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Cult Mechanicus Leaks!!!!!! Kastelan Robot Maniples


The rules for the Kastelan Robot Maniples are out. They are now as we are talking all over the internet showing us that the new robots have protocols that can be changed as the battle progresses. Also shown are many of the new rules and and equipment that we will be seeing.


Here is where you can see the new leaked information. The robots are monstrous creatures with 3 wounds and a toughness 7. Their guns are extremely anti-power armour, especially when combined with the protocols. Of course you can also keep their power fists. Very cool, but I had figured there would be a more anti-armor weapon upgrade somewhere.

http://imgur.com/a/PQi9K

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305781-rumours-cult-mechanicus-knights-kastelan-wd-leak/page-35#entry4025260

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162 Comments

  1. Those are the goofiest looking things GW has put out in a while.

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    1. They look like mega-man in some sort of a super suit...Maybe with a new head conversion it would be better, it's really the visors that are killing it for me.

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    2. I bet if there was some contrast in their paint scheme they'd look a lot better. And their faceplate/whatever if painted to look like glass perhaps or had some sort of light reflection painted on would improve the appearance.

      Their armblasters aren't very impressive, either.

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    3. Get them next to a pumped taurox prime!

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    4. I'm surprised that people got the robot PEACE from Wizards aspect of the Sydonian Dragoons but missed the aspect of the robots head.

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    5. Derpy looking, and they have to sacrifice CC for more shots? 290 points better spent elsewhere. Sorry Derpbots, no sale...,

      Their minder is cool, though.

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    6. Just paint them blue & put a ultra Symbol on them ;)

      If you need to talk about "how to fix the look" you should probably not buy! Wait for the next releas.

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    7. Good call batty.... idk why i didn't catch the influence after i noticed it immediately on the dragoon. These kind of just feel more generic 50s aesthetic to me than the others... i think the arms kill it for me more than the head

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  2. Two T7 5 wound Monstrous Creatures with Armor, Invuln, and FnP for 290 points.
    My Contemptor is looking pretty weak atm.

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    1. Capable of putting out 24 Str 6 AP3 shots, half of which are Twin linked too!

      Who cares about jetbikes now?

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    2. i was about to say, looked like 3 wounds to me, had to go and double check, cos i was a little disappointed in the small number of wounds compared to the model's physique.

      @natfka: theyre talkin bout the eldar jetbikes being "omg op"

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    3. sorry Adam... I have a dry sense of humor. I knew that, but was trying to be funny that these guys will be able to throw enough gunfire downwind to wipe them out.

      I wonder if there is a way for these guys to get rid of or reduce cover..... it would not surprise me.

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    4. ah, oops. i blame text for not having a decent way to convey tone P:

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    5. "Hey guys, if we make this thing a Monstrous Creature as opposed to a walker, Imperial armies will be more likely to ally it in."
      "Do it!!!!!$$$$$!!$!$!!!!$$$!"

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    6. Don't forget the force field so if they pass ANY of their saves they will deflect all the Scatter Lasers and D Weapons back at them!

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    7. We know why Eldars have D weapon now ;)

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    8. @ Damo

      errrr...doesn't it only reflect on a save roll of a 6, or am I misreading the rules?

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    9. it is only on 6's, but as with any new rules, hyperbole wins out!

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    10. Part of me feels like this is a rule the Orks should have on some of their bigger mech stuff (unless they do already) but I'm not an Ork player so I wouldn't really know.

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    11. Eldar were already NOT OP, but now we see, with these rapid updates of all other armies, their (incorrectly perceived) power level will be balanced out.

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    12. assuming cult mechanicus codex is out the week after the big bots, that'll be 5 new codex releases, with a week between each, which is just insane compared to previous one every 2-4 months, maybe less often than that.

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    13. Nah, the perception is pretty accurate. If you think Khorne Daemonkin is on par with Eldar or Necrons, you're a crazy person who needs to chomp some pills.

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    14. Jetbikes? What jetbikes? Oh you mean those vapour trails. Well, don't worry, vapours don't shoot back.

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    15. Personally I think Eldar are a bit more powerful but not to an op degree, there's pretty obvious ways to deal with them, and these guys should be a major help.

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    16. For 297 points you can buy 11 scat bikes for
      44 str 6 ap6 shots at 36 range and 11 wounds at t4, 3+ armour, 4+ jink in several objective secured units. I'd hardly call that what bikes. Your talking nearly double the wounds and shots.

