Another upcoming debate is going to be about the weapon of the Imperium... The Grav Weapon. Now I know the weapon has been around for quite some time, mostly through Forgeworld, and we have do not have the codex yet to actually see this weapon in use.

Lets take a look at what Ive seen about Grav Weapons.


Information Based off the Battle Report.

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Grav-weapons are powerful. They roll to Wound against target's armor save. And amps are giving them re-rolls. I don't know if they have AP value, but in the report 3 Centurions are wiping out power-armored squad a turn.

79 Comments:

  1. Seems like a good selling point for the new Centurions, the ability to easily wipe out all the tactical squads people already own.

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  2. Sounds like they will destroy my terminators but do almost nothing to my cultists.

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    1. Even more so, what about my spawn? They have no armour save.

      I wonder if this weapon is why daemons have a 6+ armour save while having a 5+ inv save.

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    2. Auto wound or T1 for no armor save?

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    3. @TheAurgeimir No it would be the reverse since the worse your armor save the better chance you have against a grav weapon. I'm guessing it would treat no armor save as a 6+ save, orrr treat it like toughness 7? Who knows.

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    4. Yeah sorry, thats sort of what I ment... my brain just said "nope" :P

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    5. but I'm pretty sure they will mount other weapons, like Hurricane Bolters? those are good against spawn

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    6. I'm not complaining - I need all the bonuses I can get if I want to have a chance against my friend's Grey Knights. Seriously, he runs some horribly powerful lists which stay strong regardless of what gets killed.

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  3. Yeah I don't understand them OPness yet coz they are (effectively) high strenght against good saves and low strength against bad saves. So thats fine but it must come down to the AP/number of shots, as presumably against terminators it's fine wounding them on 2s (like a lascannon) but probably not penetrating their armour (unlike a lascannon).

    GIVE ME A REASON to take grav weapons my meta is Orks, help me get rid of Meganobs....

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    1. Based on the rumor that 3 Centurions are wiping entire Tac Squads leads me to believe they have either insane rate of fire, or good AP, or a mix of both. Again, if the rumor is true.

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    2. Sounds like metal magics in WHFB, and they just ignore armor, cause they're just wounding your men with their armor.

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  4. How do they affect kroot? Armour save of - means toughness 0 or toughness 10?

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  5. Oh good, we definitely needed to make MEQ and terminators weaker in plasma-spam edition. We absolutely needed to make blob squads and kroot stronger, heaven knows nobody was taking them.

    I mean, seriously? We need a gun that eviscerates hordes in cover, not yet more things to kill marines. I just don't understand the logic here.

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    1. Yeah, power armour has pretty much been nerfed to the level of uselessness in 6th ed. I still always take two tac squads in every list but their staying power has been badly hurt.

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    2. Kroot are ridiculously good. If you're not using them with sniper rounds you're doing it wrong.

      But otherwise, I agree. MEQ focused armies are deader than dead. Termiewings are practically non-existent. The competitive meta has taken a huge turn.

      Honestly, I want to see something in the Codex that can blast the crap out of a Riptide at range and/or reliably tie it up and kill it in CC.

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    3. It was sarcasm Sharpie, Kroot and blob squads make up a huge amount of armies ATM. I mean, I get that grav is super good at killing MCs which is needed, but at what cost? Terminators need a huge buff, especially assault ones. As in, even at 30 points I'd seriously debate whether that was low enough. Heck, I'd probably only be tempted at 20 - there's just no point when MEQ are ~14 points currently and plasma kills them almost as easily as it kills you, plus they get better options. I just find the whole situation odd. Then again, I still dislike the "only troops score" thing, still seems ridiculous all these years later that Calgar stood on an objective somehow doesn't count, but 1 scout does.

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    4. If the weapon is so redundant no one will take it and nothing will change. The difference between the grav gun and a plasma gun is that the latter can kill terminators and marines, but it also can slay guardsmen and Orks with ease. Unless the gun is like a 5 point upgrade or something like rapid fire, small blast I can't see how it would be better than a plasma gun.

