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The Rumors Continue about the Future of 40k



Here is a wrap up of some of the current rumors and talk being generated out there right now regarding what is happening with 30k, 40k, and admech etc. 


Please remember that these are rumors. This is just a wrap up to what else is being said out there right now.

Please visit the first article on this if you have not read it yet.
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/02/admech-30k-assassins-and-sisters-of.html

via WhispererofTruth on Dakka
The starter set will be joined by a plastic heresy armour set and some plastic Skitarri over the course of the next year. The idea of these boxes is allow players to create armies that can be played in both 30k and 40k and as such expand both markets. 

Both Admech and the Legions produced by FW proved to be popular beyond all expectations. So popular infact that GW can justify pumping out kits for a game that isn't even one of their core games. It's also being done as a safety nets, in case 9th ed Fantasy (Which 30k now outsells) crashes and burns, then they have 30k in place to pick up the pieces. 

The Old armour kit will be a mix of armour types rather than a kit of say Mk4 armour. All parts will be of course compatible with the current Space Marine range. I do believe a plastic servitor is being done too.


via Hastings on Warseer in response to above
This is partially true. The "starter set" is in fact a standalone game, however I'll accept starter set as it does lead onto the main 30k game. I think it's safe to assume that 30k could/will have a different game mechanic to 40k, or it would be pretty pointless as a standalone game. Hence the reason that some boxes will contain rules for both 30 & 40k (if the rules weren't different they'd only include 1 set of rules.

It's not however a safety net for WFB, it's a replacement for lotr/hobbit on the shelves as AFAIK all of this is going direct only. WFB is going to have plenty of store presence, and regardless of what many (and indeed I) think I don't think the reboot will be bad for WFB, especially if in it's current format is failing to sell. Hell at one point it was almost totally canned. 

You never know new WFB might just be awesome (not finecast awesome either), however my own feelings are that the background is what makes WFB, dick with this then it isn't WFB any more, and frankly that just isn't for me. I'm going a little O/T here posting about WFB on 40k (or should that be 30k??) boards but I feel it's as good a time as any. I think what's done WFB no good is the high entry cost and investment of time & money to get a decent army, making a game that's playable as a skirmish game AND a massed battle game does make financial sense, start small, minimal initial outlay, get people interested/hooked, build and buy a bigger army, SADLY this is where GW fall down, THIS IS WHAT THEY USED TO DO YEARS AGO, with games like Heroquest, Warhammer Quest, Blood Bowl etc. get people into the Warhammer world and setting and races of that fantasy world. 

They lost sight of this and thought that the product was self sustaining, it isn't, there is much more competition now for peoples hard earned cash than ever before, there are many companies that do similar and in some cases better stuff than GW and people know it, because other companies use the internet etc. to their advantage, GW see it as the enemy, and they are wrong. 

I guarantee this thread has generated more excitement in a few short hours than crap like warhammer visions ever will, and it won't cost them hardly anything. People including me are now thinking, maybe I'll get some nids really for genestealer cults coming along, or I'll pick up an extra deathstorm box for all the nids, or whatever, that GW is SALES. Hiding away ignoring your fan base is beyond ridiculous, especially in such a niche market. The fact that Whispereroftruth said "Admech..... proved popular beyond all expectations" shows just how little they know/listen to their fanbase, as this has been one of THE most wishlisted armies for so many years it is ridiculous. Anyway enough rambling.





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65 Comments

  1. i always had the feeling that the rumour mills were getting their wires crossed. a small skirmish game with the warhammer ip would be a great thing to replace the ailing lotr license with, and a good way to get new players into the bigger games

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    1. It's pretty clear they're going Hordes hardcore. Small skirmish lists, possibility for bigger battles, remove armies that sell poorly, etc.

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    2. im pretty sure they are the ones that started this way back in 8o's, No squats anymore Harleys just made a come back, really they are just looking to what made them successful in the beginning and getting back to their roots it would seem. Warmahordes did it that way and are moving into larger and larger games and models to drive model sales too.

