Chiming in for us tonight is very solid source on the upcoming Space Wolves release. Specifically about Grey Hunters, Bloodclaws, Terminators, Wolfguard and more. Space Wolves are apparently getting access to the Space Marine AA, getting a new flyer (that we had some details about earlier from a different source), and getting some cool formations.


Please remember that these are rumors.

via an must remain anonymous source on Faeit 212
Your information on space wolves main units is a bit off.

Grey Hunters are not cheaper, they are still 15/model.

They come with Bolter, Bolt Pistol, grenades, ATSKNF, Counter Attack and Acute Senses.

They can have one model upgraded to a Wolf Guard, for +10 points, who gets +1Ld/attack and access to wargear.  (Same as veteran sergeants, except that if not taken, there isn't a "character" in the unit the way normal sergeants are).

They can take 1 special weapon, or 2 at 10 man.  They are limited only to special weapons and not heavy as per normal.  They pay the same points as space marines now, not a discount and not a free one at 10.

They can also take plasma pistols at 1 per 5 in addition to special weapons.

They can swap their bolter for a chainsword at no cost, on a model-by-model basis, and it specifies that it must also be represented on the model.

Wolf banners are still in, but aren't as good and cost 15 points not 10.

Bloodclaws are 13 points per model, minimum 5 up to 20.  Similar as above for upgrades.  Unlike what's in stormclaw, if you upgrade a Bloodclaw to a Wolf Guard he gets +1 WS and BS (to take him to 4/4).  They have rage now instead of their former +d3 attacks on the charge.

Wolf Guard terminators are now an entry, as are Wolf Guard non terminators, so no mixing and matching.  No more pack leader separating of Wolf Guard to join other squads.  Just upgrades in unit.

While I'm sure that a lot of people will be flipping over the loss of certain iconic character elements for space wolves, the new stuff in the book isn't just "Wolf This" "Wolf That" and they still remain sufficiently divergent from normal marines, with points costs that are now in line with them.  Though I won't deny that they definitely were toned down in a lot of ways (that they weren't really overpowered in by any real means) they have been compensated for by gaining access to things like space marine AA tanks, a new flyer and some really nifty formations.

Logan Grimnar and Bjorn are Lords of War.

158 Comments:

  1. Hmmm Bloodclaws have never had +d3 attacks.

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    1. I wonder if they'll have special rule 'combat squads' on hunters or claws? StormClaw seemed to favor 5man packs

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    2. I think the rumor dude confused the old "not as good as current rage" and the rule of Ragnar Blackmane.

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  2. I have a hard time believing that they all have acute senses still, as they can't even use it...so either outflanking will be more abundant,or...something is off.

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    1. Stormclaw has them listed as acute senses, and the prices and wargear are in line with these rumors. Maybe we will see a saga that confers outflank to a unit or two.

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    2. Too much in line maybe?
      The guy is prob just makeing it up look at BloodClaw.

      If Its anything like the ork releas. The dex is 4 weeks away. And the ork rule leaks were all but accurate up until the week before release.

      Besides this rumor makes them worse than SM. Essentialy chapter tactics Counterattack. Higher points. Ect..
      Its still to far out. Rumors arent worth much so far out.

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    3. Seb. What you state is absolute bull.

      Technically, the Sons of Russ remain cheaper AND better, only paying a single point for the massive advantage of Counter Attacks... or are you so absorbed in your little fantasy world that everything GW does for the game is terrible and is pathetic?

      Blood Claws, actually seem like cheaper but less experience Khorne Berserkers without Furious Charge, unless Ragnar is in the unit (if he still has his Furious Charge rule, that is) and seem worth using.

      It almost sounds like you're a spoiled brat in regards to these rumors, and you whine when you don't get what you want. Which is rather annoying.

      I for one, believe these rumors finally balance the Wolves versus the other chapters, they still have an edge, but it's not so massive that they're an auto take.

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    4. @Avis Lee: No Seb is right, for once, Hunters will pay 1 point more for their Chapter tactics. Sure counter attack is really good now, but so is 6+ FNP or Scout, which is given "free" to tactical marines. And how does the Gray hunters remain cheaper?

      The Blood Claws seem better, and where they SHOULD be imo. So on that point seb is his same old crazy

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  3. That's a whole lot of weak sauce.

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  4. Cause I'm curious: Will all terminator SW armies still be possible (as in battleforged, not unbound)?

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    1. Supposedly Logan Grimnar still allows wolfguard as troops, so yes.

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    2. I thought they were doing away with that kind of thing when they removed "nobz as troops" and such things from the Ork codex...

      Obviously not.

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  5. Now this rumor I take a lot of salt with. They messed up the grey hunters.

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    1. CSM w/ MoK = 15 points. If these rumors are true, Grey Hunters are still WAAAYYYY better.

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    2. Herp.. A CSm w MoK brings them at the same points cost as a GH with a rage. With the ability to take long range weapons, with a free serg (ld 9) and the ability to be ld 10 and ultragrit for 2 ppm.

      You a deluded if you think grey hunters are better under those rules.

