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Escalation and Stronghold Assault BattleReport


Last night there was a straight out of the books Escalation and Stronghold Assault game. My opponent was facing me down to with dual Mauler Fiends, Heldrakes and a Khorne Lord of Skulls, while I fielded the dreaded Hell Hammer with an Macro-Cannon Aquila Strongpoint and Void Shield Generators.


Of course how did we fit all this craziness into a game?, we were playing 2500pts. So here is a brief of the armies present.

















Imperial Guard with Dark Angel Allies 2,500pts
 Imperial Guard
Company Command  with Lascannon x2
Veteran Squad x2
Veteran Squad with 3 Meltas x2
Vendetta x2
Basilisk x2
Hell Hammer Super Heavy

Guardians of the Covenant (Dark Angels)
Librarian with Powerfield Generator
Tactical Marine Squad (5)

Macro-Cannon Aquila Strongpoint with 4 Embedded Heavy Bolters and Void Shield
Void Shield Generator with 1 additional Void Shield Generator

Chaos Space Marines. 2500pts

Chaos Space Marines
Warpsmith x2
Chaos Cultists (10) with Autoguns and Heavy stubber x3
Chaos Space Marine Squad (5) with Melta gun, Combi-melta, and Rhino x2
Havoc Squad (5) with Lascannons
Havoc Squad (5) with Autocannons
Mauler Fiend x2
Khorne Lord of Skulls 


The Mission was Crusade with 5 objectives rolled, and Player Placement of Terrain used. We had rolled 3 pieces of terrain for all 6 board sections....... That was crazy. The terrain was crowded with minimal avenues something like a Hell Hammer to drive through.

Round 1, All Hell Breaks Lose
Imperial Guard had the first round, and of course Chaos Space Marines failed to seize. The opening round was about to be game defining and a little lucky. The first shots came from the Hell Hammer. Since it was night fight, I was happy the Hell Hammer came with Spotlights. I unloaded lascannon sponsons, and the Hell Hammer Gun into the Lord of Skulls, managing 2 Hull Points of damage, meanwhile Heavy Bolters and Heavy Stubbers poured fire into havoc squads.

The following shots were direct hits from the Macro Cannon. Two D hits directly on the Lord of Skulls. I rolled my 2+ and for my d3 roll came up with 2 6's. The Lord of Skulls exploded spectacularly. Misc other fire failed to kill much, but this was game defining. It should be noted that the Hell Hammer was well protected with a Librarian with Prescience and a Power field Generator behind the huge tank. (Later 2 Heldrakes would ruin this combo).

















Bottom of Round 1. Chaos Attempts to gain some ground. 
The Two Mauler Fiends now devoid of their Lord of War, charge in, and pull off an Assault upon one of the Void Shield Generators. In the future place these behind the and to the side of the Aquila Strongpoint. The shield generator was quickly destroyed. Also of note, all the void shields were taken down by Havoc fire, but no real damage was done to anything.


 Round 2. Imperial Guard Takes Command of the Field
This was to be a dominating top of two. With the narrow paths of terrain, I flew two Vendettas in from reserves, one to completely block the path of a Mauler Fiend so that I did not have to deal with it, and the other to take on the rhinos with Warpsmiths/ CSMs in them. With that, both rhinos were destroyed, and when the Hell Hammer unleashed, one rhinos occupants were completely wiped out. The Macro Cannon completely obliterated one of the Maulerfiends.

















Bottom of Round 2. Chaos Space Marines Get Revenge
This came completely unexpected as the both Helldrakes came in, and one using vector strike was completely took down the blocking Vendetta. This was big trouble for the Imperial Guard, as now the Mauler Fiend moved 12 forward and into assault range of the Hell Hammer. Both Heldrakes used their baleflamers to hose down the Guardians of the Covenant Space Marines. All but the Librarian perished under the flame.

The Librarian surviving is what saved the Hell Hammers existence, as its power field generator saved it from the wrath of the Mauler Fiend. 5 Hull points in total were done as the Mauler Fiend used its daemon forge to tear into it.

One lone guardsmen with a melta gun survived the burning crash of the vendetta, all others on board were lost. The other Vendetta took damage as well, shaken with a lost lascannon. It would fly off the board during its next movement.


