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    17. Yeah it's only on a roll of a 6 but the point I was making is that it says ANY of their saves... Armour... Invuln... FNP...

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    18. People also seem to forget that bikes will have 10x as many wounds for the same points, be able to move around super quickly, and take jink saves...

      Yeah. I'll still take that over this three wound MC that can move 6" a turn.

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    19. FnP technically isn't a save unless the rule specifically says "saves and FnP"

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    20. actually, i dont think FNP is considered a type of "save" in this context, only Armour, Unvulnerable, and Cover

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    21. Eldar ARE overpowered. The fact these things are also overpowered doesn't retroactively make the Eldar book any less ludicrous. Personally, I'm not really cheering on the fact that Imperial armies now have access to units of stupidly powerful MCs with fantastic shooting.

      But hey, it was nice of GW to utterly give up on writing rules with external balance AFTER Dark Eldar =P

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    22. Also does not work on blast or template so most S:D shooting.

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    23. Also the "if every future army gets this powerful then its just even..." argument is incredibly stupid. Power creep is bad news. Especially considering Warhammer isn't a video game where one OP patch can be replaced in a few weeks. To wait for every army to get to the level of ridiculousness Eldar is at would take 10+ years. You can't ratchet up the power of every new codex because then it's just a never ending arms race.

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    24. These are no more op than the castellax from forge world. These are taken pretty much exactly from those with a few tweaks.

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    25. Daniel, Orks aren't supposed to have good stuff. They're there to forge the narrative when all the other armies beat them :^)

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    26. Yeah but the upgrade to shooting comes at the cost of FNP and gets announced to your opponent the turn before. "Oh so that unit is going to stand and shoot next turn? Fine I'll just move my unit out of your LOS in this cover then". The strategic implications of telegraphing your actions next round are huge and really need to be considered. These arn't like Dotrina Imperatives where you can just drop a BS+ on your troops at the beginning of the turn. This one the opponent gets to respond to before it takes effect!

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    27. These are no more op than the castellax from forge world. These are taken pretty much exactly from those with a few tweaks.

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    28. Incidentally the bots can't double their shots on the twin-linked phosphor blasters. The ability that does it specifies "carapace mounted weapons". Granted they can still have 6 twin-linked shots each which is... brutal

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    29. Doesn't the page state may replace both power fists with a single twin linked Phosphor blaster. And I'm not sure about this but aren't monstrous creatures restricted to firing a maximum of two weapon per shooting phase...

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    30. Riptides can fire 3, but only have 2 guns. Everything else is two guns.

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    31. D-weapon will kill you squads in a snap.

      Admech never planed for a new Eldar dex?

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    32. @ Baman von Batrad: a one-sided crumpin' is no fun.

      @ Threllen: I;ve been saying this for years, to the point I'm a broken record: I truly think that GW should regularly tweak the games through an FAQ format. That still wouldn't prevent them from releasing "unbalanced" codices to begin with, but at least they'd be able to balance things w/o having to force the entire hobby to wait until a new codex hits. And that's assuming they'd fix things, and not just release a codex that is OP in different ways.

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    33. Also, given the rules discussions I'm reading so far, I can't imagine the debate that these new units are going to generate.

      "No, you can't do that"
      "yeah, says right here"
      "No, that isn't what it says"

      /wrists

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  3. How about that twin linked 6 shots each of 36" str 6 ap 2? Ouch.

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    1. If they don't move they can shoot twice each.

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    2. So much for my land raider crusader's hurricane bolters...

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    3. Only the shoulder gun gets to fire twice, so it's 3 twin-linked shots and 6 regular shots max per model.

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    4. Not only do you announce to your opponent the turn before that your unit is immobile and going to stand where it is and shot 2x with its shoulder won only but it loses its fnp. Your also paying 15 pts more on a 120 or model to switch the torrent flamed to the phosphorous wpns.

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  4. not sure i like the incredible gap in detail when the robots are compared to their handler.
    imperial knights and a bunch of other stuff are based off rogue trader models and they look great when updated, these look like somebody stuck spare 40k bitz to a toy robot

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    1. they are very... smooth... they look more like what power armour would be like had it gone down a different evolutionary path

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    2. Just another example of the more effective, widespread army getting the good stuff while the Adeptus Astartes and Astra Militarum get the leftovers. I'm glad I picked the winning Imperial team. Bye bye, Space Marine models. It was nice knowing you.