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    3. CSM sergeant isn't free. It's 10 points is added to the base unit cost. Also, ATKNF is waaaaaay better than Ld 9/10.

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    4. @Salire...

      Um. The CSM have to pay ANOTHER POINT for leadership 9, and they come with their sergeant naturally.

      Essentially, your extra point goes to your Rage, while the Wolves are less likely to run the fuck out of dodge thanks to ATSKNF.

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    5. So Space Wolves are better at running away. It is noted.

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    6. Nuglitch: Tactical redeployment to prepare for another glorious charge. :D

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  6. The blood claw in Stormclaw isn't upgraded. He's just the most eager to impress in his pack. Just like Ragnar when he was a claw.

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  7. seems kinda odd now, but im stoked to see how all this works out. think it's cool blood claws got a bump in unit capacity. grey hunter mods are a little disappointing but i'll roll with the punches.

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    1. Why would you like the blood claw unit capacity as 20, they were a dangerous threat at 15 models. In 5th editon a full pack of blood claws was 225, if the rumor is true and it is 20 models its going to be 240 for a full squad. But if you simply take 15 models you pay 180 points.

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    2. more W to soak up damage. never a bad thing.

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    4. 60pt onto 15 models to add to 240pt to make 20 man squad isn't a bad option to have. better than not having it. more options leads to greater scope of tactical scenario's. if footslogging then more W = greater chance of surviving or bogging down something. just one example.

      ^*deleted last because it didn't make sense [possibly to some] so i added missing text*

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  8. I find it hard to believe that GH's will lose the Bolter, close combat wep and bolt pistol combo, they have had it for like 20+ years now. Still costed at 15pts each they would need something to make them worth the extra over a Marine standard. Counter attack will still be worth having but I have 40 GH's all with holstered pistol, a bolter and chainsword modeled on them. Acute senses sucks balls as only scouts and one Saga can even use it. I am looking forward to this new flyer though so long as it not just a Storm Raven kit with wolf stuff all over it.

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    1. They've only had that combination since the. 5e codex, so not even 6 years.

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    2. I agree I have 60+ Grey Hunters all modeled variously with different combos of CS, BP and bolter. I find it hard to believe GW would put such a hard modeling limit in a standard codex. Lots of salt, but worse case I'll either just start removing and replacing GH loadout, or all together ignoring it.

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    3. 3Rd edition saw grey hunters get "true grit" special rule allowing a GH to fire his bolter one handed like a pistol giving an extra attack die in clise combat but no bonus on the charge, revised in 5th(nerfed imo) i feel a giant nerfbat swinging through the air, i can only hope the new units make up for the forsakening of our fenrisian cultures 8-P

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    4. Rumor states +1 point can have all wargear

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    5. Where do you see that Lew? I don't see that.

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    6. CSM with Mark of Khorne are 15 points.... Stop complaining.

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    7. Yeah I imagine it'll be like CSMs, you can have the rifle pistol and sword but it'll cost ya a small amount of points

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    8. Acute Senses, while baseline on a model without Scout/Infiltrate/Outflank isn't that brilliant an idea, it's not entirely useless. There's already a Warlord trait in the BRB that gives several non-vehicle units Outflank. And we haven't seen the SW Warlord Traits yet.

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    9. They took Bolt Pistol, Bolter, and CCW from CSM and made them either swap or pay 2ppm for CCW.

      Expect the same here.

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    10. Well since the rumors are that sagas are now warlord traits (which is proven via stormclaw with the new warrior born) that your warlord can select, maybe saga of the hunter will be different. Similar to the strategic warlord trait, allowing you to outflank your warlord plus x amount of infantry/units.

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    11. If this is true and they can't have all three, I have about 20 worthless grey hunters now. TY games workshop...

      I just want to one hand a bolter. Its cooler then holding it sideways.

      I'm totally cool with wgt being a unit. Just hope they keep the dp option. In stormclaw, they have deepstrike as a rule due to term armour, we will see if the dex geta rid of that again and I doubt they will give us both.

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    12. If the rumor is true, expect to see a lot of Grey Hunters wasting away on eBay (including my 40, which I finished painting last week). GH were one of the things that drew me into the Wolves, as they seemed very versatile. I've found them to be competitive, but not broken. If for some reason having CCWs would break the game in GW's mind I'd happily pay a point or 2 more like CSM does.

      The promise of fliers and AA tanks doesn't soften the blow at all. In some ways, I find it more insulting. We'll take away the most noticeable unique element of your army (if you're not running wolf cav) and give a Stormraven variant and a crummy AA tank.

      I guess the silver lining is that I'll be motivated to finish my Farsight army. Or find a cheaper hobby.

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    13. I thought GW did play tests of there stuff before they put it in the codex. It seems the higher ups rushed them. ONLY TIME WILL TELL. If the rumors are true then we can be made at them.

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    14. Perhaps the Grey Hunters will gain the option to ADD (not replace their bolter with) a Close Combat weapon for 2 points.

      You know, like Chaos Marines?