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  6. It seems really odd that they wouldn't work the same way the ones in HH, or on the Contemptor Dreadnought do. Those don't roll to wound, they cause the target to take a Strength test to see if a wound is inflicted. Apparently in 10k years the function of the same type of weapon changed completely?

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  7. Yea, because they don't seem to do much (as it seems so far) to troops with bad armour saves, this is merely a utility weapon. Works against strong units well, but terrible against hoards with low armour.

    Therefore, to answer the title of this article, with the info we know, they do not appear to be too powerful. In fact, I can argue I'd rather have a plasma gun as it will kill everything the same, while the grav gun loses effectiveness against hoard type armies.

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  8. More information required. Eliminating entire squads of marines a turn is pretty par for the course for each new army these days. Heldrakes, broadsides, kroot mobs w/ ethereal buffs, wave serpents, blah blu blah blu blah ....

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  9. Honestly, these weapons are no more godmodding cheese than the ubiquitous 3+ Invulnerable Save (which is arguably cheesier). It just means they're going to crush elite units like Terminators and Wraithguard, but they'd be laughable against anything else (like, heaven forbid a vehicle or swarm of infantry come their way). Lots of armies have good methods to counter them (read: lightly armoured infantry in large groups, something even the Eldar can do).

    I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill. We haven't even seen the Points Cost for these yet (and I'm willing to lean towards the pricy end of the scale).

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    1. 280 points for 3 with amps

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    2. that's pretty good points wise all things considered.

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    3. That's still rather pricy - the same points cost is a Land Raider with a few tricked out items from the Wargear Section, if not more.

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  10. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  11. What are the amps that are giving rerolls?

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  12. I don't get the whole "amps are giving them re-rolls" bit. Is that some an acronym for something or a typo?

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    Replies
    1. Grav - amp. Additional wargear You can Buy out for squad. It gives reroll to grav based weapon.

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  13. So is the concept that they cause units own armor to crush them? Heavier termies =more weight = more likely damaged. Un armored = minimal weight =less damage? If so, a heavy grav would implode tanks?

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  14. It's also worth noting that the above description is not how graviton weapons work in the FW Horus Heresy book.

    There, they are a str test on d6, roll under your str or take a wound, have haywire, and concussion, if memory serves.

    The reverse armor save is an entirely different mechanic.

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    Replies
    1. They're also blast weapons, that leave the template behind until your next shooting phase, the template counting as difficult and dangerous terrain.

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  15. Well fuck the deathwing then, i guess.

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    1. these are presumably gonna be special weapons so 1 or two to a squad. just get some scout snipers set up to take those guys down fast.

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    2. Already happened. DA are getting worse with each codex releae.

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  16. Well I hope everyone enjoyed their 115$+ wraith knight for the last 2 months. Cause now your t10 means frack all when its wounded on 3+ with (most likely) no AS.

    Can't have gws favorite pet army not having an answer to everything now....

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    1. ...Wraithknight is toughness 8. But I do hear what your saying X3

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    2. 3 models wounding my wraithknight on 3+ is significantly less worrisome then 10 guants backed by a tervigon giving them poison or a squad of deathmarks or any dark eldar army.

      These are just glorified overpriced poison weapons not game changers.

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  17. I'll wait to pass judgement until the codex is actually here and we have point costs etc.

    But if it's true the worst part would be that you would have to buy the Centurion models.
    Normally I like GW's stuff very much, but their huge clunky feet are just killing it for me.
    Well, there is always the option to convert something of your own. ;)

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  18. In the report BT(SM) player is using quite costy 3-man Centurion Squad armed with missile launchers and Grav-Cannons.
    During the battle he wiped out:
    - entire Plague Marines Squad (7 marines)
    - 5 Chaos Space Marines
    - unit of 5 MoN-Terminators.

    So it looks armor saves are not allowed.