Round 3. Ground Threats Annihilated 
The Imperial Guard fought back with a vengeance. Having thought the will of the Chaos Marines were done, the end of round two proved they were not to be taken lightly.

The Hell Hammer backed up in its tracks and turned on the Warlord Warpsmith with its Hell Hammer. Its Lascannons under the influence of the Librarian downed the far Heldrake, and did some damage to the Chaos Warlords body guard. All the Chaos Marines were killed, leaving the Warpsmith alone in the center of the field.

The Aquila Strong Point turned its guns on the remaining Mauler Fiend, and laid it to waste.


 Bottom of Round 3. Broken Will. 
The Guardians of the Covenant Librarian would fall to the Soul Blazing tokens from the dragons Baleflame.

With not much else around. the Heldrake tore up some guardsmen as it went to hover mode to stay on the field for a better flame attack. Meanwhile the void shields had regenerated and remaining autocannon fire and lascannon fire was unable to dent much.

The Warpsmith in a final strike, cursed the Hell Hammer, defiling it, and making the use of its weapons next round dangerous to use.

















Round 4. Imperial Guard Seal the Victory
It was now that the Imperial Guard sealed the deal. Reserves brought in the last barely running Vendetta still full of troops. Two lascannons shot up remaining Havocs with Lascannons, Basilisks laid down barrages upon cultists, and the Macro-Cannon unleashed on a now hovering Heldrake. Alas the Chaos Marine Warlord, fell to the weight of a Hell Hammer Cannon, and cultists began to die.

With a clear victory in hand, and not much else to do, we called the game.


Game Two.
Game Two would be much much closer, and hinged on a single failed assault roll for the Khorne Lord of Skulls. Two failed rolls in fact, when a simple 6 was needed to reach the Aquila Strongpoint. The last game was very close, and most everything died on both sides of the table. The Hell Hammer was destroyed by Massed Melta fire, Vector Strikes and more.

Conclusions
Overall Dark Angels as an allied force to Imperial Guard is always a strong choice. Add in a Lord of War, and if they survive can be game altering. The Aquila strong point was a tough cookie. In the second game, it was hit hard and luckily survived a Mauler Fiend attack. (complete luck on my part that it survived).

Fielding both a Lord of War and big Fortifications costs a lot of points. This is not something I would suggest doing in a competitive scenario, as its nowhere near efficient. It was a lot of fun though, and I know that when the Chaos Space Marines took down my Hell Hammer in the second game, he felt a great sense of vindication.

We had Massive Fortifications, Void Shields, Two Lords of War on the Field, with double Focs, and lots of fun craziness. That Macro Cannon was tough, able to fire a Primary 2 D-Weapon and was devastating to whatever it fired at. (although in two rounds of game two it killed nothing except a single cultist).


Post a Comment

92 Comments

  1. Your Void Shield Generators are not FOC legal. The option for "extra Void Shields" just adds extra shields to the same generator. To get multiple generators you need to take the Void Relay Network.

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    1. double Foc with two primary detachments.

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    2. ^ Likes this ^

      Seems like a fantastic game!!

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    3. Still not legal unless you take the void network which requires at least one set of relay pipes at 40 pts.

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    4. Belial is right. If you read the stronghold entry, u but the GENERATOR, and can purchase 2 additional SHIELDS for 25pts each. U still only get 1 generator unless u take the relay which requires at least one set of pipes too.

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    5. Belial is right. If you read the stronghold entry, u but the GENERATOR, and can purchase 2 additional SHIELDS for 25pts each. U still only get 1 generator unless u take the relay which requires at least one set of pipes too.

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    6. Yes you have filled 3 fortification slots now, you're only allowed to fill 2.

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  2. How did the maulerfiend get past the vendetta in the same turn if vector strikes happen @ the end of the movement phase?
    looks like fun games though, thx for the report.

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    1. Good question. May have been done incorrectly or he had enough assault range. it was late, and I dont recall.

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    2. Also pretty sure fliers don't block movement.

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    3. They do, its in the brb FAQ. unless you can move completely underneath and end 1+" away. details though. seems escalation and strhold work alot better at 2500+ or so

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    4. Enemy flyers always block movement. You can, however, move beneath your own flyers as long as you don't end your move On top of the base.

