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1850 Revenant Battle Report


As always there are lots of games going on now to test out the Revenant Titans in standard 40k games. Yes, the Revenant Titan is a beast, and yes he can be ridiculously tough and take large chunks of your army.


After my report at 2500pts, (quite common point level here), another report with a Revenant was posted up on the Faeit 212 BlogExchange over at 40k War Zone at 1850 with no void shields on the table.

I will let you read his words there, but the Eldar Titan ripped apart his opponent the entire game, and shrugged off an amazing amount of damage while it was sitting on a landing pad near his Farseer. Re-rollable 4+ invul saves were ridiculously hard to beat down. How was the battle though, and were the opponents opposite the Revenant able to bring on the fight?

http://40kwarzone.blogspot.com/2013/12/revenant-titan-batrep.html

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62 Comments

  1. yup, and even without the skyshield all he needed to do was reserve the titan and bring it on after the farsight bomb dropped to prevent it killing the titan

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    1. Furthermore a few different choices on his part, or not losing the seize would probably have resulted into a win regardless of his opponent going for the win over the kill

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    2. Nobody wants to point out that this is a GROSS misuse of a rule. A titan sitting on a skyshield? The walls of the shield barely cover his toes. Again, competitive play is NOT the focus of the game. I think out of the 50 players I have played with, maybe 3 or 4 were die hard competitive.

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    3. I thought titans were immune to Psychic powers that did not have a strength value. Yes, even their own. No rerollable 4+'s anymore.

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    4. Oh yeah, and its a two-player game, Figure out your argument, is it that titans "balance the game" or that the game "balance doesn't matter because its not a competitive game"? stop running the logic in circles, anyone but a very vocal select few have pretty much agrees that the D-weapons are far too grossly over powered for regular 1500-2000 pt games of 40k.

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    5. I'm not saying they are 'not' overpowered, but I believe it balances nicely if you kill a 9 Hull Point Lord of War you get an extra 3 victory points that your opponent has no chance of getting. Keep in mind that there are few, if any, D weapons that can hit flyers... and also keep in mind that a D weapon is not likely to kill all of the crew in a destroyed vehicle.

      And I just picked up my rulebook and found out that they did remove the restriction from using powers without a strength value on Super Heavy Vehicles. That's dumb but I'll deal with it.

      But lets see how old EWG handles a guy who brings a Revenant and puts him in s Shy Shield Landing Pad.

      Dude with Revenant on Skyshield - Hey want to play?

      Me - Are you going to do that Revenant on a Skyshield Landing pad thing again?

      Dude with Rev on SSLP - Why not, its in the rules.

      Me - Go find someone else to play against your bogus rule exploit. The Eldar Revenent Titan does not fit 25% or more behind the shields offered by the Skyshield when it is in Shielded mode. You can talk to me all day about rules as written vs rules as intended but simply this - I am not playing with you if that is your plan.

      Dude with Rev on SSLP goes and finds someone else to humiliate with his highly unsportsmanlike gross representation of a ruleset.

      See, I don't go around doing *&^ army lists to show how amazing my rules as written interpretations are. This is why I like tournaments where the Sportmansship is rated as well as the theme of the Army. Is the theme of that Eldar player's army even imaginative as something the Eldar would do?

      Nope. 0 points for Theme, 0 points for finding a gross loophole.

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    6. It's not really a RAI vs. RAW debate, though. Models on a skyshield get a 4++, just like that.

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    7. It's not really a rule 'exploit' or loophole... it's very clear in the main rulebook (and stronghold assault) that models on it gain a 4++. It's as much an exploit as the shooting phase.

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    8. OK, yes, I just checked the rules. It is a 4++ Invulnerable Save vs shooting when the Pad is shielded. NP.

      Just thinking off the top of my head, here's a scenario: A unit of Plague Drones starts at the edge of my deployment zone. They are Jet Pack Cavalry, so move 12" then can't run (Slow and Purposeful, being Nurgle), but then get a 2D6" Assault move using their Jet Pack portion of their profile. Using the much vaunted "7 is the average of 2D6"" reality, they've got a decent chance of going 19" or more on my turn. Assuming they get into base contact with the Pad AND that the Revenant doesn't kill all of them in his turn, AND that there are none of my opponents other units in base contact with it, on my turn ~before rolls for reserves are made~ the Drones can (and will) Unfurl the shields, allowing whatever of my Daemon units that are Deep striking to land on the Pad ~without scattering~. That means I can place the Deep Striking unit(s) within 1" of the Revenant, which means if he tries to shoot at them in his turn there's a very good chance that the D Weapon template will scatter onto him, which is a Very Bad Thing for him. So, unless he moves off the Pad, whatever of mine Deep Struck onto the Pad in my previous turn is going to Assault it. Rear AV on the Rev is 10, so Beasts of Nurgle will glance it on a 6, and Plaguebearers' Plague Swords always glance on a 6, as do Plague Drones'. And if my Great Unclean One made it up there, well, it a MC that can Smash if it needs to. That's probably a lot of overkill, and the Rev will either have moved off in his turn, be locked in combat, or will be glanced to death, if not penetrated by the GUO.

