money grab :)

      Delete
    3. If they actually cared about the players they could have put those updates in the errata on the website. Its all about the money, plain an simple. I know this will get boos and hisses from the elite 60k up salary people on here, but hear me out. We already spend a ton of money to play this game, is it realy necessary to bleed us to the very last drop?

      Delete
    4. the term moneygrab though gives the visual of them grabbing your money and you get nothing but an empty wallet.

      Money Grab "an undignified or unprincipled acquisition of a large sum of money with little effort."

      I think changing the White Dwarf to follow this model is a great idea, and yes it will make money. We will see new and better models, a more evolving game, and codex updates. I personally think we are the biggest winners in this scenario.

      I would imagine that this model requires hiring new people, as it puts a lot of extra pressure on the designers to keep up with the game as well.

      I used to be a Selective White Dwarf buyer in the past, and I still hold onto some of them like treasure (cool fluff that they have never repeated). However, I have not bought one for almost 10 years (until recently). If I did not have this site, I would probably just buy the new White Dwarf's I needed, however I will probably just get a subscription for the first time ever.

      So yes, I think its a great idea to do this with White Dwarf and it will help the hobby at large, and I think that it is financially a smart idea for the company.

      Delete
    5. Agreed Natfka, money grab wasn't the term I was looking for. They are going to make money off of this decision but we are getting a great benefit from it, my apologies for the misuse of terminology.

      As for the anonymous comment. If they want to produce this material for free how are they going to pay writers, designers, modelers, artists, etc to work on all of these projects? It takes time and money. They are a company so they are after profit and I agree with you, I don't make 60k plus a year either but if I spend $30 on WD a year I'm ok with that. If you can't afford that I am not sure how you could afford to start an army in the first place (not trying to be a jerk, I'm just saying it isn't a cheap hobby to start in the first place). See my comment above about subscription based services (games) above (I feel this is a similar situation). I for one am willing to pay for updates if it means a better final product.

      Delete
    6. Yes. Yes it is.

      Delete
    7. My point about bleeding is this; you pay 40-70 on a new model box when it comes out, another 10+ to paint it, AND NOW you will pay another 10 to use it in the game. When will someone say enough is enough? Why not just tack on another dollar to the box price and INCLUDE a rule card for the unit? I'm amazed that nobody sees this for what it is, corporate greed at its most unchecked ugliness.

      Delete
    8. I do agree that this keeps White Dwarf more relevant, and it is exciting to think that certain armies may get updates in between Codices (like we're seeing with Chaos Daemons now). It'll be great to get jazzed up about potential new whole units and rules that could come to an army, shaking up the meta and releasing fancy models at the same time. I think GW could stand to earn a lot of capital this way and sell more White Dwarfs to boot.

      The trouble I see is when a model is released and readily available, but the rules aren't. Once the White Dwarf sells out (and they'll sell out faster now with this plan), where do you go to get the new rules and updates?

      Delete
    9. Also, the Anon above my post makes the best point yet. Just throw the rules leaflet (or a code to download it from the internet) in the model box.

      Delete
    10. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    11. I want to know model stats and rules before I invest 40-70 dollars into a product though. It doesn't help me if I have to buy a model that could potentially be worthless to my army set up. I'd rather invest in a white dwarf. Its a smart business plan by gw and we get something out of it. If they are going to go this route they are going to have a system in place to avoid not being able to get the rules for these things. Putting them in the box doesn't help. Instead your going to gamble on a 40-70 dollar product versus a 10-15 dollar investment (I haven't bought a wd in forever, so I'm not sure the cost...That said I'd love to pick up a wd every once in a while and this gives me more incentive to) my point being your playing an expensive hobby and complaining about gw pinching every penny from its players? 2 wd potentially a year? I don't consider this an outrageous investment. Also they aren't going to say "Hey once these issues of WD are gone everyone who doesn't have a copy is s.o.l. not going to happen. They will have something in place to compensate for this.

      Delete
    12. Investment is nonsense, you are paying for tbe rules to the unit, which is absurd. You buy a codex for the rules of your army. Now there will be intentional holes in all future codexs unless you buy an ipad and go digital. The idea of digital self updating codexs is awesome, but they need to go to a more universal format fast. Nobody wants to pay ghe triple markup for the apple logo for 40k rules. The rules for new units should be posted in the model description column of the gw website. You already paid for the codex, the rulebook, the paints, the model, enough is enough! I'm sorry natfka, but this is indeed a "money grab" by your definition!

      Delete
    13. And on a side note, I do on occasion buy a WD. My issue with this is the dirty money making tactics of multi charging for something youve already paid for.

      Delete
  21. My issue with this is the WD availability in my area. Unless I pick it up the day it comes out, it is sold out with no copies available for order. But to all of you complaining about cost, I'm sure there will be converted PDF files out there for download. Apple ipad or not, hackers find a way!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Here's to hoping for a return of the Chapter Approved books. Good times.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Geez, it only took them how long to relise the drop in WD sales was due to no longer putting out army updates?