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    5. @Peter: I don't think they block movement, but the enemy has to stay 1" away from the base. But they can get past it no, if they can move far enough.

      Overall, it was completely obvious from the start that the Guard would win.

      I think the Maulerfiends and Autocannon havocs could have maybe been replaced with something better. Perhaps Daemon allies. Also the Khorne-mobile SH is a little too easy for ranged D-weapons because it has to be so close to shoot the enemy SH.

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    6. When they say that models may move underneath a flyer, they mean the wings and other stuff hovering over the battlefield, not the base. You need to read both of the paragraphs in that section to get the full story.

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    7. @Adam:
      So a constantly airborne flyer can move over any models bases, but no-one can walk under it?

      That doesn't really make sense, see the flyer is really flying even though its the other player's turn.

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  3. look at that... the guy who went first and fired his D weapons won. that NEVER happens....

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    1. Absolutely shocking. NOBODY could have possibly seen that coming... right?

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    2. The only one who had ranged d weapons win all 3 games & CSM still suck balls. Is hate to be a chaos player who doesn't use khorne but has to field that ugly terrible model.

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    3. An aquila, hellhammer, AND voidshields is quite a a bit overkill. The csm player didn't stand a chance no matter who won initiative. Now had he a chaos warhound titan, it would have been a much more even match. Despite the overpower of super heavies, GW went way to far with the aquila. Lascannons can only glance it on a 6. Your only hope of hurting it is to get multiple meltas in 2d6 range and even then you will only destroy it on a 5+. Add to that you have to collapse its void shield first as well. And the icing on the cake is the macro cannon is an emplaced weapon that uses the bs skill of whoever you have firing it. Everyone is worried about revanent titans when the aquila is a far more game breaking unit. I know all the fan boys will be jumping down my throat but, given what GW has done in the past; I fully expect escalation and stronghold to get heavily hit with the nerf bat once the holiday sale season is over. Notice there has not been an faq on those books yet.

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    4. the problem with your analysis is that its incorrect. The second game Chaos was winning all the way until the 4th round. The only reason CSM lost the second game, was because of a failed 6" assault, which failed even with his fleet special ability. His results were a 1+2 and a 3+2. Even then he only lost by one point

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    5. Im am constantly amazed by how hard you try to defend something that is clearly broken Natfka. Turn 1 win based on D-Weapons. It happens too often.

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    6. I am constantly amazed by how hard people try to piss on something that is clearly fun. The T1 one 'win' was from a few lucky rolls, just as that can be a deciding factor in a non-Escalation/Stronghold game; it's no different at all. If you don't have anything good to say, don't type. If you don't want to play Escalation/Stronghold then don't play it. It's a sad case of a person that would take a dump on someone's blog who is enjoying it, and took the time to type out a battle report with photo's.

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    7. Because *you* say it is fun... but many don't think turn 1 wins are 'fun'. And it isn't being presented as a 'fun way to play', it is being presented as the 'new normal' and that it is a better way to play. These battle reports are being presented to try and show how these SH/GC are a good part of the game, and that they are somehow balanced.
      I don't care about tourney play, but I *do* want to be able to walk into my LGS and get a relatively balanced game without a ton of negotiation beforehand. A game way out of balance, and a game consistently over by turn 3, and a game where you are picking up models faster than playing 'jacks'.... isn't 'fun', it is 'silly'.

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    8. I can't begin to describe the number of times my land raider redeemer (max weapon range 24") has immobolized itself on a bush, or brick, or some branch on the battlefield. Makes it incredibly easy when my transport is out of the game without the opponent even trying; guess how many times I told people I wouldn't play because my land raider was useless after turn one... yep, zero. Know why? Because it's a game. Stuff happens. If a sternguard squad deep strikes in and pops the stronghold with melta does that mean that that squad is a T1 auto win and should be disallowed? No... Weird. Well what about if someone puppet masters their opponents Titan and kills all of their stuff? No more puppet master either right? I suppose we should also remove the mind in the machine necron lord as well? Let's basically get rid of all ranges weapons and monstrous creatures (smash, what a joke) and we can just run around pretending we are playing the children of the 41st millennium and giggle as they shoot each other with water guns and silly string.

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    9. there's no reason chaos can't take an aquila strongpoint too ... just put all kinds of dead guys and skulls on it

      I love the updates & think it makes the game much more interesting.