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    3. FW robots had the same smooth, rounded aesthetic, everybody went ga-ga over them....

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    4. the forgeworld robots, whilst smooth and rounded mostly, arent nearly as so compared to these guys. they have trims on their armour, and visible rivets, as well as tubes, pistons, and very blocky hands and feet

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    5. Yeah Adam but those tubes and pistons are vulnerabilities. These robots would have the same tubes and psitons but with more armour over them so you don't end up seeing them.

      As for Rivets i'm sure GW got as many on as they can but plastic molding doesn't do rivets anywhere near as well as resin.

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    6. want more rivets.....add some yourself.

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    8. Going by the blurb the Kastelans are supposed to look very different from the current Ad Mech stuff because they are much, much older than most of the materiel (which is already pretty old).

      I can't say that makes me like the heads and wrists any more though...

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  5. I like my Castellax for looks of the model, but these guys are way more beefy with 2+ Armor save but cost is way more costly then then the Castellax which has BS4 +1W for 85 points a model. Weapons wise we are way better equipped Mauler Bolter, Darkfire Bolter, Multi-melta. but we dont have data smiths to fallow the robots, we only have our HQ units

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    1. 2+ is only on the Leader Guy rest have a 3+

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    2. 2+ is only on the Leader Guy rest have a 3+

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    3. How is the mauler better than those 24 ap3 shots coming of just two of these bad boys?

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    4. 18 shots while being stationary from two with the protocol. The Power fists (both of them) are replaced with a SINGLE twin linked heavy phosphor blaster for +10 pts. ( A basic castellax is a full 50pts cheaper than one of these guys with the phospor weapons! BTW)

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    5. @Hydrapup Castellax are cheaper so lets compair a decked out one it would cost 140 i belive. A Castellax Decked out 85 for the Robot, 15 point to make is BS 5 and 1- to cover saves. Dark Fire 60" S7 AP2 Heavy 2 Gets hot Lance for 20 points, Multi-melta free, or Mualer bolter Assult 3 S6 AP 3 24". On top they have 1 more Wound and they get some more perk when near a controler, re-rolling poison wounds and flesh-bane wounds on it.

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    6. @Kenneth the kastelan can fire its shoulder mounted gun twice if it forgoes its movement so it is indeed 24 shots of 2 automata.

      @Deadwingman Maybe the cCstellax has better survivability but the amount of fire just does not compare for anti infantry roles the kastelans are the better units but value for pointswise I just don't know.

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    7. Aren't Castellax Horus Heresy only? in which case they'd be balanced differently compared to the core 40k system? Just saying that the comparison doesn't make that much sense when Castellax are not (to my knowledge) designed to be used outside of a 30k setting which has a fairly different balancing style...

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    8. Castellax were in plentiful supply during the Great Crusade/Heresy Era. These new fellas look to be a spiritual successor 5th the Castellax, and given the rarity and controversy of Automata in the 40k setting, they will naturally cost more to field.

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    9. I meant to say 'to' not '5th'.

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    10. @Bloodraven Rules wise you are correct, Fluff wise they are alive in the 40k setting, Legio Cybernetica was very heavy reduiced but they all exsited in Dark Admech, i use the 30k for, and the good Admech

      @hydrapup umm the Castellax can have change it's 2 boltguns, Standard bolters, for 2 Flamers so i tihnk it has the Anti Infantry

      Myself i play Fluff with my 30k admech, but what being 40k admech not enough robot for me. Linchpin in both these armies is kill the controller, 30k turns into like Nids and 40k i dont know what will happen when you pick off the controllers here.

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    11. @Stephen Jackson you are correct they look like they are the successor to the Castellax

      ANd i would to see 30k admech line up against these guys. Let the battle for the Admech Forgeworld begin!

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    12. No they are not succesors the castellan is a class of robot.. the Castallax is a type of Castellan you can read the fluff on there FW page but this is where im confused as the new robot is called Kastelan but it is clearly a Castellan from rogue trader so in theory the Castallax is the succesor... more a companion really to these robots.

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    13. You've gotta remember when comparing 30k values that the HH games are generally geared towards larger engagements than 40k, both in points values and in models on the table. Some units will be cheaper than others especially when they're Troops choices like the Castellax.

