Leaks for 7th Edition and Valhalla Guest This Year


There are now leaks all over the place confirming the information we were talking about earlier with the Battle Forged and Unbound ways of playing in the revised edition of 40k. Of course we have a new Psychic phase, as well as new missions to create a more dynamic tabletop.


Someone left leaks in the comment sections on Pins of War, and they can also be found in many other places online now. These are originally from Image Shack.
http://pinsofwar.com/unbound-building-armies-in-warhammer-40k-7th-edition/
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-40ks-new-edition-details-leaked.html


Valhalla Update
This year is going to be a fun lists of guests up in the Utah Mountains with such personalities as Gamer Girl, David Lewis of Dropzone Commander, representitives from Corvus Belli, Reecius from Frontline Gaming, and of course myself. There will be lots of games going this year, and we will be talking shop with everyone.

We are not yet at the lodge, but we are in route, awaiting the last guests today, as we load the shuttle. The new location is about 3 1/2 hours south of Salt Lake City or 2 1/2 hours  north of Vegas out in the Utah Wilderness. I will be bringing pictures to the site tomorrow.

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159 Comments

  1. 26 Obliteraters.... Each its own unit....

    Sorry I thought this was a continuation of "list the most ridiculous armies you can now legally play"

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    1. No FOC also means no Codex / ally restrictions.

      So add the best from all dexes.

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    2. Thats not true. The white dwarf leak describing unbound specifically mentioned allies matrix was still in effect.

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    3. You don't need the best of every codex when literally one of the best models in the game is the Obliterator.

      20+ oblits at T5 with 2 wounds, 2+/5++ that can choose any useful marine weapon individually... 5 Riptides may be good, but they're not kill-20-individual-squads good.

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    4. Yeah but then you shoot strength 10 weapons at them and they die easily or charge them with a crappy unit and beat them in combat because they can't overwatch and strike last and then they fall back because they ain't fearless

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    5. Not to mention you can't use the same weapon over and over again

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    6. And when you no doubt murder that single obliterator in you're assault phase you'll have 20+ more angry ones to shoot you in their shooting phase! Fun thoughts but likely a terrible army build

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    7. How about my 40 squads of lootas?

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    8. It's funny how when people read new rules rumors, they instantly try to create some super cheesy lame list to exploit is as much as possible, then lament the lack of game balance.

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    9. In addition, no FOC does not necessarily mean that everything in your army is scoring. You'll need to win those missions somehow.

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    10. You also should consider that the mission objetive changes each turn with that 36 card deck, so if i turns to be "heavy units are scoring but give one VP" (or whatver obliteraters are) than you have LOST. He just needs to kill 6-8 of your 26 Guys and und will have a reall hard time recovering form that

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    11. Joseph, you are missing the point entirely. People are looking at the rules and saying 'wait a minute.... you mean this pile of cheese here is going to be a legal army.... sheesh, tournament play is going to be a chore if all this is allowed.'
      It's like the NFL changing the rules so that teams with red uniforms get double points for scoring touchdowns. Teams and players will scream bloody murder about the rule, but all of them will have red uniforms for the next game. And all of them will want the rule removed.

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    12. Thank you Karvala for seeing my point.

      I didn't mention the oblits scenario because it is something I will do. I mentioned it because it CAN be done, which yes, is a testament to lack of balance.

      A well balanced game should not ALLOW for something like this. No one should put the onus of game balance on the players. I don't remember getting paid to write rules from GW.

      Delete
    13. I'm pretty sure nobody has ever believed that 40k has ever been balanced.

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    14. What's to stop a TO banning Unbound lists?

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    15. i'm sorry i've been an avid supporter and took everything in my stride as a kind of laugh and joke (its all a bit of fun) (i'm a really casual gamer) but i thought this was a joke. i like balance, a game i can win or lose based on the players (mostly), this on its own looks to me as a game breaker for me personally and i have never said that before.
      if this is the case i really hope theres more to it then just this because i get that 40k is not meant to be competitive and i never played it competitively but this sounds like a complete abandonment of balance in the games rules which will just kill the game for me. games are relaxed affairs for me but this just sounds like a mistake.
      My example i belong to a casual rugby group who just meet up for fun to play games now and again for fun, we're trying to beat the other team but its really just for fun. This is like instead of playing a game all my group would do is pass a ball back and forth amongst themselves with no purpose, which i understand some may enjoy but not me.

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    16. 26 oblits...and then you lose the game because you couldn't score any objective points.

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    17. Except that you scored a bunch during the game from trading around your mission objective cards you were drawing until you got the 'kill something' missions and scored those.

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    18. Except your opponent was wiped off the board completely by your 26 oblits, 8 Daemon princes, 15 missile sides, or 8 Heldrakes, so you no longer care about scoring objectives and instead turn the game into a rock/paper/scissor arms race of who can buy and spam the most models on the board.