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    3. I think where WHFB is concerned GW are their own worst enemy. They increase prices (where is our reduced prices now oil prices dropped?) and lower points costs until it costs €500+ to build a standard army and then complain that nobody new is buying in to the system in a recession.

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    4. The original Warhammer games were designed around much smaller units, but mainly because bigger units of lead figures weren't practical

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    5. They can't keep lowering prices every time oil prices change, considering how volatile the price of oil is. They'd have to change up their entire pricing structure all the freaking time.

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    6. Er they stick the prices up and blame rising oil prices don't they?

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    7. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    8. Ref Warmahordes: did PP develop rules to allow larger battles to be played at a reasonably brisk pace? I think that is one thing that GW is lacking that they would really benefit from. I mean, Apoc is fun and all, but its unreasonable to expect people to spend full days gaming in this day and age. Adapating the core Epic rules to be playable with 40k models might give people more incentive to have huge armies. given that they would be able to use them more often.

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  2. Yeah man, that Warseer thread has been a roller-coaster of emotion. I think we got all out of them we can:

    Admech (full)
    Deathwatch (mini)
    Genestealer Cult (mini)
    30K Istvaan Massacre (mini-game + 30K)
    Assassins (mini-game + 40K)

    Tzeentch models
    Dark Angels models
    (might be part of the campaign we had rumors of)
    Greater daemons modeled but NOT ready to ship, 2 this year, Bloodthirster + Lord of Change

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    1. Oh, and splattering of rumors concerning putting rules in boxes, and ending Codexes. Personally I'm a huge fan of this. Let GW release summary books with multiple army rules summaries + fluff, allowing them to rebalance broken things across the whole spectra, and then put out units when ready. It is also rumored that boxes may contain both 30K and 40K rules. This rumor was not 100% supported though.

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    2. I do not believe this is a viable strategy. I would not buy a book of a whole campaign between, say, Dark Eldar and Grey Knights to get one formation of Imperial Guard that was used as an artillery support for GK.

      Every army should have a codex detailing all of it's units. This is simply the way wargames should be played

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    3. But you could easily put all the formations for all armies in one book. Or make them available online.

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    4. Yeah, no, this is a ridiculous idea because the codexes let you know what the units can do before you buy them. There's no way they won't have SOMETHING that has the rules in separate from the models, regardless of if the models have rules with them or not, or if they're called codexes or whatever.

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    5. Uh. If they're online you'll know before you buy them.

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  3. You know what Hastings, you right :P

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    1. Yeah, I pretty much agree with everything he says.

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  4. How do you know warhammer was nearly canned??

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    1. It's a common rumor that's been circling about meetings behind closed doors as GW. I mean when FW 30K makes more money, and your struggling to be profitable, sometimes things just get canned.

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    2. It amuses me you try and justify one rumour with another. Both the talk about WHFB being almost canned and FW outselling WHFB are both unsubstantiated rumours.

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    3. And yet their expanding 30K to shelf space in stores, and they're getting rid of fantasy armies... C'mon dude. Don't tell me you're that naive.

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    4. And yet their expanding 30K to shelf space in stores, and they're getting rid of fantasy armies... C'mon dude. Don't tell me you're that naive.

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    5. Still doesn't mean 30k is outselling WFB. If that were true, then GW would have already been closed down. a strictly mail order (and costlier) game that is really just a repackaging of 40k is outselling a game that has huge presence in stores and substantially larger player base? Not buying it for a second.

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    6. 30k in stores...... I love this rumour given the size of most the 1 man stores, and the fact that alot of managers wind up with piles and piles of stock. I could not imagine where they would put it without getting bigger stores? (Biggest issue with that rumour especially if the lotr range has had its licence extended.)

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    7. @classic
      Thats exactly what they aim for. Closeing down all stores but a select few & doing very profitability Online selling of high margin, limited, collector items.