      Rift is right, you could have a bad turn of luck in old rules just as well, if you dumped all your points into a land raider and it blew

      Note that drop pods are probably the best non-D defense against the big D. So you need meltas? drop pod. So you need to kill the armor 12 titan? drop pod.

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    10. I can't agree and like this cement enough.

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    11. And by that I meant coredump's comment..

      As for the drop pod melta being a solution to SHs and fortifications...yah no. I won't redo the math here but I didnitnonce before and for like 8 ds sternguard with combo meltas landing w/in 6" of a revenant Titan only would get like an average of 1.222 or something like that pens and that was before factoring in the holo field rolls. The same would the result of trying to take out a warehouse with void shields or hitting front/side of a babe blade. So no, ds melta squads are not the solution

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    12. At just over 500 pts, you are left with plenty of points to buy tank traps and troop bubble wrap to ensure not even a guided drop pod can land close enough to your aquila to get a single melta off in range. What is most irritating, is a good amount of people who cried and raged over serpent spam, flying circus, grimoire invuls, are the same people raging against anyone who dares to say a negative thing about escalation. I don't see how a giant invincible fortress that lobs 2 D strength large blasts to any inch of the board a turn, is somehow any more fun than greater daemons with 2+ invuls with rerolls of 1. I could run an aquila myself, true enough. I could spend a little extra on tank traps and bubble wrap that buildind with cultists. The rest of the points I could put into noise marines with blastmasters and obliterators to sit safe and sound within the bunkers and battlements, and still probably have enough points for a heldrake or two. I could, but playing a "strategy" game on god mode isn't my idea of fun.

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    14. Roland, a revenant titan is close to 1000pts ... at that rate you can fit more than one deep striking squad into a list to counter it

      I don't know how you're doing your math...
      8 melta marines land OUTSIDE 6in
      2/3 chance hit = 5.28 hits
      1/2 chance holo negates (if moved) = 2.64
      4+ glance = 1.32 hp's down
      that's OUTSIDE 6in bubble

      8 melta marines land INSIDE 6in
      2/3 chance hit = 5.28 hits
      1/2 chance holo negates (if moved) = 2.64
      4+ glance with 2d6 pen (36 possible outcomes of which only 3 are not 4+ which means 33/36% glance) = 2.42 hp's down

      however, why would you take 8 marines in this circumstance? And meltas are good against stationary units or tanks, but the revenant is a walker and a fast one + drop pods can vary, so plasma is i'd prefer plasma -> you're guaranteed 2 shots if you can get within 12in

      10x sternguard with 10x combi-plas + drop pod = ~255pts
      10x DA vets with 10x combi-plas + drop pod = ~225pts

      12"in bubble = 20 shots
      2/3 chance hit = 13.2 hits
      4+ holo field = 6.6 hits
      5+ glance = 2.178 glances

      that's nearly 3 hp's (1 victory point) for around 250pts + you've forced your opponent to move, otherwise you can krak grenade him

      take 2 or 3 of those, a devastator squad, some razorbacks with lasc and / or a flyer and you can all but guarantee you'll kill the titan by turn 3

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    15. and that's not even factoring in the extra d3 hull points from explodes results

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    17. That is where you are wrong. The rules in stronghold are updates to standard 40k with one exception. It specifically states the sections with updated building damage tables is OPTIONAL and not standard. It would be great and far more balanced had those additions been standard as well.

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    18. i was wrong anyway, which is why i deleted. you only roll on that chart on a pen.

      all it does it make it so that a 0 result, which you would only get against a massive fortification (aquila sp), still reduces armor by 1

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    19. Best way to deal with an aquilla is to get troops with grenades near it. kill the occupiers and nick it for your own side.....

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    20. Actually to get the melta benefit and get a own, it's 24/36 chances so 2/3 of a chance to get a pen, and 1/6 chance for a glance so that 2.64 hits gets knocked down even lower for pens, to the tune of 1.76 pens. Roll in the damage chart and that gets resulted into 1.17 d3+3 damage. Assuming ideal rolls you do 6 HP damage on that Titan and it laughs and murder stomps more of the enemy army next turn. But again this is all assuming best case scenario and what are the odds the Titan won't have cover/bubble wrap (or any SH for that matter) AND that ALL your DS melta lands witho. 6"?