      Looking at the two cousin robots' stats they're pretty closely matched:

      Castellax: BS4, S6, W4, I3, Sv3+, 5++, 16% chance of exploding upon death like a vehicle, 85pts, Troops & their Cybernetica Cortex can *seriously restrict their freedom of action without a Controller model nearby and makes them slightly vulnerable to Haywire* but offers situational defensive benefits (Fearless, re-roll Fleshbane/Poison & gives Ad Will).

      Kastelan: BS3, S10, W3, Sv3+, 5++, 16% chance to reflect fire back, more tactical flexibility thanks to the three Protocols, far more killy in assault or can put out far more dakka at a longer range and has the benefit of Canticles which we currently know nothing about but seems to be buffs of some kind.

      Given some of the drawbacks of the Castellax and that the Kastelan basically has none, plus the longer range, plus being twice as powerful in assault (or significantly more firepower) aaaaand the Protocols I think they just might be worth the extra 35pts.

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    14. *plus the Ks are HS and 120pts - left that out.

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    15. Mauler you are the best thanks for the explaination!

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    16. Kastelen get Power fists, Castellax have to pay for there Power blades

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    17. Not a problem :]

      PS - Power Blades are S:User, AP2, Rending (presumably for the 6 = auto-wound and +D3 armour pen)

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  6. These models are, IMO, some of the worst that GW has put out in the last year (and they have released a lot). I'm sort of glad, as I could not withstand any more temptation after the new Eldar and upcoming Knights. But really, 1980's astronauts, or underwater divers that would look at home in your goldfish bowl don't scream "must buy" to me. Perhaps they mirror what was done back in the RT days or other fluff, but sometimes you should deviate for the better. Unlike centurions or other models, these don't even look like they'd be easy to "fix". They obviously borrower design cues from the contemptor (particularly the legs and lower torso), but miss out on the heroic proportions and just look...awkward. Reassuring to know though that I'm still not willing to play with ugly models no matter how good the rules may be, and in this case they seem pretty decent.

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    1. Good for you.

      Personally I think the Saim Hann Eldar paint scheme doesn't do them any favours.

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    2. moving on ... the model look alright and the rules even more ^^

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    3. I think they look great and it matches their fluff, these things are OLD they don't even have machine spirits...hell they can only do one thing at a time AND it takes them a whole opponents turn to realize you told them to feel pain again and shoot more. I'm gonna paint crayon looking faces in the screen-thingy (think Good Cop at the end of LEGO Movie).

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    4. Kind of nice having a good old device model design again, none of this boring consensus :P

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    5. Divisive, sorry not device

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  7. I'm torn on the models, like everything but the head, could swap it out easily I suppose. Could just be the paint job and the flat images of course, stuff tends to look better in the flesh.

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    1. swap the heads for ogryn heads with some tubes added ;D

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    4. The only thing I'll be doing is changing the visor to more of a 'slit' type, same as the helms on the Skitarii Vanguard. Besides that I like them :)

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  8. Surely I'm not the only one to think of getting some of these models just to paint like this, right?

    http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/5/5b/Protectron.png/revision/20110126021015

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    1. personally im expecting to see a lot of face painted on the visors, but who knows

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  9. 1960's sci-fi here we come.

    Ugly, goofy, but I love em'

    Emperor Ming would have an army of these things.

    Sod Mars! I am going to Mongo!

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    1. If you want really Mongo check out War Rocket and Retro Raygun from Hydra Miniatures (disclaimer, i actually worked on the Retro Raygun Rulebook) though Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers is more of a 30's style than a 60's.

      These robots i think just need the right paintjob to match the rest of the emchanicus force i think, the silver faceplates are i think the trouble, painted more like the Thallax i think they'll fit better.

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    3. True- I first saw them as a young kid in the 70's but was also refering to the host of movies that came in the 60''s heavily inspired by both Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers.

      Agree with the faceplates but I will customise a single lens instead of the faceplate to see if it works.

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  10. if I get some of these I'm going to have to make them look like big daddies from bioshock maybe with the datasmith as a little sister

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    1. Pictures or it didn't happen! That would be perfect, lol

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    2. big daddies? surely you want the ogryn charonite squad then!

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    3. Do the multiple lenses and then make the protective railing from light bendable wire :)

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  11. Why can't dreadnaughts be this nice?