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    19. I think you're all being a bit extreme.

      What you're describing is an "Unbound" list, which is only half the picture. We need to see the complete picture to understand how Unbound lists interact with Battle-forged lists. If the last 18 months have taught us anything, it's that we never know the whole picture until a book (BRB or codex, etc) drops and we've had some time to read the whole thing, digest it, and get some games in.

      GW are intentionally leaving a LOT of details out of what is essentially a one page editorial by Jes Bickham. We'll probably get a few more insights in the next week's WD, but there will be a lot of holes and unanswered questions until the new BRB hits the stores and we've all had a chance to read it thru at least once...

      Don't panic, and don't forget your towels... :-)

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    20. I'm willing to bet there's plenty we haven't seen yet, and that "unbound" is not simply "Apoc under 3000 points."

      Delete
  2. Replies
    1. Or 12 Bloodthirsters..... or something like it.

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  3. Horus heresy is meant to be played within its own sphere however it does say the books can be used in normal 40k, so just use all the primarch's

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    1. Does it? Even more reason for Night Lords!

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    2. This was the first thing I was wondering about. I'm dying to use a primarch in vanilla 40K...

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    3. Not quite. Each Primarch is a Lord of War and may not take up more than 25% of your total army points.

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    4. pre heresy and post heresy armies? if so lol HA HA HA HA

      if not then ok it's good

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    5. If your playing be vanilla 40k low rules then there is no 25% so you can use them, unless that's part of the unbound armies

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    6. Isn't the allies matrix (or a newer version of) still in effect? If so, Heresy armies have a separate one all to themselves in the Betrayal book. Versus is fun but I can't see allying in.

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  4. Daemonology sounds cool. Might finally see some conjuration powers.

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    1. I'm lamenting seeing a SM WAAC player summoning some daemons...

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    2. It's likely not as much summoning as a damage to them. Demons might get powers to summon while Marines can use powers to banish...

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  5. 300+ orks led by Ghaz in a 2000pt list lol

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    1. No problem is too big when you can just throw boys at it

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    2. Yes you could. If you have some sort of masochistic wish to move 300 boys every turn.

      Delete
  6. I'm interested, all depends on what you gain for sticking with the FOC. I can imagine many tournaments will say FOC armies only, and there's nothing wrong with that. I like the psychic phase, getting a psychic charge per mastery level could give Nids and Grey Knights an interesting new angle with a more prominent psychic presence on the board.

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    1. Sure
      But what this does is make 2 Kind of Games. 40ridcules and 40modest!
      So now you have more Problems finding a opponent.

      Also it slow kills tournaments off. Expect ESC styl units to still be banned after 7th. Its Bad to split the Community into 2 camps and to give TOs a hard Time.
      Its stupid GW beeing greedy to sell bigger and more models! And they dont care about the game. Why should we support that then?
      I am not looking forward to fork out money for a game that is ruleing standart things via random dice roll or via agree before every game with opponent.
      Poor choice by GW!

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    2. Then do yourself and everyone else here a favor, seb: QUIT! And go away ~forever~.

      Note to everyone else: Do what you want, but the sky is not falling. Wait until you see ~all~ the rules, then (suggestion) play a few games with them (I'm sure someone you know will have bought The Rules and let you read them before you decide), and then decide.

      Personally, I think it's all rather grand. Don't really care about the Psychic Phase, and don't play in tournaments, but expect that TOs will likely run "Battle-forged Only" events more than they run "Unbound" events, which should make the tournament players a little happier... Depends on the other rules changes, which we haven't seen yet...

      (Go away, seb... Pretty please...)

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    3. aye because driving more and more people away from the game is good isnt it jdwelch62.

      good luck playing with your little soldiers and forking out for rules constanntly

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    4. Thank you! I'm sure my friends and I will be enjoying ourselves tremendously with all the new options and variations and missions that will be available to us.

      How is this any different than video game players shelling out $60+ a year for the latest version of "Madden", or "NBA"? Oh, right, it's not... LOL!

      8^P

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    5. Problem if you only play FoC:
      Some armies aren't that competitive today, because of restrictions in the FoC. Sacreficing the FoC bonus for the freedom of having only Heavy support might be just what that army needs to win.
      Sadly though armies that are good with the FoC limitations might become even better without it...

      To say that this is crazy is silly though. Points costs will still prevent you from going batshit.

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    6. if you fork out 60 every year for the latest edition of madden, cod or whatever then you are an idiot.

      but ignoring that, playing madden doesnt involve learning 50+ pages of rules text

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    7. How dare you play a game that makes you read! What next, they'll make you do math during the game too!?