      After all, everything Marine related so far tends to use that unit as a baseline for points.

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    15. A gray hunter is nit worth 17 points imo. Besides my biggest issue is that this would be a "manditory" upgrade for any wysiwyg players, as you don't get enough bolters in the kit...

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    16. @Aurgelmir

      So I take it that a unit with Counter Attack, CCW, Bolter, Bolt Pistol/True Grit, grenades should just be 15 points a pop?

      Exit to your right, have some Canis Helix flavored Skittles! Can you please tell me what is balanced about that combination for that points cost? Essentially, you'd be running into the SAME EXACT ISSUE THAT WE HAD IN 5TH! Y'know, being so god damn versatile compared to Codex Marines that there's almost no POINT to taking Codex Marines?

      Just a thought.

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    17. So chapter tactics that other armies get for free, we should pay extra because our codex use to be top tier?

      So becasue white scar bikes cost the same as ultra bikes, but are way better, we should make them pay 5 points more so we don't hurt the smurf's feelings?

      We excel at boots on the ground, other chapters at moving fast or hitting hard. Half of our infantry units are ws3 bs3, so there has to be some give. Why do we have to get the chop because other armies troops lack a ccw. Its has been two editions of the shooting phase, so lets crap on another assualt strong army by nickle and diming them to be a bit better at cc.

      You forget they have units we don't, gear we don't, better characters at a cheaper price, but we should pay more because we are versital. I agree that having all three weapons and counter attack is strong at 15 points, but acute sense, while fluffy, doesn't do much for the appeal of SW unless they add a bunch of ways to outflank. If those rules make up our chapter tactics, then one of them is almost completely wasted on most units.

      There is a lot of give and take with these new releases as with any game that evolves, its just hard to stomach when you feel like its more take then give.

      Sorry if I sound testy avis, its been a long day and I don't mean to be a jerk.

      As with any book, I will reserve judgement untill I have the book in had, but these rumors fill me with doubt.

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  9. Well this could be good but will have to wait and see.

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    1. I don't see this as good in any fashion if it's true. Getting access to a Flyer and AA will not make up for gutting the way WG work or totally nerfing GHs. Doing the math on this means you just got GHs that are worse AND cost more to run as a pack. They would have to seriously lower the cost of a lot of things to make up for that. This makes me think that GW, as normal, is stuck on what units and the army used to do (like in 5th Edition) as opposed to what they are currently doing

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    2. Ah you are right in the 3rd ed codex they were able to drop the bolt pistol for a bolter but i was sure in the 2nd ed book they had all three but i cant find my copy anymore to check. I would be happy to pay to keep the full loadout tbh as i do find it good but tbh GW will be wanting us to all buy some new stupid assault marines box so it would make sense to nerf GH's.

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    3. We dont know the full codex my friend so dont breath fire yet. I ment good as in the rest of the changes. I do admit the nerf to Grey Hunters is hard but if you didn't see it coming then you needed to look harder mate.

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    4. I knew something was coming to nerf them a bit, but this is extreme and for various reasons I posted below I don't believe it is true actually. Some of it I am sure, but all of this I doubt.

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    5. As for hoping the nerf to GH is false, all these rumors line up with how they are set in the stormclaw box. I don't see why GW would give GH strange stormclaw rules, then change them up for the codex.

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  10. I wish GH could just purchase a chain sword for one additional point a la Chaos Marines. On the flip side BC models can now double as assault orientated GH in a pinch, although fluff wise the majority of my BC are ginger and the majority of my GH are grey. The increase from 15 to 20 does nothing for my BC, being 15 plus a Wolf Priest in a crusader OR if rumours prove to be true, in the new flyer perhaps.

    I'll stand up and be counted on GH being too 'master of all trades' compared to contemporary troop choices but I rather pay an additional point or two for their current load out whilst having the vanilla load out as standard... one or the other detracts from their coolness for me. Then again I'm all about the casual game, perhaps the repercussions for tournament play are beyond my comprehension?

    Elated for the new flyer. Deflated for the above if it proves to be true... Bring on the Codex, for better or worse!

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    1. I dunno, those doctrines and other bonuses given to the regular SM are pretty dang good. Hard to point an exact price tag on them... but even just having a 6+ FNP is (in my eyes) is about 2 points worth.

      If they GH are costed the same without discounts in other areas, and now lose the versatility they offered before, I actually view that as quite the hit with a nerf bat.

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    2. CSM CCW are 2PPM.

      If you look at CSM Base + 2ppm for CCW and 2PPM for MoK = 17 points, and a GH with CCW = 17ppm, GH still seem better due to ATSKNF.

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    3. The CSM comparisons on this page are getting to be a little too numerous. GW took a massive dump on the CSMs, so comparing anything to them is kind of silly. I mean they could nerf the space wolves a lot, but I hope they won't.

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    4. Space Wolves practically ARE CSM.

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    5. That's just his justification for running his CSM as "counts as" with Space Wolf rules.

