The Words of Faeit is a weekly post, dedicated to my thoughts on the strategy and tactical side of the game. They are not to be written in stone as "No plan of operations extends with certainty beyond the first encounter with the enemy's main strength" (or "no plan survives contact with the enemy"). Quoted from Helmuth von Moltke.
I have been using them in the configuration above for the most part. I have tried moving my heavy support psyriflemen to become venerable, but it just seems like overkill.
Here is how I have been using the Grey Knight Venerable Dreadnought.
Assault cannons with psybolt ammunition and sometimes with a heavy flamer. This way they are equal to a psycannon, and hit on 2+ with the Venerables BS5. I have been using them successfully to walk upfield firing as they go, and giving my purifiers a protective anti-psyker defense with Reinforced Aegis. Doing this, they often times get into close combat late game, usually round 4 or 5. Because they are amongst my purifiers they have generally been a low target priority for my opponents, which greatly has added to the venerables survivability.
The big question is... is he worth it. He is sitting right around 190-205pts. The last 3-4 games, I have fielded one ven. dread, and it has taken out a full unit in melee in the last two rounds of play. Shooting wise, some damage was done. However, with a full array of psyriflemen in the backfield though, the venerable dread loses some of his punch.
So what it comes down to, is what else could fill the 200 pts the dread is taking. After all, a little bit of cutting here and there, another full unit of purifiers could jump in.
I am on the fence with the Venerable Dreadnought. One one hand, with a cover save and fortitude, this dreadnought is nearly indestructible. Since I have a hard time getting rid of my venerables in my lists, I figured I would try to hear other peoples opinion and experience with them.
I love em. I fielded two ven. dreads in ard boyz this year and when to finals. In all my 9 games they only died in maybe 2.
ReplyDeleteI have yet to give it a try, but with dual Twin-Linked Autocannons and Psybolt ammo, they have a pretty fair chance at knocking out a transport. I also know several DE players around here consider moving flat-out on turn one and then shooting turn 2+ to be an awesome plan (one I expect Necrons to start using as soon as the local Necron player can afford a few Ghost Arks), and you have a really good chance to blow them up for it even through the cover save.
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly, this is all just probability, and I've been having trouble convincing myself they are worth it past the first couple rounds (hence the lack of trying), but it does intrigue me.
I've been using now 2-3 Ven Dreads with Autocannons now for the last 6 months, only dropping the 3rd for gimmicky stuff like a Tech Marine, Vindicare, or Purifiers.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people prefer Purifiers over a Ven Dread, but I'll be honest, those Ven Dreads are game winners. They do so much more than just shoot. :) Granted, they aren't very good in combat, but they can time up units FOREVER!
Every once in a while I'll lose one to a lucky melta shot here or there, but in all honesty, I've had Ven Dreads stand up to multiple melta shots, even at close range, and still dish it out. Fortitude + Venerable is really just gross.
They are also very, very scary with a multi-melta w/ fist in a Storm Raven.
Besides tying units up in combat, which is super useful in most GK lists because then you can counter hard with DCA or Purifiers, they also work even better because in a dual between Normal Dreads and Ven Dreads, which you know you are going to get into and often with GKs being all over the meta, Ven Dreads take home the bacon. :)
To be honest, unless you have a Stormraven to get the Ven Dread to the enemy, I'm not a huge fan. They certainly are tough, but they don't put out all that much firepower and they're kinda slow and clunky. Especially with Purifiers, Paladins, and similar units available (not to mention Interceptors, etc) I think it's really hard to justify his point cost.
ReplyDeleteTo speed up the Venerable Dreadnought I only have two suggestions:
ReplyDelete(1)Stormraven to transport the Ven, along with the Purifiers. That will get the Ven into combat quickly, with some supporting fire.
(2)A librarian teleporting onto the board, or being transported, can summon the Ven to his side when the time is right.
The problems with my suggestions:
(1)Points. Can you afford the stormraven or librarian?
(2)Boom! We have had the FAQ about Dreads being immobilized by exploding stormravens and dare you risk it?
(3)Splat! Like above except it is what do you do if your librarian gets killed before summoning the Ven?
I love the Venerable Dreadnought models. Would include them just to look at them. Their better WS and BS means I prefer them to regular Dreads, though that does come with a cost.
I'd give him plasma cannon: S7 AP2 blast at 36" or heavy bolter for the 36" range even if it has lower strength and 1 less shot. Assault cannons are good, but for walking up the board their 24" is a bit meh. Storm bolter with psybolts would help the range war.
Assault cannon, flamer and fist would be good if you transported the dread or summoned it.
As you know Natfka, I'm not a Grey Knight player but this is how my space marines would use the VenDread if they could. No stormraven or summoning, but a drop pod does come in handy.
I find that running one Venerable in my lists in the stormraven is invaluable. I run mine like you do yours, and people have been surprised at the pain it can dish out single-handedly. I don't think I'll ever get rid of him, as you say they have the potential to be game changers.
ReplyDelete