      Seriously what is the issue, first we don't know the full rules (it could be mandatory HQ + 2 troops and then no restrictions in other categories but even if it's completely open who cares? Is there something out there that will be even more broke than now? I'm pretty sure 4 riptides (maybe even 5) can be in a list at less than 2000 points and even more at higher values, at 1850 you can spam 6 wave serpents and a wraithknight or 6 night scythes and a couple D&D squads, centurion star, beast star, etc all doable. The only real difference this makes is that people may play a little more fluffy and it only hurts armies that played around with force org anyway (looking at you Clan Raukann).

      Here's the good news, stop being douchy and allow D weapons and people won't show up with ridiculous MC spam or Wave Serpent spam because they'll need actual counters vs. cheesy _____star for the win. End of day this is about giving customers freedom to play the game with the models they have and that includes allowing weird combos that aren't quite traditional. A couple years from now when Primarchs and the storyline has advanced people will be wondering what 41st millennium army showed up with only three tanks, two flyers, and a bunch of squishy troops anyway.

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    8. 40k player....dude what are you smoking?

      must be good stuff to issue forth that rant from my statement.

      I mean you've taken a comment on financial cost and implications and started ranting about balance....nice stuff

      Delete
    9. OMG $50-$75 every two years! How ever will I be able to feed myself?! Seriously that is one less video game/night out/dinner/etc... in two years. That is one less starbucks coffee or one less time eating at mcdonalds every two months.

      Also yeah, reading 50+ pages every two years honestly shouldn't be that big of a deal.

      Delete
    10. You shouldn't be going to McDonald's anyway ... :)

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    11. @jd

      Its not fun for me to spend money on bad rules just so GW can sell OP waac lists (& the models) to some kids.

      Its diffrent with Video Games. Becaus they dont become invalidat and you dont need a ton of models to constantly buy, build & paint. Just to try the new options -.-

      Everyone was complaing about 4 helldrakes. You say 9 will be fun?

      Everyone was complaing about reaver titans. Now they will be leagel as per 7th ED BRB!

      Sry but i dont quit share youre fanboyisem. Do i have to stop because i am not gameing as they want me and droping cash?

      I Know armsrace is GW way to insure profits. But its kinda redicules to update 40k before wfb just to "allow" all the dickhead lists. And thats all they are doing. Oh yes all the fun stuff... How could i hate that? Because it kills all the non OP lists. So 90% of my stuff cant be played anymore unless i want to be slapped around. And i am sick of GWs ways of forceing all their BS ideas on everybody. I can play ridicules lists right now and titans as well. I dont need GW to make it leagel to do this without my opponents premision. Its bad Sport! GW doesnt get it. And they are the ones that will stop forever!

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    12. I just don't think it's going to be as bad as you're making out to be, seb. We only know a fraction of the whole picture. They've teased us with what's going to be in this week's WD, but we won't know how Unbound lists will interact with Battle-forged lists until we get and digest the actual rules. You're just looking at it from one perspective, and it is (predictably) the most negative possibilities.

      If you really hate GW so much, then divorce yourself from them and their games, and go live a happy life. But I can't recall the last time you said anything positive about GW or 40K, and it just gets so ~old~, and doesn't constructively contribute to the discussion. It's a constant case of Chicken Little-ism, and it's ~tiresome~...

      And the video game analogy is a perfectly legitimate one. It's an ~analogy~, and as such does not need to be a perfect comparison. My point is, I have friends and relatives (nephews, mostly) who spend more on video games every year than I do on 40K. There's a Game Stop (video game chain here in the USA) right next to my FLGS, and when a hot new game comes out the couch potatoes line up around the block for ~hours~ before the midnight release. It's ridiculous to me, but I've never criticized anyone else's choice of gaming crack, so more power to 'em.

      Point being, I feel like the 40K ~hobby~ is a better use of my time than sitting on my already too fat ass playing video games for hours on end: I get to be creative and constructive in building, converting and painting, and then I get to play with my little toy soldiers on the tabletop. It's also (IMHO) healthier, in that in order to play 40K you have to actually physically interact with your opponent, rather than a video screen. But these guys and gals drop serious coin every year on new titles and rehashed titles. You might call them idiots, daboarder, for buying Madden every year, but they walk by our FLGS and look at us like we're nuts for pushing little plastic army dudes around a 6'X4' table for several hours. Viva la difference! Either way, money gets spent, and the video game set has been pumping even more cash into their games' parent companies by way of DLC long before GW came out with Dataslates.

      If you don't like it so much, why do you stick around and torture yourself, seb? You're just torturing us as we'll in the process. Go find something that brings you joy! 40K is that thing for me, all aspects of it, and if that's fanboyism, so be it. Sure, everyone has the right to state their opinion (reasonably and respectfully to everyone else, or Natfka/Sally will nuke your comment), and I'm a firm believer in constructive criticism, but the key word there is ~constructive~. Some of y'all have nothing constructive to contribute at all, it's just endless bytes of negativism, and that's just poisonous for everyone else who's trying to have a fun, constructive conversation, whether it's critical or positive about whatever change we're currently facing.