      Sure, that's a lot of Ifs, but I've got so many things that can do that sort of thing in my Nurgle a Daemon army that it's a distinct ~possibility~.

      Yes, this is TheoryHammer, but so is a lot of what folks talk about in terms of how "invulnerable" a Revenant Titan is. This is just 1 "shoot from the hip" example of how one type of army could deal with it on a Skyshield Pad. The Rev's not going to be able to kill everything I move towards that Pad.

      Just sayin'. Lotsa stuff can happen in a game. In the meantime, it's ~still~ a lot of points to tie up in a single big model that ~can~ get assaulted easier than folks are thinking/saying. And it only has 1 Attack, if I remember correctly, so...

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    9. Main hole in your theory is if there are enemies on the sky shield the mode can't be changed. Since the titan is on it you cannot unfurl it. Thus you DS unit will scatter full.

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    10. Models on a skyshield may get a 4++, but the force field generated is a dome on top at best(fluff-wise), not a cone that shoots into the sky infinitely. So while it is RAW it is a gross exploitation.

      Another thing, D weapons are mathematically /inferior/ in damage output compared to the same cost in loyalist devastators with lascannons and plasma cannons. I.E. they will statistically do more damage in one turn against average targets. The lascannons against vehicles by a noticeable margin and plasma cannons by a large margin.

      All D weapons actually do is consolidate firepower and what they lack in actual damage output they make up for in coverage and the special rules of the unit they are attached to. So while a SHV/GC on the whole is not inferior to straight devastators, they are not over powered. Especially when they give out 1VP per 3 HP/W.

      It's things like a fortuned Revenant on a skyshield, screamerstars, serpent spam etc that abuse the game that ruin it for others. Not the actual statistics of D weapons.

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    11. Hunchkrot, got you. I understand the rules allow it. The rules also allowed Speed Freaks at one time. I played against them and tied at best. Then one of the WAAC players saw this and built his own Speed Freaks army to mimic the one the casual player built. I played him once and lost bad, then chose not to play that list anymore. I lost to Speed Freaks enough - probably about 7 times total with the best being result ever being a tie. Marines were very punished back then anyway, with moving and only shoot once at 12".

      As far as power playing, once I fielded 120 space Marines in the same battle (with 2 dreads and the EC) to see how it would go. It was Templars, 2500 point battle. Keep in mind my opponent wanted to do this as well. I fielded them in denied flank formation, went 2nd, and wiped out my opponents army by the 4th turn - even without upgrades. No power fists, no plasma guns. But it did not fit the theme of the army, and it did not feel right. So that was the only time I did it.

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    12. @EpicWarGamer
      I'm confused, you've said in a lot of your previous comments that the people who will refuse to use certain new additions to the game will be in the minority and seem to have largely dismissed them as not playing the game properly due to complaining about/not wanting to play against some of the new Escalation/Stronghold stuff.

      Yet now you're saying that you would refuse to play someone with a Revenant on a Skyshield, which is fair enough, but is also the exact same sort of thing that tournament gamers have been against.

      The reason why a lot of them have been talking about ignoring Escalation is exactly because there are players who would pull this combo at a tournament, and most people (tourney players included) have little interest in playing against something like that.

      So why have you been being so dismissive and bad tempered towards tournament gamers comments when you seem to agree with them on the principle of not wanting to fight against stupid stuff like Revenant + Skyshield? The only difference is that they wouldn't be able to simply reject a game at a tournament and would therefore rather things like that were avoided in lists in the first place.

      That's my understanding of it all anyway, so I was just wondering why you seem so set on disagreeing with their view point when you seem to agree with at least some their views.

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    13. Back@Arclight - Use the additions, but toward the theme. IYDNK, Revenant Titans are high mobility titans. Why on earth would they sit on a skyshield? What if I balance my emperor titan's base on the landing pad? Does he get the same benefit? Do you see how dumb that sounds?