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    6. Thanks Thor, not kept up with my Chaos for some time :)

      I wonder how many of us would take GH at 18ppm for BG, BP & CCW or 15ppm for BG & BP / BP & CCW. Now I've had some time to think on it I guess I'm guilty of using my GH as a reactionary unit (read: figure out what I need them to do once they're on the board) so perhaps this will force me to give my troops some real focus... My GH are all two handed BG so I can, (at some expense add BP to their legs via the TWC set - would be nice if they made this sculpt available, doubtful).

      My main concern is the 10 man WG combi-plasma squad with CCW as modelled, (paid £1.50 per combi-plasma off eBay if memory serves - won't be taking anyone tell me WYSIWYG after GW made it so damn difficult to obtain). Here's hoping they're still 18ppm and can take a Drop Pod as DT!

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    7. Your not the only one who used to use his Grey Hunters as a reactionary unit. Thats what made the brilliant. But if this is GWs way of bringing in the Vlka Fenryka with the rest of the codexs to help the game run more smoothly I say rock on fellas.

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    8. Ulthane. Looking at the 4th and 5th edition Codex for CSM and SW, having bolter, bolt pistol and chainsword was standard. As was having two special weapons and no combat squad ability.

      Ignore the people that say not having a heavy weapon in a GH pack is a disadvantage compared to CSM.

      Without combat squadding, a single heavy weapon in a 10 man squad means you just gave up the flexibility of the squad by anchoring it to one point so your heavy weapon can fire effectively.

      Two special weapons lets you keep the mobility and dtill be effective, and 7th has brought back the viability of the rhino as a temporary bunker to protect your guys from small arms fire.

      I dont generally run anything as counts as, but if you wrre going to run CSM out of a loyalist book, Space Wolves are going to be the best option to represent a renegade faction that hasnt fully gone to chaos yet imo.

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    9. I gathered that after I posted the comment lol. Do Skyrars Dark Wolves.

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    10. Yes a GH may be better then a CSM at 17 ppm, but they can also take icons and marks to make them better. Atsknf is indeed the bee's knees, but it's the price you pay for leaving the Allfathers graces.

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  11. I hope this is wrong, because it will jump the cost of your 'normal' GH pack quite a bit, not to mention losing the BP, Chain, Boltgun combo will mean remodeling a ton of my stuff. It is enough for me to seriously think about dumping them. I would hate to do that but tearing apart 50 painted GH models does not appeal to me. I would be ok if you have to pay a point to keep the combo but forcing you to play one or the other is pretty dumb imo.

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    1. Well just tell your opponent before the game starts that your models are equiped with pistol/cc/bolter?

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    2. Yeah, I was thinking about that but then I realized something I posted below. Makes me think the rumor is wrong somehow.

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    3. Relative to other Tac equivalent units...they really should be bumped up a bit. A CSM kitted to the same standard as a current GH unit is 2ppm more, and pays more for "sergeant equivalent" upgrade gear, and lacks ATSKNF. Normal Tac's lack even the option to be kitted so.

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  12. Ok, the more I think about this the more I think it is garbage based on one thing. Most of the Boltguns in a Space Wolf box are modeled as one-handed weapons as opposed to a SM box where they are 2 handed. So, if I read this right..you can either have BP and Chain..or BP and Bolter..but NO BG and Chain..right? So we are supposed to believe that the models in the box are now obsolete based on this load-out? Unless people are supposed to equip them with BP and Boltgun, both one-handed (and even that isn't possible since the majority of both weapons are in the same hand).
    Correct me if I'm wrong on this but I was just looking at my GHs and the sprues and I can't see them invalidating whole boxes...they must take into account something like this.

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    1. I would hope so but GW do crazy things as it is.

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    2. Concur, the modeling makes no sense and Stormclaw has regular sprues that have been in use for awhile. But as Allslayer puts it best, GW does crazy things from time to time.

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    3. They'll probably throw in a sprue of bolters + arms, if the rumors are true. It wouldn't be hard to do.

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    4. I am guessing something was missed here, it would make sense if the loadout is BG, BP AND CCW and the chainsword is considered an upgrade/swap for it's AP value. If that is the case then it is basically the same load out as now, with an option. The rumor doesn't mention CCW so that is the problem as it stands.

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    5. Another possibility is they could bring back True Grit.

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    6. See now this is exactly why I think this is BS. Why would they invalidate their own kits. It has to be that they can take Bolter and CCW because you can't just add the arm with the 1H bolter and then what? There's no arm to replace the CCW. They will probably add a rule where they can buy it. There has to be. Like the Carcharodons where they can buy it for 1 pt per model.

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    7. Look again, the Space Wolf Pack box includes pistol arms, chainsword Arms, and Bolter arm pairs with seperate bolters.

      Since the pack is designed to do Blood Claws, Grey Hunters, or Wolf Guard, there is nothing invalid in the box. Just you can build dudesmen wrong.

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    8. Not enough Boltguns with paired arms in it..which was my whole point. Most of the Boltguns are one-handed. I looked before I posted. Many of those Boltguns can't be modeled to have both hands the way they are designed. So the other hand has what in it?...mine have chainswords which was the way the kit was designed. I have a few GHs with a 2-handed BG build, although most of the '2nd hand' were used on Special Weapons. Rest either have 1-handed BG with Chainsword or a pistol with Chainsword to represent thier full load out.