      ~That~ was my point. GW is no more "evil" than Coca-Cola, IBM, McDonalds or The Home Depot. They're just a business producing a product and trying to make a buck selling a luxury item that we choose to spend our disposable income on...

      Delete
    13. Er...computer games blatantly DO become invalidated over time, that's what sequels are for.

      How many people still play old Battlefield games like BF2142 (still awesome) compared to BF4? Comparitively sod-all. People drop old games for new ones just like 40k editions, the analogy is perfectly sound.

      Commendable that you're still so civil to Seb (I try!), JD, but he never quite gets the message to either stop playing or just wait and see what happens before lamenting a new release, poorly.

      It's not fanboyism, it's bloody common sense. The product that brings in the most profit will always get the most attention; it's how companies survive. Perfectly logical for GW to update 40k again before Fantasy if it's what's providing most of their sales.

      The sky is always falling...beh.

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    14. Youre value for models & 40k is pur Fan Love.

      Sprues cost pennys to make. Its not a luxury item by definition.

      In contrary to videogames production of a rule book is cheap. They dont need to sell dlcs or a Update every 2 years. After all they sell models not books.

      Their Problems are self created by useing game design to push sales. Its like telling Golf players they now need to use more or diffrent balls.
      If you drive players away to get a few more dollars out of the remaing youre end goal will be no more players.

      As a customer i have to be selfish. Just like GW only looks for what is in their best intresst. More Profit for the most. I have to look for whats best for me.
      And that is keeping my models in use fo
      r as long as possible. Haveing fun playing. Haveing fun building and painting. Ect.
      Its not in my intresst to play vs Waac gamers and not have fun. Spend tons of money on new mandatory books. Spend money & Time painting models i wont use becaus GW nerfs them or turns the meta upsidedown by the Time i finish.
      Its not my task to worrie about GW Profit. Or make excuses for them.

      You guy should stop defending GW. We do support GW enough to be expecting a good game. And the... lets wait or look at 360 or they need to make money... Are just the same old lines that are beeing said every time GW fukc up!
      There is a point to the non hobbiests saying its expensiv, toyssoldiers. Cause it is! And at least we should not have to live with the BS GW gives us again & again!

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    15. You're right it is expensive TOY SOLDIERS. No one is forcing you to buy them, it is by it's very definition a luxury item. All hobbies are. No one forces you to play. And although sprues may cost pennies the moulds for them cost thousands. The process from design to production for a plastic kit is pretty expensive, hence all the dual kits to maximise returns. I wont pretend im happy with everything GW do, some of their practices are awful, but most of what you said is just flat out wrong. Oh and video games INVENTED the concept of DLC. Let's not get into the whole subject of video games vs wargaming cost wise again....

      Delete
    16. @seb12
      Your ignorance astounds me.

      The majority of what you stated there is provably untrue and clearly comes from a biased standpoint of some form of strong dislike for the company, yet you appear to still buy and use their products then go and post inflammatory comments like these.
      Seriously, why?
      If you don't like GW's business practices then sell your existing models and books and leave the hobby to those of us who aren't so blinkered by hatred that they spout complete nonsense on every related post they can find.

      Your idea that model figures & books for a table top war game are not luxury items is laughable, they are by the very definition of the term luxury as they are non essential to life and therefore, as with every other luxury item, are worth what the market will pay for them.

      The sprues do not cost pennies to make, the materials cost pennies but the models themselves have manufacturing, distribution, marketing, employee, retail, design and a number of other costs involved.
      Not to mention the huge investment that GW made into the technology that is unique to them that allows them to produce the fine quality of plastics that are currently available, Formula one team's have even approached them to try to license that tech for crying out loud and those costs need to be recouped.
      They're expensive yes but if you do a like for like comparison with most other companies, taking into account the number of options in the box, the quality of the components, the compatibility with other kits, the detail and so on, GW's kits are in many cases at least on a par with others.

      They don't use game design to push sales, they use well designed miniatures and fluff to push sales.
      It may come as news to you but apart from the main rulebook, a Codex and a small set of minis of your choosing, everything else is optional.
      Don't want to or can't afford to use superheavies? Then don't.
      Don't want to or can't afford to use allies? Then don't.
      Don't want to or can't afford to use fortifications? Then don't.
      The only people who genuinely need to spend more on the products are serious tournament players who need to stay competitive but that is their choice, nobody's forced to play in tournaments and if you go into it expecting to win and not spending a large amount of money then you clearly didn't do your research.

      This new rulebook does not invalidate your models in any way so the only cost to this is in buying the rulebook which will most likely come in a variety of price points in the same way as the current one and if that's even too expensive for you then just use the current rules and wait till they're cheap on eBay.

      Honestly, it's people like you that ruin this hobby for others not GW.
      They're not perfect, they're products aren't cheap and they've made mistakes it's true but they are most certainly not some 'evil', money grabbing company.