      They are trying to be like appel.
      Its just not working ;)

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    8. I've never been to a GW store a independant retailer store where 40/30k is selling better than WHFB.... In independant store its always Warmachine > WHFB >>>>>>>>>> X-wing >>>> 40k >>>>>>>>> 30k so i don't believe at all that whfb is diying.

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  5. How do you know warhammer was nearly canned??

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  6. I think 7th ed 40k is bogged down in too much small detail (personally, I liked that 'power weapons' was one category, not the power sword/axe/spear/pointy sticky of now), and that makes it difficult to introduce new players into the game.

    I like the direction they've taken with 40k - the supplemental codex, releases like Harlies, etc. - have been great and hope to see them continue (even if I think the rules could use some stream lining).

    GW has long been out of touch with their customer base. Closing their FB page, actions like that. It was a way to avoid criticism - if you give the customer no avenue to complain - you have no complaints! There's a lot of chaff to the internet ramblings, but I remember Jervis coming to Adepticon and talking with players in years past. They need to find ways to engage with their customers and get meaningful feedback.

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    1. The problem is the basement-dwellers and die-hards. Never have I seen a community with so much vitriol towards change and what are really hard choices for a company struggling to keep itself in the green. The only reason smaller gaming companies can reach out to the community is because they've already fled from big bad Evil GW, and are so blinded to anything bad about non-GW things that they'll spout things like "Warmachine is completely balanced", etc.

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    2. 1) Ad Hominem attacks invalidate any point you make.
      2) You clearly haven't been around any game for an extended period of time. Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: The Gathering have just as much "vitriol." It is called "criticism." People tend to have strong feelings about something they invest a large portion of their time and energy into.
      3) Setting up a straw man doesn't make your argument more impressive. The very fact that profits have been slipping for years should speak volumes to their incompetence.

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    3. To GWs merit they were one of the few businesses to keep growing bigger through the recession, and have droped alot of money on expanding their reach in terms of stores. And remodling current stores into one mans Where it works.

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    4. Yeah cutting staff is probably way expensiv -.-
      Closeing stores is all that happend dud. They close more than they Open. Since 2 years at least. + they kill the retailers that dont reach the volume.

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    5. Cutting staff? You are aware they shuffle their staff around the globe, I think the biggest transfer they did was a manager from a UK store to a US one and even had to fight the US government to do it. As for closing stores? Most just move venue or relocate to a diff part of the counyry if the store doesn't pull in customers it needs to be sustainable. And to be fair alot of people who even have a local gw will buy from independents and will be shocked to find that the GW store moves and kick out about it.

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  7. And 30k is an expansion to 40k, so please get your facts straight. Proof is in the beginning of the red books

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    1. Eh, it is, and it isn't. It honestly plays very differently to 40K, and I welcome the change.

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    2. From what my group have played its very hard to see the difference.more firepower but less resilience,this was told to me by alan bligh from fw.but totally agree love the changes

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    3. +1

      30k is literally a supplement to 40k, says so on the back. Just like codices are supplements to 40k, says so on the back.

      Some are just more expansive than others

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    4. How exactly does it play different? Just because the marines are structured differently shouldn't mean the game plays different.

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    5. How exactly does it play different? Just because the marines are structured differently shouldn't mean the game plays different.

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  9. Stick to what you know: rumors. Shut your mouth (or fingers) about the "listening to the audience" garbage.

    Companies like Google, Apple, and Facebook STOPPED listening to their audience and have exploded, bigger than ever because of it. You don't make what every whiner screams about. You tell an audience what they want.

    No, other companies aren't making better stuff than GW. Better than Fantasy? Yup. Not the models though. But 40k has further distanced itself from the 2nd and 3rd best sellers on the market the last 18 months. That's by volume, not just margin. The only reason GW's financials looked down was solely because of Fantasy's epic crash.

    It was GW's decision to increase the release clip, thus making all these splash releases possible. Not the fans. They are the biggest and best at what they do for a reason. They will figure out the market. Correction - they will continue to define the market and what it needs.