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    9. Now, can you kit bash with regular marines..of course you can. I have already done that along with a lot of various FW models. Am I going to remodel and repaint my GHs?..not a damn chance.

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    10. Yeah I just built 40 power armor guys and very few of them did I actually give them just the boltgun. A lot of them have Boltgun, chainsword because like 4 of the bolters you can't add the 2nd hand that holds the grip they're held with 1 arm pointed outward. Sure there are some but not enough to make a full 10 man squad and we shouldn't HAVE to kitbash. If you buy a box of Death Company (which also choose between bolter or chainsword/BP) It includes enough arms to make 5 of either. It also includes regular backpacks and jump packs.

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    11. I think we might be looking at an FAQ amendment to this problem, if it shows up in the codex you can just email the crap out of them to wonder why or ask

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    12. "Correct me if I'm wrong on this but I was just looking at my GHs and the sprues and I can't see them invalidating whole boxes..."

      Well if you get the "bolter + sword" option then the Gray hunter kit would be no different from the Terminator set: Not enough bits for the core item load out (only one power weapon)...

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    13. The Grey Hunter box set has power weapons up the yang. Wolf Claws, power fists, power axes, power swords, Thunderhammers. It only has plasma guns as for special weapons though. But it doesn't have enough arms to make 10 guys with bolters, or 10 guys with bolt pistol chainsword. And the Terminator kit has 1 power sword, 1 power axe and 4 thunder hammers.

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  13. 100% Longfangs will have access to flakk missles, 100% Pissed my wolfguard got neutered, they better get graviton or centuriun upgrades or we might have gone from spock to lizard real quick

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    1. If the nerf bat hits us as hard as the rumours lead us to believe, Space Sharks and Black Templars would be better options for us to proxy. Separating Wolf Guard into different entries based on armour type takes away alot of the versatility of Wolf Guard.

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    2. Yeah, based on this WG just turned into normal sergeants, Terminators and Sternguard/Vanguard without half the benefits that those SM units have (cost, ammo, etc). They better have a bunch of rules and different costing if they are to be fielded. This is just one rumor though and I refrain from getting totally pissed off until we see if it's true and what the other synergies are in the Codex.

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    3. Looking at their current performance on only having things in the codex that have a model this splitting of terminators and power armour might be true as they are in separate boxes. A small thing but a thing nonetheless.

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    5. Dark Angels veterans are exactly like these rumored Power Armor Wolfguard squads.

      Sounds plausible to me...hopefully the SW dex actually has all the options instead of needing a half page errata to make the squad good lol

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    6. ask yourself how many other army's have been nerfed before, now ask yourself why you feel like a special snowflake? because orks, chaos, nids, black templars, DA, snd a few others. don't get why you are upset with losing options, gaining new ones and getting a good nerfing to boot. did you not expect this to happen? now you understand the above mentioned factions when they got nerfed.

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    7. Its more the change to the structure of the wolfguard, having a unit led by a termi guard was what made the guard so flavorful, i know for certain they had their point cost reduced just unsure what all was discarded to justify the reduction. My next army was going to be a DA death/ravenwing strike force but after hearing all the qq about their dex being poop(i have the da dex and don't see what's so terrible) but wondering if maybe an ork horfe or tau cadre might be a better option? Also with dark eldar this fall and blood angels for xmas i might hold off and just max out my wolf company, plus i want to build and paint an imperial knight. I do commission paint jobs if anyone wants a very nice almost 'eavy metal unit/squad/mob/character or whole army lets link up and ill show you what i can do :)

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    8. Nightfury you are assuming that the upgraded wolf guard will not have the option for TDA. It says "with access to wargear" whose to say TDA won't be an option?

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  14. IF these rumors are true (big IF IMHO) than I don't think I'd be too upset about most of these changes. For Grey Hunters, the changes would allow them to specialize more in one role for shooting (2 plas gun and 2 plas pistol, yes please!) or more assault focused. And I would no longer have to make the choice between getting a second free special weapon or adding a WG while still keeping unit size at 10 for Rhinos or Drop Pods. Nerf bat is fairly forgiving here, although need more info on standards to make judgements about Grey Hunter assault loadout.

    For Blood Claws, just yes to everything mentioned above. Rage+counterattack = Happy.

    Hopefully the separation of Wolf Guard in PA and Wolf Guard in TDA will bring down point costs for WG all around, because they're just too expensive as the are now. I'm excited if taking WG as a unit is true, I have been getting tired of WG taking one of my elite slots only to be put into my troops.

    Oh and the previous info about the new flyer being a cheaper and faster moving alternate assault vehicle as compared to a Land Raider is awesome! Put the assaulty GH and BC in the new flyer with Wolf Priests or biomancy'd Rune Priests, and the shooty GH in a drop pod and watch as your enemy scrambles to change their battle plan!!