      It's your choice, if you don't like them then don't buy their products and leave the hobby, and with your attitude I'd suggest you do just that because it's people like you that make comments and forums like this a real depressing place to frequent when all most people want to do is to be informed and have a nice chat.

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    17. Pfff

      Its GWs Problem to fix their revenue. Maybe less stormravens & landspeeder shroud?
      Luxury item implies there is some worth. Its a collectors item not valuable outside of Fan circles.
      Its a pure ripp off compared to other toy makers. If you compare to TT Industrie its saying nothing cause GW sets the bar for others & we also pay more for some Kits that have less sprues than cheaper Kits.

      You dont really have Free choice of going with 7th or not. Future dexes wont Work with 6th and youre local fellow players (youre opponents) will have a say whats being played.

      Selling 1000,- of € worth of minis is not really a great idea or easy to do.
      1 reason for that being that GW just made all troops a unattractive choice to buy. Just like 6th made tanks dreads and some CC units a Bad sell! Try selling stuff that sucks in game!


      Instead of going on, about my complaints. How about you tell me whats going to be so great about 7th?
      Only positiv thing is cheap units from Starter.
      The rest is just sales oriented and trying to f... Tournaments and non waac gamers.

      Delete
    18. Well im sure looking forward to the return of the Psychic Phase, the Warp is kind of a big thing in 40k and it's nice to see it heavily featured again. Ill not make comment on much else as we don't really know a great deal yet.

      And if you are really so bummed out about 7th just stop now. play what you have and stop there. Hell i still play 2nd regularly. You dont HAVE to play the new edition. Aside from official venues and stuff.

      Delete
    19. Al :D

      Seb you have a really wierd point of view. Firstly:

      "A luxury good is an item that is not necessary for a basic standard of life or is very expensive."

      Pretty much the exact definition of Warhammer. It has nothing to do with resale value.

      Warhammer games are a framework, you don't have to follow all the rules or even play the most recent version if your group agrees. My mate Al here has been playing 2nd edition games recently and thoroughly enjoying it. If you don't want to play 7th then don't, it's your choice and a compromise you make with other players. If you don't upgrade to the new rules you don't need a new codex either.

      What will be great about the new edition is exactly what's great about the current one and 5th before it - I get to have a laugh with my mates around a table of models.

      Delete
  7. 300+ guardsmen in a list, oh wait you can do that anyway

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  8. 50 crisis suits, all with just a single weapon.

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  9. 27 war walkers.
    8 wraithknights
    12 wraithlords.

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  10. 18 Company command squads with master of ordinances in 1500 points. that 18 S9 AP3 pie plates a turn.

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    Replies
    1. Or a whole bunch of company commands with a lascannon team each giving out ignores cover order to themselves lol

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  11. Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf and 4 squad of 5 Thunderwolf Cavalry all with Storm Sheilds and one Thunder Hammer in each squad. 2000pts the Kights of Fenris!

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    1. I am absolutely positive my buddy is going to run this.

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    2. And why not lol. Cry havoc! And let slip the wolves of war!

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    3. honestly that'd be an amusingly list at least

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    4. Just go all Lord.
      I was thinking of warboss on bike with PC AS CB times what ever points allow. All in a unit make T6 bikers with 4+ Cover 5++ and a lot of wounds. And you can even add in a fnp doc. Via boss squad. Once you turboboosted across the board you just split the bosses in how many singel units you need to tigh up everything!!! :D
      Down side is others will do Flyer spam or knights wich give you hard times.

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    5. I like the idea of one Wolf Lord leading a mighty charge of Thunderwolf Cavalry in the All-fathers name his sword held high and his brother howling in fury at the enemy.

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  12. Replies
    1. Leaks seem to imply that hq remains the same. Other choices are free fror all if you wish.

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  13. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  14. So.... with unbound army I dont need troop to score?

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    1. As long as you have a rule that says "this unit is scoring" or "this model is a scoring model" (like dem necrons) then no you wouldn't need a troop choice. But if you don't have a special rule like that you'll most likely still need a troop or 2.

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  15. So.... with unbound army I dont need troop to score?

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  16. So...

    Sabre Defence Platform Army?

    Twin linked lascannons with skyfire/interceptor

    Toughness 7, wounds 2 and 3+ save.

    50pts.

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    Replies
    1. Lol yes. Just get 20+ of those!! Hahahahahahahahah!!!!

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    2. I wish I had the money ;)

      I'm just number crunching. These new rules are quite scary at first glance. I bet there will be some might restrictions in the background though! New missions will likely go a long way to ensuring the use of troops too :).

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    3. Sabre platforms are troops...

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    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. Misunderstood what you meant.