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    21. Roland,
      we don't care about pens unless the give us a 6 on the damage chart. a glance will give us a hp. so that's why i kept it simple.

      anything 4 or greater on pen will give you a glance. the only rolls that won't give you that are 1and1, 2and1, 1and2 = 3/36

      or, 33/36 chance to glance OR pen out of whatever made it through the holo field

      with just glances you're statistically going to get 2.42 hull points if you land within 6

      i dare say it's impossible to get a titan in "cover" unless you put it behind a skyscraper. Remember cover is determined by % of the vehicle covered. void shields are another matter, but that's why you want to use some drop pods/deep strike and flyers

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    22. furthermore, if a squad like that does 3hp damage (nevermind 6) and they get murder stomped. i'm fine with that, they've done their duty ....there's only 6hp left

      that's when your 2nd drop pod squad, devastators & flyers come in

      even better than drop pod lists is probably spamming flyers with lasc

      either way, there's ways to beat it

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    23. we're talking about a 200-250pt unit killing 1/3 of a 900pt unit

      they've more than earned their points back even if they only get 1 round of shooting

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  4. Turn 1 win. Lol

    Its possible to take the Macro-cannon and a reaver, right?
    So 6 D-shoots.
    why Not have fun with it at a tournament? Lol!

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    1. just about as fun as a rock paper scissors tournament. or.. maybe just move the tournament to a bar. you have two drinks. you roll for first turn, then you roll to seize, whoever Doesn't go first LOSES and has to drink.

      Repeat 6 times and you have a two day tournament in the bag.

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    2. a rock paper scissors tournament has much more options! :)

      40k will be much more a coinflip tournament. 50-50chance every game.

      GW must have had some reason to go down this path...???

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    3. Hey if you don't want to play escalation or stronghold assault, don't.
      While your at it don't go trolling through web sited to be disparaging to the people that actually do some play testing and are decent enough to share real outcomes with their reader... DICK.

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    4. You can have the Reaver shoot 8 S:D shots which is a bit over-kill

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    5. Heh. i'm only pointing out that the outcome is predictable. i'm not calling names, who's the troll here?

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    6. Omg... What about when the Tri-tide squad backed up by marker lights just removes all my cover from my aegis lines and they erase my entire army turn one. Jeez, guess we should probably just consider that game over if tau gets first turn too eh?

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    7. 40k is exactly right

      cheese lists don't work against D-weapons, hate to dissapoint

      this actually makes the game a little more fair in some respects

      what does work? spreading your points out. fast units. deep strike units. outflank units. and other D-weapons

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    8. people are still getting used to strategy on this. Was the Lord of Skulls the best choice when facing 2 ranged D-weapons? Probably not. Although in game 2 he still came within 6" of mauling the fortress apparently. The lord of skulls is one of the weaker (for points cost) lords of war IMO.

      What would have been a better strategy given this scenario would have been 8 rhinos / razorbacks loaded full of Marines with meltas and meltabombs. No way 2 D weapons can kill all that in 1 or even 2 turns. All it takes is a few getting close and the game is turned around.

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    9. (the 8 rhinos & marines in places of the lord of skulls + the rest of the army)

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    10. Also with the 8 rhinos and squads he could have a solid chance of stealing the Aquilla.

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  5. I am curious why the player with the Skulldozer didn't just reserve it. I get that he was probably aware that he wasn't hiding from the macro cannon, but that combined with the rest of the IG army the likely hood of it exploding turn one was very high.

    I would like to know more about the second game if it was that close

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    1. He could have siezed.

      Going reserve just makes it so all youre other stuff gets killed instead for 2 turns. Then you also get killed after you come in and shoot a few things.
      You only change the order in wich stuff dies.

      If you could hold 100% in reserv that would be something els. But not like this. Also the skull Lord is only D-weapon in cc. So Bad if you want to close in quick.

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    2. In the second game he reserved, and only lost the game by failing a 6" assault roll. If he had made it I was about to be wiped off the board.

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  6. "The Lord of Skulls exploded spectacularly."
    Not surprising since it deployed directly in front of a macro cannon,
    but that line made me wonder what an unpainted explosion would look like... lol.
    Yeah, I gottalotta painting to do too...