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    14. and you of course are the one who knows what the "theme" is......hello design team

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  2. Green Knight, please allow me to fix your comment for you...

    These articles about titans, forgeworld and dataslates are a real breath of fresh air. The majority of this site's visitors are over 15 and agree that before crying that something is unbalanced, destroys competitive play, and leads to unenjoyable games, games actually have to be played. Not testing out theories is simply stupid and bad for the game.

    You're welcome.

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    1. Agreed. When I started fielding my Warhound, there was some bitching. After 2 games, the bitching stopped and it was 'just a big target' that pretty much everyone had the tools to kill already in the army.
      Well, except for the 'one button win' armies… But against anyone using Stronghold or Escalation that button just seems to no longer work. Oh dear, maybe they will just have to make their own army the old fashioned way that go online for a cheese "Guaranteed Win" army.

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    2. Dude they have been tested and every time titans and forge world are used the game is over turn 2, yeah real fun.

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    3. Not true at all Green Knight. Can I see the reference for your 'tests'? I field an Emperor Titan and a Warlord Titan in my Apocalypse games. Even with all of that perverse firepower, my opponent still manages to down my titans. Keep in mind these are 30k /40k games. 40000 points you can field enough to kill a Titan easily.

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    4. Lol 40000 points? I am talking about real games , are you serious? yeah losing a 400 point unit is fine with 39600 left but in a 2000 point game that mean the end by turn two.

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    5. Var - your hilarious. "Oh dear, maybe they will just have to make their own army the old fashioned way that go online for a cheese "Guaranteed Win" army."

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    6. Green Knight, still looking for the reference to your tests...

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    7. Green knight, did you by any chance read the article Naftka linked to ? The titans army lost. As did the revanent Titan game that Naftka played... That's two games I've heard of it done now, both with the titans team losing.

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    8. Super heavies in general are just big oversized targets that take up points in your army. There are lots of ways to beat them, even if you're not shooting! Assault them if you have to! But honestly, as was proven in the linked game, if you wipe the opponents army off the table, then who cares about the big scary monster you're fighting?

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    9. Wow Green Knight. "Dude they have been tested and every time titans and forge world are used the game is over turn 2, yeah real fun." So not true. Let me guess, you have seen the Plastic Thunderhawk personally and have held it in your hands?

      Lets see. Twice now I have faced the revenant...game 1 - 5 turns at 2k; game 2 - 4 turns at 2k. This week will see it at either 1.5k or 1850. I have been using Red Scorpion Chapter Tactics since they were updated. I have yet to have a game be finished in 2 turns. Last game against SoB it took 5 turns, I won due to having 4 troop choices (2 of which were combat squads) that gave me the edge on objectives.

      Titans and Forge World does not = game over in 2 turns. That is an blatant overgeneralization that mathematically will not happen all the time. Could it? Yep, but the percentages for each army + general + dice roll + units chosen = incalculable.

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    10. Haha, I'm still laughing at the "I'm talking real games..." Guess us Apocalypse only players are not playing real games.

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  3. Now don't get me wrong here.... but does no one play with any even halfway reasonable people?! Every single person I've played with in my area has been a great sport. Even if its something that's in the rule book they ask if I'm cool with it. For example flyers. They asked permission before running old out of date codexes (by which I mean like the chapter approved kroot stuff), etc. I know a lot of the anguish is about tournaments allowing this stuff, but couldn't tournaments very easily say only main rulebook stuff, no escalation stronghold etc etc? Just saying, for a game that puts a lot of emphasis on making your own scenarios and customization, we seem to do a lot of stressing over nonessential rules.

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    1. You'll notice that it's a very vocal minority, the same user names over and over again, that continue to bitch about these things. So, yeah, you've got a good point there, TNT, like JayDee says below.

      Putting a Titan on a Skyshield is a stupid, cheesy trick that's just done to try to make an invalid point. A model needs to be at least 25% obscured by cover to get that cover save, which the Skyshield clearly doesn't do. And at 1,850 points, I'd be spending all my time trying to kill what of his remaining 950 points that can score.

      Yeah, a super heavy/gargantuan creature at 1,850 is a good way to lose a game...

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    2. and the same usernames will run themselves in logic circles about D-weapons being required to balance deathstars before stating the balance isn't the point of the game. I've said my piece and I'm glad anyone I play against isn't absolutely boorish, personally I can't wait for the same people who are loving D-weapons to be crying about them in 6-12 months time once they've been schooled week in, week out by them.

