Todays rumor set comes at us discussing Traitor Guard, Chaos Legions, and Renegades. For awhile now we have been seeing rumors of a Legions codex, which seems to really be happening, and that Renegades will be seeing a white dwarf update this year with a codex sometime in the future.

Please remember that these are rumors and rumors can turn out to go either way. Take with a pinch of salt.

via StraightSilver
I don't have a huge amount to offer, as I say I tend not to disclose anything these days but I do recall something that Jervis Johnson said a while ago.

Apparently when Gav Thorpe wrote the last CSM Dex he was given very strict instructions on what he could and couldn't do. He was pretty much forced to streamline the Codex as the dev team thought the previous one was too complicated.

Gav really didn't have much say in the Dex, and wasn't happy with just how stripped down it was, but those were the wishes of the design department.

However Jervis said that as soon as the Dex was released they realised they had made a mistake, and started planning the new Dex almost immediately.

Suffice it to say this new Dex has been in planning for quite some time, and the idea was to reintegrate some of the elements from the Codex before last.

Jervis also said that the plan was to release the Legions book, but keep the current CSM Codex as a Renegades Codex.

This may be where the confusion of 2 books arises from, as far as I know the new Legions Dex will be in addition to the CSM one, not a replacement.

However that info is well over a year old now so once again, don't shoot the messenger.

I believe Jervis touched upon the point in one of his Standard Bearer articles, I will see if I can dig out which one, but it was ages ago. He then expanded on the article to somebody that I know, but as I say this was over a year ago now if memory serves.

In terms of the differences, the new Chaos Legions Codex is supposed to represent the Traitor Marines who fled to the Eye of Terror after the Heresy.

They are therfore Chaos Legionnaires rather than Chaos Marines, and are therefore different to the Marines who have since turned their backs on the Emperor and have gone renegade.

They are much older, and closer to their original Legions (World Eaters, Thousand Sons etc) and will have distinct rules to represent this.

In terms of Traitor Guard apparently the idea for a full Traitor Guard Codex was put forward but was rejected.

Rumours say that Traitor Guard will be available as a unit choice in the new Legions Codex (by taking Alpha Legion) but won't be available as a full army.

AFAIK the only current plans are for the Legions Codex, nothing else. The current CSM Codex will remain to represent Traitor Marines rather than Legionnaires.

CSM Codex stays viable for Renegade Marines.

Legions Codex will come to cover the older Legions like Death Guard and Thousand Sons INA DDITION to the old CSM Codex.

Traitor Guard idea considered but abandonned, now only a unit for Alpha Guard in Legions Codex.

via theDarkGeneral
Either way, time will tell which of us were correct, but most really has to do with SilverStraight posted, which is "things change" within the process of GW books/codices. Nice to see he also confirmed one of my earlier rumors, with his own "rumor" that it's already been mentioned that the current Chaos Codex will be referred to as "Chaos Renegades" with a White Dwarf update. As for the NEW Chaos Codex, a simple "Chaos: Legions" name should suffice.

Some of my previous info may actually be Apocalypse Formations stuff, that will be released around the same time as the new Codex. Maybe the Brazen Knights/Brass Knights/Blood Knights?


  1. I'll believe it when I see it. The whole "the 4th ed book is really just renegades, there's a legions book coming soon!" has been going the rounds ever since the 4th ed book came out. You know, recent renegades, like Abaddon, Kharn, Lucius, Typhus and Ahriman!

    I believe that a replacement CSM is in the pipeline, but I don't believe many of the rumors flying around about it, and I really don't buy that the 4th ed book will be errata'd to a renegades book.

    A lot of these new rumors sound like someone has just been digging up forum threads from 2009 and said "hey, that'd be cool."

    We'll see, but I'll be surprised if these sorts of things really pan out as rumored.

  2. I think they should do 3 chaos books.

    Traitor Marines: These would be depicting marines that have gone rouge but not to specific Chaos Gods. So more Heresy style units with old style Contemptor dreads and maybe slaves and what not. Options for Iron Warriors seige marines and other non-demon traitor marine army tpes.

    Chaos Marines: These would be Deathguard and World Eaters and other chapters with lots of chaosy demon stuff. Specific marks and demons from each god. Princes, Oblitorators and defilers, Possessed, ect.

    Chaos Renegades: These would be cultists, traitor guard, rouge psykers and all things demonic. This would replace the demon book and make it more of a cultists summoning demons type book. With options for marks and armies dedicated to specific gods. Mutants and Plague Zombies, ect.

  3. We can only expect 2, and one will be a WD one for at least 1-2 years

  4. but they SHOULD do 3.

  5. One thing that always upsets me with Chaos Space Marines is they aren't Space Marines. They are some sort of handicapped marines. Somehow they immediately lose all their weapons when they go to chaos. Would love to see some lascannons on the heavy weapon squads. Or maybe the warp is so powerful it changes lascannons into autocannons /sigh.

  6. They have lascannons its just that they are 50pts

  7. My 2 bits is that there should be Chaos Marines, Chaos Daemons, and maybe Traitor Guard. Just my wishlisting.

  8. Codex Chaos Legions (non-god traitor legions)
    Codex World Eaters
    Codex Death Guard
    Codex Thousand Sons
    Codex Emperor's Children
    Codex Chaos Space Marines
    Codex Chaos Militia (guard)
    Codex Lost and the Damned
    Codex Undivided (includes minor gods and armies)
    Codex Khorne
    Codex Nurgle
    Codex Tzeentch
    Codex Slaanesh

    Have I gone mad? No. Just saying it could be worse.......
    .....unless you want all those books.

  9. Yikes!

    I just noticed! 13 codices!

    13! 2012! The end is nigh!



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