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  12. Replies
    1. I would say one is worth 40-50$ Canadian. But it could be as low as 30 who knows.

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    2. my current guess is a box of 2 of the big guys and 1 controller for £30-40. although i could see it breaching into the low 40's.

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    3. Damn that would be alot more than anticipated, I'll probably have to sit this one out too.. Save it for a future purchase

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    4. I think your estimates on the box contents are correct based on the options. Similar to the tau sniper drones options and box contents (I'm sure other things are too but this is what I've seen that comes to mind first.)

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  13. Oh my! Leaking robot man nipples?! What has 40K come to??!!

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  14. Growing on me...
    This whole mechanicus / skitarii / knights release has really been top notch mini wise, not sold on the electro priests but need to see some better pics before I make my mind up...
    so tempting to start a new force, they're definitely on the cards, maybe I can use this as an incentive to finish up some of my never ending projects!

    The data smith looks great... can't wait to see some more pics of him and the HQ.

    Interesting the the assumed dual builds for the tracked servitors and electro priests aren't shown on the leaked poster...

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    1. Using it as incentive is a great idea. I'm in lol

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  15. Want sure about them in the early leaks but absolutely love them now along with everything else from the Ad Mech release.

    GW are really on top of their game at the moment as far as I'm concerned.

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  16. W3 T7 monstrous creatures deflecting shots on saves of 6? Nice to meet you, my name is Venoms, for we are many :)

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    1. Hello Venom's my name is the holy (heavy) bolter. we like shooting down venoms....

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    2. MMM the applications for mass poisoning with DE. My raiding force has 5 venoms. Each has 2 splinter cannons... that's roughly 60 poisoned shots...

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    3. People dont understand what T7 means on a "low" save model with no invl.

      These are good on paper. But the shooting is not enough & i dont see them standing a chance Vs knights & WKs

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    4. Why would they stand a chance against knights? Wraithknights... maybe in CC with both baymaxes, but 1v1, either of those options would smack it down.

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    5. Why would they stand a chance against knights? Wraithknights... maybe in CC with both baymaxes, but 1v1, either of those options would smack it down.

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  17. Am I the only person who wants to paint these guys like this:

    http://cdn.static.ovimg.com/episode/277844.jpg

    ?
    (It's the alien spaceman ghost from Scooby-Doo)

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  18. I feel sad for orks, wolves, DE and BA (especially the last ones) since they came out this edition but before the "make everything more powerful to create balance philosophy"

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    1. Haha yeah they kinda got screwed but it would seem a codex with more than a 2 year lifespan is now out of the question

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    2. Atleast it isn't DA or CSM this time around. (updates pending of course but we now know for sure they don't have the short end this time round)

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    3. I honestly wish they would have held off doing SW and BA until the redid the C:SM books. Now, the changes made will be limited because some of the biggies (dreadnaughts as MC and improved terminator armour) can't happen without causing major FAQs for the prior books, which we all know won't happen. Its why those two units never get improved but (some) Xenos gets buffed out the ass every release.

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    4. @Unknown: How do you know? GW could release another tribute to the 4th edition Chaos Space Marine codex, and 7th edition Dark Angels could be another effort to balance the game with high points costs and underpowered weaponry on whatever new kits are released for it.

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    5. ^ unless they re-release BA/SW etc then DA/CSM won't be as hit hard as last time. it's deductive logic/reasoning. if we see SW/BA etc before chaos and dark angels then we will know that chaos/DA will be bad or not. but if they don't redo the SM dex's released for these two, then what my speculation implies is in fact correct.

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    6. but until they re-do the DA/CSM for 7th or they do the unthinkable and re-do dex's within the same (ish) edition......well yeah that opens up pandora's box of unwanted dex update's. also weren't the DA/CSM released around the start of 6th edition? (a few months later they changed to 6.5 and later still 7th).....let's say i assume or expect that chaos will get better, and dark angels will get some buffs. chaos is the "bad guy faction" it's in need of positive tweaks as is DA, atleast to bring to balance v current dex's (i know full well GW stance on balance- no balance is balance) reasoning for chaos to be better is to get more people buying chaos models, as all these imperial and xenos armies are drawing too much attention away from this faction, and if they fix the DA then they can finally overcome their boners for ****ing the DA players over...