      That is a good point haha. Can't move though :(

      Delete
  17. 50 arcoflaggelants.
    50 servitors
    2 or do xenos inquisitors with deamon swords and condemnor boltguns
    A single servo skull

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    1. Oh my God, an Inquisitorial Conclave! Nothing but Inquisitors as an army...that sounds so amazing.

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    2. I was thinking of that... think about the psychic phase!

      WE HAVE ALL TE PSYCHIC POWERS!
      FOR THE EMPEROR!

      Delete
  18. Typhus and 350 zombies (10 units of 35)

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    Replies
    1. My thoughts exactly but in minimum 10 man squads instead!

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    2. No, the list AB posted is fluffy. 35 is divisible by 7, which is Nurgles sacred number.

      Delete
  19. Ork Mek's Mob with kans, dreds, bikes, koptas, buggies, and a Stompa.

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  20. 10 Space Marine Chapter Masters on Bikes

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  21. An army of knights led by every primarch! Whee!

    Naw, seriously, I hope it's false. Otherwise this is GW throwing up its hands and saying "who cares! Buy models!"

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    Replies
    1. They've been doing that for awhile now with their rushed releases.

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    2. It's as good as confirmed with the pictures of the relevant text from White Dwarf. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Hopefully this bound/unbound madness will be for friendly games, with full FOC and the Altar of War missions used for tournaments. That could keep both casual and tourney players happy.

      The objective cards remind me of the random scenarios from WD where both players roll for a primary and secondary objective. Changing objectives sounds like Killzone 2 / Killzone 3 multiplayer. I see the video game influence is finally making an impact. I thought the Helghast look of the Tempestus Scions was a bit suspicious... :-P

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    3. Next they'll start calling objectives "save points" and institute an ammo system for all weapons, that you can top up with random "drops".

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  22. This lets potentially let's people play the army they want with models they want to collect.

    My guess is that you will still need troops and in an objective based game; if an opponent brings 7 riptides they won't be able to score and win.

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    1. Unless they can pie-plate their enemy off the other objectives.
      But yes, in normal Eternal War missions you are a bit lost without scoring units. Have to hope for the right mission I guess :P

      Delete
    2. As a concept, I like it. I like the idea of being able to take what I want, instead of *having* to take certain things because they are the only things that are effective. Now, if GW could just balance Codices within themselves, I'd be a happy camper. Having crap like Mutilators and Warp Talons be useless doesn't really promote the 'take what you think is cool' ideal, even for casual players.

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    3. Mutilators aren't useless. I will occasionally deep strike a few solo muti's to force my opponent to have to choose between targets. A few muti's rambling around your backfield can't be ignored.

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    4. I've tried using them in Land Raiders, I've tried using them the way you're suggesting, they really just get blown to bits by my opponent as an afterthought, less an 'Oh crap, look at that scary thing'. The difficulty is having to sit there for a turn after deep strike. Anything that does nothing for a whole turn is wasting time and points.

      Delete
    5. Hopefully it works similar to apoc objective games where you get points every turn. That way even if you do get tabled you could still win since you collected more points.

      Delete
    6. But you're still need to have some sort of "scoring unit" to collect those points, even if it's something different every turn. And if it is something different every turn (and it sounds like it could be), then it behooves you to take a variety of different "battlefield roles" in your list in order to cover your bases. Lists that are all of one thing aren't going to accomplish much in the way of scoring objectives, at least not all the time, even if they are capable of eventually tabling you...

      Delete
  23. I've been thinking about it before I commented and I really don't think it will be all that bad, I'm just a casual gamer so I'm quite bias, it opens up games to allow some fun different scenario and campaign ideas. Although like any edition certain rules are going to be abused in the competitive scene but that's surely the nature of competition using and doing what ever it takes to win so we can't blame GW for trying to make the game more interactive and fun.

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  24. The best part of the pre-release info is the psychic phase. No more getting butthurt by divination with ZERO chance to stop it.

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  25. This casual gamer is quite satisfied that with the latest rumor (and especially with the fact that it came with photographic evidence) and would much prefer a more permissive ruleset than a more restrictive one. Fortunately, we have a close-knit and growing gaming group that is more interested in everyone enjoying themselves than in destroying each other.

    Unless the bonuses for playing a Battle-forged army are pretty good, I think our group will usually play according to the FOC. Every once in a while we might decide to have some fun and play Unbound vs. Unbound, Unbound vs. Battle-forged, or Unbound vs. Battle-forged + Super-heavy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually, it's the Battle-forged army that gets the bonus(es) for using the FOC...

      Delete
    2. I agree. For those of us who play with groups it is quite good. It seems that pick up games are mostly a US thing.

      Delete
    3. Could be, but I've got a regular group that hangs out at the FLGS that I do. Depends on what you consider a "pick up"; I pretty much know everyone with whom I'm likely to get a casual, ad hoc game with, and what they play. Very few real surprises stroll into the shop on a regular basis, so even tho it may not be as "organized" of a group as what you have in, say, the UK, we still generally know pretty much everyone in our geo. We refer to it as "the local gaming community", which broadens things out a bit more than a "regular group", but there's still a good deal of familiarity...