    This new CEO seems to be on the right track.

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    1. Agreed and i am happy to carry on my purchases.this isnt a cheap hobby and is exactly the same as the other companies, look at escelation for example.now its core rule set

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    2. Its a common misconception from internet traffic that customers know best. If that where true we would never see any new or original ideas coming to market.
      Listening to a market is one thing, but understanding that market is not one in the same.

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    3. Edward Bernays put it best: Don't change your product to match the customer. Change the customer to match your product.

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    4. That's idiotic. Google, Facebook, and Apple aren't niche hobby products. They're something which everyone has a use for to one degree or another. Nevermind that, of those three, two are totally free while the third offers fairly cheap products. Saying you're comparing apples to oranges is being kind. You're comparing apples to aluminum sheeting.

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    5. Apple offers 'fairly cheap' products? Man, I want your job.

      Anyway, it's not comparing apples to oranges. When defining a market like Facebook and Google have, a company has to trust sources other than the 'unwashed masses': actual business sense. Sometimes that means shutting out customer opinion completely. Y'know what they do listen to? What the customer BUYS. If you don't want something, don't buy it, that speaks louder than whining on internet forums ever will.

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    6. Yeah, $500 iPad's are fairly cheap. And iPhone's aren't cheap, but a lot of people get into two-year contracts or other similar deals which make them a whole lot cheaper to acquire.

      And it is, because just about everyone has a use for using Google every day. Just about everyone has a use for Facebook everyday. And neither of those rely on people laying out hundreds of dollars and spending the time and effort of gluing things together, painting them, and then finding other people who also made the same effort. So yeah, it's totally absurd to compare a free-to-use search engine to a niche market like a miniature gaming company.

      And what sources does GW have to trust? They don't do market research. According to rumors, they were taken totally by surprise by the success of the AdMech units produced by Forge World. If they'd actually listened to the "unwashed masses", then they would've realized years ago that that's something people have been chomping at the bits for. So what can they really tell by sales? They have NO IDEA why something is selling badly. Is it because of the rules? Is it because people don't like the model? Is it because the price of the kit is too high? Who knows. They don't, because again, they don't do market research. They have ZERO sources on which to base their judgments on, and that's why their market share is shrinking in a growing market while their profit margins continue to slip away into nothingness.

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    7. By the way, I find it hilarious that in his glowing review of GW's perfect handling of the business, McDoogle writes...

      "The only reason GW's financials looked down was solely because of Fantasy's epic crash."

      ...but never once stops to consider that what he calls the "epic crash" of Warhammer Fantasy, once a big seller, may have been because of GW's epic bungling and incompetence with the line. Yeah, there's no causal relationship there whatsoever.

      BTW: GW's financials with regard to 40k weren't looking too hot, either.

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    8. people whom work for GW most likely get their research via reading the forums or here in their Down Time. if this is the case then they don't need to do research or find out what we want. rather they can filter out the BS and go we can make alot of money if we release X, we'll hold onto that for a year or so and release Y instead (in this case could release sisters, but released quins instead).

      however Man of La Mancha is right Google etc aren't niche hobbies. they don't have to listen to their customers but they do because it'll make them more money. those that don't listen are the leaders...pft... please. tell that to Google, Apple and Facebook (Google/Facebook relies on likes or searches and thus rely heavily on user/consumer info/feedback, and apple listens in a more appropriate setting.

      can't be more wrong with Google, FB etc not listening or understanding the market (unlike GW whom hide everything and get pirated regardless for their merit of staying silent)

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    9. remaining quiet look how well that turned out. it nearly has ended GW as a viable hobby. if not financially themselves but the consumer whom their shareholders rely on. so yeah it a round about way they are listening indirectly otherwise why do a virtual 180 and release info covertly that what the die hard basement dwellers (whom are loyalists through and through) have always wanted might be released soon™. if they release some of what has been mentioned recently then they have listened™ or it'd appear that way™