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    7. ...and i get this assumption from the fact that if models are selling badly or not as good as it could be they up the rules so people change their mind and buy X. it can be another thing like the "limited item" gimmick, this one is the "no one is buying so let's pre-update before schedule to boost sales" gimmick...

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  19. I'm still trying to work out gow upset my nids are that there's cheap MCs that shoot much better than they do ... But then these ones don't quite have the same survivability for the price. Kinda better kinda wise. Hmm.

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  20. Why is it named with a K now? Is it supposed to be the same as the rogue trader robots... if so Forgeworld need to change there castellax fluff because they are a class of castellan automata.

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    1. It's probably for the same reason Sydonian Dragoons aren't Cydonian Dragoons.

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    2. So they can copyright it! :]

      Also, Castellan is a type of Knight back in-game as of this weekend so they might've also of thought that the spelling change would head off some (minor) confusion in some areas?

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    3. Ah good thinking Mauler... but I wish companies wouldn't treat there customers like idiots... its not just GW its endemic.

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  21. Sooooo.... They don't have this magical firing weapon back at the enemy thing on 6's. They have a refractor field, it's 5+ invuln. And that's it...

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    1. And they look like there from the 70's they got that!

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    2. So who has the rubber shield then?

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    3. The robots do... if you make a save of any kind roll a d6. If you roll a 6 the shot get deflected back automatically? hitting the firing unit as if the automata had fired it with the full weapon profile and rules.

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    4. hmmm could be interesting, tank throwing and also ordnance repelling....and they said orks were comedic....move over orks we have a new clown car race in town.

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    5. Heh here a scenario... Knight throws a Land Raider at said robots... rolls a 6... right back at ya buddy :D

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    6. Or wraithknight shoots you with a wraithcannon you roll a 6 to save then a 6 to wound bye bye wraithknight

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    7. Or wraithknight shoots you with a wraithcannon you roll a 6 to save then a 6 to wound bye bye wraithknight

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    8. ^ lol that'd be awesome to see in game, anyone does this match up and it actually happens do post pictures/video of it.

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    9. The grid doesn't reflect blasts or template hits, so no thrown stuff is getting bounced back due to being a large pie hit...

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    10. Ah i haven't seen he specific rule for the powerfist yet Mauler.. @plaquefather that wont work either as they can only deflect what they have saved so a 6 on the D chart would kill them ignoring there invuns. Remember the strength of the D is determined after hitting the initial target (the robots) and then whatever strength the D shot is it will be deflected back unchanged as long as they make the save.

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    11. and roll a 6 I should add.

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    12. Yeah, against a 6 on the D chart it's pretty much a gonner anyway. I think that with the 2-5 D3 result each wound is saved separately so there's a slim chance of reflecting all 3 hits back at the firer (by rolling three 6 saves) if it's a powerful D3 result. Some people who aren't too familiar with destroyer weapons may just think that it's one save because it's one initial hit, but no.

      Full WD Hurl rules are:

      http://i.imgur.com/oplKQOJ.jpg

      :]

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    13. mauler i'm pretty sure you just need to save once as D weapons cause an automatic wound and that wound causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1. So if you save it no d3 is inflicted.

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    14. Armour saves are taken once a wound has been caused by a hit in an effort to prevent that wound. D weapons roll on the table instead of a normal S vs T roll, the D3 or D6+6 decides the number of wounds and then invuln/cover saves are taken against those wounds if not a DH/Deathblow.

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    15. I do not agree because of the way it is worded see it says lose not inflict or cause. The only wound caused is the initial one but that one wound causes the model to lose d3 or d6 wounds.

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    16. You lose a wound when you fail a save... I should add to clarify furthur

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    17. You can't save a wound you have already lost to clarify even furthur ;)

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    19. Actually I think you're right:

      Non-vehicle - Seriously Wounded: The model suffers a hit that wounds automatically and causes it to lose D3 Wounds instead of 1.

      "...wounds automatically..." is what you save against...then the D3 if you fail.

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  22. in the incindiary combuster weapon profile it mentions a cognis flamer. How do you make a flamer cognis? If this means I can snap shot my flamer into an invisible unit I will be quite happy

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    1. Over watch for flamers is d3 hits.... It might allow a reroll of the d3. Just a guess or it's just bad rules writers.

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    2. It just is confusing since cognis is snap shot at bs 2 but flamers cant snap shoot except wall of flame so it doesnt make much sense to make them bs 2

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    3. All will be revealed in time :D

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