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  7. Hey Natfka, I know you were play testing and all, but did you really need to use BOTH a Super Heavy and the Aquila Strong Point w/Void Shields? Per someone else that responded... "that is quite a bit overkill". One or the other seems fair to me, but both is just, well, lame. I am surprised your friend even wanted to try playing against that.

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    1. once again, the second game I was getting my clock cleaned quickly by the CSM, after he reserved his maulers and LoW. I was lucky to barely win it. So no it was not as lopsided as you are thinking or however it looks on paper.

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    3. Yeah, but Chaos still suffered defeats every game. Why? Because their Super Heavy, while costing 888 points, didn't have the ranged D Weapon which the 535 point Macro-Cannon Aquila Strongpoint had. It had bad luck, yes, but could it have possibly gotten close enough to the Aquila Strongpoint to charge unless the Aquila also had some bad luck with its attacks? Reserves or no, there's no way it could've survived long enough to get within charge range without either extreme bad luck on the part of the Guard player, in which case the luck evened out (Either that or the Guard player purposefully ignored shooting at it a turn or two to make it more of a game).

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    4. Probably because it sounded like fun? The chaos player came really close in game 2 so it obviously wasn't an unwinnable situation. I personally have had a great deal of fun playing a weak list against a much stronger list even when I don't win. Playing the underdog can be fun and every success feels like a victory. 40k is about narrative gameplay, not balanced competitive play. Knowing you are likely going to lose but trying to hurt your enemy as badly as you can before you die is very cinematic and actual quite realistic since perfectly matched forces almost never meet on the battlefield.

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    5. Also, i really think the Escalation and Stronghold assault are meant for 2000 pt games. Who knows, maybe that 500 points was the deciding factor. :D

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  8. Why are people telling Nat how to play the game?

    Overkill this, all that shit is irrelevant if yourself and your mate are having fun.

    why not take what the rules allow you to take!!!

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  9. My first experience of Escalation was quite similar to the way this first game went. My Shadowsword dominated the game killing a Stompa on turn 1 (with some help from a Manticore and some Basilisks), gunning down many boyz and splattering Ghazghkull with a Volcano Cannon to the face. And that was with a single D weapon.

    Despite agreeing to resurrect the Stompa on 1 hull point (to let my opponent at least get to play with it) the Orks had no chance. Ultimately we didn't have much fun. Although this may be due to the Orks' inability to deal with AV14 more than any issues with Escalation in general.

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    1. Building my stompa list and defiantly need a void shield Generator to help it survive, if not a couple of them. Throw in a big mek with a CFF and burnas with 3 meks and I recon much better survival odds.

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  10. Had my 3rd game of escalation today at GW. Fellblade vs. shadowsword. Sure D gun did 4 hull points to my fellblade, no biggie. My melta tactical squads x2 took out the shadowsword in 1 turn. 2 games now against a revenant, first game turn 2 it died to my tactcial squads. Second game it went down turn 4 to same tactical squads (bad deepstrike rolls). Point being sure D weapons are mean SoB's but they arent the end of the world. I have yet to modify my list with the exception of the fellblade to go up against super heavies. Fellblade doesnt even target their super heavies.

    3 games now with escalation and D weapons are mean but they dont ruin or autowin the game for you

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    1. It is obvious that Drop Pod melta is just about the only decent 'normal 40K' way to deal with SH/GC. So it is good you were one of the few people still running with lots of melta.
      OTOH, still not sure how you are killing a revenant in one turn. You would need like 16 melta shots to kill the titan, how are you doing that with just 2 tactical squads? (Or are you just getting really lucky?)
      And why hasn't your opponents caught on and actually done something to defend against this...??

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    2. dude the revenant has 9 hull points. that means 9 guys or less could kill it if he fails his holo field saves. and that's at armor 12 - so plasma or meltas can hurt

      sure not everybody has drop pods. But everybody does have flyers - and the xenos have some of the best. Don't forget blast templates can't shoot at flyers!