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    1. I do like some of the new rumors and hope some are wrong. The Bloodclaw rumors are fantastic, although they pretty much have rage already with berserk charge, unless you mean rage and counter-attack combo which they unfortunately do not. I hope the GH rumors aren't true but they probably will be. It would be nice if they were 14 points and you could get a ccw for another point or two. Or be 14 points and just swap the bolter for ccw for free.

      The biggest change we need is cheaper upgrades on pretty much everything and cheaper characters/ICs. Logan needs to have 4 wounds with the update since he is our equivalent to a chapter master. Njal needs 3 wounds, and to be cheaper as well. I would like to use Bjorn more often but he needs to be more survivable.

      I'm not sure how I feel about the wolf guard rumors, although having them as just an upgrade now for GHs so you can get the 2 special weapons is nice. I do like the sound of the Stormclaw so far, it would be nice to get a good flyer that isn't forgeworld. I like forgeworld but a lot of the tournaments I go to don't allow those models. A lot of places are starting to accept them more though.

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  15. "it specifies that it must also be represented on the model."

    So stupid. Players are either going to play WYSIWYG or not, don't write that nonsense into the rules.

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    1. Its so you buy twice as many boxes to model both permutations.

      GW aren't stupid... when they want to be. (",)

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    2. makes sense. thats what they did with orks. used to have almost 20 man fantasy boxed sets, you could techically with spare bits or one 40k ork kit get almost 3-4 times that you can today, the relevancy is that what Rixus mentioned above. it is wise to not undercut when you can mark up and have people still purchase. adding points and reducing numbers per box means you buy more

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    3. I have to admit ive always ignored that rules.

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  16. Also, what of psychic powers?

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  17. Taken with a salt pillar. this would mean half the current SW armies will get invalidated.

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    Replies
    1. Not only would they get invalidated, but GW would not make additional profit cause people would either ignore the rule or remodel from extra bits they have from the sprue. And I do not know about everyone else, but I have a TON of bits!

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    2. All my Grey Hunters are modeled with BP, Bolter and CCW. If the rules change, as rumoured, I'll be very sad.

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    3. Which will be unique...why?

      Have you *seen* what GW has does with Chaos marines in the last decade?

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    4. how many shed a tear when other factions got nerfed that don't play that faction? if i recall many were going "quit crying" or something along those lines, and that "other factions" [looking at you DA, Chaos, Nids, Orks] "got a good rogering by the nerf bat" ......something to that extent.....if true it's your turn to take one for your faction [team].....or be like the many who later regret selling their armies when they later calm down and realize the sky hasn't fallen and want to play that army.......happens almost every release.....

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    5. +1 Xeno and I wonder how many of them did so before the codex even dropped. If they want to be like that I say good riddance.

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    6. Through the good and the bad you always stand with you pack brothers.

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  18. Hi all, I have a copy of stormclaw in front of me, and everything that he has written ties in, including points cost etc.

    Grey Hunters: power armour, bolt pistol, Frag and krak (no second CC weapon), special rules: acute senses, ATSKNF, counter-attack (five man squad with 1x power axe, 1x plasma pistol and chainsword (but no bolter), 1x plasma gun, 2x normal for 125 points
    Blood Claws: bolt pistol plus CC weapon, special rules: acute senses, ATSKNF, counter-attack, rage.

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  19. LOL - nerfed and thrown the Formation card to compensate which are disallowed in many tournaments. Welcome to the Tyranid experience, Space Wolves.

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  20. If these rumors are true (and they do seem logical), I would not worry about the modeling rule. Nobody has ever given a shit about that sort of rule, even in tournaments.

    Now Grey Hunters coming in line with every other freaking marine sounds a hell of a lot better. Counter Attack, Acute Senses, access to 2 specials all seem in line with being 15 points. Don't discount Acute Senses so much. Bloodclaws seem more feasible now.

    As always, play the whole codex before judging. There could be some nice warlord traits and psychic powers. That flyer has got some stupid good firepower but we have to see what the points come out to be.

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    Replies
    1. Counterattack and Acute Senses at 15 points vs Chapter Tactics for 14? That's a nerf. The two special weapons is handy, but is a wash versus not having access to heavies. And whee, two over priced plasma pistols.

      I'll be happy to see Blood Claws get the price break, and can see where they want to have more differentiation between GH and BC - either you have the bolters, or you are higher skill assault marines, but not the best of all worlds that GH currently enjoy - but they could accomplish that with a 3 point spread between a BC and a tri-weapon GH.

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    2. Yes, there are still a lot of things we have not seen. While I was originally a little upset, now I feel that we will just have to give grey hunters a role to play, instead of being able to do everything. From the looks of it, we could have 2 plasma guns and 2 plasma pistols in each unit, pretty devistating.

      As you said, we still havent seen our powers, additional units, and what our uniques were changed too. TWC, Long wolves, possible dreadnought variants, flier, choosing our warlord traits.

      There is a lot left to see, considering that we kept acute senses, I am hoping we get a lot of choices for outflank. SW "trick" might be outflanking via wolf priests or warlord traits.