    Grav-cannons on Centurions have things called grav-amp, which is giving them To Wound re-rolls.

    I think "grav-" weapons are different things form HH graviton weapons.

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    1. Sure glad that I haven't spend money on my Chaos Space Marines since 6th edition... And up in the attic, they go!

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    2. I think you're jumping the gun. We don't even know what a unit like that would cost.(" using quite costy 3-man Centurion Squad")


      Also killing all of the above during an entire battle doesn't seem all that much to me.
      A Heldrake for example can also kill a lot of Marines through an entire battle.

      Also that says nothing about their durability and how easy it would be to kill them with something like Oblits etc.

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  19. Epiphany!
    CONVERT ALL YOUR NOW-USELESS TERMIES INTO CENTURIONS!!

    end sarcasm. go swarm-a-hoard with some hidden melta/plasma and shove those big ass drills up GWs killa-centu-kanz asses.

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    1. I was thinking of converting the Centurions into Ork Meganobz. Only thing I see these ugly bastards to be useful for.

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  20. Funny thought to complement my hopes commented after in Black Templar article:
    Templar initiates behind neophytes (low armor) melting/plasma the hell out of centurions. :-D

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  21. 1. We know nothing until we've played a good 30 games against varied competition to make a real judgment. Everyone else will complain because that's what they do.

    2. If the rumors are accurate, then these guns will suck against 4/5 of the armies making runs at tournaments right now.

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    1. Yeah, all it does is make it easy to kill termies. Termies aren't making or breaking my games these days, lol.

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  22. Hope to god it was only a 5 man squad and/or someone botched the rolls. If they're that OP I won't take them I don't wanna be THAT GUY, the one with 3 hell-drakes.

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  23. Yes, let's discuss the overpowered'ness of something that we do not know the rules off!
    What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

    And don't bring me that battle-report crap please.
    I have read the last WD and by now I understand how those battle-report works.
    "Hello Team, please fight a battle where you let unit X kick ass so we can sell them.. kkthnxbb xx - the management."

    That Apocalypse-game was a joke, it's almost as if they were trying to play as bad as possible.

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    1. I'm with Tim, Battle Reports should not be the measuring stick. 90% of the time, it is GW plugging the new shiny stuff.

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    2. Like with those new fortifications!
      "Look how awesome they are and how much they own."
      Yes, they are quite awesome if we ignore the fact that team-def had almost twice the points as team-atk.

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    3. Heh, +1, x3, whatever. I remember reading the SoB WD Crapdex Battle Report.

      A. Not a great opposing list.
      B. The Sisters get to use the AV14 fortification with built in heavy weapons.
      C. They still almost lost.

      So, see, the Crapdex is good!

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  24. Well grav weaps is pretty OP. I myself play death guard.. and I can only see 1 way to counter it and it´s a fearless zombie wall of 35 zombies (Thanks to Typhus....) givin cover to termies, oblis and the plague marines.

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    1. Why do you want to bother slowing down your terminators and oblits when they have 5++

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    2. depending on their armor saves you could also just roast em with a helldrake. we dunno how durable these guys will be, although my gut feeling is 2+ armor saves

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    3. Daboarder: I mean using the Zombies for line off sight guiding the termies where the centurions can´t see em, which can take some times but the termies will do thier jobb + the zombies will stall any approaching threat 35 wounds is pretty much to hack your way through.. anyhow.. 5++ is nothing tbh. T 5 termies is useless vs grav weaps, only way is to reroll tzeentch for a more durable 4++ only then can the termies be in the forefront again.(nope I wont put a mark of tzeench in a DG army.) (and yepp I´m not deep striking em since they always seems to scatter into enemy models/terrain. I think my termies have survived 2 times when deep striking.) :D

      Brian: well I got that feeling too 2+ armor save. so the HD's will be pretty useless vs these guys. Well well I guess we all have to w8 until the release ;)

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  25. I agree with all the people who think this topic may be a bit premature. without range rate of fire, AP, or special rules like blast etc. it is really hard to determine. I mean if they are 12" Heavy 1, even at AP1, I would rather the enemy use that than have a laser cannon. If they are 36" Heavy 1 blast Ap2, I am much more scared, and if they are like 60" Heavy 1 large blast AP2, pinning, ignore cover, then damn that would be crazy. There are a lot of missing variables. Also, points is a big factor. If they are like a 50 pt upgrade on a 70 point model, so 3 would be like 350 points, they will be less powerful regardless of what they do then if they were a 5 point upgrade on a 30 point model.