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    3. And Dataslates are Awesome Sauce! I played a game today with Cypher, and he died like a cheap hooker... To 5 Assault Centurions with the siege CC weapons plus Pedro Kantor, and Cypher managed to off one of them with his BS10 plasma pistol that Overwatches at his full BS10. It was an experiment, first time I'd used Cypher (1,850 points) and that Assault Centurion squad was a big points sink that didn't do much of anything else (nor did its LR Crusader ride) for the amount of points that my opponent put into it. But it made me re-think the value of Assault Centurions in a Crusader. They're really a bitch to kill, and the Crusader is a pretty decent delivery system.

      Anyway, point being, Dataslates are very cool, and I'm looking forward to more of them...

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    4. Skyshields grant an invul save which has nothing to do with cover nor requires 25% of a model be obscured.

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    5. I'll pay that the characters are cool.....I'm on the fence about the slotless formations at the moment though

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    6. Although I personally think the skyshield thing is a bit cheesy, it is an Invulnerable Save, not a Cover Save so the 25% rule doesn't apply.

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    7. I never said D Weapons were "needed to balance out Death Stars". There are other, conventional ways of dealing with them. And I don't believe in the need for balance in 40K. I just don't think the cost of the platform for a D Weapon is worth it in "normal" sized games of 40K, which for me and my meta is 1,850 to 2,000 points. You got a fancy toy you want to play with? Bring it! Let's have some fun!

      Cuz in the end, we're playing with toy soldiers... Let's keep some perspective here. It's a hobby and a game...

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    8. never said you did jdwelch, I was reffering to the use of that statement as a common argument used on this blog

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    9. My bad about the Skyshield. I've never played with or against one, so I thought it was a cover save.

      Still, it's still cheesy and not "in the spirit of the game", but then again neither is screamerstar, but I've never bitched about it, either. Just ran my Nurgle Biker Lord with The Black Mace and 5 Nurgle Chaos Spawn into it as quickly as I could and tied it up for the rest of the game. Ha!

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    10. I don't have a problem with the slotless formations, either, because:

      1) They're very restrictive (you MUST take them as-is, although you can kit out the non-named characters as their codex allows; point being, with the Tau one, for example, you must take 1 Riptide and 2 units of 3 Broadsides, and that's Expensive!)
      2) As mentioned, they're very expensive points-wise
      3) They're inflexible (maybe that's the same as #1, but I'm tired and now I've forgotten what my 3rd point was... LOL!)
      4) They still need to follow the Allies matrix, which is OK for Imperials and most Xenos, but not so hot for some other armies.

      Anyway, I think Dataslates (so far) are OK, I have no problems with them, either Characters or Formations. They provide more options, but you still only have X number of points to work with, and Formations tend to take up a lot of points, and I generally want as many points to spend on my Primary a Detachment, so, yeah, not a biggie.

      Let's play with our toy soldiers!!!

      8^D

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    11. The tau one is pretty rough but the others make are fine. Eldar and chaos sacrifice scoring and marks for their bonuses

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  4. I'm over 15 as well and I don't think escalation or D weapons bring such a massive imbalance. Oh and you'd be surprised to learn that the majority of 40k players are not actually Competitive Tournament players so why cater to a a stubborn minority? Its just a hobby and game. If you struggle to fund enjoyment in it maybe its just no longer for you?

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    1. so taking 18 broadsides and 3 riptides all with tank hunter and space marine PFE for no point increase is balanced?

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    2. Not at all. And it's why they get the same treatment as the D Weapons or flyer spam : You play that? Then play alone.

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    3. Thank you Daemon. Green Knight, your example is something that would sit on the Setup table, cause I am not playing it. Its not within the theme of the Army.

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    4. You both just proved me right, my example along with forge world and titans have no place in 40k.

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    5. In your version of 40k, maybe. There's a great big gaming world out there, dude. Maybe when you're old enough to get your license, you'll see some of it.

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    6. Forgeworld is more than welcome at our FLGS. Unless it's something broken like a tri-riptide. It's not a matter of : It's in the mainbook or not, it's a matter of : Does it make the game unfun for the receiving end or not.

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    7. Wow. I have yet to see any player (tournament/standard) own or let alone field 18 broadsides and 3 riptides in a game. Those units alone are 1700 points minimum, not to mention upgrades (which will exceed 2k). That's pretty monstrous to see in any game. The most I have seen locally is 2 people that use 1 firebase cadre. Have you seen that Green Knight? Have you played against that Green Knight? Is it over by turn 2 without Forge World or Titans? I would imagine it could be. See I can play that game to

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  5. Thanks for posting these battle reports. I'm glad a calm approach was taken before judging them as being super or subpar. I know my experience thus far with super heavies has been that they are underwhelming.