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    3. I wrote a long reply to this math included but my phone died. Anyway net result was, given perfect conditions (no cover for SH, no bubble wrap, landing within 6") 10 podding sternguard with melta would get 3 pens and of those, 2 would cause d3+3 damage so given ideal rolls I. That table they COULD in 1 turn drop a SH with 12 HPs

      But this is given perfect conditions and the last bit involved perfect damage chart rolls (ie rolling two 3s on a d3). Point being while podding meltas is feasible, it requires a Certain conditions to be met to be effective. Seriously how often has anylne seen their most valuable unit not bubble wrapped or in cover nowadays?

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    4. well the point is marines in a drop pod are fairly cheap compared to super heavy - and if you were planning for this on a game ahead of time you wouldn't take just 1 drop pod

      remember +1vp for every 3hps also

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    5. 1) i run 2melta squads, 1 plasma, 1 grav squad in drop pod standard for 2k games. 2) no first turn kills, killed on turn two 3) revenant took a turn of fire from lascannon devastator squads, 4) first game had dual explosion results first turn, finished off second turn. 5) second game it was combined effort of my army to take it down, had to even charge in cc with melta bomb to finish it. 6) 1st game he tried his damnedness to take out my superheavy and hoped to stomp my guys...didnt move! 2nd game he moved but thats why i have 4 drop pod tactical squad and 1 drop pod basic dread.

      Point is, it made me totally rethink target priority but its not impossible. He did scatter bad though, I still lost stuff, including hq, combat squads, etc. i didnt walkaway scott free.

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    6. I get it, I lucked out. But that titan is a huge point sink and liability. 900pts is a huge loss of points in a standard game. Hell i was not happy fielding a super heavy, sure it blew stuff up but so would have 4 units i swapped out for it! I love fielding the fellblade but damn 540 pts is a lot to eat up for a marine player. Im not scared of D weapons right now, its the gargantuan creatures with 16 str 10 shots that bother me, and their T9 and some random tyrant buffing them with biomancy....thats where my problem with escalan lays lol

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    10. Roland, here's the math ( i had to check it a couple times if you noticed the deletes :D )

      10 melta marines land OUTSIDE 6in
      2/3 chance hit = 6.6 hits
      1/2 chance holo negates (if moved) = 3.3
      4+ glance = 1.65 hp's down
      that's OUTSIDE 6in bubble & not factoring in the extra D3 hps if you pen & roll and explodes

      10 melta marines land INSIDE 6in
      2/3 chance hit = 6.6 hits
      1/2 chance holo negates (if moved) = 3.3
      4+ glance with 2d6 pen (36 possible outcomes of which only 3 are not 4+ which means 33/36 glance) = 3.025 glances or better

      of those glances there's a 83% chance you will pen (30/36) = 2.52 of those will be pens, of which 50% will be explodes (ap1) = 1.26 of the 2.52 will be explodes = *****50% chance you will get at least 1 extra d3 hp's down*****

      so if you land within 6" in with 10 meltas you're looking at between 3-6 hull points down statistically ... that's 1/3 - 2/3 his full hp's with 1 ~250pt squad!

      here's the math with plasma

      10x sternguard with 10x combi-plas + drop pod = ~255pts
      10x DA vets with 10x combi-plas + drop pod = ~225pts

      12"in bubble = 20 shots
      2/3 chance hit = 13.2 hits
      4+ holo field = 6.6 hits
      5+ glance = 2.178 glances


      it's not that you have to go all drop pod spam, like Father Gabe said. it's just that you use a few of these to compliment the rest of your army. ... just make sure you have something else to finish off those last 5-3hps.

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    11. Like lascannon devastator squad :) let me point out that those. Are tactical squads combi melta, multimelta, meltagun. So when i say i lucked out, i lucked out. Sad or great thing about this game is dice. They favored me these few games, next set of 3 games testing will possibly go differently. I hope not so i can be king of escalation in dallas and houston without changing my list or using D weapons :)

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    12. Your math is off a bit J-man. You have a 30/36 chance to DO DAMAGE, ie both pen and glance. It's actually 24/36 for pen, 6/36 for glance. I did the math a bunch of times but as I said my phone crapped out on my initial post and instead of redoing it all I just summarized

      Also I just realized I did all my math today vs av 14. When I did the math I I initially a few days ago it was vs the revenants av 12


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    14. you're right it is off a bit. And yes, im talking about av12 revenant not av14 reaver :)
      (forgeworld reavers are a bit different i think maybe only 2500pt+ games would work...i think that's why they didn't include in book)

      however my argument is intact. the difference is 1.1 of the 2.2 pens will be explodes results (instead of 1.26 of 2.52)

      we're still rounding to a 50% chance of getting an explodes results plus at least another 1-2 glances

      those are acceptable odds for a strategy

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    15. Ally with GKs, buy 2-5man Strike squads. Warp Quake. Your whole Drop-Pod Melta tactic of ultimate domination is invalidated.