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  26. I remember a rumor that tac squads could get grav guns, and pistols, and that sternguard could get combi grav weapons, so with that much grav it could get annoying

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  27. I am both amused and saddened by the people around the internet crying foul, saying MEQ armies are dead and terminators are useless. They may not be the gods of war they once were (if they ever were, I for one am not convinced), but that simply means adaptation must occur.

    More on topic, this entire posting is ridiculous as many have already pointed out. The information we currently have is so terribly limited that any kind of judgement is simply stupid. They are an interesting weapon to breathe life into an army that needed something new and nothing more until the exact rules are known.

    That being said, the Centurions are horrible in the pictures. I can only pray to whatever gods you choose that they are better in person.

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  28. Gotta love this 5+ Guardsmen flakk :D

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    1. rememebr the guys with those grav weapons are also shooting you with S4 AP5 boltguns

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  29. HEY NAFKA! The Vanguard box art has leaked:

    http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t567/jonatan_aas/IMG_0028_zpsdd859be2.jpg

    http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t567/jonatan_aas/IMG_0029_zps22128ee2.jpg

    Also, half way down this page:

    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1200/543907.page#top

    Is pictures of them assembled by someone.

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  30. A weapon isn't entirely overpowered if it only works amazingly against a few armies.

    Look at fantasy, Lore of Metal absolutely destroys armies like Warriors of Chaos and knight heavy Bretonnia (Spoiler: you should be knight heavy bretonnia). Against anything else with a really bad armor save? Not so much.

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  31. Just in case you haven't seen Vanguard Veterans are up on Dakka.
    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1200/543907.page

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  32. This is awesome. All of a sudden it will not just be pa army vs pa army.

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  33. WD batrep games are retuinely played out multiple times with some cheating to "showcase" the miniatures in action. Not jumping on the hate wagon until I see the codex.

    Hmm. I'm gonna look at the old DA batrep and see what the Nephilim did...

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  34. sounds like some Lore of Metal in them guns

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  35. unless they ignore cover or have hiigh rate of fire i think they are not op. anyway, battles on ww are always staged. i remember a battle report. in which the sanguinor performed admirably smashing units every turn when codex ba came out !!

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  36. While I am one of those that say that the game does not need any more weapons against termis, lets wait until the codex hits. "Wiping out squads of unit x" can also be contributed to WD Battle Report showcasing and/or dice rolls.
    That said, I would not be surprised if SM get a huge boost in power, they sell so much afterall. A evil plan to get most of the xenos codexes out early and then release nearly all SM variants with the biggest powerlevel possible for 6th ;)

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  37. If kitted out Centurions clock in just below 100 points a piece, I doubt they will be overpowered.

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  38. There is no way these grab guys have better saves then stock terminators unless thier grav gun has a built in storm shield. My suicide squad of fire dragons will 1 shot them the same as it does to most 200+ point units. Gimmick troops are always crap unless you build your army around them in which case u have a gaping hole somewhere else. In this case likely against horde.

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  39. My gaming group has started putting mutually agreed embargoes on shit like this. We are into the lore, but we do play competitively. However we refuse to let our desire to win play into the hand of GW who pilfers and retcons the fluff in order to drive customers into an expensive arms race. In essence we are just going to pretend these ugly little toys don't exist.

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  40. You all are gonna hate me but the models are sweet. I'm tired of paper power armor. I can't wait to use them against my friends Wolves.

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