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    1. Seeing how the 'most feared' unit is performing is a good benchmark. I'm just happy that I can field all of my cool models now and make even more interesting narratives.

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  6. LOL.
    How does a Skyshield give a cover save to a Titan??
    I'm all for Escalation and Stronghold Assault and I don't count myself as a competitive player. And I'm far beyond 15-years-old if someone would take on that discussion.
    As far as I know it needs to cover at least 25% of the model to confer a cover save or am I wrong? I know the Skyshield grants its cover save to models on top of it, but keep in mind that was probably worded before someone decided to put a Titan (or any other SH/GC) there.

    I wouldn't do this to my enemies. But I also only do "friendly" games.

    He still lost the battle though.
    Thanks for sharing the battle report :)

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    1. The issue is the skyshield grants an invulnerable save to whatever is on it, not a cover save so it doesn't need to actually obscure any of it.

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    2. RTFM.
      Sky shield doesn't give cover, It gives Invul to everything standing on it. There's no 25% rule for that.

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    3. No, but the shield is the thing that furls up. Not some invisible energy barrier that cones up 10 inches. Its an exploit.

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    4. The fault to GW then for not making it clear in the BRB AND in the SA book. The same way, if to units are standing in the pad, they get invul save if they are shooting at each others... I guess they leave it that way to sell more Pad.

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    5. Next Apoc my Emperor Titan is sitting on a skyshield. Actually one skyshield under each foot. That's redundancy!

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  7. I still just don't get all the negativity and wailing and gnashing of teeth. Obviously escalation will not be used in tournaments simply due to the community's choice. So tournament gamers have nothing to worry about. As for casual gamers, how many are going to rush out to buy a revenant now just because it's OP? A very small minority. If it turns out not to be any fun for any opponents then people will probably be less excited to play against it and the owner will only use it occasionally. So why is this causing all of this end of the world bickering? Literally no one is forcing anyone to play escalation, but some people are actually excited about it. A chance for some of us to use our massive (and expensive) forgeworld super heavies more than the once or twice a year apoc game we can fit in is awesome. Please let's just try to all dial back the negativity and go back to enjoying our games in whatever way we find them most fun. Natfkas site has always been a beacon of positivity for the community, let's try to keep it that way.

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  8. They played 3 turns and he ended the game early because he couldn't see a win.

    He had a minimum of 2 more turns to try and table his opponent considering the titan was unscathed.

    I wouldn't take much from this battle report at all.

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    1. They don't care I keep trying to tell these guys how dumb setting up models to be done by turn 2 is. But no they just love zero competition or challenge.

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    2. Especially since the Eldar player, by the report, kind of played hilariously badly.

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    3. If they didn't fight and walked away, that would be zero competition or challenge.

      By staying, manning (unless they are female) up and playing the game means they love competition and/or challenges. I have played games that are over by turn 2 (vs. Tyranids) but I didn't know that would happen. See, Warhammer 40k relies on a system of randomness utilizing dice to determine success or failure. One does not know if the game will be over until the dice roll, you pull of that final model, etc. You shouldn't deal in false absolutes; it could prevent others from taking your comments or suggestions seriously. I would suggest a different sort of communicative method as it could provide less negative feedback and/or build credibility as a well spoken and informed individual. Keep in mind please that this is a suggestion and not me "telling" you what to do (or anyone else this could equally apply to).

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  9. Forge World and Titans have no place in 40k? Really? I think the lore says otherwise. I think the numerous posts over different blog sites; national/local tournaments; etc., prove that statement wrong. You don't like it, then you don't have to post as your comments provide nothing to assist in the discussion.

    You could try 1) "Hey everyone, can local game groups / TO's start keeping track of games using titans and fw, so we can start compiling actual data instead of speculation?
    or 2) "I have obviously never played against titans, forge world army lists, forge world units; I would appreciate more information from people so I can make an informed response."

    These are just a few suggested responses that you (or really anyone could try). Don't appreciate the suggestions? Tough. The rest of us in the community (Tournament Players, Casual Players, Narrative Players) will keep playing, keep testing out all the new changes and forge ahead to figure it out. In the meantime, we should be thankful that others are posting these results, including them in tournaments/standard games to provided information for the rest of us (also what read as entertaining battle reports). The focus might have started out as you Green Knight but it should be applied across the broad spectrum of players (the mysterious minority/majority spoken of)

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  10. Farsight bomb, even more overpowered than a Rev Titan. Not surprising.

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