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    16. Well Carlos sure if you want to tailor a list to counter mine. I dont tailor my list to counter someones, i play mine in its on virtue, tactics, etc. tailoring a list to counter someone smacks of no faith in your army or ability. Yes i did bring a fellblade but that wasnt used against the revenant at all. Not to worried about people tailoring against me, one trick pony shows like that means i have holes to exploit.

      I design around a more sound philosoph. Of course if you didnt mean you are bringing an anti drop pod ally for that sole purpose then i will partially apologize for directing comment towards you. Please not it is a counter comment and not a rage filled slam :)

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    17. Good God I hate auto correct. Looks like my 3 year old kid (which i have never had) typed it, apologize for that.

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  11. The real problem is that GW is louzy.

    They finaly give Deamon Engines invul saves, and then they make weapons that ignores Invul saves...

    An Invulnerable save should stay like it, Invulnerable, its in the name INVULNERABLE...

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    1. you think an iron halo type save is going to do anything against a weapon that will destroy an entire city block?

      People should read the tactica posts Natfka has re-posted. Very informative. Bottom line: elite & heavy spam lists don't work against D weapons, get over it.

      Or, if you still want to run that kind of list, you have to be able to make them pay if he wrecks your Deamon Engines turn 1. Some ideas - your own macro cannon (can't buy one? put a big gun on a big building model) - flyers on turn 2

      i don't play chaos so i can't get too specific. But what i'm saying is people need to understand that the overall strategy (broad scope) changes when playing against D weapons, before they get angry that their tactics (small scope) don't work any more

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    2. or flyers on turn 1, if you take a landing pad

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    3. With csm your greatest weapon against SH is small deepstriking terminator squads with combimeltas. Its only a 5 point upgrade for the combi weapons and well worth it. Whats more, is if you aren't facing a SH, you can instead send them after other enemy vehicles, which fits them nicely into any all comers list.

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  12. Sounds like a cool couple of games - thanks for the write up! I haven't played escalation yet but going up against 'D' in Apocalypse with a standard (no super heavy) army is no problem (albeit in Apoc you do have a lot more options around reserves / no force org / strategic assets so you can take lots of drop pod sternguard with melta guns!). Looking forward to giving Escalation & Stronghold a go.

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  13. Gary,

    thanks for sharing the batreps with us - i'm absolutely stoked about all the new Escalation/Stronghold toys, can't wait for the holidays to finally get into top gear and finish the Baneblade and Stompa still sitting on my workbench. We have played 2 games with all the new rules from the new books so far and, behold, the end of the world is not to be ssen. I think people seriously have to calm down and quit kindling flame wars without even having played with the new rules. TastyTaste at BloodOfKittens has written an excellent analysis of the new books and their repercussions and podcast #92 of the IndependentCharacters also sums it all up quite nicely.

    Keep up the good work, much appreciated!

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  15. great battle report - exciting writing style and very informative

    very excited to put together my macro cannon.

    I particularly like stronghold assault. There's a lot of little things in there people haven't been talking about that are very cool. For example, being able to attach tanglewire (dangerous terrain) to the area around any fortification - very fun for modeling and keeping those pesky outflankers at bay

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  16. Oops my bad Natfka. Good games, thanks for the report, i face the Lord of Skulls thingy next week, My Marines dont have any D weapons soooo, my be trouble lol. I like that you guys used both books for a game, way to showcase the product. Its got me thinking on how to fit in a firestorm redoubt and a fell blade without compromising my army to much.

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  17. High point games like these ones seem the most suited to include super heavies, to stimulate interaction and prevent a complete single unit show.

    Still, I think it's telling that even poor to mid range LoW and a gun emplacement have such a large impact even at this point level. 50 or so models on the table at 2500 for two non elite armies is too little for my liking, but at least both players had fun.

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