    ReplyDelete
  24. About time WD stop being lazy. Theyve always had the potential for this...

    Heres to hoping for moar Necrons :D

    ReplyDelete
  25. In regards to: Natfka wrote:
    Another thing I was thinking about regarding this. It also helps GW with not having to leave units without models for extended periods of time (the chapterhouse debacle thing). Instead they would just leave that pot-hole there, and fill it when they can get the model into production.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but how is this that different from what GW has been doing? The Codex has the rules for the army's units (with rare exception like flyers), & GW has been releasing the models on their schedule. Where is this implied rush that the GW modeling team is suffering?

    ReplyDelete
  26. I'm going to show my age here now, and pull my head out of my old WD #6 long enough to lament the fall from grace WD is today. Without GW doing something, it would fade inro oblivion. At the moment it's advertising you pay for. Anything to bring it back into something useful will help WD survive. My only concern is keeping track of a codex via a pile of WD's + the codex. A digital distribution would help solve this.

    Hownowbrowntau

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Amen to that! My bookbag is heavy enough as it is, and I have no desire to shell out a ton of cash on an ipad!

      Delete
  27. "This is not a "I must buy every White Dwarf thing". Once or twice a year just pick up the relevant ones that belong to your army or ally."

    This. I'd love if WD got back to providing updates, new rules and erratas. The only WD I've bought in 5 years was the one with the Terrorgheist/Wraith rules, as I play VC.
    Having to wait for years and years for your army of choice to get some love, makes whiners of us all.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I feel like a lot of the complaints in this thread are valid.

    Upset about having to spend more money on White Dwarf they otherwise wouldn't.

    Upset at the potential that a white dwarf would be sold out, and they'd lose access to getting the rules.

    And a few others I skimmed.

    I think it's worth comparing though to the current situation:

    You don't spend money on White Dwarf, nor do you get new rules ever. If you want to play this way, just don't buy the new White Dwarf and it's like the situation hasn't changed for you.

    The internet is a wonderful tool, you're on it now, and it's not like any rules that are released in white dwarf won't be available. Whether it's from GW or just a scan is irrelevant.

    ReplyDelete
  29. This has got to be the worst idea for a long time. Not only do we have to have all codex and similar texts. We now have to have and carry around every issue of WD with rules and updates. If they atleast could release an annual rules book which would be enough to carry around would be great.

    Worst idea in a long time. Didn't work years ago with Warhammer quest, man-o-war, dark future, space hulk and similar games. I bet is, it wont work now either...

    ReplyDelete
  30. I see this as an interesting idea, and there is evidence of this in the new WD. (I got mine yesterday.)

    You had a booklet that gave you info for new Chaos Deamons vehicles. I love this idea, because then you just carry the booklet around. Saves on space, and with enough of them you can put them in a ring binder or something.

    One issue is availability. What happens when the issue sells out? One idea could be to start printing the booklets separately, and charge fifty pence, or something like that, for it. Might well be a useful thing. These booklets go on sale a month after the WD in question is in the shops.

    I agree about the restrictions to the e-books. I'd get one or two, but... iPad? Only? that's excluded me straight away, and I'm not checking regularly to see if they are suddenly stocking compatible books.

    As for people moaning about carrying all the books, and WDs about... come on, we are in the early 21st century. Scan the bits you need, or think you need, and then put them together as a PDF so you can have it on a laptop/phone/e-reader... A case in point, I play desktop RPGs with a group, and we had last month a big adventure, which was a competition. we were split into two teams, fighting to entertain Hades, who was going to release one of two people from death, if they chose the winning team. One was a powerful ally, one a powerful enemy. And we didn't know who chose which.

    There were lots of advanced rules and stuff, so I downloaded them all, read them and clued up as best as possible, made extensive notes on the other characters, from what I knew and could work out. I then dumped it all on my phone, and fielded it from there.

    This is how amazing technology is these days. People who are using the technology to fullest effect are going to be the ones succeeding. GW is slowly realising it needs to incorporate and include all this new technology.Al of this is a work in progress, and we need to keep that in mind.

    Also, what is to stop us from contacting them, to tell them what we want? If we can create logical, coherent cases, it might get listened to. I can see a number of things that GW could do that would be great ideas, but baffle me when they don't do them. Perhaps we need to tell them of our ideas in a constructive and positive manner, somehow?

    ReplyDelete
  31. If the Daemons update in WD is any indication...this a good idead then. I do not want my codex to sit for 5+ years!

    ReplyDelete
  32. What they could do is collate these updates up, and print them as a book every so often... that way, the info can be updated, and new players, who have not gotten the update, can then get them.

    ReplyDelete

 
Top
Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...