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    3. Not forgetting that SW can have power weapons of various flavours in a squad without it being a Sargent who can be challenged is a bonus. Counter attack is a powerful bonus as well so 15 points a guy isn't so bad. Not putting me off the wolves as an army anyway. Grey hunters were a little too good before so this does bring them back in line a bit and will make blood claws a viable unit to bulk out the force as well. Most lists I've seen where all hunters and no claws in sight. Personally I'd be looking at 2 of each with hunters in pods and the claws either in rhinos or running up depending on what I'd be up against

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    4. Counter-attack is huge for a marine army. It lets you play defensively and take advantage of overwatch while doubleing your attacks when charged. 50% more if you have CCW and BP.

      In all the games I have played against SW, counterattack has proven to be very effective.

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    5. Agreed. Counter-attack is a great ability. Acute senses is just fluffy and something extra but still really good in the right situation.

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    6. Especially now that it no longer requires a leadership tests.

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  21. Sorry for stupid question: if Logan and Bjorn will be counted as Lord(s) of War they cannot be used in normal games? (By normal i mean "without Escalation?") TY

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    1. Combined arms detachment gives you a lord of war slot so that you could take either of them in a standard game from my understanding

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    2. Ah, yes, found that in BRB. TY Kenny.

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  22. Dark Angels to Space Wolves: See you at the pub, drowning out our sorrows with lots of ale. Hope is the beginning of feeling the nerf bat.

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    Replies
    1. agreed.....i had to drop 40k after about the 3rd terrible DA codex in a row. GW got me again....fool me once shame on you, fool me twice......

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    2. Dark Angels aren't terrible, if you ignore the stupid fliers.

      Ever got on the receiving end of Ravenwing Knights without redeemers/heldrakes?

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  23. Being able to have the Pack Leader, along with two special weapons and a plasma pistol is a small price to pay for having the WGTermies and WG in power armor split up. Here is hoping that they are a mirror of the Chaos Space Marines and the CCW is +1 point/model.

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    1. If they were a mirror then the ccw would be 2 points

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    2. I think people are forgetting that basic CSM are 13pts each.

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  24. Yeah I will be happy to pay the points, tbh the Sunday before the Ork dex landed was full of peeps saying that Orks had lost Furious Charge and look how that panned out, we are in the dark right now so it's salt, salt, salt.

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  25. So hopefully the WG Packleader has the option to take Terminator armor still. That was one of the coolest things about splitting off WG to lead packs.

    Also, these rumors will allow you to have 9 GH plus a WG in a Rhino and still get the second special weapon (old codex you had to have 10 GH, and adding a WG would prevent the squad from using the Rhino.

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  26. People realize the Wolf Guard purchased as a unit and split up is really no different than just including one as an upgrade to a unit, right? Only this way, it doesn't eat up an Elites slot to put a character in a unit. This is actually better.

    If you want, you can even paint/pretend your little squad leader came from an elite Wolf Guard unit with a narrative before each game.

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    Replies
    1. It's mainly the likely lack of terminator armour that bothers people. I know plenty will miss adding in Cyclone armed Wolf Guard to Long Fang squads.

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    2. I don't know actually. If you pay 10 points on top of the 15 base then a barebones WG just went up 7 points and you lost the potential of running 11 guys per squad. I know they won't fit in most transports but it was an option for footsloggers.
      I don't know many Wolf players that ever ran out of Elites slots, it was a pretty weak slot unless you wanted to run multiple Lone Wolves or loved Dreads.
      We will have to see how the whole thing pans out of course.

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    3. I'm with you on this Mcdoogle I have been hoping for this for a long time. I've been a SW player since 1999 and I always ran out of elite slots, wolf scouts were very handy back before outflank changed it up a bit. But everyone speaks about how these rumors will change the way you play the army but in truth until the codex drops we don't know shit. It may not be upgrade a GH or BC to WG it may be add a WG for x points so you may still get to 11 guys or 16 guys or whatever just saying don't get your panties in bunch until the codex is in your hands.

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    4. Do your panties bunch on you?..cause I've never worn them. The way it was written was pretty clear and that is what the comments were based on..nothing more and nothing less.

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    5. Thongs tend to do that and the wolf fur ones I wear chafe pretty bad too. I was just saying that everyone is commenting as if they have already seen the new codex and there is no reason to speculate rules or tactics until we actually can read it.

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    6. lol..I know on the speculation. I honestly don't even care about the rules, points, etc. until I see the whole thing. I do care if a bunch of years of modeling and painting GHs get's screwed up since I really try to be accurate in my modeling.

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    7. That'll be my one gripe if it is true. But I have a ton of space wolves and it was my first army so I have units spanning my entire progression of painting skill. I have been talking about stripping them all and re painting/sculpting them. This will just give me more reason to do so.

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    8. The thing is that GW doesn't think things through, they are going to have players taking there models apart and have them put pins in them. If they are not careful they are going to see a major drop in sales of either the new codex, models or both.