      Delete
  26. Flying Hive Tyrants everywhere MUWAHAHAHAHAHA

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ...And then you score zero points and lose the game...

      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!...

      8^P

      Delete
  27. So, onto the ~other~ topic of this post: Valhalla!

    3.5 hours South of SLC, you say? Would that be somewhere around Cedar City, UT? Can you please post the name of the town you're in, or nearest town, Natfka, in a different post, about Valhalla? Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  29. I'm really not that bothered about unbound lists. I expect that almost the entire community will just ignore it completely and stick with the FOC with the exceptions of some fun or thematic games organised between friends.

    It'll have the same impact on tournaments and pick-up games as the Revenant Titan did because in order to use an unbound list you need an opponent that wants to fight against it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Literally every single person I have spoken to about this says they will likely (or definitely) stay away from "unbound" games. In GW's attempt to sell more Riptides and Heldrakes, they are forcing the community to adjust and take more responsibilityfor the rules we choose to play by. Just because GW prioritizes a quick buck over the integrity of the game, doesn't mean we have to abide by those mistakes.

      Delete
    2. Wow, that's a really negative way of looking at it.

      I think GW is thinking more along the lines of "How can we make ~everybody~ happy?", Rather than "How can we ~make~ people buy more of the expensive models?" Because they can't ~make~ us buy anything; ultimately, we choose what we want to buy, build, convert, paint and run in our games, and from the sounds of things, now we'll have even more ability to choose without the hassles of being restricted artificially.

      Having said that, I'm personally more inclined to run what I think Battle-forged lists will be, but that's because I like variety, and I know that very few things are good at doing everything well enough to win me the game...

      Delete
  30. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  31. Tournaments will still use the foc chart with whatever restrictions they see fit and casual gamers have a choice of more balanced and restricted games with unknown bonuses for doing so or the freedom to enjoy no holds barred battles it would seem.

    More choice sounds like a good thing to me, though maybe I'm just too reasonable a guy for GW related articles and forums which seem to be populated with doomsayers and reactionaries of the worst order.

    It's a game people, play it and enjoy it or leave it to those that do.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. +1 with a re-roll, Ben!

      Key phrase here being "...and enjoy it". If it doesn't make you happy, why are y'all (the doomsayers and reactionaries, as Ben put it) spending your disposable income and valuable free time doing it, and worrying about it. Life is too short to spend your free time doing something that makes you feel bad (unless you're an absolute masochist...).

      Delete
  32. If GW is stupid and making bad choices, how is it a money grab? How is it selling more models if it's a ruined rules system?

    First of all, these are rumors. Second, READ THEM if you are going to make decisions about them. There will be penalties for unbound lists, and bonuses for codex lists.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. your deliberately misunderstanding that statement.

      People are saying that so little effort has gone into this that it can only be an attempt and boosting revenue before the end of year financials.

      They are then predicting that said attempt will backfire due to a jaded community

      time will tell

      Delete
    2. I'm not so sure about the backfiring. I mean, I agree the community is jaded but that doesn't ever seem to stop them shelling out money for the things they object to in the name of winning.

      It sends a mixed message and the message is that there is no point trying to satisfy the community because it is impossible and there's no immediate financial advantage because just about anything can and will sell.

      Delete
    3. Except Sisters of Battle, plastic Sisters would never sell. /sarcasm

      Delete
    4. daboarder, how can you claim to know that "so little time/effort has been put into this ", when we haven't even seen "it" yet? That's really a stretching comment, and indicative of everything that's wrong about these knee-jerk reactions to anything (~anything~) and everything that GW does. No one actually knows how much time GW has spent working on this, unless they work for GW.

      And I wouldn't label the entire community as "jaded". Certainly there are a number of very outspoken jaded individuals, but given the many thousands of people who play 40K and the arguably handful of consistent naysayers who always say the same thing, I don't think you can label the entire "community" in any way based on anything that goes on in an Internet forum or comment section such as this. To assume you know otherwise is hubris...

      Delete
    5. Porbably because unless they started before 6 theyve had only 12-18 months to work on this. ...and thats a generous estimate

      Delete
  33. so a 60euro rulebook we didn't quite get 2 years use out of and a new system that allows unrestricted cheese? I much preferred the idea of sideboards...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There might still be sideboards... We just don't know the whole picture yet... 8^D

      Delete
  34. So nids get boned again games workshop can go f**k them selfs

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cool so everyonr can summon two kinds of demons.... EXCEPT TYRANIDS. Why can we NoT summon daemons?? Its like a new toy but we can't play with them

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    2. Fluff reason? Tyranid psychers don't use the warp persay. Daemons are the "denizens" of the warp.