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    10. when GW was open to feedback = increased sales and exposure and positive community/consumer experience.

      when they closed that down = negative impact of their reputation with consumers and community = less sales overall.

      the proof is right there that GW might be listening again™

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    11. Yeah, that's the plus side. That (at least when it comes to 40k, not so much Fantasy) it does appear that they're finally listening to the fans. But really, what does it say about their financial acumen when it takes them twenty freaking years to realize "We could make money off an Adeptus Mechanicus army?!?" I could've told them that five minutes after looking at the black-and-white army list booklet in the 40k 2nd edition boxed set. How the hell does it take them so long to realize it, and only come to that realization when Forge World beats them to it?

      Come to think of it, a lot of the new releases lately are things I've been wanting for going on 20 years. Imperial Knights and other giants in 40k, Genestealer Cults, Harlequins, Adeptus Mechanicus, those are all things I've wanted since way back in 2nd edition and which are finally getting their day (I also wanted Primarch's, which are finally being delivered courtesy of Forge World. I'm just waiting on Guilliman and Sanguinius).

      Huh. I guess GW should've listened to the "unwashed masses" a little bit sooner. Who knows how many years they could've had Adeptus Mechanicus and all the rest bulking up their bottom line?

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    12. Facebook and Google didn't stop listening to their audience; they stopped talking to them. Their methods of obtaining market information are more reliable than asking the humans what they think they want.

      Posted using my Google account

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  10. Fantasy nearly crashed? this is a bad rumour gone to far, sorry but this is becoming like a bad joke. how much BS can you fit into one thread I mean after all the Sister's hullabaloo now 30k whats next another load of GW doing GoT rumours and what then Fifty Shade of Grey boxed game including all you need to play and plastic outfits realistic playing, I like a good rumour and enjoy this site but deary me... :/

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  11. He pretty much nails it.

    Lets hope GW employs some skilled community managers, because this is what you should do considering how inclusive, sharing heavy and demanding this kind of hobby is.

    I think Mark Wells killed GW in the end. On first sight he did a premium job polishing GWs appearance on the surface and numbers wise, but they didn't care for their roots and the fact that their size and success have been a long way coming and in the end were a consequence of an engaged and avid community.

    Fruits grow on trees not vice versa.

    State now is that the only fruit left is 40K and the tree is rotting away.

    I think if a company like Spartan games can sustain on games like Firestorm Armada alone it should be possible for GW to support f.e a Battlefleet Gothic niche system with their creative pipelines and distribution network and a still titanic community a rediversification could help them.

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  12. There's an old addage.. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make hin drink... but in sales, its not the job of making the horse drink its the job of making the horse THIRSTY!!

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    1. no. it's about making that horse think it is thirsty so it drinks. it is about making your product appeal to a particular market. that is what GW does. if it didn't make you think you were interested in something model or rules wise then you wouldn't drink and they wouldn't make money. since they do and you buy it certainly proves my point.

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    2. example: Mcdonalds has a group of sexy young people, by product association of youth or sex appeal the consumer see's the advertising while hungry, see's the above and associates said product with health and success. Mcdonalds makes money as do many other companies, they make you think their product is what you want and in a way once you buy their product you prove that marketing strategy viable. turn on your TV. you'll see i'm not wrong. (not that i care either way). if the horse is thirsty what is stopping it from drinking the competitor's water instead of your own? advertising and product association.

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  13. Replies
    1. Warhammer Fantasy Battle, an acronym for the Warhammer Fantasy line.

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  14. I wonder if it would be possible to field a 30k Interex army using existing 40k models as stand-ins? That's one faction I found very fascinating in the HH novels, but I doubt FW will ever get around to making models like that.

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    1. Well FW said NO Xenos in 30K, though one could raise a Interex Army with non GW/FW products I guess. the miniature market is pretty wide these days.

      Id love to see that done.

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  15. Hmm. 40k/30k starter? It's gotta be Space Wolves vs Thousand Sons. Sisters included as Sisters of Silence.

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