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    9. no GW has thought things though just like Tzeentch, thy operate in mysterious and oftens silly ways but you'd be daft to consider they don't know what they are doing.

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  27. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  28. You know guys, there was a time not so very long ago when you would only see two kinds of armies at a tournament: Grey Knights or Space Wolves. To think they wouldn't be toned down in their next incarnation is just foolish. Nearly every pre-existing unit in every codex published since 6th edition has been nerfed or gotten more expensive (or both). The players of each army have done nothing but complain when "their codex" came out.

    Personally, I think things are getting more fun as time goes by. I can say this with better perspective thab most. I started playing in 1st edition. My first models were Rogue Trader boxed set 1, and I can remember having to roll randomly for your special and heavy weapons.

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    1. This is something i've keenly noticed, but from a negative perspective as opposed to your suggested positive.

      I've only been playing since 6th ed. and every codex i've eagerly been waiting for has disappointed me in some way - between nerfs and changes i end up seeking the paperback codices second-hand.

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    2. It almost puts me off starting new armies and buying the new codices. I really love the Necrons after playing Dark Crusade and reading their 5th ed codex - i just know i'm going to be disappointed in some way or two when they get a hardback for 7th.

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    3. I must agree that the background changes to the necrons were a step in the wrong direction. They were much more scary in their first codex. However, I think you would be hard pressed to find too many players out there that think the Necron air force is a disappointment functionally. Given the reign of terror they have had over the last several years, is it really unfair to expect them to get toned down a bit in their next revision?

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    4. Not really, if they were written for 6th ed in mind...

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  29. That was a very nicely written rumor. Very clear. If anything I like how this rumor person presented their information with detail and not leaving much room for people to fill in gaps incorrectly.

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    1. I agree. Which, combined with everything else we know, adds to my belief that there is no need for salt this time round. (",)

      I know its hard for you veteran SW players, but all i can say is: "Welcome to my complete experience with GW folks".

      Instead of thinking all these codices are being nerfed individually we have to realise that, when compared together, they're all being toned down together and brought in line with each other.

      You may think your codex is garbage but if i'm positive i'd say that people are used to having a strong/op codex and now have to "suffer" being regular like everyone else. I'm sure once a few games have been played you'll like it - the SM codex is awesome and i think they're evening it up in line with that.

      ps. And at least you're getting the new AA and a flyer that devastates - DA got none of that... no centurions, no grav, no AA, no nothing.

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    2. Perhaps rather than grav guns and the like SW will get man portable Hell Frost weapons. That would be awesome!!

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    3. That would be awesome but they would have to do an upgrade sprue or something to make that option available to all the various units. Which would be a good excuse to make more wolfy tank parts and the like.

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    4. I wouldn't say the individual books are being brought in line with each other. CSM has one real AA choice: an autocannon heldrake. Which is not exactly on par with most armies. CSM's effective units are costly, and their resilience is vastly overstated when you consider the firepower available to nearly every army with a 6th ed or newer book.
      The other end of the spectrum is IG, Tau, and Eldar - all of which can win games in turn 1. This isn't the place to get into further detail.. but I think most players would have to agree that there are good books, and bad books.

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    5. sure each has good or bad but they aren't all good or all bad. and bringing things into something which resembles balance among the PA armies then it makes things more "fair".....sure you lose out on something, but which codex hasn't?

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    6. They were the first few codices where they were obviously fine-tuning, but everything after Tau and Eldar (was it SM?) seems to be getting lowered together. Or put it this way - There's never been an op codex since taudar...

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  30. A little off topic but I was just browsing the US GW web store to see if there were any clues to what may be ahead for Space Wolves I noticed something interesting. All the generic SM kits that SW use have been removed from the SW section of the web store. I don't know what that might indicate but I am hoping that it means new SW specific boxes for everything except the tanks. Just thought I would share my observation.

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    1. I just looked at it as well and the generic kits used by DA and BA aren't within their relevant sections either. So this probably indicates nothing important. Though if it does the absence in the BA section can be explained by the obvious fact that the BA codex is on the way down the road. But the DA is what throws it out for me.

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    2. Ah I see what you mean. Damn lol I thought I was on to something.

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    3. It has been like that since the new websites went live.

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  31. I wouldn't be surprised if GW did this, but really no Boler/pistol/sword option for gray hunters!?!?! Does GW not KNOW whats in their kits? There is what 2 or 4 bolter only options in the Gray Hunter kit, the rest are designed to be bolter + Chainsword.

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    Replies
    1. The Space Wolf kit covers Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, and Wolf Guard. As the Sanctus Reach set showed, you can build them half and half.

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  32. I hear of lot of voices screaming 'nerf'. As they did with the previous 40k release, and the one before that, and before that, ad infinitum. It's entirely possible that the game is slowly being rebalanced at a lower level.

    But then, I just play for fun so it's no big deal even if my army does get weaker rules!

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    Replies
    1. The funny thing is that when GW balances units in the game people scream "Nerf" and when they over-power a new unit the same people scream "Codex creep!"

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  33. Whiners....whiners everywhere....

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