      Delete
    3. But don't worry - Tyranids will still get to roll for Perils of the Warp....

      Delete
    4. How do Tyranids "get boned"? We don't know very much about what's coming yet, do we? A little premature to assume Nids have been shafted over anything...

      And if you know your Tyranids fluff, you'd know that the Hive Mind casts a shadow on the Warp, so why would Tyranids summon daemons to do their bidding, if that's what you mean by "getting boned". For all you know, Daemonology (or some counterpart to it) will give Tyranids a bonus vs Daemons.

      We. Just. Don't. Know.

      But, hey, if you just want to spend your time being angry all the time, join the military or WWF where you can take your anger out on something on a regular basis and make a living from it. Otherwise, it's pointless to curse at GW before you know more than the contents of less than a page from a magazine about the upcoming new "revised" rules...

      Delete
  35. I hope daemonology is the CSM answer to everyone else getting divination. I am tired of at least Tzeentch not being able to predict the future!!! Its his thing god dammit!

    *takes a breather*...

    If CSM sorcerers can (safely) summon daemons (especially scoring units like the portalglyph does), that could be a game changer. I would summon stuff all day just to assault and tie up a power unit for a turn, while the rest of my army would complete the mission objectives.

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    Replies
    1. Oh don't worry I'm sure loyalists will be able to summon daemons for some reason.

      Delete
    2. It sounds like they can, but are at risk of something nasty happening.

      Maybe something like "Your opponent controls the unit of daemons you just summoned and now also controls your psyker. If the psyker is part of a brotherhood, reduce the brotherhood to one model and your opponent now controls that model."

      Or perhaps something a bit easier to resolve "All units within 12" of the psyker (including any unit the psyker is in) take d6 S5 AP3 hits, distributed with the psyker as the origin for vehicle facing and wound allocation, and the psyker is removed as a casualty.

      Delete
  36. In other news if gamer girl is at the next Valhalla, I'm definitely going, even if I have to cross half the globe

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's Wargamer Girl, and her name is Miranda, and she's an awesome person, so make sure your passport is up to date... 8^D

      Delete
  37. I wish I'd signed up for Valhalla. Sounds like it'd be a great vacation...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is! I went last October, and it was the best time I'd had in years!!! Going again this coming October...
      :-)

      Delete
  38. New psychic table for everyone... except Tyranids. Of course except for Tyranids. Why would they get more powers. Don't get me wrong, I've come to enjoy the Codex powers, but I just found the text in WD kind of funny.

    Poor Tyranids, all they want is love. They're just so misunderstood.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Probably because the new psychic discipline is all about summoning daemons and controlling the warp, not exactly something Tyranids would be doing.

      Delete
    2. Then where's biomancy??? The apex of evolution tyranids continue to evole yet cannot take biological powers. Because toughness 9 eternal warrior swarmlords.

      Btw why is swarmlord not eternal warrior but yarrick is??? Being instagibbed by a bloodthirster is just not cool.

      Delete
    3. For the same reason Straken is mostly made of metal:

      Humans are cooler, more stubborn, and more tenacious than any super space alien can ever hope to be. Mankind refuses to quit or back down even against impossible odds. The Imperium holds the line against all manner of nightmares with little more than a gun and the will to stare death in the face and spit in its eye socket!

      Delete
  39. AND A PARTRIDGE AND A PAIR TREEEEEE.

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  40. The balance of the new Missions will be very important. If they did a good job with the missions, unbound might not break the game. Since a spamm army wont be able to score the mission objectives.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That doesnt even matter.

      Its not fun playing against Spam golor list.
      Who cares if you win or lose if the game was a boaring and you had no fun, but Arguments with you opponent instead?

      Delete
    2. So, what you're saying, seb, is that all of your games are boring, and you spend the whole of every game arguing with your opponent?

      Boy, must be fun...

      I recommend you drop 40K and take up a new game. I just finished reading the rules for Drop Zone Commander a few weeks ago, and it looks great! Give that a try...

      Delete
    3. I rather revert to staction or ori figs or model Tanks and plains. Cant bother finding players for a new game.

      Delete
  41. What balance in a missions? They are random card draw. You might call balance 1 in a 36 chance ).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have multiple mission cards and can complete them or change them during the game. There is definitely the possibility of a good system there. GW just has to implement it right (or we wait for some people to write an alternative and better set). The dynamic mission scoring is the best news in the whole article.

      Delete
    2. Because you might need different unit types to complete missions? So you can't 9 Riptides yourself to the win?

      It's crazy how people only think about the worst. Maybe, just maybe we wait and see. Judge after knowing the whole picture.

      Stop running in circles, flapping your arms while screaming the apocalypse...

      Delete
    3. But if they didn't ring in circles flapping their arms and screaming at the top of their lungs, they wouldn't get ~any~ exercise!

      LOL!

      8^P

      Delete
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    ReplyDelete